Headsets are so damn espensive

[Locarno]

hello all,
I've been looking around frantically for a new headset which i desperately need, and it keeps coming back to one thing. The Bose A20. The problem being that I can't quite afford to knock out a grand in a lump sum.

Does anyone know of anywhere that offers headsets on credit/hire purchase?

If not, then what is the best:cheapest ratio headset available?


Thanks for your help!

Jason.

[Katamarino]

You appear to have chosen the Ferrari of headsets. Perhaps try something a little further down the range? Many pilot shops will let you try out some sets to see which you prefer.

I have had a set of DCs for 5+ years, which I have now had converted by a member of the other forum to active noise reduction, and they are superb! Total cost less than hald that of the Bose.

[PilotPieces]

What about the older bose model? £700 ish

[BackPacker]

You can get in-ear "head"sets, like Clarity Aloft and a few other brands, for much less. And their passive NR is supposedly better than a normal headsets ANR. If you can cope with the feeling of having something in your ear canal, that is.

I have no experience with them myself but I'm currently taking a good look at them. I've got a PNR headset at the moment and want to upgrade to something that's better suitable for aerobatics.

[trex450]

what are you flying?

[Mark1234]

Or try a couple of hundred for a perfectly servicable standard headset. If the noise bothers you, stick some earplugs (foam things) in your ears, and turn up the volume on the intercom.

Confess I'm tempted by the clarity aloft and the like - mainly because I suspect it would be liberating to remove the weight from one's head whilst aerobatting, but to be honest, my 3 year old DC's are as good as new, so I have no excuse..

[A and C]

If you get out of the overpriced CTC training hold pool with the money you save you can buy your self a bose headset and a small aircraft to plug it into!

[IO540]

The A20 (I have one) is truly a lot better than the old Bose X (of which I have three).

And the Bose X is at the very top of the headset market - equalled only by the Lightspeed Zulu, and possibly one David Clarke headset which is OK if you like your head to be like this (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/66/153324001_4b32e5f240_o.jpg) (due to the vice-like pressure) after a few flights :)

If you plan to fly long-term then buy a Bose.

[Runaway Gun]

...and if the expense bothers you, then consider the implications of saving a few quid and risking losing your hearing in a few years.

I SAID "IF THE EXPENSE BOTHERS......."

[Pilot DAR]

Bose are superb, and David Clark are excellent. Others I have seen are really poor.

I have a set of DC ANC, and honestly I prefer the regular DC H10-30's which I have had for more than 25 years. I have found David Clark product support, for the very few times I have needed it (the ANC's were once) to be outstanding, and I am very pleased to support a company, who supports me.

I'm not knocking the Bose though, I just don't want that much investment into something which could see those extremems of environment, or end up in the lake (when you get out quickly as the dock nears, and the cord wraps around your leg on the way out!)

Avoid "cheap" headsets, you get what you pay for...

[mutt]

Have you considered the Bose QC15 with the Ufly Mike? It will cost about $500. Its much more comfortable than the Bose X.

Mutt

[SNS3Guppy]

If you're looking to protect your hearing, a David Clark type headset with extra foam (oregon aero kits) is the way to go. If you're looking for comfort and improved communication, then Bose does an excellent job.

The A20 is good enough that on a flight a month ago, one of the crew loaned his A20 to a check airman and a flight engineer, and they decided to buy one. The flight engineer put in an order as soon as he reached the hotel room; they're that good.

I use a Bose QC-15, with the Uflymic. It's the same electronics and the same headset technology as the A20, but a lot less expensive. The uflymic provides excellent clarity, and has options for music input, or the ability to use a backup set of earbuds. The installation is fully STC'd, and works very well (and folds flat into the flight case to keep from taking up much room).

I've used the Bose X quite a bit, and it's an excellent headset as well.

That said, you don't need to spend that much money if you're simply looking for a headset, and if you won't be using it much. I typically fly between 80 and 120 hours a month, and wear the headset for 6 to 10 hours at a time, so comfort and clarity are important. I communicate with a lot of different foreign controllers, some of which are very difficult to understand; the Bose makes understanding them much easier. It's not a necessity, however, if you're flying locally for short periods.

I have several headsets which are basic non-attenuating headsets; these are models such as the Flightcom 4DX, which cost a little over a hundred dollars when I originally purchased it. I invested in the oregon aero earseals, hush kit (foam for each earcup), and the oregon aero headband for comfort. I flew with that headset in extremely loud airplanes for hundreds of hours, comfortably (the airplanes in which I used it make a 172 sound like a glider, by comparison, so if it worked sandwiched between 4 R2600's at full bore, it will work ever so much better in a light piston single or twin. And it does.

The Bose A20 is a great headset, as are the other bose products. Lightspeed makes good headsets too; the lightspeed zulu is comparable and costs less. Several manufacturers make headsets that won't break the bank, but will serve you very, very well. David Clark offers excellent customer service and has a reputation for supporting their products no matter what (I've known people who ran over one with a car, and they still replaced it). If cost is an issue (is it ever not?), don't feel you have to own the Bose A20; you have other choices.

Having said that, Bose offers a payment plan for their headsets which makes them available to almost anyone.

[Locarno]

Thank you everyone and thank you SNS3Guppy.

I've just started flying the 738 for RYR (so that'd be me out of the super expensive CTC holdpool then)

The Bose QC-15 really does interest me, it's not something I had considered 'til now.

The reason I started this topic was to see if any headset was available on finance. My old man always told me to 'buy the best you can afford'. Now theres absolutely no doubt I cannot currently afford the A20 (Hence asking about finance) but I WILL be able to get it, so I'm just looking to get it a bit sooner than I otherwise would, rather than spending a few hundred pounds only to spend a few hundred more down the line.
(Plus I'm finding the ole Telex 750s absolutely rubbish, especially when talking to the Italians...)


But yeah, you mention that Bose have a payment plan scheme - I really haven't been able to find that. Anyone have any links?

Thanks again,
Jason.

[IO540]

Various people have tried the QC-15 but it doesn't have anywhere near enough attenuation for SE piston aircraft.

My girlfriend and I had it on a trial a year or two ago (for airline travel). The ANR was crap, with a clearly audible hiss (which is not an uncommon issue with cheap ANR headsets) and the overall attenuation was comparable for a crap £100 aviation headset.

Comfy to wear but not much good for flying SE piston.

May well work in a jet or similar - if they have fixed the hissing. Bose did not comment on the hissing so we sent it back for a refund.

It's just a shame that the pilot shops have shelves full of headsets ranging from just-usable to crap, and this is what keeps Bose in business with such (IMHO) overpriced headsets. Bose are like Jeppesen - there is no choice but to pay up :)

[SNS3Guppy]

But yeah, you mention that Bose have a payment plan scheme - I really haven't been able to find that. Anyone have any links?

Now: 0% Interest From Bose (http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/popup/promo/pop_bose_consumer_financing.jsp)

Now: 0% interest from Bose

Choose the Bose® payment plan and make low monthly payments using your own credit card—with 0% APR and no interest charges from Bose. Just tell us which card you wish to use and select the 6- or 12-month payment option.

The Bose® payment plan is available on orders of $299 – $1500* paid by major credit card. The 6-month option (web-based orders only) includes an initial down payment of 1/6 the product price plus tax and shipping charges, charged when your order is shipped. Then your credit card will be billed for five (5) equal, monthly installments beginning approximately one month from the date your order is shipped. The 12-month option includes an initial down payment of 1/12 the product price plus tax and shipping charges, charged when your order is shipped. Then your credit card will be billed for eleven (11) equal, monthly installments beginning approximately one month from the date your order is shipped.

Credit card rules and interest may apply. US residents only. Limit one active financing program per customer. Cannot be combined with gift cards or promotional cards. Order confirmation, payment schedules and other pertinent financing information will be sent to your billing address.

*Separate financing options may be available on select products.

Comfy to wear but not much good for flying SE piston.

They work great in single engine piston, multi engine piston, single and multi engine turboprop, and turbojet aircraft.

May well work in a jet or similar - if they have fixed the hissing. Bose did not comment on the hissing so we sent it back for a refund.


They work great in a jet. They work great in a lot of other equipment, too. Mine has no hissing.

Various people have tried the QC-15 but it doesn't have anywhere near enough attenuation for SE piston aircraft.

They work fine in single engine piston equipment.

[excrab]

Locarno,

Have you tried the telex 850? I've used it in classics and NGs (including talking to Italians). It's ANR, same weight as the 750 so it's comfortable after a ten hour plus day, and it runs off the aircraft mic bias current so you don't need to worry about replacing batteries - and it's much cheaper than the Bose...

[FullyFlapped]

US residents only.

Well, that's b*ggered that then !

Merry Christmas everyone !

FF :ok:

[IO540]

I thought Mr Guppy was in Afghanistan, avoiding small arms fire. I can see a need for a headset which provides good all-round hearing in that case.

[Andy H]

Have you tried ebay? These might be what you want
aircraft headsets on eBay (end time 24-Dec-10 23:04:27 GMT) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aircraft-headsets-/280604336991?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item415552635f)

[Ultra long hauler]

If you plan to fly long-term then buy a Bose.

Anybody has any experience with Sennheiser?--> for audio it´s out brand of choice in the house. But for pilot headsets………I just wouldn´t know!

For your convenience, here´s the link of a particular Sennheiser I´m considering purchasing:

Sennheiser HMEC-460 ANR Headset - MyPilotStore.com (http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/4178)

###Ultra Long Hauler###

[TR24]

That place also sells them refurbished saving more money.

[Zulu Alpha]

The best noise reduction is Clarity Aloft. I have tried Bose, DC and many others. However, some people don't like the earpieces in their ears.

Most of the aerobatic pilots use Clarity as they are very lightweight and by far the best in a noisy cockpit.

Happy Xmas

[Humaround]

I have to say i think most aviation headsets are extremely overpriced, when you look at the actual product. Particularly Bose, who overprice many of their products on the basis of the strength of their brand. Not saying they aren't good but nearly £1000? Come on.

Of course it's a small market compared with, say, domestic and professional audio headphones - maybe that's why the usual market competition forces don't as well as they might.

[SNS3Guppy]

Part of the expense attached to aviation headsets vs. non-aviation headsets, particularly nearly identical ones, is that the aviation headsets are TSO'd, meeting technical standard order criteria.

David Clark, for example, produces nearly identical headphones for industrial use, which aren't TSO'd headsets. Use a different plug on the end and a different microphone appropriate to the application, and you have the same components in the same headsets. Telex does the same.

The QC-15 headset previously mentioned is an off-the-shelf audio headphone for listening to music. It costs three hundred dollars. The new A20 was patterned off the QC-15, and uses the same technology. The A20 was the Bose X stepping up to QC-15 standards in fact (plus it added a music input and bluetooth capability).

The uflymic is a TSO'd microphone assembly that accepts a music input (no bluetooth), which plugs into the CQ-15, effectively providing the same audio capability, sound clarity, and transmission capability as the A20, but for substantially less. Add the earbuds that the company sells, and the entire assembly becomes fully TSO'd and capable, with redundant backup.

I thought Mr Guppy was in Afghanistan,

A week and a half ago, I was.

Presently I'm at home with my family, enjoying both Christmas and New Year. Thanks for your abiding interest and deep concern.

The QC with uflymic was there with me, incidentally, and doing an excellent job.

Anybody has any experience with Sennheiser?--> for audio it´s out brand of choice in the house. But for pilot headsets………I just wouldn´t know!

Not impressed. I've used sennheisers, and didn't like them. Others with whom I work have bought them, and don't care much for them. On-ear, vs. over-the-ear makes a lot of difference in comfort. An earpiece which rests against the ear, instead of surrounding it, tends to create hotspots, and doesn't offer nearly the sound attentuation or clarity that an earcup going around the ear will do.

Having said that, the particular headset you're after is an earcup headset, going around the ear. I wasn't very impressed with Sennheisers quality or sound, but your experience may be different. The particular headset that you linked looks rather bulky and not too robust; for that kind of money I'd much rather have something that will hold up to some abuse.

As for the headsets referenced on ebay, the avcoms, I have several of them, each modified with the oregon aero products I mentioned earlier in the thread. they've all held up perfectly for quite a few years now. No problem at all. Again, one doesn't need to spend a lot of money to have good communication that lasts, and that provides excellent hearing protection.

[Mickey Kaye]

Don't forget that some of the less popular headsets work well. Maybe not as well as an A20 but offer much better value for money.

I picked up a pair David Clark H10-13XL ANR for 250 quid "brand new". The minted previous owner didn't like them so I got them for a song having been used for less than 5 hours. Lets face it there are alot of people in aviation with more money then sense so there is some hanger chat bargains to be found.

Having now used them for the last two years I have to say I am very pleased with them and have now sold my too feeble for instructing lightspeed zulus.

Yes they are not perfect - battery life isn't great (5 hours with rechargeables) heavier than bose-x etc but they are more than upto the job far better than any passive headset I have owned and are built like a brick****house so should last me another 25 years or so.

[SNS3Guppy]

Batteries in the Bose run about fifty hours.

If I had to change batteries every five hours, I'd be changing them twice during every flight.

[Mickey Kaye]

Apparently non rechargeables last alot longer. Rechargeable PP3 are 8.4 volts rather than 9.0V which accounts for the shorter life.

I'm tight so I go with rechargeables.

[411A]

(Plus I'm finding the ole Telex 750s absolutely rubbish, especially when talking to the Italians...)


Strange...I've been talking to Italians and about fifty other nationalities for fifteen years with the Telex 750, and find no problems whatsoever.
Perhaps...it's what is under the headset that is the problem...:ugh:

[IO540]

Non-rechargeables always last longer, for both versions of any particular chemistry.

Usually there is a ~ 5x difference.

However, rechargeables are getting pretty good. The Sanyo ENELOOP "AA"-size NIMH cells are amazing; way better than traditional NICD or NIMH due to their flatter discharge behaviour, have a much lower self discharge than traditional NICD/NIMH, and are bettered only by lithium non-rech AA cells which cost £8 for a pack of 4 (but those are the very best)...

Of places I've been to in Europe, Italy and Spain have a large % of ATCOs who cannot speak or understand any English, beyond the dozen stock phrases. A good headset helps but I think familiarity with their procedures (if you can call it that), and a good ear for English so heavily accented so as to be almost illegible to a normal English person (an ability some people have, some haven't) does a lot more.

[411A]

A good headset helps but I think familiarity with their procedures (if you can call it that), and a good ear for English so heavily accented so as to be almost illegible to a normal English person (an ability some people have, some haven't) does a lot more.


Quite true.
Personally, I find it strange that some of the new(er) guys just simply don't try...just complain.
IF they complain too much...I do all the flying and they get to 'practise' their ATC skills just a bit more.


Works every time...:}

[Genghis the Engineer]

Decent headsets matter, but I think that the case is being overstated a bit here.

I have several headsets for various purposes. Yes, in a long flight on a noisy aeroplane - particularly if the intercom isn't brilliant I'll use the Bose-X. For long flights in a very quiet cockpit, I'll use a lightweight Telex. On the other hand however, for flights up to a couple of hours in a not-too noisy light aeroplane, and especially if I'm flight testing and I want to pick up on any funny noises - I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website.

Do they protect my hearing adequately? I've been wearing them in a variety of light aeroplanes for 10 years, and still pass the hearing test on a class 1 medical. So, I'd argue that they do. Given that they cost me about £90 in 2000, they've certainly given me value for money.

Most independent assessments, incidentally, tend to put the Bose first, the passive David Clarkes second, then pretty much everything else somewhere below that. So, a couple of hundred quid on a pair of decent DCs will certainly serve you well - you really don't *need* to spend £1000ish on latest model Bose.

G

[HurriRV7]

On the other hand however, for flights up to a couple of hours in a not-too noisy light aeroplane, and especially if I'm flight testing and I want to pick up on any funny noises - I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website.



Interesting point "Genghis the engineer" made about using the non-ANR headset.

I've just guiltily purchased a Lightspeed Zulu headset for Christmas (it was the magnesium that did it....). One thing that concerns me about ANR is that it will make it a lot harder to hear "grinding metal" noises? Guess time will tell.

Yes, headsets seem so very expensive for what you are getting, though 30 years ago I did purchase a lovely set of headphones for listening to music. They were several hundred AUS$'s back then, I shudder to think what they would cost now.

Likely the law of diminishing returns certainly applies "spending twice as much won't get you something that's twice as good". (except if it has magnesium...)

Regards,
Steven in Winnipeg.

[IO540]

it will make it a lot harder to hear "grinding metal" noises? Guess time will tell.

I think you will hear unusual noises just fine. These headsets attenuate mostly low freq noise.

Also, I think, noises from inside the engine are barely audible to the pilot anyway - headset or not. The noise in a closed cockpit is mostly propwash, wind, and exhaust. If a bearing is going to seize up, you probably won't hear anything.

[SNS3Guppy]

I've just guiltily purchased a Lightspeed Zulu headset for Christmas (it was the magnesium that did it....). One thing that concerns me about ANR is that it will make it a lot harder to hear "grinding metal" noises? Guess time will tell.

ANR headsets in some respects improve your ability to filter out extraneous noises and hear the airplane better.

In turbine single turboprops, I elected to go without ANR because I thought it was too quiet. In most other applications, however, I've found that ANR hasn't proven to be an impediment in the cockpit.

I use Bose at the moment, and I find that hearing other crewmembers speaking is possible with the headset on, but not easy. Bearing in mind I do have some hearing loss, I keep the headset cocked off my hear on the side I'll be listening to other crewmembers, during takeoff and landing. I do this with any type of headset, as a rule, except in circumstances where everyone is on an ICS (intercom system).

I find that with ANR on, I can still hear the airplane, from a popping circuit breaker to any chime, alarm, alert, or typical cockpit sound.

[Miroku]

Does the upgrade need to be professionally installed?

If not, any idea how much to have this done in the UK?

And who could do it?

[WorkingHard]

My son bought 2 Bose A20 as a Christmas and birthday present for me and after using them for only 4 hours have decided to buy another two for the rear seat passengers. They are so far ahead of the "current" ANR headsets we have been using. If you can afford them then go for it, it is a decision you will never regret I believe

[IO540]

I agree, but make sure they have the latest serial numbers.

Bose recalled all A20 headsets a couple of months ago. I can't find the URL ATM (it was Bose EU) but it gives the S/N (which you find inside the battery box) after which they are OK. It is the mike assembly which needs changing.

Bose say only about 1-2% of the pre- headsets were faulty but who knows? I have one of those and it works fine. But from their description it sounds like a tantalum or electrolytic capacitor fitted the wrong way round, which could have interesting results ;)

I asked Headset Services if they had the replacement mike assembly and they had not heard of the recall... so I showed them the URL. They said they have no A20 parts and the whole headset would have to go back to Bose.

These things happen. I bought a Pentax K5 camera, only to find it has pretty major sensor defects - along with approx 50% of all K5s made. The dealers have returned all stocks to Pentax, but there is no new stock due until sometime in January.

[Cows getting bigger]

Try Welcome to the A20 update page | Bose.eu - Bose® A20? Aviation Headset (http://a20update.bose.eu/index.html)

I had to swap the cable although I had no previous difficulties.

[Mickey Kaye]

"I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website."

Me too I brought a pair for my students in 1993 and they are still going strong Almost as robust as DC.

Local hanger chat gives the story that Harry Mendelsson took a pair of DC 10-40 to Taiwan and told them to make a copy but at half the price.

[ambidextrous]

[B]Locarno & anyone else reading this thread:[B]
On-Track Aviation @ Wellesbourne Mountford A/F are closing down their Pilot Shop at years end.
All items, including headsets available at 50% off RRP. Perhaps this will solve your problem of finance but be quick!
With fraternal greetings,
ambi:ok:

[funfly]

I have a couple of Dave Clark headsets that I don't use. email me if you are interested.
(also I have a Garmin 496 that I am thinking of getting rid of)

[ambidextrous]

Likewise, I have a David Clark (model H10-56) h/set, two Peltors (model 8103) and an Antisonic GA headset, no longer required.
Interested parties please 'e' mail for further info.
With fraternal greetings,
ambi:ok: