Fuel Prices...

[Duchess_Driver]

Seem to recall a list somewhere of fuel prices for airfields around the country and some abroad. (can't guarantee it was on here thou!)

Quick search on 'tinternet just bombards me with motoring rises.

Anyone put me out of my misery?

Many thanks

DD

[Johnm]

try the ATIS section at Forums.flyer.co.uk

[pulse1]

Or this one:

www.TheHangar.co.uk - UK AVGAS Price Data (http://www.thehangar.co.uk/fuel/fuel.shtml)

[FlyingStone]

Perhaps you were looking for this (http://tmdg.co.uk/misc/fuel.php)...

[wsmempson]

I think that this is what you're looking for!

FLYER Forums • View topic - Avgas Price League Table (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=51535)

[Captain Smithy]

A list is on the Flyer forum, also I think there's one on UKGA?

Smithy

[chevvron]

Be warned, BP have increased wholesale price of AVGAS by 11p/litre!

[The Old Fat One]

Be warned, BP have increased wholesale price of AVGAS by 11p/litre!


In the words of the song.....

"You ain't seen nothing yet....."

[Echo Romeo]

Ok, what is going on? The oil price has been much lower for nearly 2 months now, the exchange rate is pretty static, there has been no further increases in duty or VAT, petrol/diesel prices have fallen!

But with the exception of a couple of places, notably, Bournemouth and Shoreham the price of Avgas has not come down at all, and incredibly an airfield I visited yesterday have increased the price on last month.

I can't help but feel we're being fleeced, doe's anyone else?

[Captain Smithy]

Affirm.

Petrol/Diesel hasn't come down that much. Both have fell about 4p/litre in the past couple of weeks. Diesel is still ~£1.35/litre in Smithyshire despite a substantial drop in oil prices (compared with what they originally were that forced the price up to said level in the first place). AVGAS is largely static (except when the oil price rises).

What amazes me is the variation in 100LL prices. Motoring stations charge similar amounts unless they're in the middle of nowhere. Not so with 100LL which fluctuates wildly depending on where you are. Bizarre.

Sooner we're all burning JET-A1 the better. Until HMRC finds a way of getting its grubby paws on it.

Smithy.

[flybymike]

I thought the taxman had already found a way of getting his grubby paws on it when used for private flights.

[IO540]

What amazes me is the variation in 100LL prices. Motoring stations charge similar amounts unless they're in the middle of nowhere. Not so with 100LL which fluctuates wildly depending on where you are. Bizarre.

Probably because gross margins on avgas are a lot bigger than the gross margins on petrol, and also there are multiple ways of buying it, with significant volume discounts etc.

For example I know of cases where an aeroclub found they can buy avgas in drums for a lot less than buying it from their local AIR BP supplier.

Whereas a chain petrol station has probably already driven the hardest possible bargain with BP, Texaco, etc. I work on top of one and their margins are amazingly small - of the order of pennies per litre (which I find hard to believe but there you are). Airfields make of the order of 30p/litre gross.

[Captain Smithy]

I suppose a large part of the problem is that engine technology in light aviation remains in a time warp. We still rely on primitive 1930s tech lumps designed to run on a specialist fuel produced in very small quantities of a very high octane which someone decided a long time ago would be a terriffic idea. :hmm: At the same time of this brilliant forward thinking they also decided that said fuel should have additives (Why exactly enquires young Smithy???). Four-star is long gone in motor vehicles and most engines in various vehicles will run happily and reliably with not much loss of performance on lower-octane fuels more widely and cheaply available, without additives at that.

In the 1980s motor vehicles' engines went quickly from leaded 4-Star to running happily on 95 UL, to the extent that 4-Star was phased out comfortably. Throughout the 90s diesels were developed to be smoother, quieter, better performing and infinitely more reliable than their earlier historical variants. So why hasn't aero engine technology developed in the same manner?

The technology is there, the demand is there, oil companies can't be arsed producing 100LL anymore, so what's the problem?

Smithy

[iwrbf]

Hi smithy,

the demand may be there - but there's no market for it.

Try to calculate something for yourself: Count the engines in GA planes. About 1/20 of these will have to be rebuild or exchanged per year. Now build and _certify_ an engine which costs less than the standard Lycosaurus offering at least the same performance...

See? Not that easy anymore, unfortunately.

The SMA diesel will come in some time - via Continental.
The Thielert diesel has come back and will see a revival.
The Austro diesel powers Diamonds.

The eco hype is even funding some hybrid and electric designs.

Kind regards,
Peter

[Rod1]

Avgas 91UL launches in the UK 1st Sept.

FLYER Forums • View topic - Total Avgas UL91 UK launch (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71822&p=983779&hilit=rod1#p983779)

Rod1

[LH2]

Throughout the 90s diesels were developed to be smoother, quieter, better performing and infinitely more reliable than their earlier historical variants.

Yes, and then the price of Diesel went up accordingly to match that of petrol. Nowadays the cars I drive burn between 4.5 - 5.5 lt/100km of Diesel, yet I'm paying more for fuel (inflation adjusted) than when I was driving 10 lt/100km petrol engines. :hmm: