A runway hit by a snow flake. AAIB investigating now. BBC top story.

[AdamFrisch]

What is it with the Brits and snow? 90% of the airports seize up and shut down, METARS with SNOCLO, Notams issued, emissaries sent out. Meanwhile, I look out my window and see, well, just a normal wintery day with some snow on the ground.

Lydd, my local field is SNOCLO. Yet, it's a sunny day here on the coast, less than an inch of snow on the ground, if even. The cars and trains run. But not the airfield. Oh no, that needs to get shut down immediately and stay shut!

Look at the METARS for ESSA os any other northern European airports and you'll see they run fine. If ESSA can stay open in -20 with drifting snow, surely some bright chap could figure out how to run Heathrow?

Don't they have snow ploughs? Don't they know that a bit of patchy ice isn't that big a deal? We're not taking off by powering the wheels, now are we? I used to regularly land on short runways made on frozen lakes and lo and behold, I'm still alive.

I just don't get it. I think they need the Royal Marines to start to run the airports and snow clearing. Or, god forbid, could it be that all the officials are secretly relishing getting a couple of days off now that the airports are closed? Subversive thought, but sometimes one wonders...
:ouch:

[Cows getting bigger]

It would appear it is raining in California

Southland slogs through storm system of a decade - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-weather-20101220,0,4668966.story)

:p

[PBY]

I used to fly to British Airports a lot. Their management is pretty poor. They hide their inability to run an airport by quoting safety the whole time. That is also the reason why I never buy conecting flights in the winter, that go through London. Any other country seem to be more prepared. I think that the UK empire already hit the glory days long time ago.

[IO540]

They hide their inability to run an airport by quoting safety the whole time

Yes, the British disease.

In the UK, it is easy to recruit any number of useless little men who think they are really important and get a lot of satisfaction from banning something.

You can do the same elsewhere but elsewhere they tend to ignore the rules :)

A few minutes at LGW or LHR makes it obvious to any businessman how bad the management is and what an empire building exercise the whole setup has become.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<You can do the same elsewhere but elsewhere they tend to ignore the rules >>

And aviation in the UK stays safe....

[Radar]

And aviation in the UK stays safe....

As opposed to .............. ????

[Rod1]

“And aviation in the UK stays safe”

Yes – Grounded! The rest of the world must be ever so impressed.

Rod1

[maxred]

Yes HD, with that you have just summed it up nicely.:mad::mad::mad:

Obviously totally lost in the irony:hmm:

[Doodlebug]

Heathrow,

Erm... that sounds exactly like the approach/attitude the other poster was alluding to.

You should see the Ukrainians just get on with it in -20 and below. Small houses are completely obliterated by the snow and the airports just doggedly keep going, ops normal. Aircraft aren't continuously going off the edges either.

In Kiev they have this antique jet strapped onto the back of a lorry. It's angled side- and downwards. Boris, Sergey and Oleg take turns cruising around the runways, taxiways and aprons with this contraption. Boy does it get rid of contamination, as well as any FOD (including small piston aircraft and stray dogs) Sounds satisfyingly politically incorrect/un-green too. Maybe the U.K. could send some management-types over for lessons? (oops, sorry, they can't because the airports are all so safe and closed, silly me...)

[Jan Olieslagers]

Well, I must have acquired a beginning of a reputation for chiding the Brits in general and their world of flying in particular - but to be honest my own national airport is at the point of practically closing down for lack of deicing glycol, not very impressive either. Rather ridiculous in fact, seeing the amounts of effort and money spent to keep the runways operational.

To my eyes the problem seems to be quite general in Europe, not limited to aviation nor to any single country. Take France, disallowing entry of all trucking from abroad. And indeed from the former socialist countries I hear mostly "business as usual" - meaning "like each winter". We're simply loosers, here in Western Europe: economically we're second to China, physically to Russians and their neighbours, and probably to many more.

[Mark1234]

Seems pretty ridiculous to me, especially considering that there hasn't been any fresh snowfall here in the last 2 days - wtf?

[1800ed]

Once again, we're the laughing stock of Europe. So good to be British :ok:

[IO540]

If LGW or LHR got half of their yellow jackered Awfully Self Important "security" people to each pick up a shovel, they would have the snow cleared in no time at all.

But it is much easier to build an empire based on Safety or Security than on snow clearance :)

[AdamFrisch]

And here I was thinking I would be shot down in flames as a foreigner criticizing, but instead you all agree with me!
;)

[Jan Olieslagers]

...as already mentioned 5 replies earlier ...

[Miroku]

Maybe they could get someone from Buffalo Airways to show them how it's done.................

[IO540]

with Brussels airport announcing that they are closed from today Monday till at least Wednesday morning due to lack of deicer.

They host the EU HQ so this sounds reasonable.

Somebody nicked all the deicer to lubricate the typewriters knocking out the doctored committee Minutes.

[austerwobbler]

I took the kids to lapland this time last year and they where ploughing the runway at Enoticio before we landed , and de iced the plane and ploughed again for take off !

[Jan Olieslagers]

You must have been a strong parent to get your kids to that degree of discipline - ploughing the runway pre-landing!

[jamie2004]

First of all, i would say its slightly harsh to completely write off us Brits at being completely useless when it comes to any form of wintry weather. We are lumbered with a temperate climate which makes it hard to predict whats going to happen from one week to the next at this time of year. Im certain that there's plenty of other countries on this planet that would succumb to the same sorts of difficulties in which we seem to be faced with at present......excluding Scandanavia, Russia and Alaska of course!

[blueandwhite]

What Heathrow should do is buy a load of snow clearing kit, should only cost a few million to buy enough.

Then the moaners can complain if its not needed for any snow for the next 30years that the maintenance is too much.

If it is needed they can complain that the maintenance is too much for a few days a year.

If its needed more than a few days a year they can complain that its not good enough for the job.

Or we can ignore the knee jerk reactions as just more complaining cos we Brits are still world class at complaining.


(I will be carefully reading all the complaints this post generates and considering all the points raised. I do over do the sarcasm occasionally)

[AN2 Driver]

This time, the UK is by far not alone in this. Since last Friday, things have come apart almost as bad as when the volcano saga hit, but this time, I am amazed at the extent.

Had the interesting experience to have a look at Frankfurt last Friday. They were trying to operate, but the terminal space just was FULL of folks queuing up for long cancelled flights. Therefore, there was no way people for later flights could reach check in and even if, their planes would be long gone before they reached the bag drop off. I hear they got the police in later tht day, to separate masses of waiting punters ready to declare civil war.

It was fascinating and scary to see society come apart in that situation. Mobiles would no longer work due to overload, freedom of movement was severely restricted due to the crowds and anyone trying to get past the crowd to an empty desk of a different airline had to fear for life and limb.

Yet, the snow cover there was some 10 cm. Heck, the only day I recall we ever closed the airport for most of the day here was 35 cm plus. Ok, once you get there, one runway end will simply be contaminated this way or the other, but 10 cm?

Really glad I don't work in airports which give in to just a hatchoum of Mrs Holle....

[destinationsky]

These forums really do make me laugh! For all of those who are up in their ivory towers, I suggest you climb down, pick up a shovel and help clear the runways and taxiways. Unless you are informed and well practiced at Runway/Taxiway/Stand clearance, I suggest you keep your opinions and b*tching to yourselves. Airfield Ops staff are working their nuts off at the moment. How about a well done for what they have done????

[englishal]

I suppose in a typical British attitude, once a snow flake falls, all the schools shut and people *can't* get to work.

In other Euro countries, they just get on with it.

[pulse1]

It is not enough to "just buy the equipment" required for snow clearance. People have to be trained to use it effectively while minimising disruption to traffic. This requires training and experience.

Between 1991 and 2004 I drove 55K miles a year in the UK and only experienced significant snow about four times and only once was it sufficient to stop me travelling. A lot of this motoring was up to Scotland and, even there, I only experienced snow once.

Unless we send staff to countries who experience a lot of snow, how can we expect them to cope efficiently when we do get snow?

[englishal]

it's not rocket science....

[Deeday]

I suggest you keep your opinions and b*tching to yourselves. Airfield Ops staff are working their nuts off at the moment. How about a well done for what they have done????

I think the criticism here is about the lack of adequate investment into winter operations by the airport operators, rather than the staff slacking off (which I don't think is the case).

[Pilot DAR]

QUOTE]For all of those who are up in their ivory towers, I suggest you climb down, pick up a shovel and help clear the runways and taxiways. Unless you are informed and well practiced at Runway/Taxiway/Stand clearance, I suggest you keep your opinions and b*tching to yourselves.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've been keeping my comments to myself on this one so far. After all I suspect that comments from Canadians regarding snow are unwelcomed in the UK (particularly now).

In this case, my ivory tower is John Deere green, with a snow blower in front. As I have for the last 21 years, when there is too much snow on my runway to get airborne (and in my C 150, experience has shown that to be about 4 inches, depending upon type) I get out and clear it.

Its all a matter of how badly you want to go flying! In truth, buying the John Deere (my second snow clearing machine, as the other tractor is a bit light for some work) cost more than my plane did, and it gets more hours put on it too! It is very likely that my most common desitination airport (CYQA) gets more passes by the snow clearing equipment on any given winter day, than the total number of aircraft movements for that day. Its just the way it is....

All the passengers sleeping on floors at LGW and LHR would probably chip in $50 toward snow clearing costs, if such an exercise were to be organized - its all a matter of how badly you want to go flying....

[BackPacker]

In other Euro countries, they just get on with it.

Don't count on it. I live close enough to Schiphol to get all frequencies on my scanner, including the snowdesk and such.

Schiphol is struggling with the snow just as badly as Heathrow, CDG or Frankfurt. And of course, once Schiphol is cleared, the destination airport is closed and vice versa. Leading to a cumulative effect.

I was flipping channels and saw a BAA spokesman on the BBC giving a very reasoned statement. Snow equipment acquisition, maintenance, training and such costs an arm and a leg and cannot be acquired overnight. It's an investment and that money cannot be invested elsewhere. Of course, if you live in a climate that delivers multiple feet of snow every year, the investment is a no-brainer so I'm not surprised that Canada, Scandinavia and similar places are better prepared than mid-Europe where, let's face it, this amount of snow is a very rare event - at least up to last year.

But I now see climatologists abandoning their "global warming" idea in favour of a little Ice age, caused, it seems, by the lack of sunspots in the last few years. If that is indeed the case then a lot of airports are going to have to re-do their investment plans for the next few years.

[A and C]

Why should we expect any more in the way of snow clearing at LHR & LGW after all it's not the sort of thing that the management of a shopping centre has to deal with. The kit to clear the snow costs a lot of money and usualy contributes nothing to profit.

Ho Ho Ho ! this year the lack of snow clearance has stopped the flow of those seeking a retail oppertunity so the shopping centre management may will have to buy that runway snow clearing equipment just to get the customers (sorry passengers) flowing through the door!

[Johnm]

PilotDAR should be aware that there are many different kinds of snow dry powder is easy to deal with you just get a snow blower and shift it.

In the UK and other nearby parts of Europe we get wet sticky snow that has to be shovelled, moreover we get partial thaws followed by refreeze that leave wet sticky snow sitting on a layer of solid ice. That is extremely difficult to deal with and is why most major European hubs like Heathrow, Schipol, Brussels and Frankfurt are having a tough time just now.

In the past it has happened pretty rarely and been generally not that widespread:
1942 1947 1963 and 1981 are the last major occurrences before the last couple of years.

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah, Pilot DAR also has to clear the wet sticky snow too, but thankfully not too often. Blowing that stuff does not work well, but plowing with a really powerful plow generally works well. I doubt that there is much to be known about how to deal with snow, that is known here and not all over Europe. It is simply the will to do it, and buy the equipment.

Global warming, and bizaare weather are now a reality. It will be up to our collective societies to figure out how we want to deal with it. In a world where aircraft operations are less tolerant of poor runway conditions than before, either we park the planes, make them (and the pilots) more contaminated runway tolerant, or deal with the snow with increased preparedness and budgets

[rateone]

These forums really do make me laugh! For all of those who are up in their ivory towers, I suggest you climb down, pick up a shovel and help clear the runways and taxiways. Unless you are informed and well practiced at Runway/Taxiway/Stand clearance, I suggest you keep your opinions and b*tching to yourselves. Airfield Ops staff are working their nuts off at the moment. How about a well done for what they have done????


I'm with Destinationsky on this one. I don't often post on these forums as I don't hold with most of the discussion but this one really got my goat.

We may not be able to clear snow but we certainly get the gold medal for sitting on our collective fat arse and bitching. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and the problem with today's media giving out "information" is that all of a sudden everyone is an expert. The simple fact is that our lazy way of life has led us to expect everything to be available to us "cheap and now" and when it isn't we see behaviour that I woudn't stand for in a toddler. There is a general collective throwing of toys out of collective prams and a search for some poor sod to blame.

Yes I feel sorry for the thousands of people stranded but grow-up people - Sh1t happens.

As a consequence of our desire to have everything now and free companies pare investment to the bone and on the advice of highly paid management consultants, reduce inventories (since inventories are cash) to a "Just in Time" process. This process means that supermarkets only have about 3 days of supply, filling stations about a week under normal circumstances. and same applies probably to airport terminals for everything from bottled water to bog roll. So when something out of the ordinary happens, the wheels come off our cosy way of life in a big way. Trucks can't deliver because roads can't be gritted because of the weight of traffic on our over crowded infrastructure making "necessary journeys", trains can't run because staff are not available, points freeze; folks can't fly because crews and a/c are in the wrong place, runways take time to clear, kit breaks down because it's not used regularly, etc.

So, spare a thought for those folks who are really trying to do the best they can on what will always in this world be limited resources. The poor sods can't win. If the councils invest in gritters and the weather doesn't arrive The Times will print an "expose" about how "your money" is being squandered on useless snow clearing equipment when everyone knows our climate is getting warmer. If they don't and we see the sort of conditions we have witnessed recently then they still get hammered.

Oh, and one last thing, this isn't just an English thing. This is happening all over Europe at the moment and heavy storms in the US Mid-West last month caused widespread disruption.

Rant Over - for now

[Rabbs]

Helsinki airport had 188cm (6ft) of snow last winter but the last time it was forced to close because of the weather was in 2003

BBC News - How Helsinki airport deals with snow and ice (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12042213)

At Heathrow we have 2 runways, while one is closed due to the 1.8cm snow, the other is also closed. The last time it stayed open for longer than 30 mins after a small flurry of snow was 2003 ;)

[IO540]

As a consequence of our desire to have everything now and free companies pare investment to the bone and on the advice of highly paid management consultants, reduce inventories (since inventories are cash) to a "Just in Time" process.

Sure - airports are managed very tightly, as are all big businesses these days. However what we are probably seeing is the consequences of a formal decision to not bother with severe weather because it happens only X days per year. The ethics of this are questionable, in a business which is churning over billions per year in landing fees, duty free business, etc.

A while ago I read about some airline not bothering to equip to Cat3C because their accountants worked out that they will lose on average just 3 days per year (due to fog) and that was OK.

I have lived in the UK since 1969 and have seen this much snow (in Sussex) loads of times.

BTW "JIT" doesn't really exist; it is a fancy name for a big company screwing its (smaller) suppliers into keeping stock on the shelf for free, and delivering it is bits when specified. So the customer gets stuff "JIT" while the small supplier is working its bollox off behind the scenes to make it look good - because all but the most trivial production from components or raw materials cannot be done JIT because even with the best management in your company some supplier further up the food chain will drop you in the poo much too often :)

[Doodlebug]

I am currently out operating and it is simply not true that 'This is happening all over Europe at the moment'. The fact that airports in the U.K. cannot deal with the snow is not acceptable. Others countries can, and do, year after year, season after season. The fact that we witnessed the same shambles last winter makes this season's debacle even more deplorable.

[mary meagher]

Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, it's all going to melt anyway.

The situation in Helsinki doesn't exactly coincide with our maritime climate, no wonder they have to keep shoveling the stuff.

Seems the real problem was not communicating with the traveling public.
The forecasts up to now have been spot on. And timely.

[rug-rats]

"In Kiev they have this antique jet strapped onto the back of a lorry. It's angled side- and downwards"

They had the same thing at Santa-pod to dry the track looked like an old Frank Whittle engine, sounded good and did the job too.

[AdamFrisch]

So I drove up to Sweden over the last 24 hrs and have a first hand report (as I couldn't fly).

Obviously snow everywhere, mayhem and chaos in England. Because I live close to Folkestone meant I could get the on the back roads to the Eurotunnel car train and avoid the worst of it. None of the roads we're salted or plowed. Eurotunnel delays, but not too bad.

Come to the French side where there's been exactly the same snow storm. Roads clear, salting vehicles everywhere. Traffic flowing. Not a speck of snow on any of the motorways. This continued uninterrupted through Belgium, Holland, Germany, Denmark and Sweden. I could see all the approaches into Hamburg and Kastrup on my way, and they worked fine.

So I stand by my observation from this year and last year: it's a British thing. And BAA - didn't you buy plows after last years debacle at Heathrow? Or did they think that snow in the UK was a freak accident? How much money does it cost to have all the airports in the UK closed? And weeks of backed up traffic? The badwill and revenue lost from people who will never connect through London during the winter again?

Surely a couple of snow plows must be cheaper than that...

[mary meagher]

Exactly who owns BAA (British Airports Authority) ??? Could it be that there is a sinister plot afoot?

And as far as the highways are concerned, they seem to be moving okay; its my driveway I'm worried about!

[mur007]

I suppose in a typical British attitude, once a snow flake falls, all the schools shut and people *can't* get to work.

In weather like this, schools close for a number of reasons - there are laws which mean the temperature has to be above a certain point indoors. The toilets have to be working (frozen pipes are a real issue particularly in older buildings) and there needs to be separate toilets for boys and girls; any of those factors are enough to close a school. And most significantly it is as much about getting kids back home after school as it is getting them there in the morning. In the school where I work the pupils have special needs and are bussed in by the local authority. A couple of weeks ago the decision was taken to keep the place open despite the forecast for heavy snow from mid-morning onwards. By hometime not a single school bus was to be seen and the last pupils were collected at 8pm that night. They didn't get home until nearly 2am because the roads and traffic was so bad. It really makes me angry when individuals who do not know what they are talking about blindly criticise schools without making any effort to familiarise themselves with facts first. If a school takes the difficult decision to close for the day there *will* be very good reasons for doing so.

[172driver]

So I stand by my observation from this year and last year: it's a British thing

Couldn't agree more with you Adam - when it comes to anything to do with infrastructure this country is a sad joke.

[mm_flynn]

Piecing through the various public statements from BAA and the airlines, Heathrow seems to have suffered a series of issues

Friday PM, the process (or possibly the infrastructure) didn't seem to allow them to de-ice aircraft and get them away reliably. Arriving aircraft were on the tarmac for multiple hours waiting for stands to become available. (There was a small fall of ice pellets and snow on Friday PM)
It appears that each ground handling company has their own de-ice kit and they de-ice their customers at the stands, running a high risk at an airport like Heathrow that the push-back and taxi time will exceed the hold over time.
Saturday morning, therefore, Heathrow seemed to have an excessive number of aircraft on the ground when the snow hit
BAA have indicated their core problem was an inability to clear the stands rather than the runways
The stand clearance issues seemed to be a lack of plan as to where to move the snow (BAA quote 'we needed to pick up and move 30 tonnes of snow for each stand, you can't just plow it we don't have space for that'). It might have been agrevated by the larger than normal number of aircraft on the ground
The focus of resources on stands vs. clearing the broader surfaces resulted in a significant delay so the snow went through several thaw freeze cycles and by the time BAA got to clearing the snow from the second runway it was a significantly more challenging job.


It is difficult as an outsider, to tell if Heathrow simply has inadequate levels of equipment to de-ice the departure schedule and to clear a measurable accumulation of snow, they lack sensible processes and plans to achieve the objective, or they are hobbled by H&S/Yellow Jackets

Most people except that disruption during and shortly after a snow fall is normal. However, the communication and recovery seem to be uniquely bad at Heathrow this time.

In any event, BAA do seem this morning to have acknowledged that only being able to run 1/3 of your scheduled operation three days after a 5 inch snowfall is not a good performance!

[FullWings]

One of the real issues is that runways are shut in the UK because they have a dusting of snow on them. Now, on a short runway and/or with significant crosswinds, contamination becomes a problem.

At LHR we weren't suffering from either of those two things... Most of the jets going in there are certified to land on runways with lying snow, ice, slush, you name it. Extensive manufacturer trials have been carried out, guidelines established and performance figures published. 09L/27R (3900m) and 09R/27L (3600m) are both amply big enough to allow landings even in icy/slippery conditions - virtually no braking action actually required. Takeoffs are a bit more closely controlled but figures are available up to 13mm of slush on what I fly.

Everywhere else I operate to in the world that suffers from wintry episodes allows taxiing, taking off and landing on contaminated surfaces. Grit rolled into snow can actually be quite grippy, even just compacted snow is OK for moving around on, if you're careful. You don't need bare black tarmac (although it's nice) as long as you're aware of what you're attempting and have made the appropriate preparations/calculations.

One flake of snow falls onto a landing runway and they're out with the checking vehicles... Unless the *whole* runway turned to sheet ice there isn't an issue (and even then, you *could* land on 3-4,000m anyway).

I've spent a lot of time practising in contaminated conditions in the sim, just have rarely used those skills in the UK... :ugh:

[2high2fastagain]

I feel sorry for the poor chaps at BAA. Those (rather sad) rolling news people keep on bombarding us with daily horror stories of the inevitable consequences of global warming so it's hardly surprising that snow ploughs weren't at the top of the BAA shopping list. They probably went for the fleet of zebra land
rovers so that they could chase the Wildebeast back into the parched, open savannahs of Royal Berkshire next year.

[destinationsky]

I would just like to say that BAA own a further 5 airports... How about we consider how the other airports within the group are coping??

I work at another one of the BAA airports and we are doing just fine!

Moral of the story is; Don't tar us all with the same brush!

[Miroku]

Exactly who owns BAA (British Airports Authority) ???


BAA is owned by a Spanish company, Ferrovial, which employs 107,000 people with assets of euros 48Bn.

The Chief Exec of BAA was paid £1.16 million last year and the company spent around £500,000 on snow moving equipment. Shows the priorities methinks.

[destinationsky]

"and the company spent around £500,000 on snow moving equipment. Shows the priorities methinks."

I would be interested to find out where these figures came from? As a group, BAA have spent alot more on snow equipment than £500,000. This figure does not take into account the de-icing and anti-icing media.

I refer to my last post.... BAA is alot more than just LHR!!!!

Heathrow
Southampton
Stansted
Aberdeen
Glasgow
Edinburgh

[Miroku]

"and the company spent around £500,000 on snow moving equipment. Shows the priorities methinks."

I would be interested to find out where these figures came from?


Today's Daily Telegraph, page one.

[connoisseur]

I would be interested to find out where these figures came from? As a group, BAA have spent a lot more on snow equipment than £500,000. This figure does not take into account the de-icing and anti-icing media.

BAA spend on Heathrow snow equipment is set out in a BAA PR puff from November available on their Heathrow website here:
BAA Heathrow: Heathrow's army of snow ploughs stretch their wings as snow bites (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/page/Heathrow%5EGeneral%5EOur%20business%20and%20community%5EMedi a%20centre%5EPress%20releases%5EResults/7d31c2264879c210VgnVCM20000039821c0a____/a22889d8759a0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/)

I refer to my last post.... BAA is alot more than just LHR!!!!Yes, BAA (aka Ferrovial) own more shopping centres than airports, and even the airports they do own are looking more and more like shopping centres ;)

[englishal]

This is happening all over Europe at the moment and heavy storms in the US Mid-West last month
Ah but there is a difference being hit by an all out blizzard, and a relatively light dusting of snow. Perhaps the airlines should get a rebate from BAA, seeing as part of their ticket cost is 'fees' which no doubt go to BAA....I bet a weeks worth of fees for BAA at LHR would pay for a fleet of snow ploughs.

[gasax]

I would just like to say that BAA own a further 5 airports... How about we consider how the other airports within the group are coping??

I work at another one of the BAA airports and we are doing just fine!


So the Gatwick total closure has already been airbrushed from the BAA corporate memory? Aberdeen has been closed - never going to make the mational news but having been held on two occasions when the airport management promised the runway would be open in 30 minutes - for that time to extend beyond 2 hours and hence a diversion - I would n't boast about the most northern of the shopping centres which happen to have a long piece of tarmac.

Edinburgh has ben pretty similar. So are BAA boasting about Southampton?

And the clown that 'runs' the company thought he would still be eligible for a bonus????????

[Genghis the Engineer]

Stansted on the other hand seems to have had the same weather but virtually no problems.

What are they doing right that everybody else should be copying?

G

[mary meagher]

If you want to read something really really funny click on to the BAA PR puff issued in November and mentioned in Connoisseur's post at 17:19 this evening.

Heads should roll. How many snowblowers can we buy with the manager's bonus?

How on earth can you get rid of 8 inches of snow on the runways by spraying it with a deicing solution?

[172driver]

Stansted on the other hand seems to have had the same weather but virtually no problems.

What are they doing right that everybody else should be copying?

Simple, really - they've got MOL breathing (fire) down their neck. Works a treat....

[Pace]

The main problem is not the runway contamination with snow but the taxiways and aircraft Docking points.

Remember that this time of year many arrivals are in official night into complex taxi airports and not only does the surface have to be taxiable on but all the correct markings, lights and marker boards have to be visible.
The Airport runway is just one tiny aspect!!!

Unless of course you have a follow me vehicle to guide every arrival departure?
Add low visibility taxi and :ugh:

Pace

[Zulu Alpha]

But I now see climatologists abandoning their "global warming" idea in favour of a little Ice age,

Yes and they now all use the term climate change. Then they are always correct.

Read Solar by Ian McEwan for a satirical look at the whole global warming/climate change bandwagon.

[IO540]

Must not take the micky out of climate change.

An awful lot of academic careers and postgrad degrees have been built on that concept ;)

You can't really expect these highly educated people to suddenly do something useful like picking up shovels and start shovelling snow out of the gates at LGW, can you?

[M609]

I caught glimse of the snow clearence efforts at LHR on Sky News last night. (it was snowing in the video, som presumeably from last weekend) Quite entertaining. The runway sweepers where tiny!!! And not that many of them eighter by the looks of things.

Over here we have had -SN at ENGM/Gardermoen all day. It´s cold, so the friction was very good after sweeping.

Oh, and btw...... I counted 17 vehicles in the snow clearence convoy on my A-SMGCS display. :ok:

[englishal]

Must not take the micky out of climate change.

An awful lot of academic careers and postgrad degrees have been built on that concept

You can't really expect these highly educated people to suddenly do something useful like picking up shovels and start shovelling snow out of the gates at LGW, can you?
Yes that is true. So educated that they signed a petition at the Climate summit in Cancun (nice at this time of the year I hear...) to ban dihydrogen monoxide which is one of the key ingredients in acid rain, kills thousands of people each year. It is known as the best solvent on earth, and it has been proven to eat through rock and corrode metal.

Except it is also water.....

You'd have thought a climate change scientist would look at the facts first...;)

UN climate kooks want to cripple US economy and ban H2O | CFACT.TV (http://www.cfact.tv/2010/12/08/un-climate-kooks-want-to-cripple-us-economy-and-ban-h2o/)

[Neptunus Rex]

Don't forget that in the hallowed cloisters of Academe, to gain a Degree, let alone a Ph D, your thesis has to be original.

Does not that help explain the huge numbers climbing onto the Global Warming bandwagon, as well as the proven lying tactics to push their theories?

[IO540]

your thesis has to be original.

Unless you are an overseas student paying the full fees, in which case your supervisor will more or less write it for you.