UK PPL Question -Qualifying Cross Country

[Albanian Seahorse]

Hello,

A quick question about the qualifying cross country - how long is it valid for if I haven't since obtained my PPL? If possible, could I be pointed to the source of such knowledge for any future enquiries? Thank you very much!

AS

[Ryan5252]

I believe SoCal is correct there.

It is my (limited) understanding that the QXC is an experience requirement and thus does not expire. I think an expiry was put on the QXC but this ended with JAR FCL over a decade ago. The only thing you risk losing is the validity of you're exams (and med of course). Even the fact the skills test must be done within 6 months from completion is a non-issue IMHO.

Ryan

[Albanian Seahorse]

Thanks guys...

I am almost certain I will have to re-do the ground exams that I did sit... I don't mind doing this too much, I won't regret revising all the knowledge and it won't be (too) expensive (compared with repeating the qualifying cross country).

I believe I now only have to re-do my exams, and then take the skills test. Otherwise, can anyone see a problem with the fact that my training has been intermittently dispersed over a period of ~5 years or so?

I will download and have a scan of LASORS now! Cheers:ok:

[BackPacker]

Otherwise, can anyone see a problem with the fact that my training has been intermittently dispersed over a period of ~5 years or so?

It depends what the cause is. But if you think the QXC is already so expensive that you prefer not to re-do that if at all possible, I'm thinking that money is the problem.

In which case I think you should seriously consider doing something else. To stay reasonably safe and proficient requires that you fly regularly. And flying is (surprise!) an expensive hobby. If you cannot afford to spend at least something like 2000 euros each and every year, then you may as well quit now, instead of throwing good money after bad. And even with 2000 euros to spend you'll find you'll barely get out of the local circuit.

Don't forget that most UK clubs/schools require a checkride if you haven't flown for 60 days or so. Worst case scenario is you'll find yourself spending all your money on checkrides every 61 days. Where's the fun in that?

There are alternatives that get you in the air, but against far less cost. NPPL/Microlights for instance, or gliding. Within your limited budget you might find them equally rewarding as PPL/A style flying.

[Albanian Seahorse]

Hmmm. Thank you, and that's a good point, one that I've definitely thought about!

[Whopity]

Qualifying Cross Country was the term used in the UK National PPL Training Course; it had a validity of 9 months. Since 1999 there has been a JAA experience requirement that originates in ICAO Annex 1.
2.3.1.3.2 The applicant shall have completed in aeroplanes
not less than 10 hours of solo flight time under the supervision
of an authorized flight instructor, including 5 hours of solo
cross-country flight time with at least one cross-country flight
totalling not less than 270 km (150 NM) in the course of which
full-stop landings at two different aerodromes shall be made. It is an experience requirement and has no validity period whatsoever.

[FormationFlyer]

Whilst I mostly agree with whopity my reading of JAR-FCL 1 suggest otherwise - that ALL the training is time limited (and this includes the QXC as it is PART of the training course defined in JAR-FCL 1.125.

Be aware that according to JAR-FCL 1.135 you must take your skills test within 6 months of completing the training course.

Reading it, this means that once you have completed the requirement in JAR-FCL 1.125 (25 hours dual, 10 hrs solo including 5 hrs solo xc including the QXC (yes we still call it that simply for convenience)) the training is considered to be complete.

My reading of this means that you would have to redo the ENTIRE course - You would not be credited anything for the previous training other than it will count towards the additional 10 hours required (after all 25+1=35 and 45 are needed).

My advice is - get your skates on!!

[I would be interested to note what the CAAs thoughts on this were!]

[Whopity]

My reading of this means that you would have to redo the ENTIRE course - You would not be credited anything for the previous training other than it will count towards the additional 10 hours required (after all 25+1=35 and 45 are needed).The training course is complete when you say it is complete. There is no specified period over which the training must be completed other than it shall not be more than 6 months before taking the Skill Test. If you go out of 6 months you simply do some more training so that the candidate is up to standard for the test and the 6 months starts again. That's the way its been since 1999.

[BillieBob]

Whopity is entirely correct. JAR-FCL 1.125(b) states that an applicant shall have completed at least 25 hours of dual instruction and at least 10 hours of supervised solo flight time. To suggest that the course is considered complete as soon as these minima is reached is simply ludicrous.

[Ryan5252]

I think the general jist of the OP's question was 'If I have done my QXC will it ever expire to a point whereby I have to re-do my QXC flight a second time?' By all accounts the simple answer is no.

The requirement to do skills test within 6 months of completing the course is a load of nonsense. If your >6 months since your last flight, any short flight with an instructor whereby time is logged as PUT will suffice and thus the 6 month clock starts ticking again.

IMHO

Ryan

[FormationFlyer]

Hmm. I did think about this more as we certainly do a couple more pre skills test revision flights after finishing all the required syllabus....

If the form SRG1105 Section 9 has been completed then the course is complete - for definite. So not simply ridiculous. The course MUST be completed prior to taking the skill test with an examiner - that is also written in the examiners handbook. Again so it is ENTIRELY possible to officially complete the course and expire 6 months.The requirements to 'finish' required training and the 6 months bit is also in LASORS C1.4.

Im assuming that this doesnt matter unless Section 9 of the application form has been completed, and that any instructional flight + filling in the form would still work for the candidate - I would test them in this case but if the SRG1105 was > 6 months on section 9 I would not be able to test them.

But why put the requirement in JAR-FCL at all then? Im just trying to interpret the damn thing (which to me seems to be more than a job in itself given the number of situations we see.)

Whopity - That's the way its been since 1999.

I dont doubt you. But where is this written just for my future reference should I find students in this situation? (its probably more common than we think especially given the modern financial climate).

[Whopity]

Its written in JAR-FCL as Billiebob says, soon to be in Part FCL. Its origin is in ICAO Annex 1. What more do you want?

What would be the purpose of redoing all the training?

The reason for the 6 months between completion of training and the test is to ensure that the student is prepared, and in most cases a student who waits 6 months from completing their training will not be. It simply sets a maximum time from the last training flight to the Skill Test and as an examiner its one of the things you check prior to conducting the test. In most cases I always find the last training flight was the day before the test no matter when they were trained. I simply look at the log book. SRG1105 is only an application form, you can tear it up and start again.