Unable to sit written exams !

[tow1709]

For various reasons my PPL training has been interrupted a few times, and now my Air Law and Navigation exams are about to "drop off" the end of the 18 month period. Without the former I can not fly solo at all (at my FTO), and without the latter I can not fly solo outside the circuit even if I did have the Air Law.

Unfortunately my FTO will not, for the foreseeable future, have the necessary suitably qualified examiner present to invigilate and mark papers for me at weekends, which is the only time I am available to go there.

Marking the papers is not exactly difficult, and I find it odd that the school has the authority to exercise judgement sufficient to send me, as a student, flying off solo in a busy circuit, yet can not be trusted to delegate a qualified instructor to mark a paper properly or to ensure that I do not cheat.

Rant over! I guess I will just have to phone round some other FTO's in the area, to see if they will let me sit papers there, even if I don't intend to have any airborne lessons with them.

[beany]

Hi,

That's a bit annoying! Does it have to be an examiner who invigilates the exams? Could you take the exam with someone at the club invigilating and then leave it for the examiner to mark when he or she is in during the week?

Failing that could you go to another school to take the exams and then take your ground exam records back to youe existing one?

Sounds a little frustrating!

B

[DX Wombat]

None of my written exams was invigilated by an examiner.

[tow1709]

Sorry, I didn't mean the sort of invigilation where "teach" sits at the front of the school gym (YouTube - Armstrong and Miller Exam Hall Sketch 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufc4WHODaRs)), but rather it seems that at this FTO it must be the CFI, or his deputy, who gets the exam paper out of the safe and collects and marks it afterwards.

[Johnm]

I'm not sure but you may be confused. Section C1.3 of LASORS 2010 shows that you need to pass all the theoretical exams within a period of 18 months for them to be valid. You are right that you need the Ground Examiner unless he's delegated someone to invigilate on his behalf which is what most schools arrange.

You then have a further 24 months to get through the skills test during which you must complete the flying requirements.

Most people do the ground exams and flying in parallel but you have to complete both within the stated times to be allowed to take the skills test.

Hope that helps

[flybmi]

Although the examiner is able to delegate the invigilation of the exam to another member of staff, the examiner does have to be there to administer and collect the papers. The examiner is the registered custodian of the exam papers, and as such is responsible for them. Rightly so, there's no way around that.

I find it slightly odd that an organisation providing PPL training is unable to complete ground exams at a weekend, but that's life! There should be no problems with you sitting your exams elsewhere, and if you give an indication of your location I'm sure somebody will be able to suggest some examiners.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

tow1709,

Sorry to hear of your dilemna -

Now, bearing in mind it is your FTO that has (hesitate to use the word) 'failed' to provide the required resources for your to take your examinations, would it really be too much for them to accommodate you at a time suitable to you?

I assume your lack of availability during the week is due to work commitments, is that correct? If so, I would expect either the examiner or his/her delegate to remain a little longer after hours one day to see you through. Typing that does make me feel I'm being demanding, but on the other hand, were I instructing at your school and heard of this issue, I would be first to offer my presence to you so you may take your exam(s), in my own time if necessary.

I may have the wrong end of the stick, but it does seem a lot of people nowadays just don't go the whole nine yards when it comes to issues such as these.

But then again, I've always been too nice to peeps :p

Anyway, hopefully a useful suggestion - as mentioned above, have a look around other FTOs, explain this to your current school, and take the docs back with you. Seems the most sensible option.

Good luck :)

[BackPacker]

and now my Air Law and Navigation exams are about to "drop off" the end of the 18 month period. Without the former I can not fly solo at all (at my FTO), and without the latter I can not fly solo outside the circuit even if I did have the Air Law.

There is no legal requirement whatsoever to do Air Law or Navigation before flying solo. In fact, there is no legal requirement to do any exam whatsoever before flying solo - at least under JAA rules.

The reason FTOs often stipulate Air Law before first solo, and Navigation before first x-country solo is mainly to force you to study the theory and take the ground exams while your practical education progresses.

In your case, you've already done the exams (so presumably you've been studying anyway) so the *objective* of the FTOs rule has been met. So I can't see why the FTO wouldn't let you fly solo anyway.

Obviously you'll have to re-sit the exams at some point in time before your skills test though. Where I studied, the instructors were authorized to set you up for the exam and make sure you didn't cheat. The CFI would then grade the papers at his convenience later. I don't know if this was entirely legal (and I would certainly not approve of the way the exam papers were being kept - in unlocked filing cabinets) but it did mean that you could sit the exam at any convenient time, with about three minutes notice.

[Lister Noble]

Air law gives the vital basic rules for traffic seperation,anti-collision etc.
I think anyone would be plain stupid to fly without showing their understanding of that knowledge,and most instructors feel the same.
It seems pretty simple to me.:ugh:

[jxc]

By the sound of it he had already passed the Airlaw exam so he should know it albeit any changes in the last 18months since he passed it

[Lister Noble]

Sorry!:)
Should have read it in detail.

[tow1709]

Just to clarify: yes, I have already passed Air Law - 17 or so months ago - and now need to take it again to continue flying solo.

Quote by BP: There is no legal requirement whatsoever to do Air Law or navigation before flying solo.

Agreed, but my FTO along with many others, as is their right, want you to have passed Air Law to fly solo. As I passed it almost 18 months ago, I will soon need to take and pass it again - which I am perfectly capable of doing and willing to do if only they could accommodate me.

They also want me to have passed Nav (which I have, but also more than 18 months ago) before flying outside the local circuit - I think they are less worried by this. I have already demonstrated in the air that I can navigate.

I am not complaining about my FTO who are implementing the rules as they see them, but rather the rules that apparently make it difficult to take these exams without the CFI himself or his deputy presiding over them.

[S-Works]

None of my written exams was invigilated by an examiner.

Rubbish or name and shame.

[blagger]

Where are you based? PM me and I will quite happily sort you out with exams at weekends.

[Whirlygig]

Neither were mine if you mean ...

the sort of invigilation where "teach" sits at the front of the school gym .

Cheers

Whirls

[S-Works]

As a fabled keeper of the ground exams myself I can assure you that it is the responsibility of the ground examiner to invigilate the exam. This includes handing the exam paper to the candidate and ensuring that it is conducted without interference.

Allowing a non ground examiner access to the papers is not permitted. That's why we have ground examiners in the first place.....

[blagger]

Bose

It is quite OK for an invigilator to be appointed by the examiner to invigilate the PPL exams, and that person doesn't have to be a ground examiner. Have a read of para 2.7 standards doc 11. This allows the ground examiner to go flying or perform other school duties rather than sitting through exams.

[S-Works]

Blagger, absolutely. However it is the responsibility of the ground examiner to issue the papers and ensure an invigilator is in place. It is not within the rules for the ground examiner just to hand over the keys to the papers to anyone to administer. That is why the caa have a GI approval in the first place.

[Whirlygig]

Bose-x, I don't think DX Wombat, and certainly not myself, were saying that any old Tom, Dick and Harry handed us the PPL papers but that we did not actually have someone present with us the entire duration of the exam breathing down our necks.

In each case (two different, and highly reputable helicopter schools - work it out), I was put in a room on my own with no books or posters by the Ground Examiner, handed the papers and told to get on with it. The Ground Examiner makred the papers. Apart from an appointed instructor sticking his head through the door occassionally to check I was OK, I was not inviligated in the true sense of the word.

Cheers

Whirls

[Fuji Abound]

Mine were a long time ago (and the Flying School is no longer in existence) but I can guarantee none of mine were invigilated. I was given the paper and told to get on with it. Seemed sensible enough to me - it is pretty difficult to cheat, even if you wanted to do so.

[jollyrog]

What nonsense. Remind them that you are the customer. Either they faciliate the exams, or you dump them. See how quick they protect their future income by making someone appropriately qualified avaialable.

[DX Wombat]

Calm down Bose, calm down. Whirls has got it right. The confusion arises from the initial post and differing understandings of the word "invigilate" which, when I was at school, meant that a member of staff was always present during the exam. Perhaps it was different for you?

Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
invigilate /ɪnˈvɪdʒɪleɪt/

▶verb
Brit. supervise candidates during an examination.

– derivatives
invigilation noun,
invigilator noun.
– origin C16 (in the general sense ‘watch over’): from L. invigilat-, invigilare ‘watch over’.
Like Whirls, I too was in a room on my own with only the permitted articles - pen etc and no nice informative posters on the walls. It would have been impossible for me to escape to gather "helpful items" without being noticed - there was only one way in and out and that involved passing the reception desk and the eagle eyes of the person manning it.

[S-Works]

DX. It's good to know the system was not being abused.

[Johnm]

The poor chap should have done all the ground exams within the last 18 months, then they'd be valid for two years from the last one.

Moreover, Custodian of Exam Papers doesn't have to be the ground examiner and the ground examiner can delegate invigilation.