Sporting shooters - how much ammo can we carry?

[Sven Sixtoo]

Can anyone advise me what the rules say about carrying sporting ammunition on pax flts?

I know the usual limit is 5kg per passenger, but is there a max amount on one aircraft - eg what happens if the GB rifle team of 20 turn up all carrying their 5 kg?

Also can passengers carry nitro powder in bulk (for the purpose of assembling their own ammo at their destination) - if so how much? If not is there any way this can be done by air cargo?

I have tried the IATA and ICAO sites but I can't find a link to a detailed copy of the DAC regulations. Help please.

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"For evil to triumph, it is only necessary for good men to do nothing."
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[HugMonster]

Carriage of ammunition will, largely, depend oon your company's specific permission from the CAA, which will depend mostly on aircraft type.

In most cases, the ammunition allowance per passenger does not vary. However, each person's allowance may not be combined in one box. In other words, you should have 20 bozes, each of up to 5kg. The rules for packaging etc. are in the ICAO Technical Instructions for the Safe Transportation of Dangerous Goods by Air, and reflected in the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations.

It is quite possible that your company's regulations will not permit both the firearm and ammunition to travel on the same flight.

As for carrying powder, firing caps etc. for reloading, this would not be covered, as far as I am aware, by the rules covering ammunition, and would have to be carried as cargo on a specific Dangerous Goods certificate.

[Old and Bold]

On the same subject…

Is it legal for a passenger to charter an aircraft to carry himself and his shotgun with ammunition in the cabin (HS125 no hold) and travel around Europe

. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif . http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif . http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif . http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

[Bear Cub]

Surely the Worlds greatest oxymoron - "sporting ammunition".



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Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

[bodger]

Bear cub,I thought that was "Military Intelligencce!" :)

[HugMonster]

Old & Bold - no.

Almost all Carriage of Weapons Regs say that you may not carry the firearm on the same flight as the ammunition, if there is access to the baggage compartment in flight. Furthermore, the gun should be diassembled and in a lockable case, to which the Captain has the key.

Also, states over which you fly (or might fly) will also have to give their approval, and most won't for any flight like that.

Apart from anything else, would you want to know that somebody behind you has access to a firearms and ammunition? I certainly wouldn't!

[This message has been edited by HugMonster (edited 26 January 2001).]

[Sven Sixtoo]

Bodger:

OK I used to be stupid, I admit it.

Bear Cub:

Absolutely agree mate. bears are great. What I do is punch holes in paper at remote distances. Is that OK??

I have run into the rules on guns in small aeroplanes - like not allowed on the F50s England to Jersey because the "hold" is accesible in flight. What we are specifically interested in is taking the GB team to South Africa. In the past we have carried the guns only - no problem as they are essentially inert devices once packed as hold baggage. However,competition standards are now such that if you don't match the ammo to the gun you are history. So, either we do the matching in the UK and transport fully assembled ammo, in which case we need a lot more than 5 kg each ( about 22 kg at a guess)
or we take the components and assemble the ammo when we get there - in which case how do we get the propellant and percussion caps out? or if we can't ,which bits and how much do we need to buy in country, which is of course 1-% we can carry>

Ideas please!!

PS I do speak english/aviation - UK ATPL(H) but people generally don't want to move sporting guns to/from rigs etc.

Sven


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"For evil to triumph, it is only necessary for good men to do nothing."
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[Pilot Pete]

Did I read somewhere that the Captain has to be handed the firing pin or similar part to carry personally?, thus rendering the gun in-operable.

[Willy Jazz the cans 2]

Sven Sixtoo--I'm going out there for the champs at Bloemfontein in April--when are you going? We're the .22 lot :)

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I'm on my way!

[This message has been edited by Willy Jazz the cans 2 (edited 31 January 2001).]

[HugMonster]

Easy, Sven - ship the ammo out beforehand as freight. Take the firearms with the team as baggage.

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

[ExMPA]

Sven,
Much misleading information above. See the NSRA Rifleman No 739, Autumn 1999. Letters page, "Airlines"

The information in the letter is accurate. Any problems acquiring a copy then e-mail me.

BTW is Chris Hockley or Chris Fitzpatrick involved in the Blomfontein trip?

Rgds
ExMPA

[Sven Sixtoo]

ExMPA

Thanks for the steer.

"GB Team" was perhaps a misnomer - I was asked for info by one of a bunch of GB shooters planning same way same day, but when they get there there may be enough for a team of sorts. I think CJ is intending to go. Don't know about CF.

Sven



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"For evil to triumph, it is only necessary for good men to do nothing."
Report it!

[HugMonster]

So ExMPA, you maintain that the IATA Regulations are misleading, that airlines' regulations are misleading, that the Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Air Regulations are misleading, and that a letter (which you don't quote) is the gospel on the matter? If you're going to criticise other posters and, in as many words, say they don't know what they're talking about, I suggest you have the ba11s to do so outright.

[Bellerophon]

Sven Sixtoo

Judging by your name, you shoot full bore rifle, and so one of the constituent parts of your ammunition would be a primer. I’m not certain about recent regulations (as I stopped keeping up to date when HMG disarmed me, post Dunblane) but when I used to reload my own handgun cartridges, the primers were the problem when considering taking the consituent parts of ammunition by air.

Boxes of primers were not allowed to be carried on aircraft because of; another lovely piece of oxymoron; the likelihood of a sympathetic detonation when carried en masse! I strongly suspect that this is still the case.

[ExMPA]

Hugmonster,

Don't interrupt when the grownups are talking. There's a good chap.

ExMPA

[Bear Cub]

Sven...punch as many holes in paper as you wish...with my thanks (also Mummy Bear and Daddy Bear).

Remember - the best things in life are furry!

(To err is human - to forgive is canine).


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Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

[HugMonster]

ExMPA, I suggest you stop being a to$$er. If something said above is wrong, please point it out, and give the correct information. That way we can all benefit.

You may have noticed that one of the things people come to this BBS for is information. If you're merely going to say that information others have provided is wrong, then nobody benefits except your ego.

If you know better than those experienced pilots who are prepared to allow others to benefit from their experience, then share. Otherwise go away and play with yourself.

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

[ExMPA]

Hugmonster,

Read the whole thread very carefully.

BTW The juvenile abuse you employ is hardly becoming of a "professional pilot".

ExMPA


[This message has been edited by ExMPA (edited 02 February 2001).]

[HugMonster]

OK - I've done that. Apart from the comment about the bolt/firing pin/whatever needing to be in the Captain's possession, I can't see much that was misleading.

Regulations on carriage of firearms varies considerably from one company to another, mainly because of differing aircraft types.

Carriage of ammunition is covered by the IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations, propellant and firing caps similarly.

Now, please can you tell us what is your understanding of the rules?

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

[HugMonster]

ExMPA - you still there?

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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip

[vipero]

Well it's simple:
to carry ammo just check the Dangerous Good Regulation manual from IATA, and your FOM (you might not be allowed to carry ammo and weapons).
Anyway general rule is: both ammo and weapons as registered bags, ammo in special bags (sport ammo should be in class "S" for safe). Then ground staff must fill the "NOTOC" (Notice to Captain) and a Dangerous Good Manifest...
Ciao
Paolo

[HugMonster]

Vipero, basically I agree with you. He might be allowed to carry both - but probably unlikely. Whichever, the rules are in the IATA DGR's.

ExMPA, however, seems to think that the "Rifleman" magazine is the last word on the subject, is content to rubbish other posters, yet will not put his money where his mouth is.