falling asleep

[gas_man]

how big a problem is falling asleep in the flight deck? despite uncomfortable seats and movie channels, i soon pop to sleep in economy class. does this happen to flight crew? what strategies are used to overcome this ? i have heard that eicas gives warning if no cockpit activity hasn't occured for a while ...is this true?. .would locking up the flight deck door (security) isolate crew from cabin and promote more sleep ? any annonymous hairy stories. sorry for the large number of questionzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz !

[pulse1]

Gasman,. .. .Sorry to answer your questions with yet a further one. What is your secret? I'm facing three 10 - 12 hour economy flights ove the next week and I'm dreading it.

[Baggy]

No EICAS doesnt on the 75 anyway.. .. .yes you do get tired, especiallly on long night flights. Adrenaline usually helps dont forget - and if you agree between you a quick nap usually does the trick.

[gas_man]

is it legal for one crew member to sleep if both agree ? just curious .. .. .prasanna

[747FOCAL]

I have been told by a relative that he once commanded an inbound overseas flight to miami where all 3 people on the flight deck fell asleep. They were awakened by ATC inquiring as to why they had overflown their turn point by 30 minutes. As a passenger I would have no problems with one flight deck person grabbing a small nap. The alarms will wake you up anyway and airplanes just don't fall out of the sky. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Denti]

Gasman, you're a lucky one, i can't sleep even in business class (never tried first though). . .In the cockpit? Sometimes i'm very tired, but never fall to sleep there. Had a captain once who suddenly snored happily away on his raw-data manual descent into bcn, and that was just out of my first supervision, about 350 hours TT, 120 on boeing.

[E. MORSE]

Indeed a very intresting thread for our pax-members on PpruNe.... .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .. .Cheers anyway

[flapsforty]

gasman, you do not seem to be getting a lot of useful answers here, perhaps a touchy subject?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .I'm not a pilot but an FA, but I can tell you that one of the reasons teh FA's have to check the cockpit every 30 minutes is to make sure both pilots are awake.. .Something else is the so called "NASA-nap". Seem to remember that NASA once did some research which showed that pilot performance at the end of a long night flight could be considerably improved if the pilot concerned took a cat-nap in good time before the descent planning stage.. .. .In our mob this resulted in the rule that they can take a short nap, one at a time of course, provided the other pilot puts on his seatbelt, puts the radio on his headphones and sets the so called "egg timer".. .Hope this sheds some light! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Baggy]

If it is legal for one of a 2 man crew to leave to go to the loo, then wheres the problem with one getting a 10 min kip ?. .. .I believe it is one of those things that the CAA don't say you can do, but don't say that you can't.. .. .I never read newspapers either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[Baggy]

Denti,. .. .I think you'll find that the flight deck is a lot quieter than business class - being further in front. If you add a noise cancelling headset but turn the radios down, you won't be able to hear the engines, even at take off thrust ! . .. .I've never flown business class - (being the charter scum that i am ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ) - but i guess flight deck seats are more adjustable. Mines pretty comfy.

[spudskier]

Baggy, I can say with some confidence, having been repeatedly tested of regulations recently, that as far as the FAA is concerned one officer of a 2-man crew may leave the flight deck to use the facilities as long as the two officers agree.

[Jopa]

Gas_man,. .. .Regarding your question if it is legal for one crew member to sleep if both agree:. .. .Well, according to Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs):. .. ."720.23 Controlled Rest on the Flight Deck. .. .The standards for compliance with this section require that the air operator's program is outlined in the company operations manual and contains the following elements:. .. .(1) Training. .. .Every flight crew member who participates in the controlled rest on the flight deck program shall have received training in the program as well as training in the general principles of fatigue and fatigue countermeasures.. .. .(2) Pre-flight Activities. .. .(a) The pilot-in-command shall determine if operational considerations allow or preclude the use of controlled rest on the flight deck based on guidelines developed by the air operator;. .. .(b) the flight crew members' rest periods will be planned at a pre-flight briefing to enable them to anticipate and maximize the sleep opportunity and to manage their alertness. If required, this briefing can occur in flight; and. .. .(c) the briefing shall include: . .. .(i) the choice of rest sequence; . .. .(ii) planned and unplanned wake-up criteria; . .. .(iii) transfer of control procedures; and . .. .(iv) co-ordination with the flight attendants.. .. .(3) Pre-rest Period. .. .Pre-rest period activities should take approximately 5 minutes and shall include: . .. .(a) the transfer of duties; . .. .(b) an operational briefing; . .. .(c) completion of physiological needs; . .. .(d) co-ordination with the flight attendants; and . .. .(e) time for the flight crew member preparing to rest to become comfortable in the flight deck seat. . .(amended 1998/03/23; previous version). .. .(4) Rest Period. .. .(a) Only one flight crew member at a time shall rest and the other flight crew member(s) shall remain alert. An alertness monitor may be considered as a back-up system; . .(amended 1998/03/23; previous version). .. .(b) The resting flight crew member's duties shall be completed by the non-resting flight crew member(s); . .(amended 1998/03/23; previous version). .. .(c) All flight crew members shall remain on the flight deck throughout the rest period;. .. .(d) Each rest period shall be limited to a maximum of 45 minutes to avoid sleep inertia when the flight crew member is awakened;. .. .(e) Rest periods shall occur only during the cruise phase of the flight and shall be completed at least 30 minutes before planned top of descent, workload permitting; and. .. .(f) If required, more than one sleep opportunity may be taken by the flight crew members.. .. .(5) Post-rest Period. .. .(a) Unless required due to an abnormal or emergency situation, at least 15 minutes without any flight duties should be provided to the awakened flight crew member to allow sufficient time to become fully awake before resuming normal duties; and. .. .(b) an operational briefing shall be given to the awakened flight crew member.". .. .Several wise pilots, including myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> , have come to the conclusion that a nap of 30 min is by far more efficient than 5 hours of banging your head on the control wheel.. .. .Cheers,

[max_cont]

gas_man, yes you do get a wake up call from the B767-300 aircraft. From memory you get EICAS MSG Attention crew flashed up first, then if nothing happens you get the master caution beeps and for the grand finale you get the autopilot disconnect wail. That would wake the dead.. .. .I’m afraid it’s a required pastime out of Perth WA to see how many times we trigger the full Monty. You must remember it’s very hard for any pilot not to twiddle, switch on/off or play with any expensive toy gizmo or gadget. We even managed to get it to go off on a TFS sector. . .. .To achieve this you mustn’t touch the MCP or the FMC or the radio TX switch or tuning panel. It’s best sit on your hands, because the desire to touch something can be unbearable at times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />