New to Gliding

[FlyingPhilA]

Hi,

Just booked a gliding lesson for next weekend. Really excited about it, but just a bit nervous about the winch launch as its my first time.

Just want to know what the Winch Launch is like. From what I've seen on video's the launch looks at least 45-55 degree. Which is preety steep when you compare it. How much G-Force is experiance on take-off?

Secondly after, how many flights can you start ridge running?

Thanks

[Mechta]

Winch launches may look sudden and high G, but you soon get used to them. Mrs Mechta's grandaughter had her first when she was six, and she loved it!

The initial acceleration is to some extent related to the wind speed. If there is no wind then the winch must pull you faster to get you airborne. Once up, you will climb at about 45° but it will probably appear steeper. I'm not sure about the G loads, but you accelerate to about 50mph in about six or seven glider lengths. If you are in a K13, which is a common older style training glider, it can seem that it gets pulled straight into the air with barely any ground roll. The more modern gliders tend to take slightly longer.

Best advice is to hang on to your straps (so you have something to grip, and don't obstruct the controls for the instructor). Talk through any concerns with your instructor, and ask him to pre-warn you of what you are likely to see and feel.

'Ridge running' could come on your first flight if you go to somewhere like Sutton Bank and the wind is in the right direction. Few instructors would pass up an opportunity to soar if the conditions are right.

Remember that you are paying though. If you feel at all uncomfortable or get queasy, say so. The instructor wants you to enjoy the flight. Better to have a couple of short flights than one long one if conditions are less than smooth.

If you are concerned by the thought of the initial acceleration of the winch launch but think you might enjoy soaring, a flight at a hill site in the winter may be the answer, as the wind will make both more to your liking.

Enjoy your flight!

[Capot]

Answers from learning to glide in the '60s....before an expert leaps in..

what the Winch Launch is like First time, very exciting. Second time, third time, ....... ad infinitum...ditto.

at least 45-55 degree. The angle of the fuselage against the horizontal may not quite as much as that, especially at the top of the launch where you almost level off before releasing, but it feels like it. The aircraft is climbing due to the lift generated by angle of attack and airspeed, and the angle of the take off path to the horizontal MAY be of that order......wait for the expert, I'm out of my depth..

How much G-Force is experienced on take-off 1G, felt in your back while your feet are almost above you.

After how many flights can you start ridge running If you are flying off a ridge, eg Dunstable, you'll probaby do some ridge-soaring on the first flight if the wind is right. If not, eg Lasham, you'll go looking for lift to soar in, or just complete a longish circuit to land, depending on launch height achieved and the conditons.

All in all a fabulous first time experience, greatly to be envied.

Edit: The expert got in ahead of me!

[Mechta]

Capot, Expert? He must have deleted his post then, I can only see your reply and mine! :)

[pulse1]

Once described to me as like being lifted into the sky on the end of a long whippy pole.

I have over 1000 winch launches back in the early 70's and that was a good description for those days. More recently I experienced a more modern winch launch at Dunstable and it was so fast I thought the wings would snap off.

[MartinCh]

Welcome to gliding. You won't regret it.

At your age, you're 'here' at the right time. You can go solo soon as you're ready, not too old dog to take longer to learn new tricks.

While winch may be statistically bit more dangerous than aerotow, you get trained to proficiency to make sure nothing happens, and if it does, you know what to do, ie later on in your training, you'll practice simulated cable breaks. It's a sign that after maybe 10-15 of those, you may be sent solo, if you do mainly/only winch launch training.

Winching is definitely cheaper for initial training. I did it the other way round due to no winch options at my previous clubs, only started winch training after going solo off aerotow. Once you get the basics of winch and get over the initial acceleration that can confuse your senses (scare you, maybe), you learn how to do everything by the book.

Not sure where you'll be flying, but depending on site, simulated cable breaks may be more demanding. If you have big, long side with not many trees at the edge, it would be less stressing ;-)

As others said, the angle feels much more due to acceleration (inner ear liquid pressing to the back, making you feel like head/body tilting up more than in reality), but after transition to full climb, it is then due to looking directly to sky ahead, although you should be checking the wingtip etc. Above 40ish degrees is excessive and produces too much drag. It also depends on the weight of glider, K13 being common, could be more than, say K21 or Twin Astir, as well as any headwind component.

You want to be practising launches and circuits/landings, so aerotows are costly per launch and if you know the handling basics, sitting on top of ridge or thermalling is nice, but doesn't help with circuits much. Also, depending on club, you may not be able to do more launches per day, if aerotowing, while clubs tend to do more launches by winch, another big plus, if club operates weekends only and not every weekend is good enough for circuits, not even talking about solid thermals..

Winching is thrilling/scary at first, even for me, being used to aerotows, but you'll go solo faster and converting to aerotow solo once you're good on winch, is easy peasy. the other way round, not so :-/

As said, your hands may want to grab on something initial flights, so the hand you're not using, put it on chest, hold strap. I had such times on bumpy, more demanding aerotows, or when the tuggie did steeper/faster turns than I'd have liked. Later on you'll have to use left hand, but that's later on.

I don't want to sound too off-putting. You'll have a blast and you'll know straight away if you're glider pilot for the rest of your life. Even if you fly power later on.

In case you don't have it yet, grab a Piggott's or Ken Stewart's book or two, second hand off amazon. I find Piggott's Beginning Gliding too waffly in some aspects, talking bit too much about feelings of pilot if they don't improve well, etc etc. Not that it's bad, but..

At your age, also check http://www.airleague.co.uk (http://www.airleague.co.uk/) and their scholarships. The deadline is late February. Others may mention other scholarships for youngsters getting into gliding. Hope we'll see you in the club news and first solos' pics in S&G mag this autumn/winter.

[thing]

My take on it is that it's like going up the initial stage of a roller coaster, you know when you're on the geared track bit. It looks much, much steeper than it actually is and also the acceleration at the beginning although very fast doesn't feel that way, well not to me anyway. It all gets fairly normal after the first few launches. Oddly enough I find aerotows much more interesting, probably because most of my flying is winch launch.

Anyway, however anyone tries to describe it to you it won't be the experience that you have so enjoy and let us know how it went!

Oh I agree with Martin as well, once a glider pilot, always a glider pilot. All kinds of flying, be it SEPA, microlight, motor glider or whatever has it's challenges and satisfaction of a flight well done but there's nothing on this Earth that beats being up there at 5 or 6 thousand feet in virtual silence, some considerable comfort (you can't beat flying with your feet up) and an unparalleled view being kept up purely by the power of the Sun and your skill as a pilot.

[gliderkev]

relax and enjoy - as someone above said its a bit like a fairground ride while you are first learning. Once you start taking the controls during a launch you dont really notice the acceleration as much - you are too busy. The acceleration is similar to a high performance sports car ie 0- 60 ( depending on wind speed etc) in about 4-5 seconds so not that extreme, and then speed is more or less constant all the way up. The instructor should be talking to you all the way through the launch. Depending on the launch height available and weather conditions you may only get a short flight but its great fun and a cheap way to fly.

[astir 8]

Just a note - when you start learning winch launching the initial acceleration on the ground is fast and can cause "brain freeze". The guy in the back will be talking about keeping the wings level, keep it balanced on the wheel, keep it straight with the rudder etc etc and all you're thinking is F*** me!!!! or words to that effect.

Don't worry, it gets more logical after a few launches (well about 2000 in my case, but I'm slow on the uptake):ok:

[BackPacker]

The other thing that struck me in my first few glider flights is the amount of noise the wind makes. I had always looked at glider flying as a Zen-like activity which was conducted in absolute quiet. Especially compared to powered flying where you need a headset to protect your hearing from the engine noise.

Not quite so. It's bloody hard work to stay in thermals and the wind noise was way more than I expected.

[astir 8]

Noise depends on the glider - basically the older they are the noisier they get - and it's very easy to judge airspeed "by ear."

Or if you go really far back by how strong the wind is blowing in your hair!

Some of the new glass gliders can be really quiet - which can be alarming at first!

[PotentialPilot]

It's just the loud bang you get upon cable release you got to worry about:E

[tggzzz]

Just booked a gliding lesson for next weekend. Really excited about it, but just a bit nervous about the winch launch as its my first time.Oh you lucky person - you've so many new wonderful exciting experiences ahead of you.

Typical comment before first winch launch is "oh my god". Typical comment after landing is silence (due to a big, slightly inane grin), followed by "that's not as bad as it looks".

Talk to your instructor, ask any questions to ensure you understand what's going to happen and why, and let them know your hope and fears. It may well be possible or you to have limited control of the glider for a short period when you are well away from the ground.

If you want another flight, then ask since it might be possible! Subsequent flights are usually less expensive, and if you join the club the flights will be very significantly less expensive - most people are surprised just how inexpensive.

BTW, dress appropriately since airfields are usually exposed and therefore cold (or hot :)