PPL Flight Levels

[Cessna 172S Skyhawk]

Hi All,

Have searched the internet and have not found an answer to this question yet.

Is there a restriction on the flight level you can fly at with a PPL. Probably sounds like a stupid question, but flying VFR can you bring the aircraft to say its maximum Flight Level (say 15,000 ft) if that is what the aircraft is capable of or must you stay at a certain flight level.

Hope I dont get too many bashings for asking this question, just something I have wondered about and cannot find an answer too.

[dublinpilot]

There is no level restriction on your licence.

However while most of European airspace above FL195 is class C, they have invented a rule saying that you can't fly under VFR in the clss c above this level.

Other places have different rules. For example in the USA most airspace above 18000ft is class A, in which you can't fly VFR.

In an Irish registered aircraft, you need an IR to be able to fly under VFR, even in VMC.

dp

[Jan Olieslagers]

Your question is not that daft, not to me at least. For as far as I understand, it does not matter in this respect whether one flies on a PPL or an ATPL or an NPPL(S)* or whatever - what matters is whether one is allowed to fly the rules for the given area. VFR is the basic, allowed everywhere to all pilots, I believe. The trouble comes when wanting to fly in airspace only allowing IFR and not having the appropriate rating.

Another difficulty could be the airspace being only open to aircraft carrying certain equipment - a transponder is the obvious example - but that's about the craft, not about the pilot.


*NPPL submarine - surely the UK must have such a thing defined among its bewildering variety of licenses

[IO540]

Is there a restriction on the flight level you can fly at with a PPL

Not on the license itself.

As mentioned above, you cannot go into Class A on a plain PPL because Class A is IFR-only (unless the Class A airspace touches the ground in which case SVFR is possible; Heathrow and Jersey are some examples).

At the other end - Class G - you can fly anywhere, without a clearance and non-radio (well maybe not in Upper Volta where they will make you into stew when you land, but you get the idea).

In between these two extremes, i.e. Class B-F, VFR is possible everywhere under ICAO rules, but then you get shafted by a wide variety of controlled airspace (Class B-D) operating policies. France doesn't allow VFR within its Class D layer which generally starts at FL115. I think most of Europe bans VFR in its Class C above FL195. And there is a huge variation in local ATC restrictive practices from one country to another and from one unit to the next.

The biggest advantage of getting an IR is that it cuts out all this crap. Suddenly, ATC work "for you". The ability to fly in IMC, etc, is a bonus.

Funnily enough, there is a lot of Class E above FL600, where you could fly VFR and non-radio.You just need a suitably licensed pilot and a suitable aircraft to get you there, and then you can start logging the time :)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

In a bog standard rented club spamcan the practical answer is FL95 because

- you don't want to get much higher than that without oxygen
- the thing ain't going to go much higher than that anyway
- that's about how far you can go up and come down again in an hour.

[Cessna 172S Skyhawk]

Thanks for all the replies.

So to summaries..........

If I had a decent aircraft, experience etc I could fly to about FL195 but in reality, without oxegyn etc....I would cruise at circa FL95 on VFR only without an IR.

Thanks for the nitty gritty answers as well as the practical answers.

[Jan Olieslagers]

That must depend on your personality, too, as illustrated in several discussions about crossing the English Channel. If you wish to be 100% on the legal and safe and correct side, the answer must be much like yours.
At the other end of the scale, I was shown photo's of a fellow-member of my then club, circling the Mont Blanc at +/- 18000ft AMSL, with his non-turbo Rotax-powered microlight.

[Cessna 172S Skyhawk]

In Ireland, VFR FL is up to FL195
Between FL195 and FL290 permission is required (not always granted)
Above FL290 VFR permission will not be granted

Could possibly be the same for Europe

[FormationFlyer]

And class B which is FL100 upwards in the UK requires RNAV etc. So much is dependent on the aeroplane fit.

[IO540]

And class B which is FL100 upwards in the UK

Really? Where?

requires RNAV etc

For VFR?

(I think you meant a BRNAV certified GPS installation).

[englishal]

And class B which is FL100 upwards in the UK
News to me !!!

Some spam cans can quite easily reach 20,000'.

[SNS3Guppy]

In an Irish registered aircraft, you need an IR to be able to fly under VFR, even in VMC.

Do you mean, perhaps, that an instrument rating is required to fly under IFR, even in visual conditions?

If so, it's no different in the US.

[dublinpilot]

In an Irish registered aircraft, you need an IR to be able to fly under VFR, even in VMC.
Do you mean, perhaps, that an instrument rating is required to fly under IFR, even in visual conditions?

If so, it's no different in the US.

Yes.

I point that out because the poster's location is given as Dublin. I pointed out that you needed to fly under IFR above FL195 in most of Europe, even though it's class C.

Most posters here are from the UK, and will be familiar with the idea of being able to fly under IFR in VMC without an IR, and I simply wanted to point out (before someone confused it with the UK rules) that that option isn't available in an Irish registered aircraft anywhere, nor any other registered aircraft over the Irish state.

dp

[Jim59]

There are some areas in the UK where gliders are permitted VFR above FL195 by letters of agreement. Some to FL240, others to FL270 and others are to unlimited altitudes.

They are available for use only after prior contact with ATC on the day.

[FlyingStone]

It is also worth noting that above FL195 you are legally required to carry radio equipment with 8.33 kHz channel spacing (such as Garmin 430/530).

[IO540]

Very true, but I think that is IFR flights only.