SEP renewal UK

[Notso Fantastic]

Can someone tell me what is required for SEP renewal in the UK for ATPL holders please?

[S-Works]

The same as it is for PPL holders........

Perhaps a little more detail? When did you fly an SEP last?

[Notso Fantastic]

SEP initial rating almost 2 years ago, although very experienced jet time and current ATPL holder.

[FlyingGoat]

Straightforward SEP skills test?

[S-Works]

Jet time and ATPL make no difference for an SEP rating....

You will need to do an LPC.

Where are you based?

[foxmoth]

Just confirm you are renewing for commercial use not just private?
If just using it for PPL privaleges you need to do flight with an instructor and get it signed off by an examiner

[bingofuel]

If he was revalidating, but a renewal requires an LPC with an examiner

[Nearly There]

Im revalidating my SEP this sunday, I have to do a 'skills test' with a PPL/E due to my SEP running out in July 10.
Although I have flown the required 12hrs SEP within the last 12 months 1 of which was with an instructor, but the SEP has lapsed since the last flight, my fault for not getting it signed off earlier.

If your SEP is still current and if you have flown 12 hrs SEP within the last 12 months 1 of which must be with an FI, then a simple sign off.

If not then a flight either with a FI if your SEP is current, if not current a flight with a PPL/E.

[Straight & Level]

Notso Fantastic,

I renewed my SEP rating as a way to renew my UK ATPL a year or so ago. I currently fly a B777, but on a foreign licence and do not have the T7 on my UK licence.

I keep my UK Class 1 Medical current but almost 6 years had passed since I has an LPC on my last UK type (B757) rating, and had therefore expired. The 2 things that are required to renew an ATPL are 1) a current medical and 2) a current type (or class) rating.

I popped my to the UK, went and had a chat with a flying club and found that as it was less than 5 years since my SEP rating had expired, all that was required was 'sufficient' training and a Skills Test (LPC). I recall that I did about 2.5 hours refresher and a 1.5 hour test which consisted of upper air work, some navigation, and a few circuits. Had the SEP rating lapsed for more than 5 years, then the CAA has to issue the rating, rather than the examiner. LASORS will explain everything you need to know, Section F.

Hope that helps.

[IO540]

On a vaguely peripheral topic, what happens if you have a UK issued JAA PPL and you have been revalidating it every 2 years (with an instructor or with an examiner) as usual but have not (probably not ever, for 10 years) sent the 5-yearly payment to the CAA?

Obviously the license is invalid, but can that be fixed by paying up?

Let's assume one has another country's CPL/IR and is flying on that, so nothing illegal is going on.

I reckon this goes on a lot because the CAA does not send out reminders, and a 5 year cycle is a long time to keep track of.

[BackPacker]

because the CAA does not send out reminders

Yes they do. (If you kept them informed about your change of address of course.)

[S-Works]

Obviously the license is invalid, but can that be fixed by paying up?

Yes it can.

Although an examiner signing the Class rating should have picked it up the licence being expired unless its expired after the class rating?

[IO540]

Yes they do. (If you kept them informed about your change of address of course.)

They didn't in my case, and large numbers of others. I recall that at the first 5-year point, which was about 2005, nobody got a reminder. Maybe they started doing them on subsequent expiry periods but they didn't send one out to the earliest JAA license holders like myself.

My renewal was done with a FE in 2009 which was some 8 years after I got the license. I may have sent a payment to the CAA then but have no recollection of it. I will email them...

[mrmum]

As I recall the CAA did not send out reminders at the end of the first 5 years of JAR to the holders of the first issued JAA-PPLs. There were quite a few who forgot/weren't aware they had to renew them. Possibly made worse as the SEP(L) class rating that most of them had would have been revalidated or renewed at the end of years 2, 4 and 6, but none of them had much reason to show their licence to an examiner around the end of year five. There were a few complaints made and the CAA do now seem to be issuing reminders from what I hear. Whether you think that's because they were being helpful and did not wish people to be inadvertently flying illegally, or they realised they were missing out on some fees, which they could ensure they got for the cost of a letter.:E

[Whopity]

On a vaguely peripheral topic, what happens if you have a UK issued JAA PPL and you have been revalidating it every 2 years (with an instructor or with an examiner) as usual but have not (probably not ever, for 10 years) sent the 5-yearly payment to the CAA?

Obviously the license is invalid, but can that be fixed by paying up?Sounds like you have already paid up unnecessarily. Examiners are required to check these things before signing them. An examiner can conduct a test for a person with an invalid licence, but is required to inform the holder that he cannot exercise the privileges. You cannot possibly revalidate a licence by experience if that expedience was gained illegally. All the relevant expiry dates are required on the SRG1119. An instructor cannot revalidate a licence! No breach of the Law can be fixed by paying, unless you are an MP!

[IO540]

I have emailed the CAA to ask them if I have paid up.

This FE did know I am flying on my FAA CPL/IR and I am keeping the UK PPL valid just as an anti-EASA insurance policy. He is very decent and I am sure he would have said something if it was important.

Is there any record anywhere on the license indicating the 5-yearly payment was made i.e. do the CAA send you a receipt, or can the FE check it online?

[madlandrover]

Is there any record anywhere on the license indicating the 5-yearly payment was made i.e. do the CAA send you a receipt, or can the FE check it online?

Yes - a JAR 5 year licence should state somewhere (top of the 3rd page) when the latest you can renew the licence is, ie the expiry date. OTOH, the first few may not have had this bit, merely an issue date! The 5 year payment buys you a new licence with new issue and expiry dates.

[mrmum]

Whopity,

As you say, an examiner can revalidate or renew a SEP(L) class rating if the pilot's JAA-PPL(A) has expired, they cannot however exercise the privileges until their licence has been renewed.

All the relevant expiry dates are required on the SRG1119.

Don't think there is anywhere on SRG 1119 for the examiner to enter the licence expiry date, although might be a good idea if it was.

[WestWind1950]

I reckon this goes on a lot because the CAA does not send out reminders, and a 5 year cycle is a long time to keep track of.

The German CAA also does NOT send out reminders, ever! First of all, they see it as the pilots responsibility. If it's expired and you still fly, you are doing so illegally in spite of a currant rating. And it IS the responsiblity of instructors or examiners to check that before even flying with you!

Even with the language testing... the German CAA could care less if you have English level 4 or not, it's up to you to get if you want to use the radio in English.

I think the whole licence renewal thing is so messed up since JAA and I wonder some things didn't get straightened up with EASA. 5 years licence, 2 years rating, 3 years instructor, different times for medical, etc. etc.

And also, 12 hours flight time the past 12 months before expire date for renewal. So if you fly 100 hours the first 12 months, they don't count! That is so stupid! In Germany we USED to have 24 hours in the last 24 months, plus at least 3 cross-country flights.... seems a lot more sensible to me.

[IO540]

My UK license shows only the original date of 2001 on it, plus a bunch of various reval signatures and dates 2004-2009.

The thing is that I turned up for the FE reval flight in 2007 so if I was still on the original 2001 license he would have surely spotted that.

A good job I have another one to fly on :)

How long can the 5-year payment bit lapse for before you have to re-sit the exams? I fly ~ 150hrs/year in the meantime.

In Germany we USED to have 24 hours in the last 24 months, plus at least 3 cross-country flights.... seems a lot more sensible to me.

Rumour is that it was Germany which wanted the 12hrs in the last year. I have no idea of the reasoning behind it. It encourages people to chuck it all in because they know they don't need to fly at all for the first year, post-PPL, planning to clock up 12hrs in the 2nd year, but of course most give up before then.

[BEagle]

If you applied for licence re-issue in 2006, the CAA would have sent you a new licence assuming you paid the re-issue fee and held a valid JAA Medical at the time. If not, your licence has now expired.

To have the licence re-issued, you need to hold a valid JAA Medical Certificate and to produce proof of a valid JAA Class (or Type) Rating held in the past 5 years. If your Class Rating expired before 23 Jan 2006, you will need to renew it by LST and submit the renewal paperwork and payment along with the licence re-issue paperwork and fee.

If you want to include a UK IMCR in your JAR-FCL licence on the back of your FAA IR, you will be exempted the ground exam and flight test, provided that you have flown an FAA single pilot IR(A) renewal test in the previous 24 months. So I guess that means if your FAA IR has been maintained purely by 'experience', then you will be required to pass the IMCR flight test if you wish to exercise IMCR privileges on a JAR-FCL aeroplane pilot licence....

No matter when your JAR-FCL PPL or Class Rating expired, there is no requirement to retake any PPL theoretical knowledge exams. Ever.

[IO540]

I recall doing most of a skills test in 2007. It was a dead reckoning flight around Kent, some PFLs, etc. Anyway I will find out soon enough. The CAA medical is a Class 1 and current. I fly only one plane, ever, which is N-reg so no need for an IMCR. I let the IMCR lapse after the last renewal in 2004.

[foxmoth]

If he was revalidating, but a renewal requires an LPC with an examiner

Yes,confess, I fell into that trap, lots of people get renewal and reval mixed up, but he did say intial issue less than 2 years, so probably a reval.

[Abbeville]

Should the person that did your 'hour with an instructor' also be an examiner can he/she sign your license?

I may have misread.

[mrmum]

Should the person that did your 'hour with an instructor' also be an examiner can he/she sign your license?
If you're revalidating, before the expiry date of the rating, by experience, then if the hour is with a instructor, that's fine, but you must then subsequently go to an examiner to carry out the administrative action. If you fly with someone who is both that may make things a little simpler, but you don't have to.
If you choose to revalidate by proficiency check, because you don't or won't meet the "by experience" requirements, then that has to be with an examiner.
If you don't revalidate before the rating expiry date, then you will be renewing, which is by test, with an examiner.

[B4aeros]

Abbeville,

FWIW my 'one hour with an instructor' to revalidate by experience was flown with an examiner this year. He was happy to sign the paperwork straight after the flight.

[Abbeville]

Thanks folks.

Mind now at ease.

A