Nothing Personal Folks --its Just "business"

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Heard on tonight's news, due to the unprecedented 'rush' to get out of Cairns etc, ahead of Severe Cyclone YASI, airline fares are now DOUBLE the normal fare.....

Is this correct..??

'Tain't Nuthin' Personal Folks....Its Just "Business"........:yuk:

"So & So" 'MAFIA' comes to mind.....:mad:

AFL Grand Final Time - OK- Its optional to travel...:{
Christmas ditto....sort of....:ouch:
School Holidays....reprehensible...:eek:

"Natural Disasters".....SHAME SHAME SHAME...!!!! (Apols Mr Hinch....)

I know you'll probably be returning to Cairns etc EMPTY, BUT......
A "Fair and Reasonable" Fare would have been good PR....I would have thought!!!!

:yuk::yuk:

[lilflyboy262]

Cost me 4x as much to get out of Dallas Fort Worth after hurricane Rita closed Huston.

Twice doesn't look as bad now!

Sick as it is, people always profit from some form of disaster, from getting people out of there, to getting people into there.

[airtags]

what's the onload priority for staff travel again???????????

AT :E

[Capn Bloggs]

what's the onload priority for staff travel again???????????
Better ask AA for a Jumpseat Cyclone Evacuation exemption. :}

That might distract him and The Ginja Ninja from thinking of a Cyclone Recovery tax...

[Angle of Attack]

Heard on tonight's news,

Enough said get your facts from a real source not TV news, they are finished.
Airfares go up when seats are limited its a fact of life, having said that airlines were increasing capacity today, dont know how you went.

There is going to be total destruction by the way in the next couple of days thats why everyone wants to get out. I wouldnt be surprised if Cairns is blown off the map.

[Icarus2001]

I wouldnt be surprised if Cairns is blown off the map.

Surely not. As a cyclone area all buildings are built to cyclone standards, so they will all be fine. No? Really? They will be damaged? Well why the fcuk do we bother with the extra costs of "cyclone standards" it achieves nothing.

[lurker999]

the 250 - 300km/hr winds are just one part of the thing with this beast.

it could last 12 hrs, buildings can take the wind load for a time, 12 hrs is outside that time. also if things hit said houses (trees, branches, cars are a definite possibility in a CAT 5, etc) the houses are not built for those impacts. Boeings and Airbuses are happy doing 800km/hr, but if they hit a 100kg object moving at that speed, i'd be rather surprised if they stayed flying. same with a wall. a 100kg tree branch moving @ 200km/hr will do major damage to any wall you may care to construct

the ADRs target houses to survive CAT3s, this could be a massive CAT4 or even a CAT 5, that's a completely different thing.

and last but certainly not least.

STORM SURGE.

I've seen different projections from 2 - 4M. the US Navy have significant wave height at 27ft, that's on top of the surge. the buildings in Cairns are not built to survive becoming part of the GBR for many hrs with 27 ft waves bashing them about.

2M storm surge will cause massive damage to the airport esp with 27ft rollers.

http://takesteps.org/empower/exhibition/A4c_v1_c4_CairnsStormSurge.pdf


*forgot flying debris

[Angle of Attack]

Just like Brisbane was unfloodable lol

Just accept it is going to happen to many of these generations cant accept it,
North Qld WIPED OUT will be the news in 2 days accept it and move on, there is more coming!

[MyNameIsIs]

It's going to get pretty bad up there. Probably best to get out or at least inland whilst you still can (just).

Have a look at Yasi on the satellite images etc and all the info/advice coming out from different places- friggin massive. Expect a lot of destruction.

To those who stay, hope you are well supplied and prepared!



As for the original topic, I wouldn't be surprised if carriers are charging a premium to get out. However, I hope they are not. Can they be found to be profiteering from this?

[Worrals in the wilds]

Just like Brisbane was unfloodable lolWhich was only believed by the gullible.

As for Cairns, maybe you're right but hopefully not.
All the best FNQ.

[Tankengine]

Be interesting to see if the house Dad built 60 years ago survives another one!:eek:
Good old fashioned Qld hardwood!:ok:

"never use a nail if you can use a screw, never use a screw if you can fit a nut and bolt!":E

[Unhinged]

A quick rap for VB. I do a fair bit of travel on the commercials between jobs, but with Yasi around I had to cancel five flights on a run up and down the east coast next week. They were mostly on el cheapo tickets, and at least one was booked as completely non-refundable.

Sent VB an email at 1330 today, and at 1445 I got a reply to say that they're all cancelled and refunded with no fees charged - even the non-cancellable one.

It isn't VB's bloody cyclone and they would have been well within their rights to tell me to go away. But they really came to the party on this one ! Thanks and well done :-))

[Flying Binghi]

For those first timers, remember for an east coast cyclone that north of the eye the winds will be from the south west tending more westerly as yer head further north of the eye. South of the eye will get the brunt of the wind.






.

[bekolblockage]

Just read this on Airservices Internet Briefing Service.

METAR METAR YBCS 020730Z AUTO 19006KT //// // ////// 26/21 Q0993
RMK RF00.2/014.0

TAF TAF YBCS 020505Z 0206/0306
22020G40KT 9999 -SHRA BKN025
FM020800 26050G70KT 6000 RA BKN015
FM021100 30080G130KT 3000 RA OVC015
FM021800 35060G80KT 6000 RA BKN015
FM030000 02030G50KT 8000 -RA BKN018
TEMPO 0206/0306 3000 SHRA BKN012
PROB30 TEMPO 0206/0216 0500 +TSRA BKN005 OVC010
RMK FM020600 SEV TURB BLW 5000FT TILL030600
T 28 26 26 25 Q 997 994 990 988

ATIS ATIS YBCS Z 012353
CAIRNS ATS NOT AVBL.
CAIRNS AD CLOSED DUE TO PASSAGE
OF TROPICAL CYCLONE.
REFER TO NOTAM FOR SERVICE RESUMPTION

Interested in the ATIS section.
While understanding why ATS is not available, who determines that the AD is closed?? I thought the practice of closing the airport for wx was stopped years ago? Given the Metar at 0730, could one not operate safely there at that time?

[Capt Claret]

As I understand it, cyclone building codes only cover Cat 4' so winds to 210 kph. None cover Cat 5.

[kiwiandrew]

to the OP , when you say "double the normal fare" which normal fare are you talking about ? Do you mean double the normal rock bottom advertised discount fare which usually accounts for only a few seats per flight ? or double the normal full economy fare ? or double some other normal fare in between ? Perhaps if you were to give us an idea of actual $$$ it would help get your message across .

[Wildpilot]

Just as the good kite flying weather comes they all want to leave.

[balance]

Nothing like baseless allegations, Kiwi. Perhaps Ex-FSO is just a disguised member of our exalted news media? Nothing like a big headline to outrage the public.

Stupid threads like this, and the parallel thread on a similar topic, absolutely disgust me. :yuk::yuk::yuk:

Show us your evidence Ex FSO GRIFFO.

Otherwise I would submit to the mods that this thread is probably libelous and deserves to be deleted.

[ferris]

You appear to be a little 'unbalanced' on this topic, balance. that this thread is probably libelous So if QF did double the fares, and the news was report was correct, you agree that QF did something wrong? Otherwise, how could it be libelous? On the other thread you are defending QFs right to double the fares due to it being a one-way load. Which is it?

[balance]

Negative, Ferris. I'm trying to be absolutely "balanced". It seems to me that others here aren't.

Thats why I just went to the Qantas website and checked one way fares between Cairns and Brisbane which are fully flexible and purchased on the day of travel. A pretty easy piece of research really.

Strangely enough, they range between $564 and $684, full economy. The figure apparently bandied around by the press (and Teresa on another thread) was $600. Ok, so thats consistent. So what? That seems to be the usual full economy fare?

In actual fact - THE AIRFARES DID NOT GO UP AT ALL!

Just go to: qantas.com - research, plan, book and manage your trip (http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/home/au/en) and do the research for yourself.

So, tell me again, where is the rorting here?

[ferris]

I'm sorry but your post is an example of your lack of objectivity. How can finding out what the current airfare is, demonstrate? If you had figures for the average fare over the last 6 months, then we would be in a position to make a judgement about whether QF was gouging/profiteering/being opportunistic. The cynic in me doubts that all the extra flights at the $600 fare were humanitarian. I look forward to being corrected.
Will you concede that you agree that if QF charged more than the 'normal' fare, they did something wrong?

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Just out of curiosity. What did DJ charge? Seems to be all about QF here.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Gee 'Balance', Just to give U the balanced view....
NAH! I'm definitely not the media!
Quite a few here know who I is....enuf said.

The news was reported on Radio 6PR in Perth and on the CH7 news.....

I did ask 'Is this correct'..?? (3rd line of my text..!!)

Wot part of that did U not unnerstand..??

Note - I used the 'generic term' of 'airline fares'.....NIL mention of any company whatsoever.....:=

I see U are from QLD - hope you're not caught up in it - truly.

Cheers:ok:

[balance]

Of course I cannot give you the "average" fares over the last six months, ferris. It isnt particularly "objective" of you to ask me to, because you probably know that I can't do that.

Of course I would agree that "if" QF charged more than the "normal" fare, they would have been opportunistic.

But they didn't.

My point is that based on the current fares from the website taken from a random future date, full economy fares are between the figures I quoted.

So, what else do you need?

And, this isn't just about QF. It's JQ and VB, too... I'll let you do your own research on those two. In fact, if JQ or VB did price gouge, I'd be rather amused.

But it is simple, based on evidence provided here, QF DID NOT PRICE GOUGE. I am yet to be provided with ANY evidence that they did.

Innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa. Come up with some evidence, not rumour and inuendo from the tabloids...

So, ferris, will you agree that there is no valid evidence to suggest that they have price gouged?

And thanks for the clarification, griffo. No - I'm safe mate, thanks for the sentiment. I will admit to being a bit cranky today about some pretty unfair allegations about a company of which I proudly work for. Sometimes QF do some strange stuff. On this occasion though, they are being very unfairly treated....

[ferris]

It isnt particularly "objective" of you to ask me to, because you probably know that I can't do that It IS 'objective' of me. I don't know what the normal fare out of CNS is, however, your rose-coloured defence of QF is blatantly flawed. You openly admit you don't know the usual fare, and can't obtain it, but are quite prepared to say claims that QF are gouging are libelous. Just trying to point out how stupid that looks. I realise you are emotional about the topic, but that is why I made the 'unbalanced' comment.

I'm also sure that when people from up that way have more time to peruse this thread, they may have some input re; 'regular fares'. So if you don't mind, I will reserve judgement on whether there was any gouging, and not make a decision based on the "evidence in the thread so far". That would be a little emotional. I just know that when I was looking at a MEL- CNS return pre-cyclone (a few weeks ago), I was looking at around $600- $800.

(I won't even go there about whether $600 is a fair and reasonable, 'usual' fare CNS- vegas :hmm: )

[balance]

Ferris, you aren't making sense. Go to the Qantas website. Pick a random day. Check the fares. You will see exactly what I'm saying. Neither you, nor I will EVER know what the average fare was over the past 6 months, because no carrier is going to share that information. We can however, see what the fares are now.

Are you seriously suggesting that QF have, as a result of this cyclone, permenantly raised their fares between CNS and BNE? If so, I'm fairly surprised at your cynicism. I really doubt that fares would have suffered a permanent increase, competition simplyy wouldnt allow for that. VB would kill 'em.

So, based on the fares currently shown on their website I'd suggest that I'm using some valid evidence to suggest that no such gouging existed.

On the other hand, you are saying that because a tabloid has stated that this happened, it must be true? Even without hard evidence? The tabloids said just three days ago that the VB 777 "nosedived"! Do you really believe that too?

Seriously mate, give it up, and have a great night. :ok: Fokker, out.

[NZScion]

Interested in the ATIS section.
While understanding why ATS is not available, who determines that the AD is closed?? I thought the practice of closing the airport for wx was stopped years ago? Given the Metar at 0730, could one not operate safely there at that time?

Aerodrome is Notamed closed (NOTAM C45/11 in case you're interested). I'd read it along the lines of the operator has elected to close the aerodrome, which I'd imagine that any operator is entitled to do at any time, normally this would only be under extraordinary circumstances, which this TC most certainly is. For ATCers to hang around and control no traffic would simply be unnecessary risk to them, so the logical choice is to close.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Reur 'For the ATCers to hang around'......

The solid brick (?) building of the tower complex may be one of the safest places in town......

e.g. In Derby WA, for instance, the guys 'on duty' when the 'Red Alert' was announced were to stay there, on duty, in the Flight Service Unit building, and 'ride it out'.
They were also to supply weather reports - METARS / SPECIS to 'the outside world - and emergency comms via our HF / SSB channels / teletype if working etc .

Emergency genset was available, so everything worked, and a 'food / supplies box' was always kept full and fresh for the occasion.

I am told that families would be welcome to stay as well.

Had a couple of 'close' ones at the time, but nothing direct.

[ferris]

OK, I have done as you suggested. A random selection of days yields the following:
Fares are available from $119 to $684, with the type of fare that these people would've needed being the $384 "super saver" (or less). {Out of interest, VB is $129 to $349 for "flexible"}.

I'd suggest that if your intention is to quell dissatisfaction with QF being opportunistic here, you are on a hiding to nothing.

[compressor stall]

Learmonth was notammed closed last week due to TC Bianca. Not just a ybcs thing.

[Hempy]

ferris don't bother. Go back over previous posts and you'll get a good indication of what you are dealing with...

[Unhinged]

There are two notams of interest, the first one has already been quoted in this thread, but the second one sets up a Restricted Area and gives clear requirements for operating in it:

(edited ...)
THE CARRIAGE AND USE OF TWO RADIOS IS REQUIRED FOR ENTRY TO THE
RESTRICTED AREA.

PRIOR TO OPERATING ON THE MANOEUVRING AREA OR IN THE AFFECTED
AIRSPACE, PILOTS/OPERATORS MUST:
1.OBTAIN A BRIEFING ON CONTINGENCY PROCEDURES FROM AIRSERVICES
AUSTRALIA ON +61 7 3866 3798
2.OBTAIN A LANDING, DEPARTURE OR TRANSIT TIME.

TRAFFIC INFO BROADCAST BY AIRCRAFT (TIBA) AND MANDATORY BROADCAST
PROC AS DETAILED IN AIP GEN 3.3 APPLY ON 124.9 MHZ.
TCAS AND TRANSPONDER EQPT MUST BE SELECTED ON AT ALL TIMES.
OPERATE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE IFR AND DISPLAY NAVIGATION AND ANTI
COLLISION LIGHTS.

[balance]

Opinions are like ar$eholes. Everyone has one. Some of them really stink. Nice contribution, Hempy.

The level of ignorance on this BB is profound. Ferris, take a look at the fares carefully, without your ANTI-QF glasses on, for christs sake.

Yup, they range from $119 to $684 on some days. On each flight, there are a few seats at the cheaper prices, and once these sell out, you are left with the $684 fares. Riiiiight? Got that?

So if one mug punter complained to a tabloid that all he or she could get was a $684 seat, then the tabloid implies that ALL seats were that price. Bullsh1t of course, but hey, it sells a story doesn't it?

YOU are doing the same thing, ferris. YOU ASSUME that I'm on a hiding to nothing, when you are demonstrating clearly an ignorance of how yield management works. At the same time you seem to be making rather unfounded accusations.

YOUR intention seems to be to incite dissatisfaction with Qantas. Sorry, poor attempt.

Enough. It's like a fricking kindergarten here sometimes.

[Pera]

I imagine that the cheap fares would be sold out pretty quick and only the expensive ones left.

The media's not a good place to get info these days.

[topdrop]

The solid brick (?) building of the tower complex may be one of the safest places in town......
I'm afraid the section of building housing Cairns Approach is not built very well and I certainly wouldn't want to stay there - plus it's in the storm surge area - don't think water and TAAATS equipment go together very well.
In Darwin, I certainly would have used the Flight Service centre as it survived Tracy intact.

[ferris]

The level of ignorance on this BB is profound You got that right! You think that they sell a few tickets at $119 and the rest at $684? Oh man, you are as dopey as everyone else is saying. Why plaster your ignorance all over the internet FFS?
If QF had've rocked up with the extra frames and charged, say, $380 for every seat, then it might be justified. After all, that is what they normally average (and make a profit) {educate yourself about yield management, genius :rolleyes: }. Maybe even a little bit extra for the empty inbound. But if they have charged $684 (or near enough), THAT IS opportunistic. And they deserve everything they get.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

dopey? forget it balance.:ugh:

Whilst it's clear that the airlines didn't give the tickets away for nothing. To suggest somehow they were profiteering, based on a single news paper report shows how dopey some people can be.

Good Night. And good luck to all up north.

[balance]

Okay. YOUR ignorance is profound, ferris. You have no evidence whatsoever. Yet you are making sh1t up. And calling me names when I point out YOUR lack of reason.

Again: "YOUR intention seems to be to incite dissatisfaction with Qantas. Sorry, poor attempt."

Whatever, d1ckhead.

[ferris]

What, exactly, have I made up? Please, you already have demonstrated you don't have a clue, but just point out what is made up and I'll happily retract it.
I didn't report the story (it was channel 7).
I didn't start the thread (ex FSO Griffo).
I didn't invent the available airfares.
I'm not inciting anything. Just pointing out how stupid you look in the manner you are trying to defend Qantas. Without any help from me, you continue to do so. Why don't you tell us all how yield management works again?

The only statement I can find from QF doesn't fill me with joy...."There have been reports that airlines are hiking up their fares to take advantage of the exodus.

But the Qantas spokesman said it was charging standard commercial rates, ...." here Hundreds of tourists flee as Cyclone Yasi approaches (http://www.theage.com.au/environment/weather/hundreds-of-tourists-flee-as-cyclone-yasi-approaches-20110201-1ac93.html) Sounds like weasel words for the $684 non-advanced purchase fare. A far clearer, unequivocal denial by Jetstar "...Mr Westaway said Jetstar fares from Cairns on Wednesday were also normal - from $139 to Brisbane, $169 to Melbourne and $149 to the Gold Coast.

"We are not in any way, shape or form changing the price of seats," he said."

Still, I await your transition to sensible debate, ready to be corrected with facts or competent argument, rather than your fanstasies and slurs.

[balance]

The only weasel words I hear are yours, ferris. You are only listening to that which suits your anti QF sentiment. Sensible debate, yet you arent listening? You are selective, you have no evidence, and at the same time you ARE implying improper conduct from QF. Try telling me you arent? No in fact dont worry about it. You wont listen to anything else, so why bother any further.

I'll go away and leave you stew in your own crap. Have a nice day.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

The Hindu : News / National : Stranded passengers from Egypt complain of high fares charged by Air India (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article1146169.ece)

[Skynews]

ferris, i'll bite,What, exactly, have I made up?
You got that right! You think that they sell a few tickets at $119 and the rest at $684? Oh man, you are as dopey as everyone else is saying.

The way I read your comment above, is that you suggest QF sold a couple of tickets at $119 and all the rest at $684.

Maybe they did maybe they didn't. I suspect most seats were already sold "prior" to this "event" becoming a reality. Naturally most of the cheaper seats would be the first to go, some people buy the more expensive first due to the ticket conditions etc, then all that would be left for the late comers are the left overs, read more expensive seats. Go to qantas.com and you will find prices are available between the ready deal fare and the business class fare.

If we had a military that was capable of doing more than provide holding instructions and delays the government could use them!

[ozbiggles]

Skynews
A few hundred of the military are cleaning up in the Lockyer Valley
A few thousand will be getting down to hard work in FNQ
A few thousand overseas keeping the baddies away.
One of them even died last night serving this country.
I'll leave it at that because anymore might be considered a little harsh for someone of your calibre....Wishing you hours of holding

[Normasars]

OZ Biggles :ok:

Skynews, you imbicile. What s stupid statement to make.