Bolkow MBB209 Monsun

[tridriver]

Chaps

Thinking of buying into a group who run a Monsun.

Having flown her she's the bee's knee's, but know little else about this aircraft, apart from what can be gleaned of the tinternet.

Comments and thoughts would be most welcome!

[EDMJ]

I learned to fly in one in the early Nineties and sorely miss it today. It's a wonderful, very lively and very well built aircraft which is an absolute joy to fly. It has a relatively high wing loading and some sources claim that it's critical in the stall, something which I however never noticed. I do however believe that some spare parts are in short supply, but maybe Silvaire1 knows more about this. EADS in Germany (Manching/Ingolstadt) at least used to have a division called "Flugzeugunion Süd" which was effectively the type certificate holder (also for the Bo 207 and Bo 208) and had some spares in stock.

[john ball]

As Silvaire1 said there are four versions, from 150 to 160, retract nose wheel or not, fuel injection or Carb. I had a share in the top version which was the 160 fuel inj VP prop and retractable nose gear. Nice aircraft for aero's, but not really as fast in cruise flight as you would expect - about 130kts, which is surprising considering to skinny wing, but I think the reason is the blunt nose and high bubble canopy. My RV6 with a fat wing is still 20kts faster !!! If I had my choice again, I would choose the most basic version with 150hp and fixed gear as it is not a lot slower - maybe 115kts, but without all the complications and costs. The main things that went wrong on ours were the injection pump, retract nose wheel and extra costs of the VP props. Also although lower powered it has less weight of the nose wheel system and heavy VP prop.
Simple is best in these days of high maintenance costs.
Note, though with the fixed prop it will not be as such a short field aircraft as the VP version.

[fisbangwollop]

Tri....is it Booker based??

[dyslexnick]

Hi Tri

Fine aeroplane,i have a share of a 150 FV .I have flown her for 230 hours in the last three years and feel attatched at the hip.I have helped out on the last two annuals and have a great deal of confidence in her.
Feel free to contact for more info
Nick

[EDMJ]

@silvaire1: What a beautiful example of a fantastic aircraft - you're a very lucky person! I learned to fly with Flugsportgruppe Bölkow in D-EBOI (c/n 102) which at that time was painted in the same colour scheme. We had another one as well, namely D-EBOE, and were based on Neubiberg airfield (now closed), close to Ottobrunn. Both of them are pictured in the book you cite above. D-EBOI was originally in a white/blue/black scheme, and can also be seen in that scheme in the Monsun formation picture on the Flugzeugunion Süd internet link.

Incidentally, the Monsun was initially developed as the MHK-101 as a private initiative by a Bölkow employee, Hermann Mylius, and contains some design features of the Bölkow Bo 208 Junior produced by the company at that time (the boxy rear fuselage and the all-flying tailplane). The original MHK-101 survived until very recently and was destroyed in a fatal crash. He also built two examples of a very similarly looking single-seat aerobatic aircraft, the Mylius Tornado. Many years later, his son attempted to return both of them to production, but the company went broke before they actually built any. Apparently, Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm made (almost) no profit on the aircraft they sold, and decided to focus on helicopters instead.

[dyslexnick]

Tridriver
If you drop me an email i will foward you a Pdf of the flight report of our aircraft in "Pilot Magazine"

EDMJ Our aircaft Logbooks for D-EGHW c-n 170 from 1971 until 1991 are missing.She was D-Eaaj from 71-76 then HB-UER from 76-84. She then took up her current markings.Can you suggest where i look to try and find them.From invoices i can see during 85/86 she was in Hausen,in 1988 at Offenbach and 1989 in Elsdorf.

I would be grateful for any help

Nick

[basil faulty]

Hi, there is a share available in one based at Biggin which has a brand new engine and canopy, the group has been going since 1973 when they bought the plane, it has 160hp plus retractable nose gear and vp prop. If interested pm me. 135 ias on 35ltr ph.

[rocco16]

How many in the group?

[basil faulty]

Please pm me if you are seriously interested

[treadigraph]

Basil, is that the one with the black and red diagonal stripes? Remember seeing it there on my first visit to Biggin in 1975 (flew with the scouts courtesy of ATS), and pleased to see it climbing out as I was cycling past last year. Must surely be one of the longest residents at Biggin!

[basil faulty]

Hi, yes it is, I have known the group since I was five in 1977, they used to drink in my fathers bar at the field. And today I am a very proud shareholder in her I am now 38 and a skipper for easy! Must be one of the longest running groups around? :)

[Taramundis]

Hi, we heard about some people that is planning to bring the Mylius Tornado back into production. The Tornado was a more powerful and enhanced version that was in the process of certification in Germany. It would be great to see this aircraft back in the air. The aircraft is based on a different TC than the original Monsun, but eventually through special approvals parts may become available to the original BO-209.

[vee-tail-1]

What a beautiful aeroplane ... visibility might even be better than my ATL ... and it has folding wings.

Presume it's an EASA type now on part M rules.
Have the UK based Monsun syndicates kept their aeroplanes on the D register? If so are there advantages over the G register?
Just curious, because keeping an ATL on the F register has a lot going for it.

[Ultra long hauler]

Since through pure selfishness I am looking for reasons for discussions of the Monsun to continue :O

Always willing to help out, so here´s some questions for you:

120 kts cruise, what does she burn while doing so?
Is the cabin spacious? Or do you normally wish your co-pilot had been more generous with the deodorant that morning?
Is she STOL capable at all?

Just comparing her with my baby………and I can´t talk enough about her either!

Cheers,

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[POBJOY]

This must be PE as used by Air Touring in the 70's to give 'Rallye drivers' something sporty to look forward to. Its original red/white paint scheme was very smart in its day and the machine was a joy to handle,plus stopping the instructors getting 'Rallye Lag' (opposite to jet lag).
At the time i flew it (1972) it was one of the more 'crisp' machines available at Biggin, and was also used for the required spin training.
All this decades before the 'Rans' came along.
You can see its 208 influence from the cockpit back.
I think you will enjoy this machine, but just remember it is a 'retractable', or do they leave it down all the time nowadays.

[Pilot DAR]

Apparently design decisions were made on the basis of choosing the most complex and time consuming way to manufacture everything, especially if it was slightly better in the mind of somebody who worked in the tool room.

So it is typical of a UK design philosophy?;)

[john ball]

I had a share in PE from 1990 to 1997 ish, great aircraft to fly with beautiful handling. But I also flew her in the early seventies, when Airtouring operated it and DD for spin training, before the Rallye's with the bigger rudders came out in the mid seventies. Those were the days when spin training was part of the PPL. I used to fly with Dave Buswell, Tony Weadon, Kevin Hills, John Bryan and Graham White. POBJOY is correct that it is similar to the VANS ( Rans ) which I now have at Biggin, but the Vans is more docile, faster, better load carrier and far cheaper to run, but is no where near as good as the Monsun for Aero's.

[POBJOY]

JB; i do not think that Rallyes needed a bigger rudder to get out of spins;they never wanted to get into them to start with. What they did get (with an increase in engine size) was a dorsal fin screwed on.
However the Monsun's cruise (compared even with a 4 seat cessna) is a bit of a mystery considering its lack of struts and clean wing.

[john ball]

The Monsun has very slim and tapered wings, compared to the Vans RV6 that has short stubby and fat section wings. The Monsun also has a very blunt nose and rather square rear fuselage. That is why it is slow, even though the wings are so aerodynamic ( but cannot comment on the actual section ) I always found the the Monsun was a delight to Aerobat, especially in the looping plane. In the roll not a lot difference to the Vans.
The slow speed handling in the Van's is absolutely superb as the wing although small has a fairly high lift section. I have a flying colleague at Biggin who has a Falco -- This has a thin wing and beautiful fuselage, but with the 160 and C/s prop it is no faster than my Van's. I will out climb him anyday. The falco is a scalpel, but the Vans a sledgehammer !! The Monsun must be somewhere inbetween. Yes the Monsun is a great plane and if you have a chance to fly it or buy a share, do so.

[basil faulty]

2 Shares going in PE at Biggin guys. Let me know if anyone wants to look round her.

[POBJOY]

A non-argument, as in 1972 there were NO similar vans to compare it with,plus the Monsun is capable of folding its wings!!!,and be towed.Also the Monsun was a series production aircraft available for club hire use at a time (1972) when messers Cessna,Piper,Beagle,MS,and Sportavia did not produce a comparable machine.
Not knocking the Vans,but it is like saying the Battle of Britain would have been less of a 'narrow margin' if we had had Hunters then.
Suitable gap for tin helmet before the Pup150 v Monsun thread starts.

Be interesting to know how much drag that canopy-fuselage interface gives on the Monsun.

[POBJOY]

Ah i forgot the SAH 1 or 'Pup reincarnation'.
This was designed to be a 'Club' machine and or a basic military trainer with uprated engine.
It seemed to have the classic handling of the Pup without the problems of 'curved doors' and expensive production features.
Most instuctors who flew it thought it handled well with nice harmonised controls (although this was soon altered when the elevator 'feel' was changed to suit a certain authority).
With a design suited to 'production' this could have been a 'British' product that actually worked,but by then the Beagle product had gone to Scottish Aviation (as had the Jetstream) and the 'Bulldog' went to the Air Force but not to the clubs.
Remember the 'Beagle Airdale' was supposed to be the British 172 such was the thinking of the time !!!

Yes; i quite agree about the lack of wing fairings Sil.