Seniority System - the only way out ? any alternatives?

[shon7]

I have been studying the seniority system and talking to the pilots about it. Seems like it is an infinite regress argument and also a self - fulfiling prophecy. Since there is no real/concrete way to measure pilot performance - how would you construct a system on merit? . .. .This has been the argument I have most often heard. However, I would like to get suggestions on an alternative to the seniority system. Any comments?

[GlueBall]

In the USA crews are not "rostered," which is to say that management can't arbitrarily assign a pilot a trip sequence without first publishing all known flying. It's called a "bid" system, where crews, according to seniority (date of hire) are given an opportunity to choose where they wish to fly. There is no way to get around seniority in the USA. And why should there be? Why should a senior captain have to give up a cushy daytime Honolulu run in exchange for a junior captain's nightflight to polluted Mexico City? Just as in the military where rank has its priviliges, so does seniority have its priviliges in the airline business. All union contracts are necessarily based on seniority. There is no reasonable alternative that would be fair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[Hand Solo]

The counter argument is that seniority is reflected in incremental pay scales, and as one is paid more for being senior why should one also be able to dictate ones flying? Some very succesful airlines, notably VS and EK, use a system of rotating seniority for bidding so that nobody hogs the good trips. Why should a senior Captain be allowed to become lazy and do nothing but Honolulu trips whilst the junior pilot is required to constantly sharpen his skills contending with Mexican ATC?

[GlueBall]

Hand Solo: . .I will tell you exactly why. Because every senior pilot has payed his "dues" as a junior pilot! Flying reserve, being based at, and commuting to cities where nobody wants to live: Smog pits like LAX, DEN, DET, EWR.... Assigned to night flight milk runs and, as a commuter, sharing a "crash pad" and living out of your suitcase three weeks. Been there done all that.

[411A]

There is most definately a better system than seniority, and it is called pre-determined length pilot employment contracts, with mutual renewal clauses. And, trips should be rotated so all pilots get the gravy. UL (amoung others) have used this for years and seems to work very well.

[GlueBall]

411A: Yes, that works well with expats flying as "guests" for airlines in foreign countries. It's a job. . .. .But for citizens working "at home" in their own country, higher standards of labor laws apply, especially the right to organize and the right to collective bargaining, which includes the recognition of seniority. . .. .Slave drivers like O'Leary at Ryanair, or Joe Leonard at AirTran, sooner or later will learn that employes are part of the profit equation, and that employes will want to share in the financial success of their companies. But more importantly, in addition to fly safely from point A to point B, pilots will forever seek to improve their quality of life. It's a career.

[Hand Solo]

Yes but that doesn't address the tricky question of why succesful airlines like Virgin and Emirates can operate a rotating bidding system and keep most people happy. Senior people get the increased basic pay, junior people get a shot at the lucrative trips once every x months. Fine, keep seniority for type conversions etc as a reward for long service if you like, but saying "I had it bad in the past, now you must do so also" really is no justification for a system. Would you deny your kids a Polio vaccine on that basis?

[ETOPS]

One solution would be universal seniority based on the date of first issue of your Air Transport Licence. Thus within a company all pilots are in their respective seniority - those at the top having held the licence the longest and newcommers at the bottom. If a pilot changes airline he joins their list at his "correct" level as opposed to the vey tail end. A notional date could be calculated for ex-military pilots to reflect their military length of service.(Would they still complain?). .Within a company they would be free to organise rosters/bidding etc as they see fit but freedom of movement would allow you to find your niche.