PPL, where to start

[tobster911]

Hi guys, im relatively new here, but... I want to gain my PPL, I am near Walney airfield in the North west of england and i need to find a place where i can do my training for, preferably less than £140 p/h.
I was wondering if you could help
Cheers
Tobster911

[baldwinm]

There are several flying schools at blackpool including Flight Academy Blackpool (http://www.fablackpool.com/) and Westair (http://www.westair.uk.com/).

I recommend you go and have a look. If you would prefer a modern aircraft then I would seriously consider Flight Academy. They also run non equity groups including Cirrus at £130 per month and £80 per hour.

[IanPZ]

Walney island to Blackpool? That's about 2 hours drive, from memory...

of course you could always use a RIB and cut across morcombe bay. Can't take more than 40 minutes that way :-)

[baldwinm]

'bout 2 hours to Carlisle as well I'm afraid. Walney sometimes let us do circuit practice there in the week so maybe they would pick you up for the odd lesson - it would push up the hourly cost somewhat though. Might work out more economical for certain phases of training given the reduction in travel costs and landing fees (£10+ at Blackpool).

[IanPZ]

When I started looking for somewhere to learn, I thought it was limiting that there were only 2 or 3 clubs nearby (less than 45 mins drive). I suppose that's me being all "London" eh? Sorry about that!

But 2 hours each way, and a 2 hour lesson, that's just huge. And the fuel to get there an back must cost a fair bit over the duration. Something like that would make me think about going on one of these US or European 3 week courses. Gotta be cheaper.

And what if you set off and 2 hours later, get to the airport to find the lesson cancelled. You really do have my sympathy. Must be a nightmare.

Hope you find somewhere to learn! Good luck. IPZ

[IanPZ]

Rebecca Jayne, I really hope you don't think I was trying to be discouraging. Very much the opposite! One of the things I would love to do once I pass my test is be able to come up to Cumbria in a plane. I lived for many years in Manchester, and spent as many weekends as I could around the Lake District, as it is truly beautiful.

I realised when I did a trial lesson that the nearest feeling to flying was when I had been standing on top of a mountain in the Lakes, looking down at the world around me.

One of my biggest frustrations when I moved back to London was missing all that. I'm sure its worth it, just wish it wasn't like that for you.

Good luck with the lessons!

[mrmum]

Tobster911,

What I would suggest is that you invest a day, or a couple of half-days in going up the M6 to Carlisle, then down to Blackpool. Have a serious look at the flying clubs at both places, try and make sure you talk to some instructors and customers, have a look at/sit in the aircraft, perhaps even have a half-hour trial lesson. You'll end up spending a couple of hundred pounds on trial flights, but it could be a worthwhile investment, as you'll see if there any particular aircraft/instructors you like or dislike. It's also all good experience and you can log it and count it towards the hours for a PPL, although being finished in less than minimums isn't a problem for most people.

Try not to get too bogged down with the headline hourly rate, there are other more important things to consider that can also have a big effect on the total cost to get your licence.
Do you get on with your instructor, because you're going to be spending a lot of one-on-one time with them? Are they full or part-time, how experienced are they? There are pro's and con's for both the older FI who's got loads of experience and been at it for years and the newer, younger guy who's waiting for an airline job, we shouldn't generalise, it's very much down to the individual.
Do you know what you want to do after you've got your PPL? Do you want to progress to a professional licence and fly for a living, perhaps tour the UK or Europe or potter round the Lakes on a sunny weekend. Consider how many seats you will want your aircraft to have, what range, how much all weather capability, what types of airfields/airstrips will you be using. These factors influence aircraft choice and you may find it beneficial to do your training in the kind of aircraft you'll be flying once qualified, rather than just going for the cheapest initially, then having to change as that adds to the total cost.
Do you want a NPPL or JAA-PPL, again this depends what you want to do once qualified, UK only or abroad, daytime or night as well, in reasonable weather only or with the capability to fly in cloud if needed.

Once you've decided where to go, what I would do is have 2 or 3 lessons every time you drive to the airfield, to make best use of the time and cost you've spent on the motorway and just spend the day at the flying club.

You will find quite a few organisations will offer better rates if you pay upfront for a block of lessons. There are a number of people on here who will tell you to run a mile from this type of scheme and they're not entirely wrong. However, I would say just be sensible and cautious, there are people who have seriously had their fingers burnt by paying up front, then the company going under. If you can get a good enough deal and pay by credit card, then if the worst does happen you'll at least get your money back eventually.

As to the weather issues, if you are going to be flying in the North of the UK, then that's the place you should be learning, so you get exposed to the weather with the safety of an instructor on board. Any reasonable club will let you call ahead for a weather check before leaving home. However becoming a pilot is not just about being in the aeroplane, there is plenty of stuff to do on the ground on bad weather days and there are also a few exercises in the syllabus that we tend to keep for "poor" weather days.

Flying has to be taken seriously as the consequences of not doing so can be severe, but you've also got to enjoy it because it's expensive. So don't bother too much about a couple of pounds a hour, find somewhere you like, that will do a good job that suits your needs.

[Oldpilot55]

How quickly do you want to get your licence? In the UK it will take you between 1.5 to 2 years given where you are and the distance that you will have to travel to get training.
I've learned to fly 3 times. The first when I lived 30 minutes from the airfield and that took 2 years. The second time 45 minutes from the airfield and that took 1.5 years. The third time I lived on the airfield and that took 3 weeks. The third time was in Florida and the experience was more intense, the school was organised so that you came away with a licence and the cost was hugely less. I enjoyed it immensely...other students were there to build hours or ratings so there was a mix of serious and hobby pilots.
In the UK weather is a huge factor but it was also the attitude of the club and school that I learned with. In Florida they were geared to getting you through the exams, in the UK less so. There was less pressure and less professionalism.
Other folk will tell you different so do ask about. I'm perfectly sure everyone on here will give you an honest opinion based on their experiences which will differ from mine.
The golden rule is do not pay upfront unless by credit card.

[Kolossi]

Tobster911,

It's a bit chicken-and-egg this point - if you can't sort the logistics out you may not be able to do the training depending on your personal circumstances (but here's hoping you can!).

But I'd say consider doing the medical first before you start regular lessons - it would be frustrating to put in all that hard work to find there was something that prevented you getting the full ppl.

Again here's hoping there's no issue there - but if there is there are other options (NPPL, microlights, gliding? etc) which might mean the list of possible airfields is actually larger.

Egg ... Chicken ...

All the best :ok:

Kolossi

[airpolice]

Once you've decided where to go, what I would do is have 2 or 3 lessons every time you drive to the airfield, to make best use of the time and cost you've spent on the motorway and just spend the day at the flying club.




Great advice.

[tobster911]

I have two part time jobs, one paper round and one in a hotel, but the pay, isnt what i'd call very good. It's certainl;y better than some people my age, but not enough to fund an NPPL, let alone get me up to ATPL. Thank you for your input but, So far, i've only had the site up for a day, I've got £68 of sponsoring.
Thanks

[Katamarino]

Well, good on you! Nothing wrong in going for several different sources of funding.

If you're ever in Holland, let me know and I'll take you flying :ok:

[baldwinm]

Good luck to you - it won't be easy but it can done!

Let us know how you get on.

[baldwinm]

Toby,

here is a suggestion for you.

as you are so near, join the gliding club at Walney Island - make getting your Glider Pilots licence your first goal - this will be a lot more affordable than PPL training. You will need to commit at least a weekend day a week and take part in all the acttivities needed to launch gliders etc. The experience and contacts gained may prove valuable later on. Convert your gliding licence to a NPPL - this will allow you to fly powered aircraft with some restrictions including towing gliders (but not for reward) - don't expect them to let you do this straight away though! At some point convert your NPPL to a JAA/EASA PPL which will be the starting point to your commercial training.

Overall this may prove to be the lowest cost route and at your age time is on your side.

Just a thought.

Malcolm

[tobster911]

Currently, I am part of the Lakes GC, but, due to wok commitments, and the weather, I cant get down EVERY weekend, just some. So... If i get my Gliding license, I can convert that to my NPPL, how much would this cost? and then, from that, I can just pay for another 13 hours training to get my PPL?

Thanks for all your replies, and thank you for sponsoring me...
:)

[baldwinm]

According to Welcome to the British Gliding Association (http://www.gliding.co.uk) you would need a minimum of 10 hours instruction before taking the flying test to convert to a NPPL. You would need to pass the current JAR PPL exams also.

The requirements to upgrade to a JAR PPL (from LASORS)

The holder of a NPPL with SSEA aircraft rating wishing to
obtain a JAR-FCL PPL(A) shall have completed on SEP
Aeroplanes:
a. At least 45 hours flight time, of which at least 35
hours must have been as a pilot of SEP aeroplanes.
A maximum of 5 hours may be completed in an
approved FNPT or flight simulator. This flight time
must include:
1. 20 hours dual instruction in SEP aeroplanes
with a JAR qualified instructor, which must
include instruction in those elements from the
syllabus of flight instruction for the JAR-FCL
PPL(A) not found in the syllabus of flight
instruction for the NPPL(A) rated for SSEA.
2. 10 hours solo flight time on SEP aeroplanes
which must include 5 hours solo cross country
flight time including one cross country flight of
at least 270km (150nm), during which full stop
landings at two different aerodromes different
from the aerodrome of departure shall be
made as per JAR-FCL 1.125.
b. Have passed the JAR-FCL PPL(A) Theoretical
Knowledge Examinations in all subjects (whch you would have done anyway)


Plus passing the skill test and class II medical

So overall the cost reduction might not be that great but it would be a progressive path from gliding to a full JAA PPL.

Just an option that's all.

[tobster911]

Thanks very much

[IanPZ]

RJ. I know what you are talking about. One of my first memories of the Lakes was driving up the road on the "wrong" side of Thirlmere, and watching jets pass below me. Given the road is only about 50m above the water, I always thought that was pretty impressive.

Good luck with the flying.!!