Security

[Robert Campbell]

Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video.

An airline pilot is being disciplined by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) for posting video on YouTube pointing out what he believes are serious flaws in airport security.

The YouTube videos, posted Nov. 28, show what the pilot calls the irony of flight crews being forced to go through TSA screening while ground crew who service the aircraft are able to access secure areas simply by swiping a card.An airline pilot is being disciplined by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) for posting video on YouTube pointing out what he believes are serious flaws in airport security.

The YouTube videos, posted Nov. 28, show what the pilot calls the irony of flight crews being forced to go through TSA screening while ground crew who service the aircraft are able to access secure areas simply by swiping a card.:ugh:

Sacramento-area pilot punished for YouTube video | News10.net | Sacramento, California | Local News (http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=113529&catid=2)

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

Well, there ARE very plainly displayed posters and notices at every security checkpoint (and even customs/immigration facilities) that I've gone through in the last several years that expressly prohibit photography. I expect that was also the case here.

So posting a video taken in an area where its prohibited to take one isn't very clever, and is asking for a reaction really.

[Robert Campbell]

Perhaps that was his intent.

[stuckgear]

unfortunately, providing a confidential written report directly, highlighting security failures, gains no response or action.

[Romeo E.T.]

anybody have a link to the series of youtube videos, or have they been removed ?

[Robert Campbell]

There is some video on the link I posted at the top of the thread. It's on the right side of the page.

[Romeo E.T.]

Robert Campbell Video Link

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is some video on the link I posted at the top of the thread. It's on the right side of the page.

I watched the news report video, but am now keen to view all "supposed" 6 other full length videos

[Robert Campbell]

The reporter said that the pilot's supervisor asked him to take the videos down.

[grumpyoldgeek]

Most intelligent US citizens, and BTW there are a few, agree that the whole thing is largely TSA security theater. Yet there is nothing we can do. Our lawmakers lack the testicles to fix it. We can no more put common sense into our system than you British can straighten out LHR. Anyone that's spent any time around airports and aircraft can think of a half-dozen ways evade security. So what the hell do we do?

[protectthehornet]

funny how a pilot gets screwed for doing something wrong and some guy on WIKILEAKS is a freaking hero to some like that dumb film maker

[SKS777FLYER]

I don't know if the pilot identified himself in his vids, didn't watch. He signed legal documents when he was sworn in as a Federal LEO that his status as an armed pilot was not to be revealed to those who have no need to know...... not to mention the same non-disclosure of any security details or procedures either in or out of the c/p.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

not to mention the same non-disclosure of any security details or procedures either in or out of the c/p.
Sometimes ... even a priest has to break the seal of confession!

[Robert Campbell]

More from the pilot:

Sacramento's whistleblowing pilot explains why he did it | News10.net | Sacramento, California | News (http://www.news10.net/news/story.aspx?storyid=113731&catid=2)

Video choice on right.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

At 3.40 ! :sad:

National Security Leaders Discuss Terror Threat - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/national-security-leaders-discuss-ongoing-terror-janet-napolitano-dhs-homeland-politics-12453917)

[F6HellCat]

Airport Security: Loaded Gun Slips Past TSA Screeners - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-screeners/story?id=12412458)

recent article on airport security and TSA where undercover agents would try and smuggle things through security and succeeded 50 times out of 70 to either smuggle a gun or a bomb part through security. I dont know about you guys that seems like a lot to me. :suspect: sure does make TSA look like a joke I wonder if federal marshal are going to storm ABC news studio and take away their cameras! :}

[Alanwsg]

And even mythbusters got through .....

LiveLeak.com - Adam Savage goes through TSA security (with two twelve inch long razor blades) (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a65_1290800550)

[sky9]

Mind you they are all very thorough when the search my pensioner wife. :D

[spinnaker]

One of the reasons I gave up my career, was because I had no intention of being assaulted every time I went to work. Neither will I support any state, including my own (UK) that utilises private forces that commit assault, sometimes of a serious sexual nature, and that force is not held publicly accountable or their crimes investigated and the guilty being charged and tried. The so called 'War on Terror' has turned us in something that the war was supposed to prevent.

Just out of curiosity, did Adam Savage go on any rampage with his razors? Any disembowelling of crew and pilots during the flight....etc.etc. Thought not.

[glad rag]

spinnaker,

Well said.

The points made by others (and myself ) having been removed tells you all you need to know what is happening to the "Land of the Free"

:sad:

[aterpster]

glad rag:
The points made by others (and myself ) having been removed tells you all you need to know what is happening to the "Land of the Free"

Was PPRuNe also raided by the TSA? :*:mad::rolleyes:

[mini]

He mentions that ground staff just need a swipe card, I have to wonder what vetting ground staff have to go through to get such a swipe card...

[YorkshireTyke]

but if the "system" is good enough to 'vet' ground crew, it is surely also good enough to 'vet' aircrew ? Same system, same swipe card ? Why not ?

Ground crew should be more rigorously 'vetted' - after all, they can put the bomb on board without having to travel with it themselves !

It's only about a year ago that LAX discovered that ground crew going to work having parked their cars in the staff car park, then boarded a bus that dropped them off Airside, passing no security check ! even ones who were off duty carrying cabin baggage for the flight they were going to check in for.

( my source ? L.A. Times in 2009 )

[PA-28-180]

" but if the "system" is good enough to 'vet' ground crew, it is surely also good enough to 'vet' aircrew ? Same system, same swipe card ? Why not ? "

A great idea....but, here's my questions: Are ground handlers union? If yes, WHAT union? But I'm sure I'm probably just being my usual cynical self! :ugh:

"All animals are created equal....but SOME are MORE equal than others...."
- George Orwell, "Animal Farm"

[protectthehornet]

there are experimental places where pilots can swipe a card, so to speak, and get in...

amazing though about the ground pounders.

I think it would be cheaper to just have a couple of marines on each plane, with orders to shoot to kill

[RobertS975]

Depends on the airline... some ground staff are in unions and some are not.

[NVpilot]

Maybe it's because no ground staff were involved in the 9/11 plot, on the other hand...

[YorkshireTyke]

What's being a member of a Union got to do with it ?

Are Union members exempt from this nonsense ?

It is up to the employer to guarantee that anyone that they give a 'swipe' card to, and therefore Airside access, is indeed a bone fide employee, and they can introduce as many security checks as they like before accepting one for engagement and issue a pass, if the individual, or the Union, don't like it - next please.

[Sciolistes]

He mentions that ground staff just need a swipe card, I have to wonder what vetting ground staff have to go through to get such a swipe card...
The best vetting in the world would not prevent the obvious coercion that such staff maybe subjected to to take something undesirable airside. But obviously it doesn't stop there. Catering truck, spares deliveries all go through a separate entrance. One would hope that materials and catering is checked as thoroughly as the passengers and cargo? But I doubt it.

but if the "system" is good enough to 'vet' ground crew, it is surely also good enough to 'vet' aircrew ? Same system, same swipe card ? Why not ?
Not really, aircrew cross boarders and it would seem sensible to ensure anybody travelling internationally should all be screened to the same standard (pax and staff). Even for domestic travel a diversion to a foreign alternate remains a possibility. It makes sense to have one process for aircrew that covers all angles.

I reckon that anybody going airside must go through the same process as the aircrew, not the other way around.

[PA-28-180]

" What's being a member of a Union got to do with it ? "

It was in reference to the fact that for the past 2 years, unions in America (at least SOME unions) seem to get a 'pass' on just about everything - "but that's not important now".....guess I forgot to hit the 'sarcasm button' on my computer! :E

[heli-cal]

Security is a misnomer, there's a (presumably) vetted Security Officer at LHR who's currently working in a name which he created in order to get the job! :ugh:

[clockwork]

Slightly off topic, but on Sky news the other night when talking about snow clearance at LHR, I'm sure it was mentioned that there were 150 contractors brought in to help clear the runway.
Do all these contractors hava an airside security clearance, I wonder? Or maybe when it suits the powers that be, it can all be glossed over.

[SKS777FLYER]

NVPilot Maybe it's because no ground staff were involved in the 9/11 plot, on the other hand...

In the days immediately following the 9/11 attacks there were numerous "boxcutters" found taped under various 1st class seats of several aircraft belonging to just one American airline.

[MathFox]

At Schiphol (Amsterdam) Airport I saw a checkpoint where ground staff had to run the metal detector before they were allowed outdoors. I think it must be logistically possible to have similar checks in the US. And I think that publicly disclosing security flaws is the only way to get them fixed at "organizations" like the TSA that seem unwilling to handle individual complaints.

[fireflybob]

I reckon that anybody going airside must go through the same process as the aircrew, not the other way around.

Sciolistes has it in one here. We all know, anecdotally, that the rules and procedures are not applied uniformly.

Until there is a will at political level for change, then nothing will change.

Aircrew only have themselves to blame for this situation arising. We should be very concerned about these disparities but until all crew members are on a united front little will change.

A day of action (or inaction) would force the issue. On a parallel if you told the train drivers and railway signallers that they couldnt take yogurts to work Bob Crowe at the RMT would have called an immediate strike, the network would have ground to a halt and it would have all been sorted within 24 hours!

Finally, the western world needs to ask itself the question as to what we are doing (and have done!) to cause "terrorists" to want to put bombs etc on aircraft?

[MathFox]

I am still waiting for a proper security trade-off made by the ones "in charge". What does it cost to catch all those liquid explosives water bottles when the plot (if any) to blow up a plane with a lemonade bottle didn't even get near to an airport. Both the shoe and the underwear bomber didn't achieve more damage to the plane than some scorched carpet. Is there a cost-benefit analysis for passenger scanning?

[infrequentflyer789]

Is there a cost-benefit analysis for passenger scanning?

Oh yes...

Political cost of being seen to do nothing: high
Political cost of being seen to do something which sounds impressive but is actually ineffectual and eventually fails: much lower, maybe nil if it takes long enough to fail

Cost of buying / running acutal scanning measures: nil - pass to passengers
Benefit of buying / running scanning: high - big profits for security theatre companies
[guess which of the above groups lobbies the politicians ?]

Cost of increased security queues: nil (well, for the airport...)
Benefit of increase security queues: lots - charge em more for a fast-track queue!

Cost of increased check-in to gate time: nil (except for the pax...)
Benefit of increased check-in to gate time: lots more time in the shopping mall...

...and so on.

[Sir George Cayley]

Flaws in the use of ID swipe cards.

I had one for 12 years - the photo was updated only twice over that period so I didn't resemble the photo at times.

I grew a beard but didn't have to have a new photo.

I had to start wearing spectacles but didn't need a new photo.

You can see where this is going... if someone obtains another persons ID swipe card it wouldn't take much to appear like the small photo on the card.

Either that or hold the poor victim's family hostage to make them take something airside.

Finally, talking in general about security, ask what B I B means?

Sir George Cayley

[SKS777FLYER]

fireflybob Finally, the western world needs to ask itself the question as to what we are doing (and have done!) to cause "terrorists" to want to put bombs etc on aircraft?

It would seem the desire to kill seemingly indiscriminately by whacked out fundamentalists is not at all limited to the western world. They are quite happy suicide bombing fellow Muslims in huge numbers whether it be east or west. Simply put for you, if you ain't one of the "terrorists" as you put it, then in their mind, no matter who you are or what society you live in, you are only fit for extermination.

[Jabiman]

Historically, regimes which start off democratic may become authoritarian by extending the limits of state bureaucracy. This may be manifest in the security apparatus and under the cover of an external (or internal) threat justification.
Our current course may yet result in a victory for the terrorists as the freedom which we cherish and they despise is encroached and progressively dismantled.
Al-Qaeda network a failure: US cable - Yahoo!7 (http://au.news.yahoo.com/wikileaks/a/-/article/8512118/al-qaeda-network-a-failure-us-cable/)
And yet the 'war' continues.

[bearfoil]

Robert Campbell

It is as you say. The system at SMF is ridiculous. Pilot's are consistently having to find access to the ramp in ways that cause them inconvenience and cost them time. It is this "Card Entry" baloney that is at the heart of the problem. TSA is a cf.

bear

[BobM2]

I think a little background on the current security charade is in order since most of you were probably not around when these events occurred.

When passenger screening was initiated in the US in the early 1970's all working airline employees, both ground & flight, could bypass the checkpoint by showing their airline ID. This worked well for some 15 years until the following event out of LAX on Dec 7, 1987 (Pearl Harbor Day):

A RECENTLY DISCHARGED USAIR EMPLOYEE BOARDED PSA FLT 1771 AFTER HAVING LEFT A GOODBYE MESSAGE WITH FRIENDS. HE BYPASSED SECURITY AND CARRIED ABD A BORROWED 44 CALIBER PISTOL. A NOTE WRITTEN BY THIS PSGR, FOUND IN THE WRECKAGE, THREATENED HIS FORMER SUPERVISOR AT USAIR, WHO WAS ABOARD THE FLT. AT 1613, THE PLT RPTD TO OAKLAND ARTCC THAT HE HAD AN EMERGENCY AND THAT GUNSHOTS HAD BEEN FIRED IN THE AIRPLANE. WITHIN 25 SECONDS, OAKLAND CTR CONTROLLERS OBSERVED THAT PSA 1771 HAD BEGUN A RAPID DESCENT FM WHICH IT DID NOT RECOVER. WITNESSES ON THE GND SAID THE AIRPLANE WAS INTACT AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF FIRE BEFORE THE AIRPLANE STRUCK THE GND IN A STEEP NOSE-DOWN ATTITUDE. THE CVR TAPE REVEALED THE SOUNDS OF A SCUFFLE AND SEVERAL SHOTS WHICH WERE APPARENTLY FIRED IN OR NEAR THE COCKPIT. THE PISTOL WAS FOUND IN THE WRECKAGE WITH 6 EXPENDED ROUNDS. FAA RULES PERMITTED AIRLINE EMPLOYEES TO BYPASS SECURITY CHECKPOINTS

After this disaster, Elizabeth Dole, a politico who was then Sec. of Transportation, decreed that no employee could bypass screening at a PASSENGER checkpoint. The result was that the flight crews, who were the potential victims, were required to be screened, while the ground crews continued to use the "downstairs doors" with NO screening.

The only thing more absurd than this situation is the fact that you flight crews have put up with it for the past 23 years....

[aterpster]

BobM2:

After this disaster, Elizabeth Dole, a politico who was then Sec. of Transportation, decreed that no employee could bypass screening at a PASSENGER checkpoint. The result was that the flight crews, who were the potential victims, were required to be screened, while the ground crews continued to use the "downstairs doors" with NO screening.

When that stage kicked in, at pilot domiciles, the august management pilots were issued special airport-issued IDs in addition to their company ID. Same for the baggage busters, mechs, etc. They were considered part of the "airport team" whereas as line pukes, even though based at that airport, where not part of the "airport team." Thus, when we wanted to preflight the aircraft, we had to have some member of the "airport team" accompany us to do the preflight. This "team" member could be a clueless baggage buster.

So, this B.S. came in stages, long before 911.

[Robert Campbell]

Revolutionary Politics::Revolutionary Politics : Pilot Whistleblower Exposes Huge Holes In Airport Security & Gets Treated Like A Criminal By TSA (http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=13462)

This is a slow load. It's one of those sites that the government doesn't like.

[bearfoil]

BobM2

This gunman didn't "bypass" the screening system with an ID. He Waved at the gate agent, who recognized him, and waved him onto the Flight, with a 5 pound handgun in his jacket.

So. Let's see....... Costing the Country billions of dollars, while failing utterly at the mission, the TSA is considered necessary to protect "US" from "THEM".

Hmm.......What could an "actual" enemy do that is more insidious??
bear

Beyond embarrassing, the TSA is a black hole of money, and security.

[protectthehornet]

please correct me if I'm wrong, but that flight wasn't a USAIR flight, it was a PSA (the original pacific southwest airlines)...now there might have been conversations about buying PSA...but the plane had PSA on it when it went down.

[BobM2]

BobM2

This gunman didn't "bypass" the screening system with an ID. He Waved at the gate agent, who recognized him, and waved him onto the Flight, with a 5 pound handgun in his jacket.

I don't quite follow you here Bearfoil. Once he reached the gate, he had already cleared the checkpoint & was well within the "secure" area. He had either avoided screening at the checkpoint with his ID card (which is what the feds say), or else used the downstairs door (which in 1987 had only a keypad combination lock) to bypass the checkpoint altogether. The only duty of the gate agent was to verify his ticket & allow him to board.

I do agree with your assessment of the current security situation.

[bizjets101]

Pilot decides to go public,

The Kathryn Report: Chris Liu: I am the YouTube airline pilot (http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2010/12/i-am-youtube-airline-pilot.html)

[bearfoil]

BobM2

Memory might have failed me, and I've not looked back at the report. I remember the shooter as being recognized and waved through by security, so my gate agent post must be wrong. At the time I was living about ten miles from the hole. I forget the depth, it was impressive. God rest.

[rubik101]

YouTube pilot reveals himself | Chris Liu | Defends security video (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/youtube-pilot-reveals-himself-defends-actions-20101229-199q3.html)

Chris Liu appeared in a press conference Dec 29th explaining why he is dissatisfied with the present security arrangements at San Francisco Airport, which extends, presumably, to all airports in the US. (Include the UK and pretty well everywhere else in this criticism).
He sees as a fundemental flaw the non-screening of all the air side workers including the TSA personnel themselves. They have full air-side access simply by swiping a smart card to gain entry. His argument is simply that these people should either go through the same screening as the crews or the crews should go through the same entry procedure as these card holders.
He would prefer that they all go through the same procedures as the crews.
I have to say, I agree with him.

[aterpster]

rubik101:

He sees as a fundemental flaw the non-screening of all the air side workers including the TSA personnel themselves. They have full air-side access simply by swiping a smart card to gain entry. His argument is simply that these people should either go through the same screening as the crews or the crews should go through the same entry procedure as these card holders.

I trust he doesn't mind facing those folks now that they know who he is.

[Sleeve Wing]

Why should he ?

We're all in this together, aren't we ??

Then together we can get the nonsense sorted.

[aterpster]

Sleeve Wing:

Why should he ?

We're all in this together, aren't we ??

Not exactly. That is his whole point.

Then together we can get the nonsense sorted.

Right, the baggage busters and TSA agents are our comrades in arm.:hmm:

[corsair]

Yes indeed forcing flight crew to be screened while ground staff simply amble in by means of a swipe card is a disparity.

But if anyone thinks pointing this out will result in a sensible policy is surely mistaken. The most likely reaction of officialdom is to introduce screening for ground staff after taking away their swipe cards. Lots more jobs for security apes and a subsequent increase in the hassle factor for airport workers.

No security benefit either.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Flaws in the use of ID swipe cards.

I had one for 12 years - the photo was updated only twice over that period so I didn't resemble the photo at times.

Before swipe-cards, I recall that we rebelled against even the requirement wear name badges, and later a photo-ID hanging from every neck, and one of my colleagues replaced his photo with one of his spaniel dog.

Nobody noticed.

[mocoman]

clockwork said:
Do all these contractors hava an airside security clearance, I wonder? Or maybe when it suits the powers that be, it can all be glossed over.

All contractors used during the snow clearance at LHR were security cleared since they were already working airside on the T2 project.

The main T2A contractor had offered the use of their plant and workers to aid in snow and ice clearance; this offer was finally accepted by airport management.

:cool:

[BIG MACH]

So if they were state employees that would be OK then. The old Soviet Union did a nice line in state employees. Would they be the sort of security staff you had in mind?

[stuckgear]

Benefit of buying / running scanning: high - big profits for security theatre companies
[guess which of the above groups lobbies the politicians ?]




Michael Chertoff, 2nd Sec. Homeland Security 2005- 2009...

Michael Chertoff has been an advocate of enhanced technologies, such as full body scanners, that reduce security vulnerabilities and enhance detection capabilities for those threats not easily detected by metal detectors. Rapiscan Systems, a manufacturer of this technology, was a client of his security consulting firm, the Chertoff Group in 2009 and services provided were related to aviation security. The Chertoff Group played a massive role in the sale of whole body imaging technology to TSA

former Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff has given dozens of media interviews touting the need for the federal government to buy more full-body scanners for airports. (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/)



Who else is on the Chertoff group team ??

Other board members include : ex-director of CIA, ex-NSA/CSS, ex-US CBP, ex-DHS, ex-under sec. to UN on Safety and security..

Team Chertoff Group (http://chertoffgroup.com/cgroup/about/team/)

and...


UK MP John Reid:


Home Secretary (2006-2007)
Secretary of State for Defence (2005-2006)
Secretary of State for Health (2003-2005)
Leader of House of Commons (2003)
Party Chair and Minister without Portolio (2002-2003)
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (2001-2002)
Secretary of State for Scotland (1999-2001)
Minister for Transport (1998-1999)
Minister of Defence (1997-1998)

Security ? no. Politicos making bank off the taxpaying, travlling public ? hmmm.

follow ------------------------------> The Money



Now as a final comment.. Rapiscan....



Rapiscan CEO with Obama in India

In light of the news that Glenn Beck broke on his show last week regarding the owner of the Rapiscan body scanners (George Soros’ OSI) being used by the TSA, there’s this tidbit (http://dailypaul.com/node/149723) to add to it.




tidbit..

"OSI Systems is the owner of Rapiscan Systems which manufactures the Secure 1000, one of the most commonly used backscatter x-ray machines. And, no it is not the Deepak Chopra you’re thinking of.
OSI Systems Chief Executive Officer Joins US Presidential Visit to India
HAWTHORNE, Calif.–(BUSINESS WIRE)– OSI Systems, Inc. (NASDAQ: OSIS), a vertically-integrated provider of specialized electronic products for critical applications in the Security and Healthcare industries, today announced that Deepak Chopra, Chairman and CEO, was selected to accompany US President, Barack Obama, to Mumbai and attended the US India Business Entrepreneurship meeting, which was held by the US India Business Council (US IBC). The goal of the meeting was to promote further trade between US and India...."


So our industry continues to get scr3wed to the wall as vehicle for political elite to make fortunes off of, with no benefit to the industry, in fact much less, it remains detrimental to the industry... And lets not even get started on the taxation issues !

[bearfoil]

In my analysis, TSA comes off as dramatically larger than it need be, with an unnerring focus on missing out on the Mission, and being relatively distracting of a sensible approach. The Personnel are mediocre, and the mission is evocative of a Ken Kesey novel, ripping good reading, but too ironic for words.

Captain Liu? a sensible man persecuted by the Nurse Ratcheds of the piece. Funny if not so disturbing..........

bear

[hellsbrink]

Slightly off topic, but on Sky news the other night when talking about snow clearance at LHR, I'm sure it was mentioned that there were 150 contractors brought in to help clear the runway.
Do all these contractors hava an airside security clearance, I wonder? Or maybe when it suits the powers that be, it can all be glossed over.Unless the rules have changed, they get a temp airside pass which means they are accompanied by someone, who has been vetted, at all times. A simple solution as the time taken to go through criminal records checks would mean the snow would be gone by the time the "vetting" had been completed.

Of course, these contractors could always be on standby so will have had the vetting done and will have a full airside pass anyway.


That's how it used to work at LHR, I guessing it ain't changed much since I was there.



Edit: Or another reason like the one posted above saying they were already cleared since they were working on T2

[JumpJumpJump]

Maybe it's because no ground staff were involved in the 9/11 plot, on the other hand...


I don't believe any Line pilot's were involved in this plot either!

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Unless the rules have changed, they get a temp airside pass which means they are accompanied by someone, who has been vetted, at all times.

Yep, that will work when the accompanier is whacked over the head with a shovel and the non-vetted person can walk around the airfield with impunity :ugh::ugh:

[stuckgear]

Airport bans toy soldier's three-inch rifle from plane... because it's a safety threat | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351037/Airport-bans-toy-soldiers-inch-rifle-plane--safety-threat.html)


Airport officials ordered a holidaymaker carrying a toy soldier onto a plane to remove its three-inch gun - because it was a safety threat.

Ken Lloyd was stunned when he was told he could not go on the plane with the nine-inch model soldier because it was carrying a 'firearm'.

The Canadian tourist and his wife had bought the toy, which holds a replica SA80 rifle, during a visit to the Royal Signals Museum at Blandford Camp in Dorset.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/27/article-0-0CEEFE8D000005DC-94_468x632.jpg

[...]

A spokeswoman for Gatwick Airport said: 'Items including firearms and items with the appearance of firearms are prohibited.



yep, i feel soo much safer!

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Airport officials ordered a holidaymaker carrying a toy soldier onto a plane to remove its three-inch gun - because it was a safety threat.

Ken Lloyd was stunned when he was told he could not go on the plane with the nine-inch model soldier because it was carrying a 'firearm'.

The Canadian tourist and his wife had bought the toy, which holds a replica SA80 rifle, during a visit to the Royal Signals Museum at Blandford Camp in Dorset.


[...]

A spokeswoman for Gatwick Airport said: 'Items including firearms and items with the appearance of firearms are prohibited.
yep, i feel soo much safer!

You really couldn't make it up.

Just doing some quick maths a normal SA 80 is 900mm long, this "gun" was 76mm long.

So if you want the same muzzle velocity that a real Sa 80 has firing at around 950 m/s then, well I can't be bothered with the actual maths, but it would be about the size of a grain of sand.

Due to continuing stupidity by these lunatics, I often ask the question, are they taking the mick?

[cwatters]

Meanwhile ...

BBC News - Police hunt US-bought guns smuggled in hold luggage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12279177)

"Police hunt US-bought guns smuggled in hold luggage"

[aiman]

Wife and I at Brussels had to drink remains of some water left in a small plastic bottle. OK we said but then were told that we could not take the now empty bottle on board as it still contained some liquid in it, didn't count the drops I'm sorry. Mind is still boggling !

[stuckgear]

American Steven Greenoe, 37, is accused in the US of smuggling 62 guns into the UK, including Glock and Ruger 9mm pistols.
Police fear many were sold on to criminal gangs in north-west England.
Documents posted in US courts reveal US officials questioned Mr Greenoe about the dismantled guns in his luggage, but he talked his way on to a flight


I think it was in JB, but one of the posters relayed an event, IIRCC in Florida, where serving military personnel had to pass their issued firearms, through the x-ray machines.

it really doesnt get more bizarre than that.

or does it....



TSA Told To Tell Children That Groping Them Is A Game... Horrifying Sex Abuse Experts
from the that's-not-a-game dept


Apparently TSA agents are being told that one way to handle the new groping pat downs for children is to try to make it out to be some sort of "game." (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/airport-patdowns-grooming-children-sex-predators-abuse-expert/) This is apparently horrifying some sex abuse experts who point out that a common tactic in abuse cases is to tell the kids that they're just "playing a game." The TSA has said that the newer patdowns will not apply to children under 12, but the rules have been somewhat unclear -- leading to the statement from a TSA director, James Marchand:"You try to make it as best you can for that child to come through. If you can come up with some kind of a game to play with a child, it makes it a lot easier." He also said that the idea of making it a game would become a part of the TSA's training. Ken Wooden, who runs an organization to try to stop sex abuse of children was not pleased:"How can experts working at the TSA be so incredibly misinformed and misguided to suggest that full body pat downs for children be portrayed as a game?" Wooden asked in an email. "To do so is completely contrary to what we in the sexual abuse prevention field have been trying to accomplish for the past thirty years."

http://iusbvision.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/firct-cavity-search.jpg?w=700&h=700

[jcjeant]

Hi,

Security at maximum rate in UK :)

Google Vertaling (http://translate.google.be/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.news.yahoo.com%2F55%2F20110128%2 Ftod-ils-ne-peuvent-pas-prendre-l-avion-c-17baed7.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

This demonstrates once again the stupidity of those security people and system :*
That we put these people accountable to a platoon of execution .. so they know what a real firearm is. :}

[Admiral346]

Sh1t, I've got to go to BHX day after tomorrow. Now that'll be fun.

Hope, I can keep my mouth shut.

Nic

[Ushuaia]

I think everyone needs to get down to the local model shop, buy a few of these and bung 'em in your carry on luggage. Definitely entertaining but also would make the important point: that the system has lost the plot.

http://www.airfix.com/_images/assets/product-directory/product-detail-thumbnail/A02701.jpg http://www.airfix.com/_images/assets/product-directory/product-detail-thumbnail/A02701-back.jpg

[zerotohero]

This may well be the wrong place to post but I could not find the section for security issues

I had a problem in STN last week with my bag size going through staff security VP9, I work as flight deck for Ryanair and Jumpseat through there to my base or where ever they are sending me that week, I sometimes need to take a large bag with me to put in the hold or behind the trolleys in the galley.

For the last 3 years its been fine, last week some jumped up :mad: said it was to big and I had to check it in, as I don't have a ticket jumpseating thats not an option, I ended up going through various different levels of security management and wasting 20mins and got a yes JUST THIS ONCE! i was told (what about the 3 years its been fine?)

So anyway I want to contact them for a memo they apparently had a few months ago about what we can and cant take through security as crew so I can either bring the issue to the attention of the company with problems been out of base then, or tell them to do one as there making stuff up which I believe to be the case

Does anyone have this memo from previously enquiring or know the correct contact info for this as the website is all passenger based with no "Contact us" option, and its not a passenger query I have.

???

[LH2]

Sorry I cannot really help with the specifics of what you are asking for, but why not just sue the :mad:? There is no legal basis whatsobuggeringever for what they do.

[jester42]

Sorry can't help you with the memo.
Once the bag has been X-rayed/searched what on earth has the size got to do with security? It's just another example of another UK poorly thought out system, together with giving a modicum of power to someone who isn't responsible enough to wield it.
Get to work buddy and make their eyes water!

[WHBM]

Once the bag has been X-rayed/searched what on earth has the size got to do with security?
Yes, you may well wonder that. Likewise for number/quantity of bags.

It all arises from the targets the government has set for processing time at security. Rather than provide adequate resources, let alone a little slack in the system to turn out just a bit better than those targets, a number of security managements have unilaterally imposed these restrictions as a way of minimising the amount of work they have to do and therefore just manage to come inside the target time by reducing what they do.

[wlaziu]

Ask them for an explanation on paper.
Go with that to the security chief or management and tell them it's your right to have a bag, it's their job to check it.

[peba]

get talking to the duty manager in STN,she helped me out a few years back regarding jump seat travel.they just would not let me through so i wanted to speak to a more senior person,they refused so i eventually got the number from crew control!!
those guys in STN should be thought a few lessons imho.

[D O Guerrero]

Zero,
The memo is a BAA memo (available in the crewroom). The reference is BAA DN/44/10 and it sets out the requirements for crew taking hold baggage airside. I keep the reference in the notes on my phone for just such an occasion!
BTW I think the rule is that you have to go through Enterprise House if you have hold baggage so that is why you may have problems at VP9. I've never had any issues at Enterprise House - although I did see a guy once getting told he couldn't take his bag through. Then again, it was a fully loaded huge Samsonite case.

[Admiral346]

My BHX overnight went fine, the security was as always:

A bit grumpy but not unfriendly, my briefcase was searched after I had agreed to it, and aside from looking into the case of my spareglasses nothing special was done.

I forgot to buy toy soldiers, so there were no complaints.

So aside from the utter senslesness of having to put liquids into a plastic bag, there's nothing to complain about for me.

[Sark]

Does anyone know the jobs worth who was on duty at Southampton Airport at around 6.30 last night? If you do tell him what a **** my family think he is.

Not only is the security at the Airport some of the strictest anywhere that I have travelled and I do travel a lot. They also seem to employ staff who know how to rub their passengers up the wrong way by their amazingly rude attitude. It is not only the one guy but the majority, not all, of the staff.

Let us be fair you do not have to have many brain cells to perform the task but there is no need to take their inadequacies out on the travelling public.

This guy shouted at me three times, each time louder and more threateningly "Empty your pockets" when he could see that I was just about to do that after his first request. Most airports accept change in pocket which I asked him about removing. The thing that got me pretty cross was that there was not a please in amongst his demands. It was only when I looked at him and said "please" did he utter the word reluctantly. I was hopeful that he was remorseful but no. His next request was just one word. "Watch!" I duly removed it as, of course, in all things these half wits have the ultimate authority and ability to thoroughly disrupt your life. It used to be fun to fly but no longer especially through Southampton Airport. Rant over until the next time I use the Airport.

All I wanted was the word please!

[carousel]

Bang on the money, if Jumpseat crew wish to take hold luggage use VP2 (enterprise house) and arrange your & baggage collection by handling agent, who will of course ensure that hold luggage goes in the hold and not in to passenger area where of course the correct sized hand luggage fits.

[mixture]

with no "Contact us" option

Apart from that thing that says "Contact Us" in the grey bar at the top ? :cool:

Well hidden I agree.... but then I guess you would if you were given the option of SLF phoning you every two minutes to find out if Granny's flight has arrived.

[stuckgear]

Brilliant ! :hmm:


High-tech face recognition gates at Manchester Airport were suspended - after they allowed a man back into the country on his wife's passport.


It is understood the blunder was picked up by an immigration officer, who was double checking the data on a computer, and he was stopped before he left Terminal One.


It is thought the couple accidentally swapped passports and the woman was not able to pass through the gates.




Manchester Airport security blunder: Woman boards flight on stranger's boarding card | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357949/Manchester-Airport-security-blunder-Woman-boards-flight-strangers-boarding-card.html#ixzz1EF10UOY4)