Airside Insurance (For Car)

[Ryan5252]

It is well know (I hope) that most standard motor policies are underwritten to include an exclusion for "damage caused by using the vehicle in or on any area where aircraft normally land, take off, move or park". Does anyone know if it is possible to take out seperate insurance for this purpose, ideally only on an ad-hoc basis?

Regards
Ryan

[stevelup]

In case it helps, I checked this with my insurer and their definition of airside was 'aircraft manoeuvring areas' - meaning the runway, taxiways and apron.

Just being airside in the sense of being the 'other side of the fence' didn't invalidate cover.

[Ryan5252]

In case it helps, I checked this with my insurer and their definition of airside was 'aircraft manoeuvring areas' - meaning the runway, taxiways and apron.

Thanks for that. I did check with my insurer to see if they could waive the exculsion (for an additional premium) but turns out they won't accept the risk at all!!

In my case, I would only be 'airside' on a rare occasion, but this would include the aapron, taxiways and runway.

[Mark 1]

Although the clause was written with bigger airports in mind, it is usually interpretted to cover any area available for the movement of aircraft. This will include on most airfields some areas that are available for cars and aircraft.

Aircraft insurers like Trafford's include an extension to cover the named pilots' cars when they are airside. It may be worth contacting them to see whether they offer it as a stand-alone cover.

[stevelup]

I just checked my Trafford's policy and it covers third party damage caused by my car whilst airside, but not the car itself.

So if I drive into some's pride and joy, that's covered but if someone uninsured lands on top of my car, then it isn't.

[Ryan5252]

someone uninsured lands on top of my car, then it isn't.

Damage to your car would be covered because the vehicle is insured to be there (assuming you have permission to be there of course). That would fall under the aircrafts insurance to a third party - it would be the same as landing on top of any other airport vehicle or person, which would of course be impossible if he was wearing a hi-viz! ;)

All I'm after is to be covered against damage to someone else's pride and joy - though if I managed to drive my car into a plane/helicopter in all that wide open space I'd certainly consider whether or not I should be allowed a driving licence never mind a pilot's one!!

I'll give Trafford's a jingle in the morning. Thanks for the help!

[ShyTorque]

First time I came across this was in about 1990. My broker changed insurer on my behalf, supposedly to get me a better deal. After I had to chase the broker when the cover notes ran out twice, they advised me that the new company did tend to be a "bit slow" sending out policy documents.

It finally arrived after about five months!

I immediately read the small print. It included the phrase "The policy shall be deemed to be not operative if the vehicle is driven in, on or around any aviation location".

I rang the insurer direct and asked what this actually meant. They said it meant exactly what it said and it was something that all insurers were now including in the policy (or not including, if you get my drift).

I pointed out that my declared occupation on the proposal was "RAF Officer" and asked what happened when I drove to work; I lived forty miles away. They said I wasn't covered near or on the RAF base, even on the roads or in any car park. To say I was angry was an understatement. I'd paid in full, in advance and I hadn't been insured on every working day for months. They subsequently nulled and voided the policy.

I threatened legal action and eventually they refunded the entire cost. The next company included less stringent wording and I was effectively insured unless I drove onto the dispersal, past the barrier, which I never needed to do.

[englishal]

Most aircraft insurance policies include (at no extra cost) airside car cover for the policyholder in my experience.

[maxred]

This brings back an incident that happened to me. I lined up for take off, aborted due to (water) contamination in the fuel, returned to the apron, where the local CFI had brought his brand new BMW motor bike onto the apron, unknown of course to me, and it blew over as I conducted power checks on my malfunctioning engine.

A very rude and irate CFI blamed me for the whole incident, and of course his insurance would not cover it, nor would the airfield insurance cover the damage to the machine.

On enquiry, it was explained that specific risks must be noted on the policy, and also that the airfield policy had to have specific mention of specific vehicles that had access. This was not one of them.

Now, it may have been the particular company or broker, but the attention with insurance is of course in the detail. The small print is generally not weighed in your favour:uhoh:

[Ryan5252]

Not Good!! The only incident I've ever experienced to date was coming back in to land at my home base last summer out of hours. After having done a low fly-by of the runway and broadcasting to 'Traffic' I set up my final approach. I noticed, at about 500' a car operating around the area of taxiway, nothing out of the norm here and carried on the approach keeping my spare eye focused on the car - I couldn't believe it as he edged closer and closer to the runway and then when I was less than 100' from touchdown (after crossed the numbers) he came straight out on the runway!! Full power and go around no big deal, but it opened my eyes as to how bloody stupid some people can be - he clearly never checked the approach!! :ugh:

(Well I say 'he' - could have been a woman! ;))

[codemonkey]

i confess, i was, in a previous life, an insurance underwriter with all the exams to boot (imagine the ATPL but with 10 insurance subjects and try not to yawn!)

most motor insurers will run a mile if you mention cover for airside. the problem is that the industry has deteriorated into a bunch of call centre workers following a bunch of codified rules to the letter, without scope for common sense.

and the definition was obviously conceived with driving around the aprons at heathrow in mind and because liabiity for damage to multi mullion pound commerical jets is not something the average motor insurer would want to cover.

i think your best bet is to have a discussion with an aviation friendly insurance broker and see what they suggest.

[RatherBeFlying]

Ontario, Canada has mandated a standard policy for all auto insurers: Ontario Automobile Policy (OAP) - Financial Services Commission of Ontario (http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/OAP.asp)

In an abundance of caution, I had a look at it to see if there were any aviation exclusions as I do drive along and across runways at our glider club (after turning the car both ways as I would in the towplane);)

There no aviation exclusions in the OAP:ok:

You will have to move here:\

[2 sheds]

Stevelup
In case it helps, I checked this with my insurer and their definition of airside was 'aircraft manoeuvring areas' - meaning the runway, taxiways and apron.
That could start an interesting argument, as "manoeuvring area (sic)" is defined in law! Does your insurer "define" it - or is that your interpretation?

2 s

[stevelup]

Their exact words were 'aircraft manoeuvring area'.

You're quite right - the manoeuvring area excludes the apron... That part was my bad interpretation.

So (with my insurance at least), I'm covered everywhere except the runways and taxiways.

[Cessna 172S Skyhawk]

The easiest way to know what would be covered by an ordinary motor car insurance policy would be:

Does a post man or electricity man (or woman) have unrestricted access.
On an airfield they would not, therefor it would be considered private land.

A motor car policy covers RTA on public roads / land. Therefore it is reasonable to appreciate that an insurance company would not pay in the event of a loss on private land.

On the flip side of the coin, an aircraft would not insure an aircraft driving on a public road, they will insure an aircraft in public/private airspace.

As for the CFI and the BMW bike, he should know better and should be aware of the Law. Therefore he should appologies to you and not be blaming you.

[SpeedbirdXK8]

Do not assume your aircraft policy covers your car/vehicle airside. Not all policies do, some wont - no matter what and some can but charge and only if you ask. You can buy a stand alone airside liability but is very expsensive for a private car owner.

[Scoticus]

Only experience is from back in the early 90s when I was working in a site office airside at LGW and had to drive there due to distance from any staff car park (it would have been a convoluted half hour walk)

My vehicle insurance did not cover me anywhere airside & insurer would not countenance extension of cover except at an absolutely extortionate rate (in the tens of thousands of pounds if I remember correctly); probably due to ignorance of the demarcation between airside roads & aircraft manouevring areas.

My employer (BAA) however did cover my vehicle (icluding £50Million Third Party liability) but it did have to have magnetic signs & an orange flashing light, again, happily supplied by them.

I was not allowed to go onto manouevring areas because of lack of an R/T fit but did have to cross an active taxiway by means of the airside road.

This was nearly 20 years ago and I believe that post Twin Towers etc. the rules have been considerably tightened.

[Flyeruk]

Thought I would re awaken this thread as my local airfield has gone all official on us re airside insurance.
I am at a mixed glider/ power site and we are now being restricted to having access with our cars to 'airside' only if we have airside insurance for our cars.
When I last looked in to this my insurance company basically laughed at the suggestion!
Since all our glider trailers are only accessed by driving across the apron this poses a problem.
Has anyone actually got airside insurance and if so which company and how much did it cost?
Thanks

[DLT1939]

As has previously been posted, aircraft insurance policies typically include the following clause without additional premium:




Vehicle Airside Liability Extension Clause





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jvui/kFeJqKyT7r8T45uSfiDnXVK+hOm6jcpxcukHyiOUKNnazZebDhDy/V3D2LoYicV+M+o+9mn5GM3czLaDGISyUOkmWuakvg9QOt0Sws5NrNuj1TVZp OoJiWpsVcx8/mrzMGqvPWsF6hqPLusOwVuxJlbGsKBEaGtY1tCtTuj0oZ62EdczHSGSruvte N+a3NjATpNLwV+/LhXDjhRta2rG3pCAAAA7It is understood and agreed that Section II of this Certificate is extended to indemnify the Insured for all sums which the Insured shall become legally liable to pay, and shall pay, as compensatory damages (including costs awarded against the Insured) up to GBP250,000 any one Accident for accidental bodily injury or damage to property caused by any vehicle operated by the Insured or any of his employees or any Named Pilot whilst such vehicle is airside and is being used in connection with the operation of the Aircraft insured hereon.





This extension is subject to the following additional exclusions:





Loss of or damage to any property belonging to or in the case, custody of the Insured or the vehicle operator.
Bodily Injury or loss of or damage to property caused by vehicle which the Insured may cause or permit any other person to use on the road in such a manner as to render them responsible for insurance under any domestic or international lay appertaining to road traffic, or where no such law exists, whilst the vehicle is on any public highway.
Bodily injury to any person who at the time of sustaining such injury is engaged in the service of the Insured or acting on his behalf, or liability for which the Insured or his insurer may be held liable under any employers’ liability or workman’s compensation legislation or any similar legislation.
Bodily injury to any occupant of the vehicle.







This extension of coverage is subject to a deductible of GBP250 each Accident.

[SpeedbirdXK8]

Don't presumme you are covered plus not all policies provide the same level of cover. For the avoidance of doubt email or talk to your broker and they should be able to answer your question straight away. Also check with the airfield owner as they might have cover provided under the airfield third party liability insurance. This is a potential insurance grey area because it deals with liability only - i.e. prove I/we/you were negligent.

[ShyTorque]

From my personal experience, I'd say presume you are not covered unless you have taken steps to ensure that you are.

[SawMan]

Make no assumptions with insurance- read and understand the policy before money changes hands. Never let your broker change your anything without obtaining your express permission first- and get that in writing. Unless the policy clearly says you're covered, then you're not covered- insurance is a business of written specifics.

Can't say for anywhere else, but in the US you can get a "Personal Liability" policy that covers anything you do anywhere within it's coverage area, and it generally has no limitations concerning where you are, just that you are there personally. It takes effect after any other insurance coverage is exhausted or where there is no other insurance coverage. About the only thing it doesn't cover is intentional malicious criminal acts. If you have assets which you don't want to risk or you do things beyond what the average person does, then you need such a policy. The cost is tied to the coverage and coverage usually starts in the million dollar range and goes up. It ain't cheap but unless you're set up with protected assets, then you need it- if it pays off once it will be worth it.

Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with any insurance companies; in fact I hate paying it myself but it's a necessary evil in life so....

[RatherBeFlying]

I moved to Alberta from Ontario some years ago. Both provinces mandate a standard automobile policy which has no airside exclusions:ok:

I was thinking there was no worries driving across the runway when it's covered in snow, but walking across last week we spotted tracks from a skiplane.

[Corporal Clott]

Thought I would re awaken this thread as my local airfield has gone all official on us re airside insurance.

Your local airfield has just done you a favour. If you don't have airside insurance and you write off a £50k aircraft, and even worse the occupants, then unless you have a lot of loose change then the 3rd Party's estate will take your house or you will go to jail. What you're doing is no better than the local yobs that drive Peugeots on the road with no insurance either.

Get insurance or keep your car off of your airfield - simple choice! :ugh:

CPL Clott

[Kitbag]

Can anybody provide a referenced definition of 'airside' please?

[aluminium persuader]

"Airside" is a very vague term! I believe it is used in terms of "anywhere an aircraft might be". I've also seen both "aircraft manoeuvring area" and "aircraft movement area" used which have subtle differences, not to mention that what you may think of as either may not be the same as what the airfield operator has defined!

It's an absolute minefield!

[bartonflyer]

"It's an absolute minefield! "

Can you get insurance for driving on that?

[Silvaire1]

Your local airfield has just done you a favour. If you don't have airside insurance and you write off a £50k aircraft, and even worse the occupants, then unless you have a lot of loose change then the 3rd Party's estate will take your house or you will go to jail. I really have to smile when I read this uniquely European point of view. Nobody worries about this nonsense in the US, nobody knows what "airside" means, and everybody drives on the ramp. In fact at my airport the only way I can get to/from my aircraft and hangar is by driving a car - you can't exit through the gate without a car to trip the inductive sensor and open the automatic gate. There is no pedestrian access.

I'm sure about once every fifty years it causes a problem for somebody, somewhere although I've never heard of it. My risk mitigation technique is to not hit anything while driving the quarter mile between hangar and gate. Aircraft have right of way on the ramp and that's the only rule required to prevent problems.

[dsc810]

This one comes up on the glider pilot net forum every now and then.
Usually with the same lack of any real conclusion.

The problem is compounded because at glider airfields there is no distinction between airside and otherwise or indeed between a runway and a taxi-way on multi-direction run grass winch sites.

[Windrusher]

'Fraid I missed this thread when it started.

I have motor insurance from NFU Mutual who, after a certain amount of checking with their legal folk, were happy to extend cover to include the gliding club, provided that I comply with airfield instructions and liability is limited to something like £5M. NFU have previously offered (and may still do) tailored insurance for hot air balloon pilots, so maybe they were a bit less terrified by the prospect.

The key seems to be getting the insurer to recognize the difference between a commercial airport with big aircraft and passengers, and somewhere where the liability is generally rather less than on the road or at the supermarket car park.

Windrusher

[Bob Bevan]

When we were putting our aircraft product together we decided to take the line that the airside cover in respect of cars would operate at the home base of the aircraft anywhere other than where the vehicle would require cover to meet the road traffic law. This avoids having to worry about defining the limits of the airfield or airside cover as it effectively ensures the client is covered one way or another.

Out of interest, a motor vehicle only airside cover might protect against potential liabilities arising out of the use of a vehicle but an aircraft owner can face other liabilities (e.g. if they knock over a ladder in a hangar and it prangs another owner’s plane). It is worth ensuring that you are also covered for such exposure while airside.

Cheers

Bob