First Sandown, now Bembridge!

[neilgeddes]

Doubts over airport future (http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/doubts-over-airport-future-36367.aspx)

Does anyone know anything about the Taylor family? :uhoh:

[chris-h]

Would be a shame to see Bembridge go, :(

[Sir George Cayley]

Havant Britten Norman found a new home?

Will this and the previous departure by Cirrus UK be another nail?

Sir George Cayley

[IO540]

BN might well move to Lee on Solent, if they can sort out a secure long term tenancy; I guess this means owning the place (or a long lease) with planning permission for everything they might want to do.

I have done business with some firms on the IOW and it is evident they have great trouble finding what one might call skilled labour on the island. I gather that over the years almost anybody who could read and write had emigrated to the mainland.

It is also possible that Bembridge will not survive unless they provide some half decent facilities, to support the traditional burger run business which is the bulk of their traffic now. They need a decent cafe/restaurant. But that's easy to arrange. The island is a very attractive place to fly to.

[Fuji Abound]

It is also possible that Bembridge will not survive unless they provide some half decent facilities, to support the traditional burger run business which is the bulk of their traffic now. They need a decent cafe/restaurant. But that's easy to arrange. The island is a very attractive place to fly to.


Actually the cafe is very good now - well as good as pretty much any GA airport in the UK. The veranda is also well done; it is very pleasant indeed sitting out in the sun with a cream tea. (perhaps a little less pleasant at thsi precise moment ;))

I shall be incredibly disappointed to see Bembridge close were that to happen (although I think and hope it is unlikely). It is one of those places that justify going back and for me is as close as the UK version of L2K.

[IO540]

I find it hard to see how Bembridge is so dependent on B-N business. B-N hardly use the runway (as a % of total traffic). And the £250k which B-N claim to be spending on it is hard to see where it goes. It must be on salaries; there is a "security" man there so that's £50k-100k straight away (total costs to the company).

[Genghis the Engineer]

Not so much Bemridge being dependent upon B-N's business I think, but the requirement for a licence.

To the best of my knowledge, there's no AOC holder there apart from B-N's flight test organisation, and that's been relocating to Lee on Solent for some time.

G

[POBJOY]

If somone could make an arrangement wth BN re the actual facilities it could make a good base for someone even on an unlicensed basis.
Large companies have great difficulty in running "outposts" on an economical basis (mainly due to staff costs) and the provision of "Tower staff" and fire cover / fuellers soon gets expensive as it has to satisfy the "company" system and usual employment ongoing costs.
I do not see that keeping the runway in good order would be an onerous task but it would need an organisation that is making money from its own operations rather than relying on visiting aircraft.
The licence situation is certainly not a help with the "cost issue" but if no substantial public transport ops are happening to pay for it then just operate on a Non licenced field basis.
I would have thought that a combination of Bembridge/Sandown requirements would give a positive business opportunity for someone.
I have to confirm that the service and facilities there have been very good for a GA field and they always seemed to operate with a "customer satisfaction" hat on.

[Saab Dastard]

Actually the cafe is very good now

Agreed - I was there in the Autumn, and the cafe was a very pleasant place to linger over coffee and cake.

SD

[IO540]

Does a flight test firm need a licensed runway?

I imagine B-N are an EASA 145 outfit; not sure if that is relevant to the licensed runway requirement.

[wigglyamp]

A Part 145 organisation doesn't require a licensed airfield. It's only their own engineering facilities that have to be approved, not the field they're based on.

[barne_as]

It would be a real shame to see this airfield close. This is one of my favourite places to fly to, with good food, very reasonable landing fees and a really friendly welcome.
I will be supporting them as long as possible

[I Love Flying]

I flew there for the first time in October. It was indeed a lovely place to go to, we received a warm welcome, the cafe was great, the decked terrace was lovely to sit out on in the autumn sunshine and the place was heaving with visitors. We had to wait for quite a while to take off again, it had been such a busy afternoon.

I was definitely planning to return.

[wsmempson]

I just rang up and spoke to ATC at Bembridge and whilst they acknowledge that the long term plans are up in the air, as far as they know, it's still business as usual until they are told otherwise - i.e. the field is licensed, there will be ATC on the Bembridge frequency and the field is open to all.

Methinks there is a bit of brinkmanship going on.

[wsmempson]

This just appeared on the NATS notam search, but not on RocketRoute or OrbiFly, which is irritating in itself.

Q) EGTT/QFALC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5041N00107W005
B) FROM: 10/12/31 18:00C) TO: 11/03/31 09:00
E) AD CLOSED TO ALL TRAFFIC EXCEPT REGISTERED RESIDENT ACFT AND VECTIS
GLIDING CLUB

It does appear on OLIVIA, however.

[Fuji Abound]

It fills me with much sadness that the year should start with this news.

[englishal]

I missed that Notam and was out and about flying, so we decided to drop in for a cuppa. Only to be told by the very polite radio chap that Bembridge is Notamed closed.

A great shame as it was a good destination to pop into for a cuppa or jacket spud when out and about. I hope it re-opens because now there is nothing on the Isle Of Wight which is a good place to zip over to by air. The Cafe was good in my opinion (for airfield Cafe's) and only a tenner to land and no PPR required it was pretty handy.

It was also exceptionally quiet in the air this afternoon. Only saw a few others in the Solent vicinity...

[IO540]

It's a real shame.

I think GA is paying the price for being too tight to pay £15-£20 to land, and to enable somebody to run an airfield on a proper commercial basis (by that I mean to not lose so much money that they sell out to developers at the drop of a hat).

That is obviously a simplistic explanation and a more fuller one lies in the difficulty of getting Planning to establish a brand new GA airfield somewhere.

If new airfields could be established, with rateable values appropriate to them being airfields and not trading estates, we could allow most of the existing ones to shut down, hand them over to the property sharks who are always circling anyway, and start again with new facilities, with proper hangarage available, located away from population centres so they don't draw complaints, etc.

[robin]

Agree 100%

We as pilots need to move away from only flying to airfields that offer free landings. We have to accept that our airfields are businesses that need to at least make a profit or they won't be there for us.

I read in the latest AOPA mag about the windfarm at Caernafon where the airfield manager made it clear that without alternative income the airfield wouldn't make it through the winter.

As a New Year's Resolution, let's try to support our favourite GA-friendly airfields, not whinge about reasonable landing fees and ensure that both we and they make it through the next year.

[Fuji Abound]

Yes, but I am not sure Bembridge is about the landing fees being too low.

The other issue with GA is the law of diminshing returns. Landing fees may well be too low relative to other costs, but with the cost burdens already on GA there may be the danger of more people giving up all together or flying less - at some point the more you charge the less fees you collect in consequence gaining less than nothing.

[englishal]

For me it is not so much the landing fee as the hassle factor involved. If you need to give 24 hrs PPR by semaphore, wear pink underpants and stand on your head before they will accept you, I can't be bothered.

If on the other hand if I can be flying along, decide I need a pee and a cuppa and simply land with no agro (a la USA), park in a nice area and enjoy a tea in a nice cafe then I don't mind paying £20 for the pleasure. Would be nice if that included over night parking for a number of nights too, especially at places like Bembridge.

That is why Bembridge was so good, you could just drop in as and when if you were passing and wanted a break.

[robin]

Quite right.

There are a number of airfields I've stopped using because of the hassle factor or unreasonable landing or parking fees.

Some small regional airfields think they are international airports and charge accordingly - some grass strips do too!

Perhaps we should start a GA-friendly rating system and shame those at the bottom.

[LaurieGav]

BN and the landlord cant agree the terms of a new lease so the landlord has taken back the field is currently unlicensed no radio and no fuel.
Only resident aircraft can fly and the field is closed to BN.:(

Also the facilities at Bembridge are pretty good and the landing fees not high compared to say goodwood and Shoram. It has full rt, landing lights, papi a good café a pub with 5 Min's walk with a good menu. It normally has fuel and the staff are always helpfull and polite what more do you need?????

I must correct IO540 on just about everything they have said, the Island has a highly skilled work force and a lot of hi tech business are based here which are doing very well. He is just about wrong on everything he said apart from the Island is a great place to visit. BN uses the runway most days and they need a licensed operation for their MOD contracts. I am not sure that a move to Lee would improve the situation and would almost certainly mean the end of Bembridge as we know it.

[POBJOY]

Well said LG, Bembridge would be a loss to GA and it set standards others would find hard to follow. When i was involved with the running of a GA field down west i have to say that the vast majoity of users were "pleased" that the facility was there.Unfortunately running an airfield is more a labour of love rather that a path to riches but the average pilot has no idea what is involved therefore only see's the cost to him.
As with boating, flying is going to get more expensive as we go on so if your aircraft needs a runway and facilities be prepared to pay for it or see it go.
The ideal set up would see "a club" run the airfield as part of being there, but as they themselves are under strong financial pressure these days are rapidly going.
I suspect someone will see the sense of making Bembridge available again (even if unlicenced) so wish them luck for 2011.

[Fuji Abound]

It has full rt, landing lights, papi a good café a pub with 5 Min's walk with a good menu. It normally has fuel and the staff are always helpfull and polite what more do you need?????


On a few points of order:

1. I am not sure what you mean by full rt, I think it has A/G,

2. I have never noticed a PAPI in 20 odd years, but maybe they passed me bye,

3. Sadly the pub is not good, nor is the ever popular Crab and Lobster any more.

All that said, the staff are great, the cafe is very good as airport cafes go, the island is beautiful with many good resteraunts if you are willing to go a little further afield, and the airport just needs a dozen or so bikes L2K style.

Having been involved with some businesses on the Island I would also agree that there are a number of world classes companies based on the Island.

It is a great place and a great shame - lets hope they sort themselves out.

[Nibbler]

It is/was an A/G service but what is slightly odd is the slant LaurieGav puts on the situation at Bembridge which clearly differs from what others are saying.

Read this: Doubts over airport future (http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/doubts-over-airport-future-36367.aspx)

The airfield owner seems not to want to let B&N have their cake and eat it so B&N decide to use the strongest option open to them - withdraw.

If the Taylor family wanted to operate the airfield I am sure they could find people living on the Island who are more than willing and capable of doing it, with or without an ATZ.

Call their bluff and let B&N transport their aircraft by road.

ooh this makes me feel so militant

[IO540]

The problem is that B&N probably can move right out. Maybe not today but soon enough.

In general terms, one cannot p*ss around with big companies. Many politicians have discovered this to their cost. The company just moves to another location. They tend to not have great emotional attachments.

I have visited the B&N factory ~ 2 years ago (on a tour) and I think their biggest real activity was the Cirrus assembly, which involves shipping almost whole airframes to the IOW by road+boat, so there is little advantage to the present location. I would not mess with them if it was me.

I also know that an awful lot of people working on the IOM commute there on the ferry. For any given company moving to for example Lee on Solent, only a part of the workforce is going to be sorry.

[Nibbler]

IO540 - I agree companies can and do cut off their nose to spite their face and B&N are trying to make out this is how they are going to be playing it. However there are additional cost implications to the 'by road' threat and there are many more issues to deal with if they decide to relocate. In such economic times it would be a risky decision and at the very least could set the company back in their development.

I don't know the history of what has gone on between owner and operator, clearly this will have a baring on current issues and perhaps I am being too critical of B&N who might be at their wits end.

[Fuji Abound]

Some one told me once a deal is only good if it is good for both parties. It is a nice old fashion sentiment perhaps not often remembered these days.

I can imagine if this is about rent both parties have very different standpoints. The landlords doubtless feel the rent should be commensurate with a "large" commercial operator occupying the field and B&G doubtless feel that were they not there no one else would be interested in taking the site on other than at a very much reduced rent.

The unusual "opportunity" of cheap accomodation at Lee may have brought matters to a head in that B&G would seldom have had the opportunity in the past to move to another on airport site that was close too hand.

If that has combined with a rent review or lease renewal one could easily imagine how this situation has arisen.

Both parties need to find a way of there being something in it for each of them otherwise the landlord might find himself operating an airport in the not too distant future. Who knows if he turns his hand to it and is able to rent the on site premises he might make a good go of things.

Financial considerations aside all credit to B&G who have in my opinion done much for Bembridge in terms of making it one of the most pleasant airports to visit.

[MarkH2010]

It could be helpful, I understand, if those so inclined, could drop a line by email to
the BN Airfield Operations Manager Pete Dalby - [email protected] ([email protected]) - along the lines of : " I enjoyed the airport whilst run by BNG and would like it to continue as a licensed airfield with full facilities & run by a professional air traffic team etc " OK, before anyone points it out its air - ground, I know !

I am not sure exactly how this will be used and have given up trying to second guess the politics, but Pete D is a good guy and if it helps safeguard the airport for all I think it worthwhile. I have sent my letter.

[flybymike]

It would be helpful if Pete D would post with his own suggestions, motivation, reasoning, and (if pragmatically possible) some information about "the politics".

[Gasil]

I passed the PPL last year and my first solo trip out was Bembridge and the IOW.
I'm really disappointed about the rumoured closure and hope like many, that an amicable arrangement can be found. It was a flight with friends to IOW that finally pushed me into doing the PPL - it would be a great shame to loose it.

[neilgeddes]

Link provided by my local sister ?Blockade? row could cost jobs at airport (http://www.iwcp.co.uk/news/news/blockade-row-could-cost-jobs-at-airport-36629.aspx)

[DBTW]

I have just visited BN at Bembridge and have an insight of the problems they are facing.

Although money does form a part of the dispute with the land owner, the real problem seems to be about the control of activities on the airfield. In the interests of flight safety, what BN needs as an airfield manager is to be in control of all the airside activity. At the moment, there is also a gliding club and a model aircraft club who use the airfield without any reference to BN, and this creates dangerous conflict on a weekly basis. The land owner seems to be taking advice from his own representative who is also a member of the neighbouring gliding club. (Is that a conflict of interest?)

This same person used to work for Pilatus BN some time ago and the reason for his departure is not clear, but there seems to be some acrimony there. As I understand it, he has been responsible for the closure of the airfield twice before.

The main point I would make is that BN are extremely happy to continue managing the airfield even though it seems rather costly. If this cannot work, BN will be equally happy to simply have access to the airfield, access which is currently being blocked by the land owner.

Apparently, a BN customer was supposed to bring an Islander into Bembridge this week for modification, and the land owner wanted him to pay GBP1800 for the landing, and would not give any assurance that the aircraft would be able to depart again after modification! From Pete Dalby I understand that until a couple of weeks ago the standard commercial landing rate for an Islander at Bembridge was GBP50!!

As a contingency to sustain business, I hear BN are looking at options at Sandown and a few close UK airfields other than their existing facility at Lee On Solent.

In my view, without BN, or some similar organisation brought in to manage the airfield, it is unlikely that Bembridge will survive very long particularly as BN own the control tower, cafeteria and fire station.

IO540 and others, I am certain the Cirrus assembly at Bembridge ceased in 2009 as a result of the impact of the GFC on Cirrus sales. Sir George Cayley has hit the nail on the head if he is talking about a nail in the coffin for Bembridge Airfield.

[G-Atlast]

Despite a lot of talk to the contrary, Sandown is very much open! Yes it requires PPR, no there is no fuel but the cafe in the Specialist Flying School (opposite side of the field to the tower) make a nice cuppa! Sandown needs as much support as possible in order to help prevent its closure at the hands of the usual greedy developers. Until the ongoing disruption at Bembridge is (hopefully) resolved, Sandown is also the only remaining option for visiting traffic to the Island. As far as I am aware, the annual Spamfield Microlight fly-in in the summer will be going ahead as usual as well, unless somebody knows any different?

[Weekend Flyer]

Sandown PPR Number is 01983 402402

[neilgeddes]

I enjoyed a fabulous fly in to Sandown this morning, to be welcomed by friendy staff on the radio and in the cafe :) Just £10 to land then less than a fiver for hot breakfast and coffee. The grass runway was in a good state, dry, though you have to weave past the mole hills taxying to the R23 hold! When the sun shines their outdoor seating will be hard to beat for a quick rest and view of the field.

Bembridge Airport Limited should take note otherwise it will be their loss :=

[G-Atlast]

BN have now signed a 2 year lease on Sandown and are apparently planning to get it relicenced. They will also be running Lee on Solent from 1st April, not sure on exactly what basis. Still no fuel anywhere on the Island at present, although hopefully this will be changing fairly soon.

[sammypilot]

Sandown or Bembridge?

[G-Atlast]

The lease is for Sandown. Bembridge is currently open for residents only, with no fuel or radio.

[sammypilot]

Thanks for that G-ATLAST. BN must really have fallen out with the landowners at Bembridge to decide to move to Sandown. Undoubtedly all their skilled workforce is on the IOW but to make a new start at an aifield with an uncertain future has to be a commercial gamble.