conversion to UK licences?

[azzie]

Is the licence conversion from a New Zealand ATPL to a UK licence easier than converting a New Zealand CPL to a UK licence.

Have heard of someone who went with a CPL and a few hours multi and spent nearly $50,000NZ converting her licences. If she had an ATPL, would it have been easier, and less expensive?

[inverted flatspin]

Here is what the CAA website says, it just mentions non JAA states. It seems to say that the proceedure is going to be the same no matter where you got your licence from. I just wish the JAA would hurry up and decide how it is going to be done.


Non-JAA Professional Pilot’s Licence Holders
A licence issued by a non-JAA State may be converted to a JAR-FCL licence provided that an arrangement exists between the JAA
Member State and the non-JAA State. This arrangement shall be established on the basis of reciprocity of licence acceptance and shall
ensure that an equivalent level of safety exists between the training and testing requirements of the JAA and non-JAA State.
Until such time as arrangements described above exist, applicants will be subject to transitional terms. The Joint Aviation Authorities
(JAA) have yet to agree the transitional terms for the conversion of a licence issued by a non-JAA State to a JAR-FCL CPL(A). Until
the transitional terms are agreed, applicants will be unable to convert a non-JAA licence to a JAR-FCL licence.
Any JAR-FCL licence issued on conversion of a non EC Member State’s licence, will contain a statement on the licence to that effect.
This is in order to comply with Article 6 of EC Directive 670/1991 effective from 1 June 1992. This statement will NOT be entered in
a JAR-FCL licence issued on conversion from an EC Member State's licence.

And here is the link to the website, lots of info here.

<A HREF="http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_information.asp?category=3" TARGET="_blank">http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/fcl/fcl_information.asp?category=3</A>

[This message has been edited by inverted flatspin (edited 12 December 2000).]

[BIK_116.80]

There is effectively no conversion from a foreign professional flight crew licence to a UK or JAR licence. You must do all 14 or 15 written examinations and two or three flight tests.

The general attitude of the UK CAA and of some UK pilots is that a professional flight crew licence issued by a country outside the UK is a "corn flakes packet ticket to terrorise the skies". There seems to be a pervasive "not made here, cant be any good then" attitude.

To obtain a UK or JAR professional licence will cost at least NZ$50,000.

The UK licence is not so much about the safety of flight, but more about protectionist employment policies.

Best of luck with it.

[watford]

azzie - You cannot now obtain a UK licence, only a JAA one.

The JAA are currently in discussion with the FAA about this very matter but don't hold your breath. Even if they can agree on reciprocity, the most optimistic target is 2 years before anything is in place. As far as I am aware negotiations are not in progress with any other non-JAA country.

Meanwhile there is no mechanism for conversion of non-JAA licences, you will have to take all ground exams as well as the CPL and IR Skill Tests. Previous experience may allow a reduction in training hours but no other benefit.

In the case of the holder of an ICAO ATPL with in excess of 500 hours experience in multi-crew operations, there is an exemption from the IR and CPL Skill Tests. However, all 14 ground exams must be passed as must the ATP(A) Skill Test which must be taken on an aircraft certified for multi-crew operations.
BIK_116.8 - The UK CAA have no discretion in this matter, the rules are laid down by the JAA where the UK is in a minority of one. Blame would be more appropriately laid at the door of the French DGAC who, supported by one or two other southern european authorities, are railroading through their own protectionist agenda. As to the attitude of 'some UK pilots', you get a proportion of dickheads in any profession.


[This message has been edited by watford (edited 12 December 2000).]

[BIK_116.80]

Actually the UK CAA is authorised to use a great deal of discretion in the way it conducts its day to day activities as the UK national aviation regulatory authority. It also exceeds its authorised discretion on a regular basis where it deems it needs to. This can either work in your favour, or to your detriment.

To illustrate the point about the CAA's organisational disdain for all qualifications foreign, there was never even a proposal to allow the painless conversion of flight crew licences to UK licences under UK national licencing arrangements. The procedure was to obtain a "licence validation" which would allow the holder of a foreign professional flight crew license to fly G registered aircraft using their foreign licence.

Unfortunately BALPA managed to lobby the CAA to put an effective end to that. It seems that BALPA - who are no doubt just representing the employment aspirations of their membership - would rather have a 200 hour wannabee BALPA member flying around in a B757 than a foreigner with command experience on type. In capitulating to BALPAs lobbying, I suggest that the UK CAA has in one sense become an instrument of protectionist employment policy rather than a regulator of aviation safety.

Under JAR the mutual and painless licence conversion issue is at least on the agenda. Unfortunately it is being used by the European politicians and their bureaucratic empire-builders (including those in the UK) as an aviation regulatory power play against the United States.

Air transport is a global industry - why is it still regulated under the well and truly outdated Chicago principles? Isn’t it time we moved on?

[tired]

Actually, unless the rules have changed in the last 2 months or so (quite possible with the CAA!) the old UK CAA conversion rules still apply if you have heavy jet command time. This means an ICAO ATPL holder who has more than 1500 hours in command on a heavy jet (I forget the actual weight limit, but it's effectively 737-size and upwards) and total time of 5000 hours or more, will only have to do Air Law and Human Factors and pass the initial IF flight test to be issued with a UK (not JAA)ATPL.

[PorcoRosso]

Tired
I know the things are pretty complex about conversion of froreign licence (non JAA)
I'm not sure what you say about this jet experience is true. When I was preparing my ATPL subjects at PPSC, there was an australian pilot in my course (ATPL), who was 15.000 Hrs experienced, most of them on a 737. He had to do the whole thing again, includng the "signals" (morse business) !!! I was 700 Hrs experienced at this time, holding a FAA CPL, and I was given credit of the "signals"
I guess only the CAA knows why.

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Flying is not dangerous, crashing is

[Managed Speed]

Tired.

As I understand it, the rules have changed from june or july this year. You can now no longer apply for a JAR ATPL this way.