Laser Pointers

[HugMonster]

Are they illegal?

[Flintstone]

Don't know but I reckon they should be.

Read a newspaper article last week about an American 'artist' who wants everyone in the US to point their laser pointers at the moon on a certain date and time with the intention of creating a spot that can be seen from Earth.

I don't know much about art but I can spot cr@p a mile off.

[Lucifer]

Some are, mostly ones you can get in Spain etc. Here they are illegal above a certain intensity.

[HugMonster]

OK - thanks.

Just wondering as I found them on sale in CDG T1 yesterday.

The label said wavelength 635-670 nm, max power <0.95 mW. Class II laser.

I assume that this is legal; if not, perhaps someone at ADP should suggest to the shop they should withdraw it - or is the law totally different in France? Even if legal, perhaps an airport gift shop is not the most suitable place for them to be sold...

[stickyb]

Not sure what the legal limits are, but can tell you from personal experience that even the legal ones cause one hell of a problem if someone shines it in your eye. I had afterimages for a couple of hours.
Take care
:eek:

[Cornish Jack]

Not illegal, Huggy - as far as I know. Use one quite frequently. Nothing else that I know of will indicate the nose gear lock-pin insertion point on the 744 (11 feet up, in a dark retraction bay)
However, once, in the recent past, was taking a batch of pilot studes on a ramp transit and, when checking through Security, the following conversation ensued....
"Whassat then?" (pointing at laser pointer on neck chain)
"A laser pointer" (puzzled)
"How many batteries?"
"Umm, three, I think" (confused)
"Can't take that in, then"
"Why not?" (even more confused)
"'Cos its got three batteries - that makes it industrial - domestics only have two." (Said with the satisfied assurance of someone who has recently read the book)
"Ohhh... well what happens now?"
"Got to book it in. Collect it when you leave"
A certain amount of verbal to-ing and fro-ing finally convinced me that he wasdn't joking and so we spent about twenty minutes filling in the necessary paperwork. This essential administrative procedure was repeated as we left, taking a similar amount of time.
Why should I remark on such a thing?
Well, that was one visit amongst, perhaps, some forty or so during the last three years, when similarly equipped and at the same airport and its almost equally busy neighbour no such problems have occurred. So, was the first guy overly sensitive or have all the others been too relaxed?
Continue to use it (responsibly, I hope) where and when appropriate.
Have a spare one, left at a friend's house for the purposes of keeping her cat amused - best cat toy in the world!!! :)
(Have just re-read that last para and can see the potential for a transfer to Jet Blast :D :D

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

Cornish Jack - you do realise that using a laser pointer to amuse a cat can get you into serious legal trouble? See http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05443036__ :eek:

---Mik

[HugMonster]

OK - now I know that the USA is the land of the certifiably insane. (Or should that be inane?) Someone is actually trying to patent the act of shining a laser pointer on a surface in close proximity to a cat to get the to chase the spot???? :rolleyes:

A harmless bit of fun, perhaps - but to patent it? What do we have to do to be allowed to do this? Buy a licence of this guy? How do wee explain to the police what we were doing when, through the window they spy you doing this in breach of US Patent laws?

What a load of jerks there are in the world...

[Cornish Jack]

PD
Phew!!! Many thanks for alerting me to the possibility of patent infraction!! :D
'cos I'm old, I shall allow myself a 'Victor Meldrew-ism' and state loudly "I don't BELIEEEEVE IT!"
Just a thought, in passing; why would that particularly esoteric piece of information be known to you? :confused: Are you a patents buff? or (God forbid) are you the patentee? Please tell. nudge, nudge ;) ;)

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

If you think that patent is bad, try http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US05965809__

I'm interested in patents as a huge number of stupid software patents have been granted. For example, many of the software algorithms that I either learnt or derived for myself 20+ years ago as a computer science undergraduate have recently been patented. :rolleyes:

---Mik

[Genghis the Engineer]

In a previous life I did some work on the use of laser devices for FJ aircraft (the Jaguar specifically). We went to great lengths to ensure that the laser (usually used for targetting a Paveway LGB) could never rebound into the cockpit off any part of the aircraft. But, although we went to all this effort, the medical advice in any case was that the blink reflex would protect the pilots eyes from any permanent damage (spots before the eyes for a few hours didn't count). I don't recall exactly what the power was of the laser we hung under the Jag, but I'm pretty sure it would be rather more than the little device I bought in a street market in Spain and use for lecturing.

I seem to recall that our very high tech solution involved cutting out sticky backed plastic to match the outline of the jet, and sticking it to the window of the laser capsule.

G

[Cornish Jack]

Thank you PD. You had me worried there, for a moment. I shall keep my spare dweeb's anorak for someone else.
As for that further example of our ex-colonial's mental health..... well, I much prefer the manual version, myself - maybe not so accurate but MUCH more fun!! :D

[Groundgripper]

I bought a laser pointer in Hong Kong a few years ago for use in presentations at work. Some time later a circular came round from Health and Safety saying that all privately owned lasers had to be registered. I called them up and gave them the details printed on the device:
Class 3B Laser
Diode Laser 670mm
Max 5mW
SS-EN-60825.
The H&S bloke went ballistic saying that it was above the legal limit and it should be quarantined immediately!
Mind you, he also said that at that wattage it was actually a Class 3A device which was safe, but he would be round shortly to look at it.
Two years later when I was made redundant I still hadn't seen him!

At 0.95mW and rated Class 2, I guess your's is safe. Still, it's better to be careful how you use it in any case, as has been said, even the safe ones can cause temporary problems.

Only last week I was using mine to exercise my son's two cats - I think I got bored of it before they did!

[Self Loading Freight]

I don't think lasers of any power are illegal in the UK, per se, but the safety requirements go up pretty sharpish with the power. (I used to have a Scientific American book about building your own lasers out of bits of piping and tin foil -- one of the simpler ones used nitrogen and had peak power in the kilowatts. Fantastic!) Never heard this one about 'three batteries makes it industrial', sounds a bit sus. The very small toy ones use three watch batteries to give the diode regulator some extra headroom and a bit more life; bigger pen sized ones have two AA batteries because the voltage doesn't droop quite so dramatically.

As for the cat toy: it's almost worth buying the cat and the pointer as a kit (ho ho) if you lack both, so much fun it can be. Must try it with a green laser when I finally get one... (and violet laser diodes have just gone into production at Nichia. Those people have some sort of alien technology, I tell ya).

R

[Don D Cake]

There is a "catch all" European Directive, The General Product Safety Directive, that requires each member country to legislate against unsafe consumer products. So unsafe laser pointers should be illegal. What is unsafe? IEC60825 describes laser emission classes as (abridged):

Class 1: Lasers which are safe under reasonably foreseeable conditions of operation

Class 2: Lasers emitting visible radiation....Eye protection is afforded by aversion responses including the blink reflex.

Class 3A: Lasers which are safe for viewing with the unaided eye....Direct intrabeam viewing....with optical aids....may be hazardous.

Class 3B: Direct intrabeam viewing is always hazardous. Viewing diffuse reflections is normally safe.

Class 4: Lasers which are also capable of producing hazardous diffuse reflections. They may cause skin injuries and could also constitute a fire hazard. Their use requires extreme caution. :eek:

So Class 1 to class 3A are "safe". They could still dazzle you though, especially in low ambient light conditions. But then so would a torch and they're safe!

Although laser emission measurement is complex, I concur that the "3B" laser mentioned previously is probably "3A" as it has a max output of 5mW.

[Hugh Jampton]

It's true that the blink reflex should prevent accidental damage to the eye, provided that nothing more serious than a handheld laser pointer is used. The most powerful lasers of this type sold in the UK (Helium-Neon or Diode) rarely exceed 2mw, which will only cause long-term damage if the beam is forcefully directed into the eye.

However, the temporary blinding effect can occur even with lasers of this type and it can therefore represent a risk (as can any temporary loss of vision).

Would be more careful with lasers above 2 milliwatts.

Cheers

Hugh