spanisch atc

[megustalavida]

Hi

it became very quite about this topic. I hope the controllers could arrange an sensible agreement with AENA. Anyway can shed up a light?

gracias !

MGLV

[Mike_Retired_ATC]

I've read rumors on another web site that they were trying to hire temporary replacement controllers, but I don't know if it was true or not.

[Sonnendec]

Hi!

We are waitig for the decision of the "referee" who should establish our working conditions on february 28th or before.

The negotiations ended two weeks ago with no results at all, since AENA and the spanish government are still in the anti-controllers campaign. The last one was to issue a new law that implies fines to air traffic controllers that can go up to 4.5 million euros. You heard well, 4.5 MILLION euros!

Crazy...

[niknak]

Don't worry, according the latest GATCO magazine, Spanish ATCOs will be owned by a joint NATS/Ferrovial bid within 6 months.
:E

[SS10]

Where would the staffing come from if NATS were to win the contract any ideas?

[AngeleToR]

SS10, I don't know where in the world you will find and ATCO that will swap his current working conditions for ours. Don't forget that, even if you are a british ATC (just an example) temporary moved to Spain, you will be subject to Spanish laws', and the fines we are facing right now are not covered by the company, they are entitled to the individual person...
I'm quitting soon this lovely job because I cannot live with the permanent menace of getting fined and losing my house and all of my belongings, leaving my family (wife, kids and dog) living under the bridge. Luckily enough I've been all the last year rebuilding my life as it was before becoming an ATCO, and the time has finally arrived to do the swap.
I wish the best luck to my fellow spanish almost-ex-colleagues, and would like to give a piece of advice to all of you, fellows foreign ATCOs: Don't blindly believe what your HHRR people tell you, in the ACCs people is working mad shifts with 200 hours/month, this last year the government has approved mad laws to punish us for getting sick (you better fail to go to work because you broke a leg or need surgery, just a headache or a cold cost 4.5M€), and you can get called to work ANY free day and you MUST attend the call, or get fined according to the law...

My best wishes to anyone in the ATC business here in Spain-zuela, and to anyone related (pilots are the mainly affected by our mind-tyring shifts).

Out and over, back to computers... ;-))

[aldegar]

I'm in the same situation as AngeleTOR, training to go back to my previous life before being an ATCO. I also love this job, but knowing that if one morning my alarm clock doesn't work I could loose absolutely everything I have and be indebted for life, well, it just isn't worth it.

[Mike_Retired_ATC]

It is shocking that all of you controllers working in Spain have such conditions that are making you guys want to leave controlling. I can't imagine other controllers will want to step in as replacements with such stressful conditions.

[AngeleToR]

Yeah, it seems there will be lots of vacancies in this job in the next months... Today, 44 colleagues from Barcelona ACC will be charged and trialed for charges inherited from the Franco's time (our 'beloved' dictator until 1975), and some new ones created by our current government...

'Luckily' enough for these colleagues, the current law with its 4,5M€ fines wasn't still developed, so the maximum fees they will face will be in the order of 250000€ and a few years imprisoned... Have we gone nuts????

As my colleague said, I LOVE this job, it's so rewarding and I'm proud of the many times I helped pilots in troubles to get safe to ground, but I won't risk my family future no matter what they offer to pay me (which is way less for much more work than before, how many of you work 1800 hours per year, training and formation aside???)

Kind regards

[GAU-8]

Come on, I know many spanish colleagues, and the situation is not that bad, their new T&C will be set on the 28th of February. Those being in a trial, are the ones who left their working positions on the 3rd of December provoking the closure of most of spanish airspace, nobody will be convicted, it is just to calm the public opinion claiming for revenge and to scare the controllers not to do it again, mark my words. As for people leaving their ATC job, it is just a bluff, and I know it, the economical situation in Spain is so bad, that in no other job you will find (if you find any) what an ATCO has, even with the reduced conditions. Every controller in the world can be prosecuted if things go wrong, that goes with the job, but we all know the chances of that happening are pretty low.
Yes, I work more than those 1670 hours, those anyway probably will be reduced after February 28th.
Guys, I really hope you can get the best out of it, as Spain would be one of my favourite places to go to work if I have the chance, now that it will be open.
But be realistic, what you guys still have is as good as any of the best rewarded controllers in Europe, no other ATCO in Europe earns more than what a Madrid ACC one does nowadays, average hours are around the same, and also, the traffic figures in Spain are low in comparison with central Europe, so there is not that much workload to handle, easier job, similar conditions, does it for me.
Just understand that what you had, was just too good.

[Me Me Me Me]

I'm contracted to work 2088 hours a year and - like most "9-5 workers" I work a good deal more than that to get what needs to be done, done. (for no extra money or additional voluntary shift payments).

I'm not going to comment on the detail of the situation in Spain as I'm not informed enough to do so... but the general perception is that of under-worked and ridiculously over-paid controllers taking the hump at finally getting made to earn it a bit more. That may seem sweeping and emotive... but so is saying 'this is an outrage as I WILL be fined 4.5 million euros if my alarm clock doesn't go off one morning'.

[AngeleToR]

OK, I will try to explain my point a little better. I'm not talking in behalf of anyone, I'm just telling what I will do, and why.

I left a VERY good job to become an ATC, I have never stopped studying nor even for a year. Even being ATC I keep on reading and updating in computers, as it's also a hobby for me. I know there are lots of worse jobs out there, worse paids, more hours.... Honestly, that's not MY problem, I can get back to my old job (which I will in fact) the moment I want, as I have already talked with my old 'company'. I will work only mornings, Monday to Friday, lots of holidays and from time to time will have to make some extra hours that get rewarded with money or spare time. Actually, I'm a slave of my company and my government. You can say I'm just crying for what it was... OK, so ask for my job in a couple of months and you will have a vacancy waiting for you, enjoy.

Some colleagues of mine don't have the luck I have, a career with good opportunities, or don't have the bravery (you need some) to quit this job. I've been waiting for a year for this situation to improve, but it only worsens. Those able to leave are leaving, those less resilient to extreme pressure and mad shifts are falling ill (and I'm not talking about simulating, I mean psychiatric treatments with strong medications just to be able to get some sleep). You don't take such kind of medication just to simulate a fake illness, come on!! So less people for more work, and no one is coming from outside to work in this conditions.

So, safety in Spain is compromised. Mad fines are waiting to be applied on some of us to serve as example for the rest. The company/government has been crushing us for more than a year, and the people only talks about 900.000€... Today I received February's pay, 1.450€ :OOO This is the rule this last year, you don't know what will you earn until you receive the money, and this month is a new record for me... in the bad side...

So dear, whoever is willing to get my job, here it is waiting for you, enjoy and good luck!!!

Oh, and BTW, when I joined AENA long ago, I earned more in my previous company than as ATC, but I wanted to have spare time above any other thing and I'm so resilient (luckily for me) to shift working. Every one of us has different expectations and targets in life, what I consider **** may be heaven for someone, and a ****ty job for someone else can be my dream job... It al depends on your expectations, but there is NO money in the world to pay me 200 hours/month doing this job, away from my family and in the stressful environment we live in right now.

[GAU-8]

The new conditions are set now, 1670 hours for 2011 and 2012, 1595 in 2013. 200,000 euros average gross salary.

[sonicATCo]

hahah! where do I sign up for that?

[Sonnendec]

Don´t buy that. None of us are going to earn that money :ugh:. Anyway, if anyone is interested, just read the new T&C and after that, tell me if you are still interested. I´ll change my position with any european controller.

We are the first ones, prepare yourselves for what is coming in Europe.

Good luck.

[Tarq57]

Come on, guys, look at the writing on the wall, and disregard the trolls.
CANSO will be quite interested to progress their interests in Spain, shouldn't take too much imagination to work out where it's likely headed from there.

[AngeleToR]

Hi guys,

Sonnendec, great explanation, it can be said louder but not clearer, don't buy the government's press explanation, the new conditions are the last year's ones with a red lace.

Tarq, great to hear from you here. Obviously you have first hand information that most people in this forum hasn't, and you see the whole picture. This is not going to stop with us, and guess who is the CANSO's president???? Gotcha, our dear AENA's president, Mr SOTB Lema. Spain is a training ground for what it's to come to the rest of europe. Soon someone else will be the improductive, lazy and privileged ones... and the history will repeat...

Dear all, I say again: If my working conditions are so good according to your preferences, there are going to be open positions soon, at least two that I know of, and many more coming...

Regards