WestJet lease of bigger plane spurs long-haul talk

[a330pilotcanada]

Good Morning All:

This is off of Reuters but the interesting part of this is at the last of the report.

The aircraft comes from North American Airlines which will not only lease the aircraft but with pilots, flight attendants and maintenance engineers.

It would be intersting to hear from our friends in CYYC how this went over when it was announced by their management.


WestJet lease of bigger plane spurs long-haul talk

Stocks

WestJet Airlines Ltd.
WJA.TO
$13.77
+0.00+0.00%
12:00am EST

Air Canada, Inc.
ACa.TO
$3.64
+0.04+1.11%
12:00am EST

Air Canada, Inc.
ACb.TO
$3.63
+0.02+0.55%

Dec 21, 2010 3:48pm EST

Current fleet comprised only of Next-Gen 737 aircraft

International routes proving to be profitable

VANCOUVER Dec 21 (Reuters) - WestJet Airlines Ltd's (WJA.TO (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=WJA.TO)) announcement on Tuesday that it will lease a big long-range plane has sparked speculation the airline is thinking of abandoning its commitment to a single-type fleet of planes so that it can fly longer-haul routes.

WestJet, Canada's second-biggest airline, said on Tuesday it will operate a leased Boeing 757-200 to provide nonstop service between its base in Alberta and Hawaii from mid-February to end-April next year.

Until now, WestJet has operated a fleet of Boeing Next-Generation 737 aircraft, flying to destinations in Canada, the United States, the Caribbean and Mexico (http://www.reuters.com/places/mexico).

The single-type fleet has been a key plank in its low-cost strategy as flying only one type of plane reduces costs such as training and maintenance.

But the 737's range is limited and WestJet could be looking for avenues to expand.

"We view the news as an indication that WestJet may introduce larger aircraft into their fleet going down the road in an effort to compete on longer-haul routes," RBC Capital Markets airline analyst Walter Spracklin said.

"Other airlines are growing significantly in international routes due to the sizable demand. We know these are profitable routes," he said.

Air Canada (ACa.TO (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=ACa.TO)) (ACb.TO (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=ACb.TO)), WestJet's bigger rival, boosted operating income five-fold in its most recent quarter, partly because of strong demand on international routes.

WestJet said there was no truth to the talk that it would add variety to its fleet to fly further afield.

"This is not the beginning of a new fleet type or a fleet change, but rather, a clear demonstration that we have the creativity, flexibility and commitment to assert our competitive advantage in the market, particularly in Alberta," spokesman Robert Palmer said.

The winter and spring months are a popular time for Canadians to escape to warmer destinations such as Hawaii. WestJet last spring also operated a nonstop flight from Alberta to Hawaii using its own 737-700 aircraft, but it could not sell all the seats due to weight and fuel constraints.

WestJet is leasing the 757-200 from North American Airlines, a charter air service provider and a subsidiary of Global Aviation Holdings [GLALG.UL].

North American will provide pilots, flight attendants and maintenance engineers to operate and service the aircraft.

WestJet's stock was down 1 Canadian cent at C$13.70 on the Toronto Stock Exchange on Tuesday afternoon against the trend of a firmer market.

($1=$1.02 Canadian) (Reporting by Nicole Mordant; editing by Peter Galloway

[North of Somewhere]

From what I'm hearing it went over very well with both the FAs and the pilots. I hear Greg went to great pains to explain things in detail so there would be no misconceptions which would lead to idle speculation. I have yet to hear any grumblimgs from anyone.

[Flexable]

How many pax in North American 757-200??

[royalterrace]

193.......

[bcflyer]

I have a couple of friends that work there and I can tell you that there are some grumblings. (albeit quiet ones for now) Some are pissed about losing the flying (and of course the layovers) and others are upset that they have delayed taking delivery of 737's along with any possible upgrades and are now wet leasing another A/C to do their flying.

WJ does a very good job at keeping these kind of concerns out of the public eye but they are still there.....

[royalterrace]

bcflyer

Of course there is some grumbling.

You get a thousand pilots and there will always be some on the other side of ANY issue.

I would estimate the high 90's percentile are onside this program.

[gasbag1]

Wonder why they don't just put in the belly tank in the 737-700 to make the flight? Wetlease of an American 757 is a dangerous gamble to the WJ pilots. It might be great for the corporation but bad for advancement. Time will tell.

[bcflyer]

I always find it amazing how quickly they circle the wagons at the teal team as soon as there is any mention of dissention in the ranks.. I'd be willing to bet that there are alot more than %10 of the pilots worried about this...

[J.O.]

That's a bet you would lose.

[royalterrace]

"I always find it amazing how quickly they circle the wagons at the teal team as soon as there is any mention of dissention in the ranks.. I'd be willing to bet that there are alot more than %10 of the pilots worried about this..."

Interesting.....I always find it amazing at how quickly some look to criticize our way of doing things. Seems to be working pretty well so far.

As for circling the wagons...it sure is better than beating one another to death and internal infighting.

[North of Somewhere]

I have yet to talk to anyone who thinks this is a bad idea. I have yet to talk to anyone who thinks this is anything other than a good idea that might actually help some guys get their 4th bar. You call it circling the wagons... I like to think of it as calling you on your bu// shi//.

[bcflyer]

I have yet to talk to anyone who thinks this is a bad idea. I have yet to talk to anyone who thinks this is anything other than a good idea that might actually help some guys get their 4th bar. You call it circling the wagons... I like to think of it as calling you on your bu// shi//.

Perhaps you should have a look at the thread on Avcanada about this very thing..AVCANADA • View topic - 757 for Hawaii? (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=67974) Its pretty obvious that there are pilots who are concerned about this. And thats just the guys willing to post their thoughts. My friends that are concerned about it are also very cautious about mentioning anything at work that is not in line with company policy. If the reactions posted here are any indication of what happens to someone who speaks out I can see why.....

[North of Somewhere]

You bring us AvCanada as a source? You got to do better than that.

[Left Coaster]

Yeah, no kidding! As an aside, and in ref to a comment above, it's quite funny to listen to, and watch the flailing of hands when someone makes any disparaging (sp?) remarks against precious WS...the teal and blue team comes charging and the hail of playground smack talk thrown back is pretty cute! I suppose the corporate culture forbids individuals from standing up for themselves if they believe in something...sad...:ouch:

[royalterrace]

I did'nt think I was flailing my hands.

I thought I was adding INFORMATION. Look closely...I actually agreed with bcflyer , although after sifting through his link I was only able to find 3 grumblers with only one of those having a serious burr up his butt. Like I said , there are always differing opinions but I would imagine that even those that are against this are still pretty happy to be where they are.

You guys go ahead and believe what you want. It really makes no difference to the outcome.

[bcflyer]

You bring us AvCanada as a source? You got to do better than that

As opposed to what? What would you consider a good source? This forum? They are all the same. Posts written by anonymous people who may or may not even work at WJ.
What I do know is that some of my friends who fly there have told me face to face that they're concerned about where this deal could lead. I personally don't care what WJ does. I don't work there. My point is that not everyone is ok with giving away long, high credit legs and Hawaii overnights. To believe otherwise is akin to drinking the koolaid and then burying your head in the sand.

[clunckdriver]

As one West Jetter said to me, "A 757 will take a lot of the pucker factor out of the last 100 miles on HNL flights",{ He was then grabbed and given a large Kool Aid by management to correct his attitude. }

[1049]

Tough to compete against AC's 767's direct to Hawaii from YYC when you need to minimise middle seat sales to maximise range and depending on the winds across you might still need to drop into a west coast airport for fuel :O. Unless you change the Westjet model as a "LCC" they needed to wet lease the 757's to keep the route viable. It was good to see AC go back to YYC and do the Hawaii legs direct. Good for competition and customers:ok:.

[bunkhog]

I see permanent teal coloured Kool-Aid stains around many mouths there.

Until they join ALPA.

The bloom is just taking a little longer to come off the rose than most thought. Two trips to DCA to talk to ALPA a couple of years ago? Thought the kool-aid party was over then.

A few more years of Captains having to groom cabins ought to do it...coupled with FO's sitting right seat for a decade as orders dwindle.

But no worries...you guys are outsourcing flying. That'll get the promotion train chuggin along again!

[royalterrace]

Looks good

WestJet 757!!! | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wee_in_yyc/5446680518/)

[zallith]

Looks Great! Nice job! :)

[North of Somewhere]

Very very nice paint job. I love this company. :)

[CIAS]

Love it too, been gone for 4 years now but having spent many years in blue and teal I am still very proud of it.

Whoops just spilt some koolaid raising my glass in a toast!! :ok:

[Left Coaster]

Look into my eyezzzzzz...you are getting veeerrryyy sslleeepppyyy...
Frik! You people are brainwashed! Wake up! Your long haul flying is slipping away while you stand around and admire the decals! On a tail that isn't yours! :ooh:

[CIAS]

Q4 YOY 100%+ net profit increase, short term lease to test / push the market, aggressive network expansion through interline coupled with organic growth, contraversial deferral of new B737NG deliveries with a very loyal vendor, healthy airline in a shi**y industry.... Yeah you're right, lets focus on long haul flying from a narrowwwwww self servingggggg perspectivvvvve.....Marverick to Iceman out.

[North of Somewhere]

+1K ^

And Left Coaster et al: I suspect u don't work here do u? So why do u care what we do here at this company? U seem to be very agitated about this whole lease thing, and you don't understand at all what is going on over here. So why are u and your ilk so openly negative about this?

[er340790]

Bugger Hawaii! And bugger that 752!

If it's aggressive expansion they're after, how about a fleet of new 777s serving London, Manchester, Paris, Brussels and Frankfurt.

[b737NGyyc]

As one West Jetter said to me, "A 757 will take a lot of the pucker factor out of the last 100 miles on HNL flights",{ He was then grabbed and given a large Kool Aid by management to correct his attitude. }

What a load of unqualified crap. Do you have any idea of the fuel requirements for ETOPS flight in a B737?? There are absolutely no such fuel concerns on any B737 flights to HNL or OGG from either Canada of the mainland US. The only reason for tech stops on these flights during rare occasions of pineapple express winds are the additional diversion fuel requirements at CP. Under normal circumstances we will land in the islands with approximately 2 hours of fuel on board. Which under any circumstances is a respectable amount.

[clunckdriver]

"Unqualified Crap" So a fellow pilot who is in fact senior to you and is also a CP is "Unqualified" to make a rather funny observation? Lighten up for Gods sake!

[nolimitholdem]

I have a heck of a lot of colleagues at WS and to a person, the ones I've spoken with casually, no one is thrilled about seeing company routes being flown another company. Of course they are trying to be positive about how it diminishes the risk to the company, but to say that anyone is thrilled about it seems pretty off the mark.

WS management are smart but they aren't saints. And this "****ty industry" is only going to get ****tier with oil headed on the rise again, bigtime. Anything that can reduce costs WILL be done, and there's a whole bunch of 737 drivers that just might be surprised to find that a "temporary, seasonal, experimental" etc etc move somehow never quite goes away and actually gets expanded.

This isn't fear-mongering, just basic history and economics.

As an aside I can't really say I would consider the 757 a big airplane, it's a slightly bigger narrowbody than the 737 but that's about it. I would think the operating costs would be disproportionately higher than a NG, what with less efficient engines. I do think it (the '57) is the sexiest airliner ever made, for sure.

[20driver]

your airline has to make money. The best paid pilots in the USA right now are FEDEX, SWA and UPS, companies that have always made money. (Both FEDEX and UPS sub charter when they need temporary lift, don't know about SWA but pretty sure the would it they had to)

If Westjet pilots want a long term job that pays well it is in the pilots interest for the management to do what it takes to keep a route making money. Obviously if they could do it with the equipment in house they would as it would make more money for the company.

Can you tell me one profitable airline that went bust? I can list you dozens of unprofitable ones that no longer have any pilot jobs.

It may come as a shock to AC pilots, but airlines are no longer cartels that don't have to worry about minor details like being a business.

If I worked for Westjet my biggest concerns would be the first the company makes a profit, second it manages growth in a reasonable way. I would rather they bring in some lift then run a route that can't make money just to keep a few jobs going.

The last thing I'd do is listen to an AC pilot. It is in their interest for WJ to go bust.

[nolimitholdem]

Not sure if that's aimed at me, but for what it's worth I don't work for AC, and never have. I have no interest in WS going bust, and I highly doubt anyone at AC wishes this either.

Every airline that is profitable...is, right up until it isn't. That wasn't the point being discussed. Only that the idea that everyone flying at WestJet is just thrilled to bits that another company has painted a WestJet logo on their airplane, is not quite accurate. Nor is celebrating the fact a great idea. It's good the company is conservative, but it's step down a perilous road when you begin outsourcing your own operation.

[Left Coaster]

Sadly, NOLIMIT, there is no way to win the argument or come to any sort of agreement...the propaganda is believed and repeated day after day and the rest of us non believers know nothing! :rolleyes:

[royalterrace]

Lefty and NLH

Why so sad? Some sort of need to win every argument?

Damn right we are profitable...and have been for all but 2 quarters in the last 15 years. I think that just may be representative of a trend...

Propaganda? Do you know what that word means? The reason that WestJet employee's defend their company is that they are treated well and that management follows through on their promises for the most part. It isn't perfect but it's pretty damn good and those who have been around awhile know and appreciate it.

The 757 has been chocked full...making money...adding to the 1.2 billion we have in the bank. I think I can sleep at night without worrying that big bad management is out to screw us.

[nolimitholdem]

hi royalterrace,

lol Didn't realize we were arguing...as I said I have many colleagues at WestJet and I wish them well. But those colleagues are more apprehensive, than pleased about your company logo appearing on another company's aircraft. There's not really much of an argument there, just stating a fact. It's nice you see it the 757 as a positive.

Sad? I'm pleased that your company is doing well, as is my own. (925 million USD net profit for 1st half fiscal 2010 so far - the full year results should be interesting). Hopefully with oil set to go through the roof again it can continue.

[b737NGyyc]

"Unqualified Crap" So a fellow pilot who is in fact senior to you and is also a CP is "Unqualified" to make a rather funny observation? Lighten up for Gods sake!

It was and is a false statement. I fly these routes regularly and can honestly tell you there is no pucker factor with regards to fuel. Just as required to we keep a very close eye on fuel burns, flight planned vs actual. If it is safe and legal we go if not we don't, the numbers do not lie.

"senior to me" really I didn't realize this forum had a seniority list.

As to your qualifications, none of that is verifiable on an anonymous forum.

You was the one making derogatory statements toward another pilot group and questioning their professionalism and decision making skills. Hello pot, it is the kettle calling.

[clunckdriver]

How about the the CEO at Rolls Royce who when asked why he only flew the Atlantic in four engined aircraft replied' "My dear chap, they just dont make any with five", so would you like to rail at him for having a sense of humour? I could explain to you that I have way more time ETOPS/EROPS than many on this forum, but I think I will just stick to "Lighten up for Gods sake!"

[North of Somewhere]

"Sadly, NOLIMIT, there is no way to win the argument or come to any sort of agreement...the propaganda is believed and repeated day after day and the rest of us non believers know nothing!"

Looks like the stock market is on the side of the believers my friends. :cool:

[GMC1500]

All I can say is that at any company I worked for in canada, or at my present for that matter, had some other pilots started flying our prime route on bigger aircraft than we ever flew, nobody would be tolerating it, let alone be happy about it.
Go figure.
Listen I give all props to my friends at WJ. I know they are happy there. Maybe I would be too if I were there. But I can't imagine that being an easy pill to swallow. We all want to have the chance to fly the bigger planes on the best routes. Its human nature. Yes, I get that it might be better for the company's bottom line. But I know I wouldn't like it. I'd be biting my lip.
Damn. Sorry guys.

[crazy woman]

757 is the sexiest aircraft.
big jugs, long legs and skinny body