(Cathay)Airline passengers unloaded after 11 hours waiting on JFK tarmac

[Grinch]

CNN had a 5 min piece on this...
11 hrs after landing at JFK from YVR, 0200- 1300 on the airplane... what if the crew declares a mayday due to a Riot in the Cabin.

CNN.com Search (http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=Cathay%20Pacific%20&primaryType=mixed&sortBy=date&intl=false)

Anderson Cooper 360: Blog Archive - Airline passengers unloaded after 11 hours waiting on JFK tarmac - CNN.com Blogs (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/28/airline-passengers-unloaded-after-11-hours-waiting-on-jfk-tarmac/?iref=allsearch)

Click on all the Links including the story on BA pax talking about only 3 Customs officers available to CX and BA's 600 plus pax after finally getting off...Good Job WTF is going on with these airports.

CX spokesman very political (almost CYA in tone) ... " no good pointing fingers..."

Pax Bill of rights only applies to Domestic flights

[411A]

Serves 'em right.
Serious air travelers avoid JFK like the plague.

[Air Profit]

The most hilarious comment so far on this is this one from a Port Authority spokesman:

It is an airline’s responsibility to make sure before they leave their point of origin to make sure that they have a gate assignment,” said Steve Coleman (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Steve%20Coleman&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja), a Port Authority spokesman. “These airlines did not. So they got to the airport and had no place to dock.”

So let me get this straight: an airline contracts with an airport to lease gates, gates they use every day of the week at approximately the same time of day. You show up at the airport, after a 15 hr flight, expecting to use said gate, and a moron at the airport authority then states you are supposed to check BEFORE you leave HK if you have a gate or not....???? Hello....am i missing something here? This is yet another example of just how incredibly pathetic the USA is becoming, at just about every level. Makes Uganda in the 70's look good....

[411A]

This is yet another example of just how incredibly pathetic the USA is becoming, at just about every level.
It's all quite simple, don't come here if you don't like it....in fact, Air Profit, we don't want you here, anyway.:rolleyes:

Now, looking at the JFK situation just slightly more objectively, the period in question found about two feet of snow dumped on JFK and surrounding areas in a twenty four hour period...and the airport was kept open, nevertheless.
Whereas, just a short time ago, four inches of snow closed LHR for two days. Totally closed, no movements at all.
And, the CX flight deck crew in question were not-so-smart, either, as this heavy snowfall was well predicted.
Perhaps...CX crews just don't bother to look at the weather forecasts.:}

[Air Profit]

The UK is a creaky country with poor infrastructure....but the people know it and constantly rail against the government to improve things.

The US is a creaky country with poor infrastructure....but on the whole all you hear is 'my country, right or wrong'...... Well, the last few years...it's mainly wrong. Just look at your home value in Fountain Hills......sure you're really happy with that economic fact?

[Air Profit]

A question does come to mind: If the conditions were so bad at JFK, and gates were not going to be available, why would the CX ground staff not have told HK this fact and have the aircraft diverted...? Does seem as though the infamous chinese inability towards 'lateral thinking' has come back to bite...

[third floor whore]

I suspect that going to JFK, and waiting on the ground for 11 hours, was the best of a lot of bad options. Both for Cathay, and the passengers.

Should they have diverted, CX would have had to pay for a lot of hotel rooms, and then had FDP, crewing, and a lot of other issues. Even at an online port.

And if they diverted, I guarantee that these passengers would have had to wait a lot longer than 11 hours to get to JFK. I would have been days.

[Air Profit]

...good point (all's forgiven...! ;))

[BeefReefFlyer]

Keep in mind that the Port Authority has the responsibility to get the runways and taxiways cleared and accessible for arriving/departing flights. The individual airlines have the responsibility for their respective ramp areas. Once the Port declared the airport "OPEN", that means the airport can land/takeoff aircraft....Period! Parking, immigration, customs, baggage handlers, gate agents, etc....., have NO bearing on whether to call the airport OPEN or not. The responsibility falls squarely on the airlines and in particular the STATION MANAGER!! You would think that the respective station manager would have a simple checklist....
Gate Area: Clear and available Check
Baggage Handlers: Available Check
Customs/Immigration: Available Check
Ground Staff: Available Check
.
If any/all of these required parties are not ready, then pick up the phone and instruct IOC not to depart any flts for JFK until these required services are back in operation. The station manager is on site and is the best person to make that call....heck, it's their job!! It is a tough call on a flight en-route, but launching already diverted flights from YYZ to JFK without the ability to park and handle the pax is absurd. The station manager in JFK has some explaining to do.

[MrClaus]

For what its worth, I just heard a CX spokesman on the radio admitting that they restarted operations too early and that this contributed to the delays on the ground.

Also, am I going colour blind or some of those image verification thingies impossible to read?

[411A]

Also, am I going colour blind or some of those image verification thingies impossible to read?
Some are, yes so....select another one.

[joblow]

okay so the whole fiasco was a total mess .

Yes Cathay has a gate allocation but the flight arrived late, very late, so it would have been prudent to check the availability of gates, ramp handling staff, remembering that a lot of them would have been unable to get to work due to the driving conditions. Refuellers and most importantly the availability of de icing fluid.
This is not the first time that Cathay have launched aircraft into blizzards in NA and I'm sure that it won't be the last . IOC have a massive resistance to canceling flights. There is an attitude of, go at all costs, and the crew can sort it out when they get there.
Surely When all of the NA airlines are canceling flights the sensible thing to do is to heed their judgement and do the same thing, after all it is their backyard.
I have to ask, have any of the IOC staff ever seen snow or have any idea of the difficulties of operating an aircraft in such bad weather conditions? I guess not, and none of the senior managers will be sent to the gulag for retraining following this mess. So it begs the question who was ultimately responsible for dispatching the aircraft in the first instance????

Why were the passengers not allowed to disembark using steps and then be bussed to the terminal ? What would the port authority have done if there had been a medical case on board ? Genuine or invented .

The whole episode was a complete disgrace and Cathay deserves all the bad press it got, as does the port authority for not passing information to the airlines that use JFK, informing them not to launch into JFK without ensuring that they could disembark passengers or that gates were available.
Having said that the PA of NY showed no lateral thinking ,when aircraft arrived full of passengers , in coming up with an alternative plan to get those passengers off the aircraft.

Isn't there legislation in place to fine the airlines for keeping passengers hostage on the ground for more than 2 hours and shouldn't the passengers now be free to sue the PA for doing the same thing????

[carl baker]

To TFW - you sound like an absolute suck. Appropriate handle. Yes - let's leave to the Line crews to deal with it. Why have an IOC and all and sundry - I bet the crew contacted them and they had either nothing to offer or said continue.

CX the mantra is to let the front line crews deal with the iorate pax caused by poor pro-active planning and operations by the 'back office'.

Happy new Year and get the brown off your tongues, and see it for what it is!

[HM79]

At JFK the Port Authority does not control the allocation of gates. In Cathay's case it is controled by BA, because they utilize terminal 7 which is run by BA.

Cathay brought in 4 777-300's during the first 6 hours of operations after the blizzard. The unforseen event was the ramp employees were not able to get to JFK due to the lack of mass transit, and the rampers were not going to spend $30 to $50 to come to work by cab. This lack of employees ground the already challenging operation to a halt.

If the crews experienced any emergency situations that required deplaning of passengers by stairs in a remote location that option was available and was not utilized.

Before any questions of my information:

I work at JFK and was there on the nights in question.:=

[Goldeye]

I operated into JFK right after a blizzard last year. We parked at Terminal 5, since Terminal 7 was full. I wonder how the ASM managed this last year, but this year no such love?

[joblow]

HM 79

Thanks for the information , it just backs up my argument that there was no apparent thought put into the cx operation following the blizzard . Who in their right mind launches 4 777's into an airport that has just suffered a devestating snow storm . Why wasn't the lack of staff or employees considered.? It was pretty obvious to anyone with a TV that road transportation was going to be a major issue .
So, we dump all of those passengers in NY, just how were they supposed to get to their ultimate destination ? Most of the transportation network in NY was at a standstill following the blizzard and I would venture a guess that hotel rooms were in critically short supply as well

Personally I think that 11 hours stuck on an aircraft after landing constitutes an emergency. Just a point of interest ,Did any of the crews ask to deplane the passengers at a remote bay? and if so what was the PA of NY response,

[411A]

,Did any of the crews ask to deplane the passengers at a remote bay? and if so what was the PA of NY response

It makes no difference whether they asked the Port Authority, or not.
US Customs and Immigration calls the shots with arriving international flights, at all US landing rights airports.
If ICE says...stay on board...pax stay on board.
No exception, except in case of dire medical emergency.

[geh065]

So, we dump all of those passengers in NY, just how were they supposed to get to their ultimate destination ? Most of the transportation network in NY was at a standstill following the blizzard and I would venture a guess that hotel rooms were in critically short supply as well

I am sure that CX couldn't care less about that. Once the passengers are off the plane at their destination then who cares what happens to them!

[GlueBall]

...Another Anderson Cooper story, a chap who has too much sail for his hull.

[third floor whore]

Given that the flight departed Hong Kong before the situation at JFK became apparent, what would you have done.?

See if you can come up with one option that would have resulted in less delay for the passengers, and less cost for the company.

Sorry to bust your dreams, but Cathay are not in this game to make things easier for the line crews. I dont like it, but bitching about it wont change the fact.

If you are talking about the safety issue of landing in marginal weather, then that was a question for the crew on the day.