Jetstar Asia Advanced Cadet Program

[cruisercruiser]

Hi dudes,

Jetstar asia has recently launched an "Advanced Cadet Programme (ACP)".

Pilot Cadet Program - Jetstar Airways (http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program.aspx)

Here are the requirements:

Male and female Singapore Citizens / Permanent Residents (PR)
For male applicants – You must have either completed, be exempt from, or not be liable for, full-time National Service (NS). (Those in the process of completing NS may also apply)
CAAS Class 1 Medical Certificate
Logged 700 hours aeronautical experience (aeroplane or helicopter)
Minimum 100 hours PIC aeroplanes

The 700 hours requirement essentially disqualified the majority of relatively inexperienced pilots except Flight Instructors or those from the military, given the near zero GA in singapore.

I have a CAAS CPL ME/IR and met all their requirements except the 700 hours. What is the rational behind this magic number?

Cruiser

[DMN]

Goal is to get somewhat experienced pielots without paying them first officer salary.

[Stallone]

looking at the ab initio programme, it's A$142,500

heck, how to pay off such an amount??

not forgetting one has to pay S$400 excl GST just to take the OAA tests in stage 2

[training wheels]

No GA in Singapore but there are lots of opportunities to build hours in neighbouring Indonesia. Lots of low timers from around the world are here to log hours but very few if any from Singapore? Wonder why? Is it a cultural thing or perhaps arrogance? 700 hours can be easily achieved within 12 months flying in Indonesia.

[Jin75]

@training wheels

Or perhaps not being exposed to the reality of aviation in other parts of the world. Until the last half a decade or so, flying in Singapore is almost solely synonymous with main lines, specifically SIA.

@cruisercruiser

I believe the 700 hours is a requirement only for non-CAAS licence (for CPL conversion). With your CAAS qualifications, you only need to meet their 100 hrs PIC requirement and probably would not even have to sit through their 5-months correspondence ATPL. Read OAA's FAQ and call them to enquire.

Good luck.

[Touch'n'oops]

Guys and Girls, I think those of you who are Singaporean are in a great position to take advantage of this opportunity. Here is a carrier offering a fast track to the RHS of a Jet. There are A LOT of people who would chew arms off for this chance. Here is an investment for the future and the best part is there is a very good job at the end.

Furthermore, with the arrival of the A330, you will get the vital wide body jet experience to make your CV sparkle.

Yes the training costs are high. But, you are paying about the same an european wannabe would splurge for just the fATPL, WITHOUT the type rating. Upon earning a full F/O wage, you will out do your european counterparts and that is even before you take into account of tax. In England I pay close to 36%. No matter what has been said, Singapore is not that expensive in comparison to Europe.

When I lived in Singapore, I loved it btw, I always mused how locals felt done over even when they had got a great deal. I promise you, after the SIA cadetship this a very good second.

Good Luck and go get it! :ok:

btw, I wish I had this chance and no I am not JetStar management... :hmm:

[antony.s]

Hi there, this is a nice program Jet Star offers.

During the Oxford assessments applicants have to do a lot of pilot aptitude tests, like you will see here:
OAA Skills Assessment (http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program/who-is-oxford/assessment.aspx)

It is recommend to use the skytest.com prep software for Middle East Carriers because it contains exactly these modules. Cheers

[thornycactus]

The 700 hours requirement essentially disqualified the majority of relatively inexperienced pilots except Flight Instructors or those from the military, given the near zero GA in singapore.

Yup! cruisercruiser is right! I share the same view as him! :ok:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6810/pprune03.jpg

[thornycactus]

Guys and Girls, I think those of you who are Singaporean are in a great position to take advantage of this opportunity. Here is a carrier offering a fast track to the RHS of a Jet.
Singaporeans definitely qualify, to be accepted or not is another issue. :}

HOWEVER, the programme fee for ACP cost between AUD42,000 (SGD54,500) to AUD76,000 (SGD98,600)! It is extremely hard to find applicants (especically Singaporeans) who can afford such a big money!

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3356/pprune02.jpg

No.1. Those Singaporean self sponsored pilots already spent a quarter million on licence. Forking out another sum for ACP?! Big Joke! :=
No.2. Those Singaporean self sponsored pilots are low timer, and might be only handful who meet the requirement of 700hours! Big Joke! :ooh:
No.3. Those Singaporean pilots who meet the requirements but forcing them to pay a bizzare amount for ACP? Big Joke! :yuk:

So, the moral of Jetstar Asia ACP is definitely a big joker plan for Singaporeans! Believe it or not, the boundary is way too tough for Singaporeans! Unlikely to recruit Singaporean pilots into ACP! We shall wait and see whether this stupid ACP plan going to work or not. :D Don't know who is smart Alex in Jetstar Asia who come out with ACP money making business plan!

There are A LOT of people who would chew arms off for this chance. Here is an investment for the future and the best part is there is a very good job at the end.
Really?

The Jetstar Asia ACP is likely to recruit filthy rich Tom-Dick-Harry from foreign countries producing oil (from Islamic countries lah). <- highlight to see

[Skybound79]

I think Jetstar Group should consider some means of helping prospective applicants finance the training costs -for eg. allowing applicants to pay off the training costs via their salary in affordable instalments. Otherwise it will be very difficult for prospective trainees financially, especially since Jetstar is targetting only Singaporeans and PRs. For the Advanced Cadet Program this is especially true, just think about it - the typical self-sponsored Singaporean low-time pilot would already have spent a fortune getting their licences, then either end up jobless if in Singapore (after being rejected by the local airlines for some reason or another) with a huge debt to pay off, or the more fortunate ones venture out and gain employment in neighbouring countries like Indonesia or Malaysia working for meagre salaries just so that they have a chance to build up their flying hours. Jetstar Group management people - if you are reading this post, please consider this issue and help us low-time aviators..:uhoh:

[thornycactus]

No GA in Singapore but there are lots of opportunities to build hours in neighbouring Indonesia.
Talk is always easy. Why don't you recommend and spell out the names of airlines and flying schools? :}

700 hours can be easily achieved within 12 months flying in Indonesia.
By the time a pilot finishing the 700 hours in Indonesia, Jetstar Asia already closed the ACP or better job opportunity in Indonesia.

Also, demanding Singaporeans to pay AUD42,000 (SGD54,500) to AUD76,000 (SGD98,600) for ACP?! Hah...what a money milking idea! :ouch:

[Stallone]

what i'm interested in is how are the ab initio cadets gonna pay off the almost S$200,000 fee after passing course and gaining employment at Jetstar

i believe a good chunk of the monthly salary is gonna go into financing the loan

how much do they pay a A320 F/O??

let's say each month he earns S$5000

paying S$2500 monthly for loan will take more than 6.5yrs to finish, not including the interest rate here yet


how many years/hours is required for them to promote you to a Captain?

[thrustpig]

Once upon a time, it was normal for airlines to recruit cadets through a process which separated the ones with the aptitude and skills best for the position / company concerned, rather than their abilities to procure cash. Times change, it is now very rare for airlines to have senior management / executive financial positions filled by people who care more about the long term sustainability of an operation, than they do about maximizing their next bonus. A fully self-funded cadet program with long term salary sacrifice is just another way of artificially lowering the ticket price and delaying the inevitable exodus of crew. Sure, a uni degree might cost a similar amount. However, does that degree lock you into single company on soup-kitchen wage? This industry has changed a lot, and is changing at its fastest rate ever. At the current rate of erosion of terms and conditions, go ahead, ask yourself where will it be by the time YOU can afford to move on?????????? Caveat Emptor.

[Stallone]

haha, do you know a Singaporean studying in a local university for a 4-year course will cost less than S$30,000?

S$200,000 is plain madness, it's like buying a government housing in Singapore

[thornycactus]

I agree with Skybound79!

I think Jetstar Group should consider some means of helping prospective applicants finance the training costs -for eg. allowing applicants to pay off the training costs via their salary in affordable instalments. Otherwise it will be very difficult for prospective trainees financially, especially since Jetstar is targetting only Singaporeans and PRs.
AirAsia and other airlines are able to absorb the training cost BUT why NOT Jetstar!

Jetstar Asia definitely has the money to expand but no money to train pilots?! Big JOKE! :}

For the Advanced Cadet Program this is especially true, just think about it - the typical self-sponsored Singaporean low-time pilot would already have spent a fortune getting their licences, then either end up jobless if in Singapore (after being rejected by the local airlines for some reason or another) with a huge debt to pay off, or the more fortunate ones venture out and gain employment in neighbouring countries like Indonesia or Malaysia working for meagre salaries just so that they have a chance to build up their flying hours.
Jetstar Group childishly thinks that all applicants are rich!

Jetstar Group thought that all Singaporeans are son, grandson, nephew of UOB Chairman Wee Cho Yaw (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/weechoyaw.jpg), Creative Chairman Sim Wong Hoo (http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5976/simwonghoo.jpg), BreadTalk Founder George Quek Meng Tong (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1776/georgequek.jpg), City Developments Chariman Kwek Leng Beng (http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3291/kweklengbeng.jpg), Singapore Tycoon Oei Hong Leong (http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9779/oeihongleong.jpg), NTUC Insurance King Tan Kin Lian (http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4184/tankinlian.jpg) or Sheng Siong Supermarket King Lim Hock Chee (http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6913/limhockchee.jpg) or etc.

Look at that! Jetstar Group are making applicants to pay between SGD54,500 to SGD98,600! WOW... :eek:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6022/pprune04.jpg

Jetstar Group management people - if you are reading this post, please consider this issue and help us low-time aviators..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif
I do not think they will not be reading this. Let's pray that this ACP monkey plan fail.

[thornycactus]

looking at the ab initio programme, it's A$142,500
heck, how to pay off such an amount?? not forgetting one has to pay S$400 excl GST just to take the OAA tests in stage 2

For the ab initio programme, Jetstar Group did not mention anything about nationality eligibility. Any nationality should be able to apply.

I assume, Jetstar Group will be receiving bombastic emails from Indians, Australians, Mainlander Chinese, Malaysians or Middle Easteners.

May be, Jetstar Group are going to recruit non-Singaporeans for ab initio programme. :rolleyes:
____________________________________________________________ _______

Whereas for ACP, it is clearly stated for Singaporeans/PR only. I do not think qualified Singaporean pilots can afford.


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/619/pprune05.jpg

[thornycactus]

Hi there, this is a nice program Jet Star offers.
Hah...nice program? We will wait and see how this ACP going to work! :D

Many airlines in this world are offering FREE training program! Yes, I repeat it is FREE!

In fact, airlines are giving it to their own national citizens for free but with bond in return.

Also, Jetstar Asia owns a fair number fleet of Airbus 320. They are going to expand and their t.v. advertisements are everyday! For this ACP, I only can see Jetstar Group is "blood" sucking. :ooh:

[rykin]

Sooo...... any ideas which bank will loan me $200k and allow me to start paying back after 18 months? ....

[rotatejunkie]

If im not wrong,
earlier this year, Jet* Oz offered a similar ACP to holders of CASA licence.

And fees repayment were arranged through salary deductions.

Howzit not possible this time even though its the same company offering the same program but for Singaporeans/PRs ?

Perhaps its a catch thats hidden until pass the final interview, then all will be revealed...

--------------------------------------
Loan Repayment after 18mths? NOT in singapore Im thinking...
The minute you disburse the initial amount, YOU START PAYING...

[training wheels]

Talk is always easy. Why don't you recommend and spell out the names of airlines and flying schools? :}


You don't have to be Einstein to know which ones they are. Those who've used their own initiative to find out more about the Indonesian aviation scene are well set for a flying career here and there are many currently flying and building hours. You come across as being so negative about many recruitment initiatives of airlines in the region. With that kind of attitude, it's no wonder why you're still forever searching.

[thornycactus]

With that kind of attitude, it's no wonder why you're still forever searching.
FYI, I am already in an airline. :)

[training wheels]

FYI, I am already in an airline. :)

..and please tell me which airline flies:

Current a/c Type (eg B737. Pilots only):
Pilatus PC 7, Cessna 402B, Fokker 28 Fellowship, MD 3, Eagle 150B

[thornycactus]

Sooo...... any ideas which bank will loan me $200k and allow me to start paying back after 18 months?
You need offering letter, sponsors. guarantors and etc.

Then, any bank will open all doors for you. :cool:

[Stallone]

For the ab initio programme, Jetstar Group did not mention anything about nationality eligibility. Any nationality should be able to apply.

I assume, Jetstar Group will be receiving bombastic emails from Indians, Australians, Mainlander Chinese, Malaysians or Middle Easteners.

May be, Jetstar Group are going to recruit non-Singaporeans for ab initio programme. :rolleyes:

only Singaporeans and PR may apply for both programmes

30 vacancies for ab initio starting in March, 40 for ACP starting in February

OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com/pages/training_courses/ab_initio/jetstar-asia.php)

[thornycactus]

only Singaporeans and PR may apply for both programmes

30 vacancies for ab initio starting in March, 40 for ACP starting in February
Wow...you knew the figures well!

Jetstar knew that there will be people signing for ab-initio. Hence, these are market spoilers who will be paying approx 200K SGD. I am doubtful ab initio vacancies will be filled.

As for the ACP, we'll wait and see. :D

[dan1165]

Kill the cadets :E

[Stallone]

Wow...you knew the figures well!

Jetstar knew that there will be people signing for ab-initio. Hence, these are market spoilers who will be paying approx 200K SGD. I am doubtful ab initio vacancies will be filled.

As for the ACP, we'll wait and see. :D

haha, the numbers and start dates were reported in the news article
OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com/pages/news/dec_16_2010.php)

i think the ACP vacancy will be tough to fill.. If they lower requirement to 200hrs, it might help, but then, it's still WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!

[thornycactus]

haha, the numbers and start dates were reported in the news article OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com/pages/news/dec_16_2010.php)
I see. Thank you for enlightening! :)

i think the ACP vacancy will be tough to fill.. If they lower requirement to 200hrs, it might help, but then, it's still WAY TOO EXPENSIVE!!
I agree with you! Skybound79 shared his same view too!

Four of us (Skybound79, Cruisercrusier, Stallone (you) and I), are extremely negative about ACP. ACP is definitely NOT going to work!

[cruisercruiser]

I have been trying to rationalize the Jetstar logic of providing the Advance Cadet Program. Like I mentioned before, the 700 hours aeronautical experience requirement cuts off most inexperienced Singaporean license holders.

Bearing in mind the ACP is only open to Singaporeans/PR, local pilots who have at least 700 hours AND would like to apply for the program will probably be:

1) People who have a license and have went overseas to clock hours because local operators didn’t take them.

2) Instructors who are currently with local/foreign flying clubs/schools who aren’t bonded

3) Military pilots who are nearing the end of their bonds and are looking for a career change.

4) Pilots with any of the above combination.

This leads me to believe that the program was designed to target the above-mentioned niche group of people. Having said that, these people, with the right hours and experience, would have the option to apply for local airlines (SIA/SIAC SilkAir) that are willing to put them through their own cadetship free of charge, and at the same time paying them a monthly allowance.

Given the high costs of the Jetstar ACP, and reasonably assuming that pilots are logical thinking people, this niche group would have gone for the “free of charge” cadetship first. Failure to get into the “free” program would then push them to join Jetstar and pay for their own conversion. My perspective leads me to think the ACP is shooting itself in the foot by limiting its available pool of eligible applicants. Who in the right mind would fork out $50,000 unless he has no other choice?

Of course, my argument might be flawed. Time will tell whether the program is successful.

Cruiser, back to mugging...

[thornycactus]

ACP is only open to Singaporeans/PR, local pilots who have at least 700 hours AND would like to apply for the program will probably be:

1) People who have a license and have went overseas to clock hours because local operators didn’t take them.
2) Instructors who are currently with local/foreign flying clubs/schools who aren’t bonded
3) Military pilots who are nearing the end of their bonds and are looking for a career change.
4) Pilots with any of the above combination.

This leads me to believe that the program was designed to target the above-mentioned niche group of people.

It make sense! You are right!

Given the high costs of the Jetstar ACP, and reasonably assuming that pilots are logical thinking people, this niche group would have gone for the “free of charge” cadetship first. Failure to get into the “free” program would then push them to join Jetstar and pay for their own conversion.
Precisely! This is Jetstar monkey trap!

ACP is shooting itself in the foot by limiting its available pool of eligible applicants. Who in the right mind would fork out $50,000 unless he has no other choice?
Jetstar expect Singaporean pilots are desperate to pay between SGD54,500 & SGD98,600 for the job! :=

[Stallone]

1) People who have a license and have went overseas to clock hours because local operators didn’t take them.

2) Instructors who are currently with local/foreign flying clubs/schools who aren’t bonded

3) Military pilots who are nearing the end of their bonds and are looking for a career change.

4) Pilots with any of the above combination.

1. very few singaporeans do that i think, i dun see them here, or they keep quiet.. but there are alot CPL holders with lack of sufficient hours

2. these are the highly possible targets

3. no way, they will join SIA instead, RSAF will help them get there


yes, SIA cadetship is free, and they pay monthly allowance during training, but it won't be easy to get in

whereas this Jetstar Asia's programme, is there allowance? imagine going income-less for 6months and 18months for the respective programmes. will it be easy to get in? maybe for ACP, 'cause not many can fulfill the requirement

[sgcloudchaser]

SIA cadetship is not free but slightly cheaper. You're bonded and monthly deduction from your salary goes into repaying partial of the training cost over the period of 7 years bond. Pay-wise anyone know the difference between a SQ FO and Jetstar FO?
Yes, Jetstar did not mention if the trainee will be given a monthly training allowance over the training period like SIA no matter how little it can be.

[thornycactus]

I believe the 700 hours is a requirement only for non-CAAS licence (for CPL conversion). With your CAAS qualifications, you only need to meet their 100 hrs PIC requirement and probably would not even have to sit through their 5-months correspondence ATPL.
Jin75 is right!

Under CAAS SASP-2 Chapter 4, it is applicable for non-CAAS licence (for CPL conversion) holder. 700 hours is a requirement for licensing conversion.

I have a CAAS CPL ME/IR and met all their requirements except the 700 hours. What is the rational behind this magic number?

I have been trying to rationalize the Jetstar logic of providing the Advance Cadet Program. Like I mentioned before, the 700 hours aeronautical experience requirement cuts off most inexperienced Singaporean license holders.
cruisercruiser, I am very sure Jetstar Group "stupidly" made a mistake in the ACP!

700 hours is for non-CAAS licence holder into conversion.

[thornycactus]

yes, SIA cadetship is free, and they pay monthly allowance during training, but it won't be easy to get in.
Yes, I agree with Stallone.

for ACP, 'cause not many can fulfill the requirement.
I think Jetstar Group will realise their mistake soon! The 700hours will only affect those non-CAAS licence Singaporean holders.

If you are holding a CAAS licence, Jetstar Group will consider immediately. Of course, if you can cough out SGD54,500 ~ SGD98,600, Jetstar will be smiling ear to ear.

SIA cadetship is not free but slightly cheaper.
Who says SIA cadetship is not free? It is *FREE* but serving a bond in return and with monthly allowance!

As for this Jetstar ab-initio and ACP, it is NOT free!

Jetstar did not mention if the trainee will be given a monthly training allowance over the training period like SIA no matter how little it can be.
After you have been accepted, they will definitely give you allowance and you do not have to worry.

If you are into Jetstar ab-initio -> be readily to pay SGD200K! Else it, for ACP -> please pay SGD54,500 ~ SGD98,600. :D

[rotatejunkie]

Boys,
I have a mate with 200+ hrs, and has the CPL-IR n frozen ATPLs from CASA Australia...
A few months ago, he got into Tiger with just doing a conversion which consisted of just the Airlaw paper ....

SO now what is actual practice for licence conversion?

Its seems 700hrs is not what he needed for conversion.
Even his Australian coursemates didnt need the 700 hr requirement.
Unless things have recently changed (like in the last few months)...

Will CAAS please clarify...
:D

[thornycactus]

I have a mate with 200+ hrs, and has the CPL-IR n frozen ATPLs from CASA Australia...
A few months ago, he got into Tiger with just doing a conversion which consisted of just the Airlaw paper ....

Its seems 700hrs is not what he needed for conversion.

Obviously, your friend has enrolled into a CAAS approved FTO!

Otherwise, without 700hrs, there is NO way to convert into a CAAS licence! I can guarantee that! CAAS is strict on aeronautical experience requirement.

Even his Australian coursemates didnt need the 700 hr requirement.

CAAS has a big loop hole for not protecting its Singapore citizens! :eek:

Look at that, any nationality of Tom-Dick-Harry can convert their licence freely with Singapore air-operators! CAAS is really a stupid goverment board! :D

[rotatejunkie]

well im not sure about whether his was a CAAS approved FTO.

So in any case, if he was from a CAAS approved FTO, and if any Singaporean/PRs attained the same licence as my mate has from the same FTO in Oz, does that mean these grads will NOT be liable for the 700hr minimum requirement? And be readily accepted by Jet* with 200+ hours?

If thats true then Woo Hoo!

Otherwise, its some undertable favouritism practices we are not aware of in Singapore.... But thats another issue altogether...

[wannabe15]

Ab-initio is open for Singaporean only if i read the FAQ correctly

[thornycactus]

There are only a few routes for licence conversion into CAAS one.

For foreign licence holder without the 700hrs minimum requirement, basically, s/he will have to sit for all navigation and technical papers and a checkride. :hmm:

Eventually, it will be a full CAAS licence issued. :)

So in any case, if he was from a CAAS approved FTO, and if any Singaporean/PRs attained the same licence as my mate has from the same FTO in Oz, does that mean these grads will NOT be liable for the 700hr minimum requirement? And be readily accepted by Jet* with 200+ hours?
So, to answer your question, yes, you are right! If that's the case, 700hrs requirement will not be applicable.

[thornycactus]

Ab-initio is open for Singaporean only if i read the FAQ correctly
Yes, you are right!

[sgcloudchaser]

thorny,

sia cadetship is not free definitely but surely cheaper, unless you count the repaying of training fee by deduction via your monthly salary during the 7 years bond as free of charge out of your pocket... you think sia so generous?

[hobbes234]

Boys,
I have a mate with 200+ hrs, and has the CPL-IR n frozen ATPLs from CASA Australia...
A few months ago, he got into Tiger with just doing a conversion which consisted of just the Airlaw paper ....

SO now what is actual practice for licence conversion?

Its seems 700hrs is not what he needed for conversion.
Even his Australian coursemates didnt need the 700 hr requirement. :rolleyes:


Unless things have recently changed (like in the last few months)...

Will CAAS please clarify...
:D



I believe your friend was one of the lucky ones who was able to convert before CAAS got screwed during the ICAO audit... :rolleyes:

[Stallone]

thing is, during the 7yrs in SIA bond, you won't feel the effect of paying back to SIA for the course's cost

but for this Jetstar Asia programme, the amount is there for you to see, and like i mentioned, with a F/O pay of $5000(for example), paying back $2500 per month for the loan will take you more than 6.5yrs

then let's consider the 6.5yrs as a form of "bond" with Jetstar. so you'll be effectively earning just $2500/month for close to 7yrs, without considering pay rise that is.


do F/Os in SIA earn $2500/month?

NO WAY

[cruisercruiser]

I have emailed Jetstar Asia to ask about the 700-hour entry requirement if you are holding a CAAS license that needs no conversion. The email sent to [email protected] bounced saying that there is no such address. I haven't got a reply from the same email sent to [email protected]. Does anyone know of a number to call?

There is no mention of any allowance in the website. It says "Accommodation provided in Australia and Hong Kong. Meals provided in Hong Kong". Which to me implies that only meal allowances will be provided in Hong Kong but not in australia. And how much?

Re:16th Jan 2011

OAA has got back saying those with CAAS license without 700 hours flight experience are eligible for the ACP program.

[Skybound79]

I emailed them at the same address too but haven't got any reply too.. Maybe the guys in charge are currently away on vacation or something. Might have to wait a little longer..:bored:

[Touch'n'oops]

May I suggest you guys go for it and then you can ask your questions at the interview.

You can always turn it down later if it doesn't suit you.

[justify89]

Dear All,

Is there any Jetstar Pilots around? Would like to know their lifestyle.
And also I have a PPL-R about 55hours. Would it help with the Ab Initio Cadet Pilot Program ?

Thanks.

[Redsteel]

Does anyone know when their next intake for Senior Cadets is? I have applied but would like to know the time frame

[rykin]

Do you mean "old" cadets ^^
or the ACP? If its the latter :
"The Advanced Cadet Program is a six month program that will be launched in February 2011. It is designed to assist non-commercial pilots transitioning to commercial flying. "
taken from OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com/pages/news/dec_16_2010.php)

[Redsteel]

haha thanks Rykin, i did mean the ACP. I have filled in the form already and and now just holding thumbs :ugh:

[Stallone]

you should nt fill any form when applying for ACP

They stated mailing them your CV.. Please go read the FAQ

[slayerdude]

Jetstar Asia= RSAF Flying Club

Ex RSAF boys won't have trouble with 700hrs nor the 200K with service ROD gratuity......... thats who the ACP is tailor made for!!!!!

[cancan7]

I'm asked to go for the OAA skills assessment next Tuesday... I applied for the Ab Initio program. Yes, I'm that desperate :{

Any idea how to prepare for this?

I've never made it past the first round interviews at SIA, so I'm totally clueless. Would appreciate any answers, thanks!

[Stallone]

http://www.jetstar.com/%7E/media/69129F4C7F80447C9BABB0918A4D9DB9.ashx?h=124&w=219&as=1
Day One

Computer-based Tests - testing your aptitude, technical knowledge and personality Day Two

Team Exercises - testing your verbal reasoning, problem solving and communication skills
Individual Interviews - examining your personality, aviation knowledge and commitment
Individual Debrief - comprehensive, objective and honest
OAA Skills Assessment (http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program/who-is-oxford/assessment.aspx)

[Jezza88]

does anyone know if the the ab initio cadets will be bonded?

[rykin]

Would be really worried if u are out 200k and bonded!

[Stallone]

S$200K through your own pocket and they want to bond you?? No Way

you can leave, if you have the capacity to pay off the loan by not flying for Jetstar Asia

[cancan7]

thank you so much for the info and quick reply!

I'm now a language teacher, and I've totally forgotten the Physics and Maths knowledge. Will this be fatal to my chances?

Thanks once again!

[Stallone]

thank you so much for the info and quick reply!

I'm now a language teacher, and I've totally forgotten the Physics and Maths knowledge. Will this be fatal to my chances?

Thanks once again!

gd luck dude.. this will be quite different from SIA looking at the way they assess candidates..

[cancan7]

thanks. I sure hope so! I couldn't even make it past the first round :ugh:

[Markzai]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone hv a rough estimate of how many non caas atpl (with >700hrs) pilots out there. In my school, I reckon at least 5. Perhaps those already in this line are most suitable in answering this post (thanks senior).

Just to hv a guage of what is the supply pool like for the JSA ACP.

I believe there will be competition.

Thank you.

[Skybound79]

Hello guys,

Just wondering if there's been any callup for the ACP yet?

[PNY]

With an anticipated start date of Feb 2011 right around the corner, has anyone at all been invited in for an ACP interview please???

[cancan7]

For the ab-initio cadet program applicants,

Has anyone received the next email from OAA with the address of the assessment venue? I sent the payment form over email, but have not received any reply.

Thanks

[Stallone]

do check your junk mail to see if it's there

give them some time to process, since your assessment is on Tuesday, they should give you a location by Friday or Monday

[Jezza88]

Does anyone know the actual process of the ab inito besides what is on the website.

To my understanding there is a CAAS ruling that a pilot needs 700hrs.

So what happens after the cadet finishes the abinito course? The cadet will definately not finish with anything close to 700hrs.

Please let me know if I am wrong about the ruling.

[Stallone]

which cadet will finish with 700hrs?

even SIA cadets after coming back from Perth don't have that kinda hour


after finishing the course in AUS, they'll send you to HKG to get your TR.. After which, more sim checks, then I'm not sure if you'll be qualified to fly the A320 as a F/O after that

[Jezza88]

Yeah I just wanted to know the process because I heard from someone that you need 700hrs before u can get type rating on RPT in singapore.

This cadetship sounds good but the cost is a major factor.

[Stallone]

like i mentioned, if you don't mind paying roughly $2500/month for 7years to pay off the loan, it's fine.. 'Cause you gonna have employment with Jetstar Asia, so it's quite safe if you don't lose the job

but people will have to factor in being income-less for 18months.

Jetstar Asia never mention anything about allowance other than lodging being provided in AUS and HKG(with food as well)

during the initial 6months in SIN ground school you might still be able to find ways to earn something. But when you head to AUS, things will be different..

[Jezza88]

yeah thats absoulety correct cadets will be income less, i dont think jetstar will provide any allowance because it is a self funded course.

Does any know what the pay rates of jetstar asia pilots are? right from SO to CPT.

[Stallone]

it's an ATPFO programme, so I doubt there's S/O position after graduation

[Stallone]

pay wise, this is the only info i can find online

Jetstar Asia Airways Pte Ltd jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Jetstar_Asia_Airways_Pte_Ltd)

[Jezza88]

thanks for that link...the pay rates seem decent, but once u factor in your loan and mortgage n expenses doubt you will be left with much.

[Stallone]

things to note:-

1. CPF contributions
2. Income Tax
3. License loan repayment

Deduct the 3 parts and then you'll be left with the real take home pay.

That's only base pay, Total pay per month is still heavily dependent on how many hours you fly.

[mynameisjon]

Just want to clarify here.

Those who think that CAAS require 700 for a Professional Pilot's License need to read the Air Safety Publication properly.

As per the regulations, you need 200 hours for a Professional Pilot's License IF you are following CAAS approved syllabus (approved school).

700 hours is for those who didn't, so those who want to covert from overseas require 700 hours to convert to CAAS.

[thrustpig]

The pay rates for JFO are low and fixed at basic. At the moment there is no flight pay for JFO's ie fly 100 hours per month for the same cash as flying 1 hour. You will be first called on "avail" days. Upgrade to SFO is at the will of the company and changes depending on the level of need. A blind man could see this this scheme is about cheap long term bonded labour. cavet emptor.

[Stallone]

how may hrs before you're qualified to be upgraded from JFO?

[dagger19]

at least 1000 after you have unfreeze your ATPL?
im not sure.

anyone received any invitation after 11th jan?

[lofty_dreams]

The OAA skills assessment will be held at Changi Village Hotel.

I am just wondering how many have been selected for the skills assessment. The Jetstar website states they are seeking 30 cadets..? Would an estimate of, maybe 60 selected for the test be accurate?

[Stallone]

applications closes only on 31st Jan.. MUCH MUCH more to come for assessments

60? you gotta be kidding

it's probably in the hundreds

hot period now.. ORD personnels, uni just finished a semester with graduates

[sgcloudchaser]

But I heard they are only conducting the week for one week.

[Stallone]

1. u heard from who?

2. what do u mean by "week for one week"?

[sgcloudchaser]

sorry, i meant to conduct the assessment only that very week. i was told by the OAA training adviser.

[Stallone]

but the application only closes on 31st Jan, next week can't be the only week.

[cancan7]

I was very very concerned when the email from OAA stated that I "should review my Physics and Maths skills". After all, I did my O levels 15 years ago, and have not done anything related to this since. :ugh:

I checked the website again OAA.com - Oxford Aviation Academy (http://www.oaa.com/pages/training_courses/ab_initio/integrated_training/skills_assessment.php)
and it stated that "Potential candidates need not be concerned that lack of flying experience or limited academic achievement will necessarily prejudice their prospects of success."

I hope that I still have a chance compared to the newly minted engineering grads :eek:

[Stallone]

haha.. don't have to worry much

O levels maths and physics should not be that hard..

F = MA
V = IR
W.d = FxD
acc = dv/dt
Speed Velocity Distance Time

Pythagoras theorem
TOA, CAH, SOH
Angles, Algebra, Curve Equations, Graph Interpretation

guess it won't be overly technical, but you've got to be fast when handling the questions

24qns in 20min, can you handle that?

[cancan7]

thanks for the formulae...

it's not hard... when I was 16 :\

I'm revising my Physics this weekend... but the maths... gotta ask my colleagues on Mon :p

Thanks again Stallone!

[haliflex]

hi cancan7, i will also be going for the assessment on tuesday

[antony.s]

Did you already check skytest software for middle east carriers which contains the compass modules (also part at oxford). The mathematics module contains almost the same tasks you have to know for the maths and physics test (speed, climbing, overtakes...)

[cancan7]

great! Mine starts at 0800. I've to wake up really early AND take a cab. What time is yours?

[haliflex]

oh.... mine is at 10.45am, so i guess i will see u there!

[dagger19]

for ppl who goes Day 1 on tuesday, when did u receive the email?

[cancan7]

I received the notification email on 11 Jan

[dagger19]

cancan7

thanks. Im still waiting for mine. all the best to you tm.
btw, do you remember when you applied?
just want to check if mine is still in the process or has already been reviewed and rejected.

[cancan7]

dagger19,

I can't remember the exact date but I think it was around 20-23 Dec 2010. All the best to your application. I'm sure you'll be called up soon.

[dagger19]

you can check from the confirmation email they sent.

i applied on 20th dec. hmmm... trying to be hopeful.

[cancan7]

I couldn't see the application date from the email they sent.

Don't lose hope Dagger. I'm already 31, and running out of time. This will probably be my last shot, against so much competition. I'm hoping for the best myself ;)

[dagger19]

just see when they send you the confirmation email? should be on the same day u applied?
anyway good luck to you, do update us on your process. =)

[cancan7]

I received the confirmation email a few weeks after I applied. I forgot about the online application to be honest! I wasn't expecting to be called up(been rejected too many times by SIA...)

Thanks. And I wish you and those going for the assessment all the best in their quest to fly. May the best people get selected!

[rykin]

8am? whao... thats REALLY early.

[rykin]

those that went today... any news regarding finance part?

[Stallone]

u will only know the details in the final stage when Jetstar Asia interviews u..

and this interview is done AFTER u've passed the 1st day and 2nd day OAA assessments

[haliflex]

first day is only the compass test, nothing else.

[haliflex]

anyone going for the 2nd round? i just got a call, going for my 2nd round tmr morning

[Stallone]

anyone going for the 2nd round? i just got a call, going for my 2nd round tmr morning

after your 2nd round, you should be able to get a reply within the same day(or next) asking you to go for the Jetstar Asia panel interview on the next day..

[Skybound79]

StallOne, you seem to know the hiring process pretty well. Would you have any info on what we can expect with regards to the ACP applications? Like whether JetStar has started calling prospective applicants for interviews or how soon interviews will commence? Appreciate info on this, thanks.

[Stallone]

ACP wise I have absolutely no idea really..

but i know training will be conducted in Singapore->Australia->UK->Hong Kong (Ab Initio)

UK wasn't stated in the website FYI..

as for whether ACP will be going to both AUS and UK or just one, this I'm not sure..

[Skybound79]

No worries and thanks for the update, StallOne.

Cheers!

[jamelica]

as stated on the website, the intake for the ab initio is 30.
does anyone know if thats throughout the year or initial intake?
Thanks!!

[Stallone]

it's probably the first intake.

this program is likely be run every quarter of the year

[Stallone]

P9xP814_ti0

Class 1 Medical requirements for those who are concerned about it

[jamelica]

i highly doubt so. that will be 120 cadets. do they need so many pilots?

[Stallone]

beats me.. I was surprised too when they said that..

[haliflex]

actually i doubt there will be 30 for the first intake. They only held the assessment for 1 week.

from what i see, there are about 20 odds a day there for the first round of compass test. only about half or less than half made it to the next round.

im guessing there's only about 20+ or 30+ that is able to make it to the final round.

i've cleared my first 2 rounds, now waiting for interview with jetstar direct. for my 2nd round, my group did pretty well, most of us passed the 2nd round.

anyone got any idea what will be the interview with jetstar be like? thanks!

[Stallone]

Day 1
6 candidates per session
2.5hrs per session
i guess there are 4 sessions per day

therefore 24 candidates per day are tested. How many day 1 assessments are there? unsure, my guess is probably till tomorrow, Saturday

6x24 candidates for day 1 assessment = 144

Day 2
5 candidates per session
unsure of how many sessions per day, but my guess is only one
how many day 2 assessments are there? unsure, my guess is 6 days, from tuesday to sunday

Day 2 shouldn't be a problem for all, as long as you can work as a team and communicate well..

so, 6x5 candidates for day 2 assessment = 30

might be more, because i'm assuming they can only hold 1 session of day 2 assessment per day. might have 2 sessions, which will DOUBLE the number to 60

-------------------------------------

from these (maximum) 60, they will head for the panel interview by Jetstar Asia, of which 30, according to website, will be chosen for this first batch..

they have 40 vacancies for ACP, totally not sure of how is the situation for it.. But i've got people with CPL+ATPL with 150ish hours in my group having to apply for the ab initio program instead.. hopefully, they can take in more ab initio with the empty leftover vacancies from ACP side

THIS IS ONLY MY ASSUMPTION, DO NOT QUOTE ME

[Stallone]

and to add, the course starts in March/April, applications only closes on 31st Jan

so there might be more assessments in February..

can expect another 60 or more to compete for the 30 vacancies

[sgcloudchaser]

overheard that the license issued will be CASA as jetstar is still talking to CAAS on having CAAS license issue for the program. how true is this?

[Stallone]

u heard from where?

[haliflex]

When will training start?
We have courses scheduled in 2011 for Jetstar Asia ATPFO and ACP each with a varying number of cadets. Further courses will be scheduled to meet Jetstar Asia requirements over the next few years.

quoted from Oxford FAQ (http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program/who-is-oxford/oxford-faq.aspx)


funny, i thought previously they mentioned that the course will start in march. did they change it?

[Stallone]

no they didn't change it

it has been there all along..

1st batch starts in March...

[jamelica]

i guess the intake will probably be quite small given the figures. Major airline cadet program has figures of 20. 10 should be reasonable for Jetstar with a smaller fleet size.

[Stallone]

so u saying that the 30 vacancy they stated in their website is quota for ONE year of 4 quarters?

thus each batch is only about 8 cadets?


don't forget there's still the ACP. if by your definition, JSA is taking in the same number of cadets combined as a major airline

[haliflex]

but most if not all jetstar pilots are on contract basis? perhaps this programme is to actually let jetstar have their own pool of pilots ? in this case, there's no worries of pilot shortage. probably a bigger intake at the start to replace most of the contract pilots.

for other major airlines, they already got their own pool of pilots, hence the small intake?


just my humble opinion, got no experience in the aviation industry

[Stallone]

yeah, that's one possibility..

perhaps they want their own pool of pilots and stop relying on direct entry ones..

[bowing]

own pool of pilots and not rely on direct entry ones?....geez you must be that green and desperate for a shiny jet?good luck...:ok:

[Stallone]

elaborate please

[bowing]

are you talking cadet pool of pilots?or Direct entry pool of pilots?
they already have a pool of pilots direct entry to mix with the cadets...wont disrupt the schedule....

[dagger19]

for jetstar asia, they just started their cadet program. where do you think jetstar get their mix of cadets from? i dont think they have till the 1st batch starts on 31st march.

[Stallone]

are you talking cadet pool of pilots?or Direct entry pool of pilots?
they already have a pool of pilots direct entry to mix with the cadets...wont disrupt the schedule....

own pool = "self trained" specifically for Jetstar Asia

not plucked from Jetstar or employed through applications(direct entry) from their online website

[bowing]

so how did you apply for cadetship?:ugh:
where did you get the info from?
website?
so arent you plucked from there?

[Stallone]

i think u're having trouble understanding what i'm saying

ONLINE = experienced pilots with eligible hours to apply for direct entry into Jetstar Asia

[bowing]

ok but all the best with the cadetship:ok:

[jamelica]

anyone has any idea when jetstar will be conducting the interview for those that have made it to stage 3?

[Stallone]

the people from OAA should give you a time frame when they told you you've passed stage 2 right?

maybe now there's alot to interview and they're not sure of Jetstar's schedule..

then i think you just have to wait for the call from Jetstar to inform you the day and time.. It'll be at T1.. Just be patient..

[haliflex]

perhaps they are trying to learn a lesson from what happened to tiger airways recently.

jamelica u waiting for the 3rd round? yeah OAA did tell us.. but they didnt give a timeframe.. said it all just depends on Jetstar to schedule..

and i think the assessment stage for the ab initio program has stopped already? anybody still going for the assessment?

[Stallone]

according to the hotel booking sign, OAA booked the place from 17th-23rd Jan..

whether they'll be back again in February for another round of assessments nobody knows..

one more week to closing of application..

[jamelica]

if they can find who they want with the current batch, i guess theres no need for them to be back again. is the course starting at the start of march or late march?

[haliflex]

hey stallone, i'm pretty sure Jetstar changed the deadline. I remember it was 31st initially on the jetstar website. now they have changed it.

Oxford FAQ (http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program/who-is-oxford/oxford-faq.aspx)


What is the application deadline?
There is no application deadline but applicants will be judged on a first come first served basis. In the case of a course being full already, OAA will hold applications for the following intakes and notify you as required of the situation.

[jamelica]

he might be referring to the deadline he saw when you express your interest in the programme.

[haliflex]

just happen to surf the internet, this is what i saw

The Jetstar Cadet Pilot Training Program is an 18 month program. The program will initially seek up to 30 Singaporean or residents in the region to join the program in 2011 with selection taking place in January and the course starting in March next year. Suitable candidates may have limited or no flying experience, however they must meet Jetstar’s requirements for aptitude, quality and safety to enter.

The Advanced Cadet Program is a six month program that will be launched in February 2011. It is designed to assist non-commercial pilots transitioning to commercial flying. Jetstar and OAA will be looking to attract experienced pilots who can undertake the course to obtain their ATPL and be qualified as a commercial pilot. There will be around 40 places available on this program.

from Jetstar Launches Cadet Pilot Program in Singapore (http://www.asiatraveltips.com/news10/2012-CadetPilots.shtml)


does Jetstar really need 70 pilots in the next 1-2 years?

[jamelica]

they wont need 70 and the intake will definitely not be 30 for ab initio. less than 10 and definitely very very competitive.

[haliflex]

actually why do u say so? care to elaborate? why less than 10?

anybody know people that actually went thru OAA ab initio program? another point i was thinking, can OAA actually start the program if Jetstar really decided to take in like less den 10 cadets? To me, it doesnt make sense to do so much work, set up so much logistics to cater for less than 10 cadets. OAA is actually setting up dedicated Ground Training Centre in Singapore for all CAAS approved ATPL Theoretical Knowledge Training. there's pretty much administration stuff to prepare for this.. and im sure they won't wanna do just for a few cadets.

just trying to be positive here and hoping jetstar is taking in a large number! :O

[Stallone]

yes, the 31st Jan deadline can only be seen when you submit your interest, it can't be found anywhere in the FAQ page

as for 70 pilots, they're continuously increasing destinations, not sure about how many A320s will there be 18months later, but 70 is not a lot considering the number of flight crew that is attached to an aircraft

for example:
one plane needs 10 sets of crews to operate to its maximum capacity.

1 set = 2 pilots + 4 cabin crew
10 sets = 20 pilots + 40 cabin crew

currently they have fleet size of 12 x A320

12 planes = 12x20 pilots + 12x40 cabin crew

so ya, that's quite a lot of pilots needed..

[jamelica]

is it 10 set? more like 10 per aircraft. do not think its the former. and not forgetting, they already have pilots to fly the 12 planes right now.
they will be setting up the ground school with a long term vision and not just for this intake i guess.

just some guess, but i am just trying to be realistic.

[Stallone]

ok, let's create a scenario

Plane A - A320
Pilot pairs: A1 - A10 (10 sets)

let's say Plane A flies to HKG twice daily, 6am flight and 6pm flight from SIN
To and fro takes around 7.5hrs at least

MONDAY - A1(am), A2(pm)
TUESDAY - A3(am), A4(pm)
WEDNESDAY - A2(am), A1(pm)
THURSDAY - A4(am), A3(pm)
FRIDAY - A1(am), A2(pm)
SATURDAY - A3(am), A4(pm)
SUNDAY - A2(am), A1(pm)

let's say pilots work every alternate days, this is the above roster roughly

when the plane comes back from HKG at 1.30pm, it will not idle at the airport, it will fly a short trip to maybe Penang or KL and back (twice) before 6pm for its second trip to HKG.. That's where pilot pairs A5-A8 comes in.. A9 and A10 will be on standby or on rotation since pilots usually dun work as frequently as alternate days

how about the time between 1.30am and 6am?? ground the plane at airport?

does 10sets of pilot pairs look a lot to you now?

[haliflex]

jetstar is expanding, as u all know, there will be 2 new routes in march, and they are acquiring another a330.

as for setting up ground school, jamelica u were saying about long term goal. actually there isn't much airlines in SG that will train cadet pilots. SQ got its own training centre. Tiger airways affiliated to SQ so i doubt they will come up with any training program.

most of other airlines basically got their own training centres in other countries. So i don't see any potential customers for OAA other than Jetstar. Looking from OAA point of view, i'm sure they won't risk setting up for a small intake at the start. And it seems like only Jetstar will be engaging their services from this region. And I don't see Jetstar needing even more pilots in the future as they will have their own pool of bonded pilots from this ab initio and ACP. trying to be positive here :O

[AceTham]

I am told that i have passed the 2nd stage and how long does it takes to go to the 3rd stage?

Will jetstar agree on my company notice period if my notice period is 2 months?

Kinda worried.

[Stallone]

need not worry.. if you can't meet the March batch, you can always go for the later batch, hopefully they won't forget you..

as for how long Jetstar takes to call, no idea, just wait, but they will call..

[AceTham]

Thanks for the reply. Hopefully they will be fine with that. If not i will need to resign and pay a penalty of 13k. You really think they will be alright?

Have anyone been contacted for the 3rd stage already?

[Stallone]

S$13k is alot of money, enough to feed you during the 18month course..

opt for the later batch, i'm sure it can be worked out

by their word, next batch will probably be in the later half of 2011

[Stallone]

six, haha, ok

Gone Case

[bowing]

jetstar do not have the number of training capts sufficient to fly around with cadets hence the limited amount of cadets to go thru:ok:
the whole operation will be screwed cause of no flexibility of rosters.......

[Stallone]

question is, this assessment held last week, are they taking in 30, then give them different start dates, or are they taking only 6?

then next batches further down the year they gonna hold assessments again to take in 6 each time?

[haliflex]

oh my, 6. :D:D:D guess its back to reality. haha.


btw jamelica did u manage to ask when will they start the interview?

[Stallone]

haha, did you just turn 23 today?!?!

[haliflex]

u are good at looking at details stallone! yeah, i am 23 today :D:D hahah

[Stallone]

lol, happy birthday dude~

[bowing]

6 is the right number this year

[haliflex]

thanks stallone! seeing the number 6, just made me land my dreamcraft! hahah

[lofty_dreams]

omg.. 6 cadets!

When I received the email for the OAA skills assessment, I was quite hesitant to pay the $400 and 'try my luck'. As it is, I have a 70k bond hanging over my head in my current employment, which will apply for the next 3 years.

As desperate as I was to get into the cockpit, I chose the coward / safe way out and decided to stick to my current job at least until my bond is over. I just couldnt convince myself to pay the 70k bond to resign now plus the 100k+ bond with jetstar (IF I could get in. Seeing the magic '6' number now, I guess the chances are extremely slim).

Reality sucks.

[Stallone]

6 out of a probable 144

4.16% chance, those who get it must be damn lucky

[bowing]

thats very unfortunate the reality is its not what you know its who you know is the case and will always be....:bored:

[haliflex]

2 out of 6 taken. 4 more to go. good luck guys

[jamelica]

may the best guys get it :)

[lofty_dreams]

I guess at least 1 winner will be OAA.

$400*144=$57000 thereabouts

Minus off the overheads etc, probably 20k profit for the 2 weeks of tests.


Yes, yes, I am being a sour grape..

[Stallone]

haha, i'm thinking along the lines too, $400/person for the assessments..

:rolleyes::D

[haliflex]

i bet everyone will be thinking along that line after knowing they are taking in 6 cadets.

its not even 2 weeks. one week of work :D:D:D

[AceTham]

Dear all,

I have recieve the golden call from Jetstar to go for the 3rd stage interview on 31st jan. Wish all luck to those who are going. Take care.

[dagger19]

AceTham
how long did you wait after your 2nd day for the call for jetstar interview?

[AceTham]

Hi dagger, I waited from sat till today.

[Stallone]

guess there are panel interviews held this week too, since you're from Saturday..

was there Day 1 assessment during Saturday?

[AceTham]

Saturday was the day 2 assessment. And I dun think there is any more interviews this week. As I got news that all the 26 that pass are having interview this week with jetstar.

[Stallone]

huh, only 26 meh...

there's more I reckon..

[Stallone]

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5763/blueangelsformation02.jpg

lucky 6

[jamelica]

given the stats, 1 guy from each group will enter. the most outstanding one.

[Stallone]

which makes me think

outstanding during panel interview or outstanding during OAA assessments


will the Jetstar Asia management meet up with the OAA representatives to discuss who to choose?

[jamelica]

they will probably look at our files and how we fared for the OAA assessments. together with the interview with the panel.

[dagger19]

has anyone been informed to go interview in feb?

[Skybound79]

Any news regarding ACP yet? Its been really quiet on the ACP front...

[Droste]

Military guys... unlikely to join. There are many reasons why. Jetstar Asia can forget absorbing them for the time being. What left over are ordinary civilians (Singaporeans) who are holding CAAS or foreign licence. If Jetstar seriously considering foreign licence holders (e.g. CASA, FAA, TC, DCAM) (less than 700 hours), they have to undertake the repsonsibility and to convert licence for them. A CAAS conversion crash course for Singapore foreign licence holders could be the best and cheap option! For the P2F scheme, may be too much money. Military and civilian guys can't afford.

[Stallone]

military guys from RSAF will go SIA

unless they've been rejected by SIA, then it's another case

[dream747]

I suppose the ACP's intake is going to be small as well? Anyone have news on the ACP?

[Stallone]

website says 40 for ACP

divide into 5 intakes like the Ab Initio (30 / 5), then it should be 8 for the first batch?


just a guess

[Droste]

Like I mentioned earlier, I think Jetstar Asia may hard to absorb in RSAF guys . The only group of people left to be chosen are civilians and must be rich enough to pay for the training. The civilians are either CAAS or foreign licence holders. Futher narrowing down, only a handful who can afford.To know who can afford or not, all applicants have to be called for inteview. This could be the only way to find out.The first 40 for the ACP or the initial batch of ACP are the guinea pigs. I wonder has Jetstar Asia prepared?

[Stallone]

i think they will have to adjust the number according to the response they get from ACP.. it's like "testing water"

if there's alot, then it's fine

or else, they will have to do some adjustments to the requirements..

[PNY]

Folks,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there are well over 300 applications for the ACP alone as of this date and counting. The price being requested is acceptable to many experienced ACP candidates, quite a few that have been airline pilot's in the past, some with lapsed licenses, looking to get their feet wet again.

Even a direct entry First Officer, Singaporean or Foreigner, JetStarAisa or Tiger Airways, has to fork out S$60,000 ($30,000 upfront and the additional via salary deduction) for the A320 Type Rating. The only difference is that with Tiger Airways the training is done in France and for JetStarAsia at Alteon Training. Competition for direct entry has been from Foreigners with good jet experience for many years now.

So there are lots of experienced people in the wings, many with Jet Time, that are more than anxious than ever to apply and go through the ACP just to be able to return to the cockpit.

Please do not bombard me with replies that I am full of crap... in many ways aviation is very very challenging... go ahead and hang around Seletar East Camp for a couple of days and you will see what I mean by the people with Jet time looking for a job... or visit the hall ways of Tamesik or Republic Poly aviation program and asks the very experienced pilots, current or not, that work there as lecturers...

None of this is meant to discourage you, in fact if my own son was old enough, I would have him applying for the full course ab-initio myself... just felt this posting was due so that we all can stay within the realm of reality...

Good luck and god bless all... stay focused and you will make it...

[Stallone]

are u saying there are over 300 singaporeans with 700hrs jet time appplying for ACP??

It's a programme no foreigner can apply

[Droste]

Stallone is right. Wow...Wow...Wow over 300 applications? Shocking. EEK! Are they all red passport holders? Hm...300 applicants can't get into SIA/Silkair and eager to folk out money to join Jetstar Asia? Hm...300 applicants probably earn well in the past, therefore can afford to pay. They may be old, experienced and rich too. If yes, how old are they? Wonder can their age be considered by Jetstar Asia in order to serve them long term?

[PNY]

Well, they are not all with Red Singapore Passport holders either, plenty with just a PR (Blue I/C) who were forced out of aviation due to previous medical's, economic forces, etc.

Actually, 300 is a very small number, people did not spread the word to limit competition... but it still comes down to who you know, not what you know many times... and most are in their 40's too... in fact how many Red Passport Holders with military Jet time at SYFC servicing as Flight Instructors...

Does anybody have any information as to when ACP will start their interviews please...

[Droste]

Thanks PNY! :-) If I have not mistaken, one of OAA Minimum Entry Requirements previously stated was for Singapore Citizens only. Hah...Jetstar Asia finally realised that they can't get enough (Singapore Citizen) applicants, so they lifted their barriers to P.R. (blue i/c). Looks like 300 applicants are likely to be rich and qualified P.R. applicants. If that's the case, ACP will work. Like what you mentioned - "who you know, not what you know many times". This is very true and I agree with you.

[Stallone]

SPR has always been a criteria when i first read it back in December

but SPR with 700hrs is weird.. i mean, what are they doing in singapore??

Singapore has no GA, nothing at all..

[PNY]

People are here as SPR in Singapore, some with thousands of hours, due to turmoil in the aviation industry back home... there are lots of them around too. Even an average SYFC Flight Instructor at Seletar, a Singaproe Citizen with military jet time, may decide this is a good deal for himself.

No GA, you must be ill informed, go to WingsOverAsia and check it out please...

Keep the faith... they will have to retire well before you ... good luck!

[Stallone]

WingsOverAsia.com Social Network (http://www.wingsoverasia.com/forum/subindex/1)

seriously, there's GA jobs in the website?

i don't see anything significant

[PNY]

Mr Stallone,

You have convinced me through your postings that I should not waste time trying to assist people young enough to be my son's let alone motivate them all together.

Since having arrived in Singapore in 2005, for the 2nd time, I have gotten my last 2 flying jobs by networking alone and I provided you an avenue to do so and hoped that you would take the hint. I have even personally hired people here into flying jobs that met me via networking bacause in life much is who you know and not what you know.

I really do not wish to waste my time with more negativity that you will bring and humbly suggest that you ask your self who you are and who you want to be every single day and then perhaps your Directioanl Gyro will align with the Magnetic Compass and you will make it someday.

That having been said, I wish each and everyone of you well, and pray for blue skies and tailwinds always. However, I have been in aviation long enough to know that life is just not so. God bless one and all.

[dagger19]

PNY

Since having arrived in Singapore in 2005, for the 2nd time, I have gotten my last 2 flying jobs by networking alone and I provided you an avenue to do so and hoped that you would take the hint. I have even personally hired people here into flying jobs that met me via networking bacause in life much is who you know and not what you know.

i would be disappointed if this is true, especially in aviation industry that i have passion and believe in. i actually came across situation where this is true (SIA cadet pilot), where one candidate is a close church friend with one interviewer captain. the candidate's final interview only lasted for 7 mins and he got selected anyway.

if this is the rule in aviation, i guess for aspiring pilots like us, we can only play by it, expanding ur contacts to the cockpit. it is kinda sad, but its understandable how the society (not only airlines) works.

[Droste]

dagger19, you are right. Everywhere is the same (not only in aviation industry). I am not surprise SIA did. Almost every pilot in Air India has connection! Even in MAS and AirAsia too! One real life example: More women pilots flying (http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_603486.html) Conclusion after watching: Zephina Khanam got into AirAsia because of her kins. Then, Ong Sook Min got into AirAsia because of her husband.

[PNY]

No no, you can certainly still make it without connections but there are times in life when having networked and having you name known to the powers to be, even if they do not know you personally, makes all the difference folks... so plug away hard, network too, and you WILL make it!!!

Never ever give up on your life's dreams, for if I did with all that has gone wrong in my life, I would have been dead many times over... think positively and somehow things will eventually work out in your favor and you will be pleasantly surprised!

[Stallone]

haha, yes....

tough right...

check PM

[cancan7]

I've not followed this thread for quite some time, having failed the 1st round assessment...

Nevertheless, I hope that those went through the interview will make it :)

All the best! And don't forget to tell us the good news!

[Bukitdream]

Hope the magic number is 28 29 30 and not 6....

The Dream is Still Alive!!!!

[Stallone]

it's not about the magic number

is about whether they'll keep those who are good enough for the later batches in the year instead of choosing the top 6 and throwing away the rest no matter how good they are

[Bukitdream]

Oh yea hor

[bowing]

any news on the interviews?good luck to all:ok:

[haliflex]

they are not just taking in 6, i asked and they said up to 30. but it will be in batches. first batch is 6. so good luck all.

[Stallone]

ok, as long as they don't throw, it's fine

need not necessarily be inside first batch

[Stallone]

yes no doubt....

AUD142,500

Don't even know if the cadets need to pay a smaller lump sum first, like in the range of AUD$20,000 or so before being allowed to start the course.

the financing part seriously needs more information

[jamelica]

you will definitely have to come out with the lump sum. In fact, it clearly states on the website about partial funding and thats very similar to the australian cadet program. i guess the scheme for the singapore and australian has very little difference if not similar and they will only help you fund like 40 grand out of the whole course fees.

[Stallone]

some little info on how the financing part works at the Aussie Jetstar

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/424597-jetstar-cadet-program.html

[dagger19]

does anyone know if the selection process is over or still on-going?

[haliflex]

after reading the thread posted by Stallone, kinda demoralized :sad:

kinda scary to be jobless after the contract ends... cant do anything with my qualifications.

didnt know you are 19 only StallOne!

[Stallone]

no......

if i'm 19, i'd be serving my NS, not lingering around here..

i'm already 26 this year

[haliflex]

oh, misread a post from you. :oh::oh:

[bowing]

It is very sad that you are only there for 6 years and then your future is uncertain but thats the way Airlines do business..once they have milked your money and every single cent they move on...even though the short term gain is a shiny jet the longterm future will get much more gloomier...sad but true...

[haliflex]

seems like the perfect plan for both OAA and Jetstar... :D:D

OAA will continue to get people to pay them 150k for their training... and Jetstar will continue to get all the new pilots... it's a cycle. after contract finish, new batch of pilots come in..

[Stallone]

JSA didn't mention anything about 6-year bond, only the Aussie one has it

[jamelica]

JSA is a five year bond. excluding training.

[Stallone]

what five years?!?!

how come I didn't see it in the FAQ page?

Oxford FAQ (http://www.jetstar.com/sg/en/pilot-cadet-program/who-is-oxford/oxford-faq.aspx)

[haliflex]

because i asked them during the interview...

[Bukitdream]

Couldn't catch much sleep. Kept thinking about what the outcome might be. Has anyone got any news on whether jsa has decided who to hire?

The dream is still alive!!!!

[Stallone]

haha, still early days dude, get some sleep... think gotta wait till end of February before anyone hears anything..

it's already been 3weeks of waiting for me, so just live life as it is..




as for the bond, i have no idea on what grounds are they bonding the cadets when the cadets have to fork out the money through their own pockets..

[bowing]

thats the complexity of the system they have installed will be many more surprises twists and turns....trust me I hear it from current cadets....:rolleyes:

[Stallone]

there's "current" cadets in Jetstar Asia?

[bowing]

jetstar network whether your oz,nz,pacific in vietnam or Asia....pay to fly.....

[rotatejunkie]

Stallone---

What's the problem with being bonded?

Does'nt it mean that you will have a job waiting for you? Maybe conditions aren't as rosy as you would have expected, in comparison to many other carriers.

But being bonded means you WILL be gaining hours RHS.

Its all about making the best of the opportunities that are presented to you.

Which other carrier would hire a low-timer on type?

If you're limited to a legal total of 900 hrs per annum, that would mean at least a year and a half on the line.

And "FROZEN ATPL" means under 1500 hours and other intricacies.
I reckon a 3-5 year bond is practical in terms of hours accumulation.


It's a good thing buddy, think about it. :ok:

[haliflex]

yeah... i would guess its more like a contract then bond.

who wanna take the risk, pay 150k AUD for the training with the risk of not getting a job after that?

[Bukitdream]

Perhaps coming from a point where I have no lives to feed, I will probably take whatever Jsa throw at me...

Shall we make a poll? Regardless of one time payment or salary sacrifice over "x" years....

Pay >188k sgd for a stint with Jsa and hope with no guarantee that Jsa will offer employment beyond bond(contract)
1 Bukitdream would
2
3
4

Not pay >188k sgd for Jsa with no guarantee of a job thereaft
1
2
3
4

[dagger19]

jamelica
a call for jetstar interview or accepted?

[haliflex]

I got the call, there will be a briefing by jsa later this month, hopefully to iron out the details.

Anyone else got the call as well? A couple of guys from my day 2 got it as well

[Stallone]

well done Haliflex!

which day will the briefing be?

[dagger19]

jamelica
did you get the call as well?

[thrustpig]

cadet pay, after check to line ( ask some of the aussie guys how long that takes ) is apparently flat rate $2000SD per month. Take out your tax, cpf, medical, license fees etc...... good luck, and the bond.........well word on the street is the MOM, Ministry of Manpower, is not supporting non-reducing bonds any more, so i guess that if after a few years of 100+ non fatigue managed hours per month, or you loose your medical, you can pull the pin and work in a coffee shop to pay off your bond. on ya j*.

[Stallone]

let the guys go for a briefing first and see what are the true details..

$2000/month will be a joke if it's true, but you're just speculating..

there's no way one could pay off the loan with such a pay, you'll need at least double of that.

[Stallone]

i suspect Jetstar Asia might pay part of the package and using that as a ground to bond you with them for 5years

don't forget you're gonna need living expenses during the 18month course, and the money will probably come from family support, unless you have around S$15k to spare on your own during this period..

else, you add another S$15k to your debt list, owed to your family or whoever you borrowed from..

[haliflex]

misread the post. how can be 2000sgd? :uhoh::uhoh:

no use speculating now. wait till the brief

[Skybound79]

Or perhaps $2000 pay is after monthly deduction for the training costs?

[bowing]

its a quick way for jetstar to make money....and lower costs ...ie why pay a full salary to a qualified f/o when you could get them for the tenth of the cost...its all about the numbers and management bonuses....:bored:

[PNY]

Anybody out there get interviewed yet for the Advanced Cadet Course please?

[bolueeleh]

nope, no news yet. :suspect:

[Pirre]

Has anyone even been contacted for the Advanced Cadet Course?

[PNY]

Well, I don't know about others, but I have not been contacted (let alone interviewed) and I have had 2 people on the inside even recommend me...

[dream747]

There is a selection going on for the ACP this week.

[PNY]

dream747

By selection I can only assume interviews, do you know who is doing them please?

Also, are you absolutely sure it is being done this week?

Anybody else out that can confirm please?

[Pirre]

When you are talking about the selection this week & interview...I presume that you have already been contacted by Jetstar? Or do you mean that people will be contacted this week only? Please confirm?

[dream747]

The applicants who are shortlisted for the selection this week have been contacted already. It is also a 3 day selection process, exactly like the APTFO apparently.

[PNY]

dream747,

With all due respect, is it just me or does this not make any sense....

[Loer]

Hey ppl,

Juz wanna check if anyone who sent in their applications after that first round of interviews has heard anything. I sent mine in on 27th jan but haven't heard anything yet. Would they still contact us if we were rejected? leaving us hanging in limbo?... arg..

And would those who have went care to share a little bout the interviews. would really appreciate that alot.

Cheerios


Dreaming of clear skies and tailwinds always.

[dream747]

PNY,

We sat for the Advanced Compass Test. I don't know why it's a requirement to despite holding licenses already but I think most of us cleared that process. We're just waiting for the interview.

[PNY]

dream747: May I ask if you are former RSAF please?

This is how the powers to be at JetStarAsia explained to me is the interview / hiring protocol strictly:

1. Fresh from college for the cadet pilot scheme.
2. RSAF pilots for the Advanced Cadet Pilot Program who have had a minimum of 12 years of service and the airline values their discipline, leadership, training and culture.
3. Type rated FOs with a minimum of 500 hours on A320 for Junior FO with preference to those with much more hours who can be Senior FO's.


Not to ruin any one else day (mine is already ruined) but this is what is Tiger Airways interview / hiring protocol now:

1. Type rated FOs with a minimum of 500 hours on A320 for Junior FO with preference to those with much more hours who can be Senior FO's.
2. Those not meeting the A320 experience requirements are fresh out of luck as all the other slots have been reserved / promised to the many MCPL coming through the STATA program (I did not even know that the MCPL had been approved by CAAS and I have a CAAS license)


I hope this will assist the many readers of this topic... and keep the faith...

[dream747]

I am a fresh CAAS cpl holder. What about your background?

[PNY]

dream 747 - please check your pm

Anyway, I am happy that what I wrote about the requirement for ACP is incorrect as there are those of you out there reading this also hoping to get in and are not necessarily RSAF, etc.

Let's hope we all get to our dreams... Good luck!