The scariest part of flying

[kevmusic]

For some it's the stall, or steep turns. Or maybe the landing. Well, I've got my PPL, been aerobatted and everything else, ant there's never been anything I've worried about but yesterday I confronted something which has been nagging at me for some years, but which I knew I was going to have to tackle some day. Because I am interested in old aeroplanes. And you don't even get in to do it. I am talking about prop-swinging.

Yesterday I was at the Tiger Club when there were very few people there. I was there to help out - I don't feel ready to fly yet - and someone was needed to swing the Cub's prop. Nettle. Grasp.

Now I feel that if I had started swinging props years ago - I was shown how to do it by the fireman at Sunderland, in 1981 - I would never have built up a 'thing' about it. but I didn't, and I have. Chris Bellhouse gave me a great breifing a few months ago and we swung various 'dead' props in and out of the hangar, but all of a sudden I was needed to do the job.

I must say, I felt confident. I knew the routine, having been on the pilot's end so many times, and the Cub's prop is within easy reach and light. We primed, sucked in and went for it; but it was a cold day and she wouldn't fire. So we switched off, I swung through to clear the cylinders, then we tried again. All the time I had been pulling through I was rehearsing my movements, particularly being aware of the natural pull towards the blades. One pull- nothing. Another pull and she fired. Suddenly, the disc was right in front of me and that's when I had the shock of fear. Suppose I hadn't got my hand out of the way in time? Suppose I fell forward? Uugh. Anyway, I'd done it and I had to move on to the chocks.

So there it was....my first prop swing, and a totally unremarkable success...........until the next time!! :sad:

[mary meagher]

keymusic, you ought to get yourself across the briny and visit Jack Brown's Seaplane base in Winter Haven, Florida.....the technique for starting the engines of the cute little yellow J-3 cub is always the same, as they don't have batteries and all those modern doodahs....

You untie the aircraft from the dock. The student is sitting in the front. You step out on the float beside your student, and pull the prop through from behind. Works a treat.

In the UK, once or twice we've had to hand prop my Super Cub. I prefer to sit inside and give suggestions, while a nice tall young man (sometimes not even young, Derek Piggot pulled my prop a while back) stands in the right place, one arm behind his back (only lose one that way) and gives it a good yank. Of course there are MASSIVE CHOCKS!

[The Old Fat One]

The scariest part of flying is the the drive to and from the airport.

PS

Air to air refueling in a Nimrod used to scare the crap out of me.

[Miserlou]

I always found, no, still find, the scariest bit is the bill!!!

[AdamFrisch]

Many things scare me with it.

•The thought of a structural failure or a main spar failure is probably the scariest one.

•Uneven flap extraction and a snap roll at low level. This is why I check flap connectors even more rigorously than ailerons.

•Descent through IMC layer in hilly terrain with an engine failure.

•Single engine over long water stretches.

•Single engine fire.

•Blade separation in a twin.

But as usual, one manages those fears.

[Rod1]

Reading this foum:E

Rod1

[The Flying Chicken]

The bank statement.

[Pilot DAR]

Are we talking about what you fear is going to happen while flying, or the sudden realization of what just happened? There is a difference!

The fear of what is going to (or could) happen will recede as your experience grows, as with increased experience, fewer things should seem to be out of the ordinary. Or at least as far out of the ordinary.... However, a good dose of fear is a useful life saver, and should never be ignored! Ideally, your fear causing you to not do something, will shift to your wisdom causing you not to do it!

Fear of what just happened is quite different.... It gets you some time later, when the whole picture sinks in, and you realize how close you came. I have had that a few too many times (including the only time I have ever damaged an aircraft - while hand propping one).

Those are the ones you must recall, and share, in the hope that others learn before they do it too! It is a certainty that I have the proverbial angle on my shoulder, for all the things I have gotten away with in airplanes, which I should never have. The best I can do is to remind others why they may not be so lucky, and approach with great caution!

Things I remember most, which scared me after that fact.....

I was a 16 year old passenger in a Cessna 150, at night, over the cloud, with airframe ice, which the pilot spun.

I was the pilot of a Cessna 303 (fully deice equipped) which had a factory design flaw (later corrected by AD) and in icing conditons, it tried to swap ends at cruise speed, and worsened when I slowed down.

I was the co pilot of a Twin Otter over the south of France in August, falling out of control because of airframe ice

'seems to be a theme there...

I was the pilot of a Cessna 180 floatplane, which had a flap track separeate on a water touch and go, and the flaps jammed at 20 degrees.

I was the pilot of a Cessna 206 with a trim rigging error, which required an estimated 50 pound push to maintain level flight

I was the pilot of a Cessna 185 floatplane with a rudder system mis-installation, which caused it to want to sawp ends at any speed

Another theme...

I guess I'd say I'm afraid of unmanagable icing encounters, and control system failures. In each of the afore mentioned situations, I had enough time to ask myself "is this the flight which is going to kill me?" (though with the C 206, not much time!)

On the other hand, two weeks ago, I did a series of flight test spins in a Cessna Grand Caravan with an external load. I feared doing it somewhat, but it was all planned and briefed, and ultimately not scary at all! I later mathed out the maximum rate of descent - 9200 FPM!

It is wise to always have some fear, but make sure it's informed fear, and properly managed...

[Pugilistic Animus]

I think that in aviation we all have been at one point or another a little Yellow....:\

:uhoh:

[englishal]

The scariest flying moment - or rather the most stressful - was bringing a PA12 sea plane back into the dock with an FAA examiner onboard, with a brisk wind trying to blow us off the dock and some kids deciding to be messing around in a boat right where I wanted to be....I had to decide where to cut the engine and drift, and I had just buggered my neck getting in the thing so did the whole flight test in pain! Luckily the FAA examiner jumped out of the back seat and onto the jetty to stop us drifting off and it all worked fine and I didn't chop up any kids (and I passed the test).

Other than that, the seaplane rating is the most fun flying I have ever done!

[Morrisman1]

The scariest thing flying where I am is the indians from another flight school, If they make a position report the safest place to be is where they said they are, and at their altitude!!

One of them managed to travel 20Nm in 4 minutes in.... a 152! Another wasn't allowed to take off because he couldn't find the runway, although we can laugh at the pilots, i think the joke is on the instructors who let them go solo.

edit, just add a disclaimer: Yes I have stuffed up too in the past, nobody is perfect (but this group stands out as the 'have-no-idea' personality)

[IO540]

The thing which scares me most is taxiing :)

I had a close encounter with a pothole (£20k) very early on and remain very aware that airfield maintenance is often below a reasonable level.

[Cows getting bigger]

Single engine night/IMC/fog/ice, especially where two or more of the aforementioned factors combine.

Other pilots who appear not to understand the concept of airmanship. Particularly those that call lining-up at an uncontrolled airfield without noticing I'm on short final.

[kevmusic]

PilotDAR,
Are we talking about what you fear is going to happen while flying, or the sudden realization of what just happened? There is a difference! I think my fear falls into both categories. I was afraid of what might happen, before the event, and I was afraid of what might have happened after it!

[Pace]

Anytime you are not in control!!! I am not talking about the aeroplane. The Fear goes when you gain that control back.

"The only man who is truly free is the one who is free from fear"

Pace

[Lister Noble]

Kev,good to see you on here.
I fly a hand swing A65 Cub.
Some prop from behind,holding onto the door frame,others from the front.
I'm nearly always on my own,and there are no parking brakes.
I hand swing from the front.

I chock,tie stick back,no throttle,switches off,prime 1-2 pumps according to weather,then pull through 6 blades,switch 1 on,still no throttle and she normally starts first time.
Some people say the tail should be anchored.
I think the most important thing is not to be distracted,also to be balanced and step away on the prop swing.
Lster

[johnny3star]

Lster,

Have you ever lost a digit ?

Zulu Echo

[Lister Noble]

Zlu Eco,
Have you,terrrible feeling;)

[Lister Noble]

Just noticed you are based in God's County,are you north or south?

[maxred]

I always feared losing my comms at a critical moment, and it happened on Wednesday, flying a club aircraft. Middle of the control zone, on handover from radar to the tower, lost the lot!!
Circled over the city as we tried to figure out the confusing picture, did not get comms back, eventually 7600 on the transponder, full-blown emergency now, managed to get one way transmit on approach frequency, and brought in to land with all traffic ops on hold - 5.00 at night.

I have looked back at the incident, and it looks as though we handled it well, and I am glad it has now happened and I have experienced it, but I was a bit panicked and confused for a spell as I tried to 'get the picture':confused:

[trex450]

for me one of the most worrying times is getting the "leans" when single pilot IFR without autopilot when you know that you have no choice but to get over it because you have a good amount of time before being VMC again. The biggest fear has to be a fire onboard that means getting on the ground asap!

[IO540]

In flight fire would be the worst thing. However it is most likely to be electrical and very likely to go out if you pull the main CB.

That's why I carry a battery powered GPS (two actually; the 2nd one would fetch zilch on Ebay and might be handy in the life raft...) and an Icom radio. I bought the Icom radio the day after I got a radio failure during a pre-PPL solo flight. I know one can fly non-radio but some things in life have a really trivial solution so why make life hard?

[Echo Romeo]

I'm with the 'Flying Chicken' the bank balence.

[thing]

I don't like flying gliders that have just been rigged, even if I've checked the connectors a half dozen times. I don't know why particularly, it's just one of those things with me, I'd much rather someone else flew them first in case any important parts fall off..........

I also don't like those sunny hazy summer days that look great from the ground but are like flying in a goldfish bowl once you're airborne. I like to see where I'm going.

Edit: I also feel distinctly uneasy in helicopters. They should have sticking out wings as well that don't move like proper aeroplanes IMO.

[SkyHawk-N]

The scariest thing about flying is how quickly things can go from fully under control to disaster if you make the wrong decisions.

[maxred]

Yes, Skyhawk, I think that can sum it up. Several apparently minor issues can very quickly add up to a full scale disaster. A perfectly routine flight, can all of a sudden end up difficult when something 'unexpected' happens. We ''train'' for it all to happen, and go flying when hopefully we have assessed everything, and the flight goes to plan.

The issues start, when of course, things screw up. The decision process begins. I once did a really stupid thing. I was flying from Bournmouth into Halfpenny Green, when about 35 miles to run,following the good old magenta, my GPS quit. Guess what, my map was in the back, and I could not reach it. I had not been to that airfield before. Weather was deteriorating, and the wind had picked up.

I then began calculating my drift, calculating everything to try and guide me to the destination. I remember not having the slightest clue where I actually was, and if my track would get me there. Oh, I was also tight on fuel.

I remembered that flight and vowed never to do that again..

[EddieHeli]

The scariest things that have happened to me which were frightening at the time but worse later during the night when I woke up in a cold sweat at what might have happened was having a couple of near miss midair collisions.

First was climbing out at an airfield during type conversion familiarisation training and at 100ft hearing then seeing an RAF Phantom go underneath me, just above the tree tops. I immmediatley spun my head around to look for his wingman, who went just overhead me. After landing we rang Newcastle Radar to report it . They said they thought there had been a collision as they saw the dots coincide on the radar. We carried on flying for the rest of the day without really thinking much about it. When we got back in the evening the airfield operator told us the RAF pilots had rung up to apologise, they had been doing low level chasing and had drifted off course by 5 miles and cut through our circuit. I woke up in a cold sweat in the middle of that night.

The other time was on final approach to an airfield in a Twin Comanche when my wife yelled lookout and I saw the wheels of a Piper Arrow appear in my windscreen. I dived and banked away and went around for another go.
I was coming in on the normal approach slope and he had gone around the circuit and came in over the top of me without seeing me as I was below his line of sight. He was above me so I didn't see him either.
It didn't help that there were three training aircraft also in the circuit which was only air ground and when I called 2 ahead final to land, he though he was the second and I was behind him.
Didn't sleep much that night either.

Funnily enough when I had in flight problems I didn't have time to worry, just got on with the drills and they became non events.
Wheels stuck half down in the Twin Com on approach to Newcastle.
Complete Loss of Electrics in the Twin Com climbing out of Oxford through Brize.
Complete Loss of Electrics in a Robinson R44 just outside Gloucester.

[Floppy Link]

Scariest thing....

Knowing that one day I'll eventually lose my medical. Hope to be 134 when it happens though...:E

[Genghis the Engineer]

Scariest thing....

Knowing that one day I'll eventually lose my medical. Hope to be 134 when it happens though...:E

From Wikipedia, which I think copied it verbatim from the Daily Telegraph Obituary for Neville Duke

On 7 April 2007, the couple were flying their private aircraft when Duke became ill. He landed safely at Popham Airfield, but collapsed as he left the aircraft. He was taken by ambulance to hospital in Basingstoke where he was diagnosed as suffering from an aneurysm. He was transferred to St Peter's Hospital in Chertsey, Surrey, and died later that same evening after an operation, at the age of 85.

So, he technically never lost his medical since I don't think he was in hospital enough even for automatic suspension! I think that they were flying a Cherokee 140.

G

[BackPacker]

I think it's been twice now that I flew an aerobatics sortie on an aircraft, which coincidentally happened to be the last sortie of that aircraft before it went in for a routine check. During those two checks they subsequently found beginning hairline fractures or corrosion in things like engine mounts and rudder hinge brackets. Enough to cause the aircraft to be grounded for weeks while stuff was being re-welded or replaced.

Always makes me wonder what other defects have not yet been found, or are currently developing, while I pull another 4G.

I also had a near miss on climbout. This was one of my first solo flights (might've been my QXC even), in controlled airspace (class D) where a PA28 strayed across the upwind leg, fortunately some 20 feet above my flight path. I sometimes still see the whites of their eyes in my dreams. Then, I was simply too stunned even to file an airprox report. Come to think about it, I don't think I even discussed it with my instructor afterwards.

[thing]

Yeah reading about the airmisses brings to mind a few. Closest I had was coming off the top of the wire head on with another glider, we both banked right and missed each each other by literally feet. I had another in cct, rule was in RH cct you took the runway, LH you took the grass, I was LH for the grass as I turned base at the same time as another glider who I had in full view. Expecting him to take the runway I flogged on down base for my turn onto the grass thinking 'He's a bit late turning into the runway' when of course he hadn't seen me and was going for my grass.
Rather full deflection of rudder and stick followed.

The duty instructor had to hold me back when I landed...

My old man always taught me when I was learning to drive to treat every road user as a complete idiot, I always apply that to flying now.


Edit: Of course I forgot about the two Tucanos that nearly wiped me out above Newark, but hey, RAF, probably on some urgent mission.

[Pilot DAR]

I've had a few near collisions. The most alarming occured while I was flying a night search over our local lake, in my capacity as a firefighter. I had called the Armed Forces to assist, and they had dispatched a C 130, and Cormorant rescue helicopter. I had informed the C-130 pilot of my presence there, and altitude, and he had acknoledged.

While I orbited over our fireboat at 500 feet up, to allow the armed forces aircraft to use their more advanced search equipment, The helicopter flew directly under me, (I had lights on, he did not - later citing the need for darkness to use his night vision!) All I saw were his heat signatures agaist the reflected moonlight on the lake. I have no idea how close he came to me, but I never saw him.

He reported not having seen me, when I called to complain the next day. I reminded him that we were both in uncontrolled airspace, and he is required to display lights for night flying. This was apparently not their normal procedure! They also reported that they were not TCAS equipped - I found that very alarming too!

[thing]

A pal of mine is a senior captain for BA. As he says, the way we avoid collisions is to shove everybody into a ten mile wide corridor............

[IO540]

I don't think he was in hospital enough even for automatic suspension!A bit of a tangent but would not an admission to hospital with chest pains amount to an immediate grounding?

As he says, the way we avoid collisions is to shove everybody into a ten mile wide corridor............ You forgot the 2nd part: they then spend £££££looooads on an ATC system to keep them separated :)

I've had a few close shaves with traffic; maybe 50m. For me, the general idea is to get away from the circuit with maximum haste, spend the minimum time in it, and if it is busy with half a dozen "in the circuit" I come back 15 mins later.

Enroute, OCAS, I fly at "funny" altitutes like 3300ft, 3700ft, 4300ft, 4700ft, etc, never below 2000ft, always VMC on top if CAS permits (almost never seen any GA up there). There is a massive increase in traffic density below about 1500ft AGL and this is reflected in the UK midair stats.

I also rarely fly at night - something governed by my base's closing time which is too early for most of the year to log night time.

[172driver]

The other time was on final approach to an airfield in a Twin Comanche when my wife yelled lookout and I saw the wheels of a Piper Arrow appear in my windscreen. I dived and banked away and went around for another go.
I was coming in on the normal approach slope and he had gone around the circuit and came in over the top of me without seeing me as I was below his line of sight. He was above me so I didn't see him either.
It didn't help that there were three training aircraft also in the circuit which was only air ground and when I called 2 ahead final to land, he though he was the second and I was behind him.

Which is why it's a good idea to include the type and possibly even color of your a/c when approaching a non-towered field. Doesn't necessarily mean the stude in the circuit knows what a Twin Comanche looks like, but he may understand that it's probably not the PA28 in front.

[Floppy Link]

Wise words IO. When I had my single seater homebuilt I had exactly the same philosophy about the circuit, especially coming back in - the view out past the cowling was pretty restricted and the landing could be "exciting." Had to fly a consistent circuit with a curved approach starting from 500ft downwind with the aileron hinge line on the runway to have any hope of success - if the circuit had more than two aircraft in it I went away and came back later.

Nearest miss was tootling along in a PA28 with the LHS pilot on instruments. I saw her flinch and we heard the roar. An F15E passed directly over the top of us with about 100ft separation on exactly the same heading. We were in his blind spot and he was in ours. We never saw a wingman. :\ Just as well we were slightly low. (Her IF is much better now - she's a 50 seat turboprop Captain)

[AdamFrisch]

I've had some close calls in the air. In fact, it's happened so many times I think I'm either cursed or blind!

Last time was just coming back towards Lydd via the coast. I decided to do a gentle left turning descent towards Spilsted Farm strip to see if the YAK was there. Suddenly I see a 152 right in front of me and my left turn is cutting his path. It's too late to do any right avoiding maneuver. So I just pushed the yoke forward and dived out from under his path. It was in G and in LARS blind spot - Farnborough drops you east of Beachy Head and Manston don't pick up until you're into Kent - so no way of knowing who it was. I blame myself for that one, though. My scan was too relaxed and I should have spotted him.

Before that it was above Fullerton airport in California at night, which is smack in the middle of the Los Angeles basin. Just cleared the high TV mast there and turned towards LAX (you have to be on your toes here with the varying Bravo airspace so you don't bust) when what looked like a Mooney gave us a haircut just about 50ft above. I don't think he ever saw us. Even though the D airspace resorts to E when the tower is closed, he should have announced on the freq.

On a trip up to Elstree early this summer with great weather, I'm just out of the funnel around Dartford and Stapleford with traffic everywhere. I catch the last glimpses of what looks like a Zodiac just below me. Uncomfortably close. Then as I turn left to join Estree, I manage to not see yet another 152 and I cut right in front of him. My bad. I bet he called me names.

VFR can be hairy at times.:ouch:

[stickandrudderman]

I'm scared right now..
I've just come back from the hanger where I was pulling apart my recently aquired LAA type. Out of curiosity I decided to lift a false floor and discovered that the rudder cable was hooked over a bolt, and evidently had been ever since the plane was built. The remarkable thing is that it was the bolt that was worn and not the cable (although I'll be fitting a new one anyway!):\

[IO540]

An F15E passed directly over the top of us with about 100ft separation on exactly the same heading. We were in his blind spot and he was in ours. We never saw a wingman.

I thought an F15 would have radar.

[A and C]

The number of people who have never seen an aircraft flight manual.......let alone opend the pages of one!

[Lister Noble]

I'm not sure all RAF/USAF fighters have radar?
Not much use here when I'm flying at 500 feet and they are at 200.;)

[Wildpilot]

Trying to get back to my home airport in the wet season in in Africa in a 206, fighting my way around lines of huge thunder storms amongst lightening, heavy rain and turbulannce. Then getting struck by lightening behind the rear window which made a entry hole and blew all the recently replaced static wicks off.

Very grateful to be on the ground and hour later.

[mary meagher]

Three times, over my career.

During a gliding competition, flown at Weston on the Green (the parachutists had gone away for the 9 days), towing up a ASW19 flown by a young naval pilot, - and the comp had been notammed - observed heading directly toward us, a twin out of Oxford Kidlington. So I turned right.

And the twin turned left. Thanks a bunch! All I could do now was dive, with the glider on tow. YOU DO NOT LET GO, because then there would be three separate aircraft dodging each other. The Navy pilot hung on boldly, he said later while making his witness statement, that he wanted full value of his 2,000 tow! In this case, the separation may have been 200 feet vertical, and if anybody had been watching on radar, we would definitely have blended on the screen. My main reaction was anger.

Another time, I saw the other aircraft at our altitude, heading directly for us, he saw us when I turned right, and did the correct action....nevertheless the following week I was able to locate and talk to the PIC, who had been occupied supervising a learner under the hood.

And can you beat it, on the third occasion, the opposition once again was supervising a learner under the hood, never saw us at all, and after we discovered who it was, lied about it. Of course, my witness was again the glider on tow, in fact this time the glider saved our bacon, because he saw the other guy and told me about it on the radio. I still couldn't see the other aircraft, so the glider pilot said, very very firmly, Turn RIGHT, NOW!!!!
Which I did. That time my knees did turn to jelly afterward. The glider pilot told me later that he had been planning what to do after the collision.

[ShyTorque]

Many years ago I was flying as a student in an RAF Whirlwind helicopter. Towards the end of the sortie we were unexpectedly asked by ATC to go to search a particular area for an fixed wing aircraft whose pilot had called a Mayday (didn't find it, turned out they were actually many miles away in Snowdonia and had already crashed).

The SAR Wessex was on its way from RAF Valley to take over from us; we were almost out of fuel. To assist the crew to find us quickly, so they could resume from where we left off, I switched on our searchlight. Immediately I did so, a Jaguar appeared right in front of us, head on but entering a hard right turn, same level. Not only did we see it but we immediately heard it over our own aircraft noise and we smelt his exhaust fumes as there was no time to avoid his jet wake; we were bounced around by it as it passed just off to our left. It was a very close shave and it was investigated by the RAF. The Jaguar was not allowed to fly in our helicopter LFA; he shouldn't actually have been there. The pilot said he didn't see us, only the searchlight. He immediately pulled hard to avoid us and thought he had probably hit us anyway. We were both hidden from each other by a thin layer of haze on the inversion.

Another time I was invited to fly some aerobatics with a new aquaintance in a Steen Skybolt. I sat in the front seat. Our flight consisted almost entirely of aeros and went without incident. The next time that aircraft flew it never came back. It crashed and burned in the same spot we had flown over, killing my new aquaintance, who had been in the front seat where I had previously been. The AAIB report put the accident down to a loose article (torch battery) jamming the rudder during a botched stall turn / spin recovery. The loose article must already have been in the aircraft during my flight. Too close for comfort.

[PapaNovGolf]

Close calls. :oh:

[Pilot DAR]

My normal "fly to work" route, which is 20 minutes of flying, I fly about three times a week. It is across a quiet piece of Ontario, where one might not see or hear another plane in a week's flying. So, one can get complacent about traffic.

Months back, while flying home, I was trying to ward off complacency by looking around effectively. Suddenly from behind the doorpost blind spot passed a 185 floatplane. Not really close, but attention getting... It reminded me of the need for vigilence, even in this very quiet airspace. Not 5 minutes later, a 182 emerged from behind the doorpost! Again, no real risk, but a firm reminder!

[mary meagher]

Pilot DAR, I wonder if you had been flying at an altitude that was NOT eccentric? I prefer to fly at peculiar altitudes when in open airspace, eg. 1,700' instead of 2,000'.

And the opposition does tend to hide behind the doorpost, especially in a Warrior.....

[AN2 Driver]

Scariest part of flying?

waiting for the next EASA directive coming out which might, at the scratch of a pencil do one or more of the following:


Wipe out your medical
Define new minimum requirements for your airplane class/rating which are impossible to finance/meet
Wipe out N-reg in Europe confirmed
All of the above.

[1800ed]

Going anywhere near EGTB at 'going home time' after a nice sunny day can be rather interesting sometimes. I don't really feel comfortable flying in close proximity to other aircraft!

[mad_jock]

For me its when there is microlights and GA all mixing at an uncontrolled field.

Perth is a prime example.

All fixed wing no probs, all microlight no probs.

Mix them together with loads of students about and my arse starts twitching.

Add in a red Pitts and pull up a chair and watch the show.

[John R81]

Realising - a split second before it happened - that the helicopter I was student (not flying) in was about to undertake topiary on an oak tree.

And yes, that was expensive.

Sitting in my machine at the hover awaiting take-off clearance, watching an EC120 student / instructer combo fluff then save an auto from about 50m distance only for that other machine then to "dig-in" and nose-over. I couldn't figure out where to hide from the shrapnell that would result from the blade impact. It didn't happen - blades came within a foot of the ground, though.

[Mr Cessna]

MID AIR COLLISION! I will say no more! Or having negative visual with someone who is close to you in the circuit :uhoh:

[maxred]

Well put MJ - I reckon Perth is one of the most dangerous airfields - anywhere, to enter the circuit. Everyone who has experienced it agrees. You forgot the bloke that flies with the wee dug as co-pilot. He is a beautiful law unto himself. Add him:\Then the procedural twins - add them:\You mentioned the Pitts - he's in:\Then the rotary boys - add them:\the the aerobatic f****** gyro copter - add him, then the ultralights, microlights, and oh, the balloon, dont forget that:rolleyes:

All on positional calls - those that actually care - when Gerry is off for a cuppa.

Yep, watch the show. A bummer when your in it:ouch:

[BackPacker]

Sounds like Lelystad. And yes, Lelystad scares me too.

They've been talking about giving Lelystad full ATC (it's the Dutch equivalent of A/G now) for years now but the locals recon that it'll cut down capacity by half.:eek:

[maxred]

How many runways at Lelystad? Perth has three, and yes I have witnessed all three in action at the same time:ouch:

[mad_jock]

Mate when I saw a cunning plan for me to take a jetstream in there on a Sat for painting my arse dropped.

135 knts on approach with double figures of useless fuds in the sky. 130 knts and the DV window open with a shotgun out both sides was a consideration.

[maxred]

That may be the one that never made it back out. The one in Mr Fry's hanger per chance:hmm:

[BackPacker]

One normal, one 400m for microlights (parallel to the main one, with opposite circuits, fortunately) and helicopters practicing autorotations in between the main runway and parallel taxiway.

So I guess Perth wins.

[mad_jock]

There is a jetstream stuck in Perth?

Go and find out the airframe number ( it should be on a plate just inside the door) if its been sitting around for a couple of years i can use the parts.

No I didnt take it in. It would have been private flight only. I think one got painted there 7 year ago though (G-UIST).

Perth is a f:mad:ing nightmare and the boys on Ag are utter stars dealing with the utter arseholes on freq

[tom775257]

I find check rides scary.... tomorrows fun.

My scariest moments so far:
EFATO PA-28 with restart in the glide, no nice field to land in
Seneca engine fire on landing
Large Vne bust whilst sat on back seat PA-28, I was sure the wings would come off in the recovery.
Cessna172 control column mounting come loose in flight
Full avionics / radio failure PA-28 way out over the bay of Biscaye
Tailpipe fire A321, APU turned off (fuel saving) with 210 pax still onboard.
Proper windshear A320
Flying into a non-radar painting CB A321 at night
Severe turbulence A321
Captain loosing the plot on a go around A320

I am always amazed how quickly things can go from fine to life threatening in such a short period of time.

[mary meagher]

Tom, did you actually have all those episodes for real? or were they thrown at you during the check ride in the sim?

[Lister Noble]

Mary your comment re sim,I often wonder that on this site,no not you!:)

[G_STRING]

Bloody hell - remind me never to go to Perth !!

[gasax]

Perth is fine! To all those who state that an overhead join is 'dangerous', try spotting all three aircraft who are calling 'finals' on three different runways and the non-radio traffic, adding in the rotary approachs onto the various thresolds - then add in the locals who announce a 'low approach and go around'!

There are times when when a wee trip along the Tay, for "traffic spacing" makes a lot of sense!!!

[Final 3 Greens]

My scariest was landing at an airfield on the edge of LA, in a light single, only to discover that an oil seal had failed and most of the engine oil had drained out of the bottom of the engine compartment.

At the rate it was leaking, seizure was only minutes away.

And I had no idea there was a problem.

I got away with that one.

[mary meagher]

Lister Noble, not me! All my frights have been real ones!

The two most serious were my fault, due to impatience and showing off.

Number 1. Impatient, waiting for the 2 pilots in the K13 to pull their finger out, and for the wingtip holder and retrieve vehicles to get on with it, took off with a jerk, and then wondered why the rate of climb was much worse than usual.....glanced at the instruments,no problem there, engine sounded fine. Looked in the rear view mirror of the Tug and realised that the K13 had the airbrakes full open on tow!...and my airplane only a Supercub 150! Only just managed to scrape over the hill with speed down to 45 knots, didn't dare to signal to the glider with the recommended rudder wag, for obvious reasons. Climbed, barely, to 300' and then, because I was so scared, I dumped the glider. Landed back. The glider did NOT land back....they ended up in the valley, complete with towrope and brakes still unnoticed and open! No damage, nobody hurt.

Number 2. Impatient again, this time with a gallery of spectators, took up slack when the wingtip holder, who was an Instructor, signaled to proceed.
So I trusted him and didn't look at the Winch Launchpoint. As it was a light glider on tow, I climbed straight out, instead of the usual right turn toward an open track. And then saw the parachute on the descending winch cable not 20 feet away from my right wingtip. I didn't want to return. I just wanted to leave altogether and never come back. But towed the Libelle to 2,000' and came back to face the music. The CFI nearly had a heart attack watching the close call. As did everybody else who knew enough to realise what was nearly happening...

We've made some changes; radio is used. Though it might not be reached in time. And Tug Pilots are warned sternly never never never takeoff without a Good Look at the Winch Launchpoint. Trust NOBODY. LOOKOUT, LOOKOUT, LOOKOUT!

[PotentialPilot]

First flight in a glider.. Hearing the almighty BANG from the cable release.. Which I was not breifed about. Soon got used to in the end.

and

Leaning out the left side of a puma that turns left without warning.

From my experiences anyway.

I'd like to experience an auto-rotate.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

The scariest thing flying where I am is the indians from another flight school, If they make a position report the safest place to be is where they said they are, and at their altitude!!

One of them managed to travel 20Nm in 4 minutes in.... a 152! Another wasn't allowed to take off because he couldn't find the runway, although we can laugh at the pilots, I think the joke is on the instructors who let them go solo.

edit, just add a disclaimer: Yes I have stuffed up too in the past, nobody is perfect (but this group stands out as the 'have-no-idea' personality)


I HAVE to laugh at this I was in the same situation late last year (I wonder if its the same flying school) I was in the air and listening out when two 'foreign' students in two separate A/C both reported their positions as over XYZ VRP and at 1500ft, They then both started vigorously confirming their positions back and fourth! I looked over at said VRP and could not see either A/C.

Now bear in mind this is a coastal VRP and very prominent, it found it a little odd, after proceeding on track I sited one of the A/C at least 10NM from the VRP I did a 180 and promptly went and played in another valley.

Now I'm not saying anything about the ability of foreign students but I gotta say they have some issues with RT and VFR Nav ... and sometimes runway orientation (orientate the plate to north, RWY 12 is actually RWY30 !!!)

[Dan Winterland]

Single engine at night. I didn't do it - except with a parachute.

I was once told of the best forced landing technique to be used off-airfied at night. You just glide straight ahead until the altimeter reads 200'. Then you put the landing light on. If you don't like what you see, turn it off again!

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I was doing some night flying a few months ago, and i was wondering were i would go if the whirring thing stopped, i saw a flood lit sports feild about 5NM north of the airfeild and thought that would be best, the issue is i know tress ring the field so you have to land ACROSS the field and not down it. Driving past same feild during the day i saw the LARGE WHITE junction boxes in between each of the lighting stands, exactly where i would have postiong the A/C had i needed to,... made me a little queasy.

[ShyTorque]

took off with a jerk, and then wondered why the rate of climb was much worse than usual

I've flown with jerks like this, too.

[tom775257]

Mary:

All for real. Seneca engine fire (after landing) we followed the drills it went out. A321 tailpipe fire again once APU fired up we followed the drill it soon went out.

[AfricanEagle]

My biggest fear is losing a wing or the tail feathers during a normal flight because someone before me badly mishandled the aeroplane and not being able to have control.:(

Not scared of the bank account anymore: the bank manager has got used to it :p

[Floppy Link]

I reckon Perth is one of the most dangerous airfields - anywhere, to enter the circuit. Everyone who has experienced it agrees

Not exactly true. I don't. Have to agree with gasax, Perth is fine. Was based there for a while in the aforementioned single seater P47 replica, did my R22 type rating there a few years back and nowadays occasionally stop in for fuel with the yellow EC135.

Perth is great. Although it was near there that the F15 incident happened, also I had a deer run across 21 from the central triangle towards the woods as I was landing...the tail was down so I all I could do was sit and wait for the crunch, which never happened.

[Pugilistic Animus]

In flight fire would be the worst thing.

that's possibly every aviator's worst fear, of all time

[Redbird72]

I agree with the added fear factor of mixing with microlights; my biggest scare to date was arriving at a small airfield's circuit on my first post qual flight to find that 20-odd french microlights had also chosen it as their destination :ooh:

I allowed myself to put too much of my attention into looking out (they all seemed to be aiming for the runway at various heights and from half a dozen different directions) and let my speed get horribly low. Had to leave the circuit for 10 mins to regain my composure, and by the time I returned, most of them were on the ground and sanity was restored.

[Helicopterdriverguy]

Not necessarily scary but i have to mention when i was coming in 29 one time at Breighton, This autogyro decides to be a **** and lines up and starts spinning his rotors up from 0. Not recognizing the shape i'm beginning to get worried going under 400ft and a go around was made. Bottom line is, Be a gent and make sure no traffic is approaching if you're going to spin up on the active :ok:.

[sevenstrokeroll]

scariest part of flying...PAYING FOR IT.

[oxo]

On a winch site check ride in the north of england, glider ASK-13.

Very windy on the ground and a substantial wind gradient to climb through. Instructor in the back says to not worry about the launch speed being high, but when it goes through 65 knots at a rate of increase about 3 knot/sec, I pull the cable release, about 300 ft. Note that max winch speed on a 13 is 58 knots

Idiot instructor then grabs control and turns back to land instead of putting it down straight ahead. I thought we'd had it then.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I spoke with a guy today who hit a rotor off the lee side of a mountain last week in his wood wing Bellanca... Once he was upside down he reversed the aileron controls and went through the full roll. I don't know about you but that would scare me...

I had that a few years ago going to Caernarfon, flying in the lee of the Snowdonia hills. I didn'y actually get inverted, but I was quite unable to control the aeeroplane; we were tossed around in all 3 axis and the controls were pretty much ineffective in trying to keep the Chippy straight and level. So severe was the disturbed air that wisps of cloud were forming and dissipating around us in the rapidly changing air pressure of the rotor.

Eventually it spat us out. We landed at Caernarfon shortly afterwards and the surface wind was a few knots; the windsock was hanging down the pole. That's why I hadn't expected rotor - no wind!

There must have been some odd metreological conditition funneling air over the hills in a venturi because there sure was wind causing that rotor!

[thing]

:ooh: Crikey, Caernarfon is on my list of places 'to do' next spring and my route will take me straight over Snowdonia. What height were you at and looking back would you have stayed upwind of the hills?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Crikey, Caernarfon is on my list of places 'to do' next spring and my route will take me straight over Snowdonia. What height were you at and looking back would you have stayed upwind of the hills?

Looking back, with a surface wind of < 5kts at Caernarfon, no I wouldn't have done anything different (why would I?). On the way back, I routed well west over Anglesey to remain clear of any rotor. Caernarfon is a regular run for me and I've never known that before with almost zero surface wind. You can't get there if you stay upwind of the hills in an easterly. :E

Flying over Snowdon is fine, but I wouldn't do it in high winds or lowish cloud.

[thing]

You can't get there if you stay upwind of the hills in an easterly. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif



You could take the long way around...:)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

You could take the long way around...

There is no way round to get there in an easterly while staying upwind of the hills. The field itself is downwind of the hills in such a wind!

[thing]

I was thinking more of the great circle route long way around.....;)

[India Four Two]

who hit a rotor off the lee side of a mountain

I had a friend who was extremely experienced tow-pilot (he stopped counting his tows, but it must have been over 10,000). We were discussing rotor-turbulence at Cowley - a wave-site just downwind of the front-range of the Rocky Mountains in southern Alberta.

His comment was "it's not rough until you get rolled inverted on tow!" I never had an experience like that, but came very close.:eek:

[SkyHawk-N]

It's not good enough to look at surface winds next to areas of higher terrain, check winds aloft as well. They will give you an indication of the general direction of the air and whether or not to expect leeward turbulence. It takes a bit of experience to work out how the air will be deflected and channeled by the hills and mountains, so it is worth talking to someone who flies in the area to get their views on what to expect.

It is worth remembering that wind aloft data is not always that accurate around mountain areas though. This year I took off in calm surface conditions from my home airport which is located next to a mountain range only to meet an unforecast/unexpected 40kt+ wind jet at 300ft on the climbout. This gets your attention.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Many years ago a friend of mine was instructing at night in a C150 over the Peak District, talking to Manchester who were reporting negligable surface wind. They noticed a considerable and increasing rate of descent which could not be arrested even with full power.

My friend took control, reduced speed right back to minimum, and they impacted the lee side of Kinder Scout. The aeroplane was wrecked but they survived with minor injuries. They had been caught in strong sink downwind of the hill, despite the few knots of surface wind at Manchester.

[Pegpilot]

How about unexpected loud noises of any description ? A few years ago I set off on a gliding cross country, but one of my gear doors failed to close when I raised the main wheel. It finally freed itself after 2 hours and snapped shut under bungee tension with a hell of a bang. Certainly woke me up and got the adrenaline running for the next 30 minutes. And how about the dubious privilege that glider pilots have of actually hearing the engine noise of that aircraft right in your blind spot - you crane your neck through 360 degrees and STILL can't find the b*gger - now THAT'S fear !

Cheers all

Pegpilot

[FANS]

For those flying in the UK, the weather is one of the biggest issues.

Training takes forever to wait for good days

Weekend pilots often struggle to get consistency

When the Wx is good, every man and his dog can be out

Questionable Wx can lead people to get up, as it may be even worse when they're next due to fly

For those not flying that regularly, they can then struggle with falling cloud bases and x-winds > 10knts.

It's changeable and makes any kind of distance flying hardwork, which leads to people just flying in their comfort zone of 30 minutes from the field