Ils landing lights

[pigi]

Hi to everybody,
I'm a rotorcraft IR pilot and I switch on my landing lights when established on ILS. I was told to do that and that's what I do.
Is there any written rule about that? or something compulsory about using the landing lights on ifr approaches ( FAA or JAA)?
Tks for your help
Piergiorgio

[Tunfisk]

Hello.

In my company, we turn the landing lights on when cleared to land.
Our Phrase is "Cleared to land, lights on, gear down"

I don't see any wrong doings about turning them on when established on the ILS.

[AerocatS2A]

We turn them on through 10,000'. The point being to make yourself more visible in the terminal area.

[rhythm method]

Our Phrase is "Cleared to land, lights on, gear down"

I hope that is just a visual check that everything is in place to land... being cleared to land at 300ft doesn't give much time to dangle the Dunlops (not to mention that irritating 'gringo' shouting "Too Low, Gear!" :ok::}

[A37575]

We turn them on through 10,000'

How things have changed throughout the years. Landing lights were designed for night use. To be switched on just before rolling on the take off run and switched off within seconds of landing gear retraction. One of the reasons for early switching off after lift off was to minimise the blinding reflection entering cloud and distracting the crew. Modern pilots obviously are not affected by lights reflecting back into the cockpit. That is a good thing.

For landing, the landing lights were turned on at 200 feet just before crossing the threshold. They were used to illuminate the runway surface. To aid judgement of flare height. To illuminate drunks or animals on the runway. In fog or mist the landing lights were off for landing to prevent being blinded momentarily if the aircraft was passing through ground fog patches. Pilots were taught to be able to land without the aid of landing lights because landing lights can go u/s. The life of the light globes were based upon the above rate of usage.

In later years, someone thought it would be a Good Thing to turn on the lights below 10,000 ft regardless of being a bright sunny day or a pitch black night in cloud. Ooh! look, sez observers on the ground - I can see aeroplane lights high in the sky. Aren't they luverly? They are certainly no help to pilots at 10,000 ft...

Already, airliners are festooned with strobes, tail advertising logo lights and passenger window lights. Seems an overkill having landing lights all over the sky below 10,000 ft.

[pigi]

Yep, but the question was: is there any written rule or it's just a good habit?
Tks
Piergiorgio

[Luckyguy]

Some call it airmanship.......

I believe that the thought behind turning the landing lights on below 10,000' was two-fold.
The first is to make the aircraft visible to other aircraft in the radar vectoring area/terminal area, whatever you may call it. It is possibly of slightly less usefulness these days with the advent of new generation ACAS systems but nonetheless, on a personal note gives me a warm feeling that I can confirm the position of the aircraft in conjunction with the ACAS display.

The second is detailed in an Airbus operational briefing notes here:
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/files/safety_library_items/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-OPS_ENV-SEQ05.pdf

It has always been for that reason that I have left them on until, and turned them on at, 10,000'.

For all the good reasons that have been pointed out already, turning them off a times is prudent too.

Hope this helps.

[BOAC]

written rule - not in regs, but company rules may impose. Otherwise 'as you like it'.

[con-pilot]

We turn them on through 10,000'. The point being to make yourself more visible in the terminal area.

This is mostly standard in the US, the lights are not used to improve the pilot's vision, duh, but as an anti-collision aid. It has been firmly established that aircraft with landing lights on are much easier to see, no matter the time of day or night.

This was confirmed by studies by NASA, The Flight Safety Foundation, United States Air Force and the FAA.

I turned on the landing lights on during the descent every aircraft I flew at 10,000 feet as long as I can remember, and that's a long time.

Also the lights are on for takeoff and turned off leaving 10,000 feet on the climb.

[deefer dog]

Day: ON between 0 and 10,000 ft
Night: ON when SAT is warmer than minus 40 degrees

[BOAC]

It has been firmly established that aircraft with landing lights on are much easier to see, no matter the time of day or night. - which is why I used to put them on when I judged them necessary - eg crossing the London TMA in descent well above 10k. There are far more important checks to be done at 10k than 'lights' which used to be the F/O's first priority:ugh:

[Suzeman]

Not cockpit crew but I seem to remember that switching on the landing lights during the day on the ILS became the norm in the UK during the 1970s.

I was told that this was to aid conspicuity and also acted as a deterrent to birds flying near the aircraft

Suzeman

[flyburg]

I may be wrong but isn't it even a FAR in the states to turn them on below 10.000?

[autoflight]

Landing lights saved mid-air between RAAF Caribou and a USN Crusader in 1965 while en-route at 100ft AGL in really rotten weather. We each saw the other's lights and turned right just in time. Operational pressure had our Caribou there but I could never figure why any other aircraft would need to be right there. Nevertheless, that particular risk was considered greater than indicating our position more acurately to enemy ground forces.

In nearly 40 years of flying I believe this is the only case where landing lights on saved my life. I figure just making it safer is worthwhile, so I'm so far ahead on the deal.

Every pilot should not have to learn by experience. Unless your company has some other procedure for lights, landing lights on below 10,000 ft is a no-brainer.

[Helen49]

I think Suzeman is right and Aer Lingus were probably among the first to use landing lights for this purpose back in the 70's.

[nitpicker330]

For what it's worth in CX we switch on the LDG LTS for all the climb and all the descent day or night. Bit silly in daytime really, by the time you see my lights it'll be too late!!

[con-pilot]

Bit silly in daytime really, by the time you see my lights it'll be too late!!

No, it is not a "bit silly". For anti-collision benefits, the use of landing lights during daylight is very effective.

[A37575]

For anti-collision benefits, the use of landing lights during daylight is very effective.

Why not go the whole hog? Give the window seat passengers high powered LED flashlights in their seat nets and below 10,000 ft get them to shine the lights through their nearest window. The whole aircraft is then lit up like a Christmas Tree. Turn on the wing de-ice illumination and wheel well lights while you are there. Cockpit overhead lights could be turned right up and even the moveable map light could be turned to focus outside the side windows.

All these are splendid ideas to enhance collision avoidance and if explained to the passengers as part of the safety briefing I am sure they would be willing participants:ok:

[Pheasant Plucker]

If you look on the 'Ann-Summers' website you will find a whole different use for 'landing lights':eek:

FYI this was brought to the attention of us innocents at a certain control centre 'north of the border' when one of our colleagues inadvertantly dropped a receipt with a long list of items on it, one of which was 'landing lights'.

Being somewhat naive we Googled it...and got...er... a surprise:eek::eek:

I'd be a bit worried if you got 'turned on' at 8 miles after switching on these:}

[Golf-Sierra]

A37575 & Pheasant Plucker

Yeah, just imagine that - CC ask PAX to switch on and hold their landing lights in the windows. Hilarious :}

[con-pilot]

Why not go the whole hog? Give the window seat passengers high powered LED flashlights in their seat nets and below 10,000 ft get them to shine the lights through their nearest window. The whole aircraft is then lit up like a Christmas Tree. Turn on the wing de-ice illumination and wheel well lights while you are there. Cockpit overhead lights could be turned right up and even the moveable map light could be turned to focus outside the side windows.

All these are splendid ideas to enhance collision avoidance and if explained to the passengers as part of the safety briefing I am sure they would be willing participants

While being very amusing, I'm sure, it does not change the facts. If you are a pilot, I sincerely pray and hope you are mostly kidding, but have the landing lights on when below 10,000 feet.

Then again, possibly when and where you fly, you are the only aircraft in the sky. If so, I see no need for you to have the landing lights on below 10,000 feet. Just make damn sure you are not in the area of sky that I am flying in please.

Thank you.

[AerocatS2A]

The difference between the landing lights and all of the other lights fitted to the aircraft such as wing inspection, strobes, nav lights etc, is that landing lights are powerful enough to be visible from a long way away in the daytime. The rest of them, not so much.

[Admiral346]

I'll have the landing lights on below 10000', in a holding pattern at any Alt, day or night. I'll turn them on to see wether I am in cloud or not during the night. I'll leave the logo lights on at night. Just to may be seen better from the side.
During LVO I'll taxi with the wing inspection lights on, maybe even strobes. Just to be seen a little earlier. And maybe that saved me from being hit by that crazy pushbacktruck driver in CDG last winter. There were only about 5m left...
I'll turn on the center landing light when taxiing at dark areas of an airfield, because sometimes my taxilights just simply suck.

Nic

PS: When flying longhaul to Africa a few years ago, we'd turn the lights on at top of descent... or off at top of climb...

[2992]

Use of landing lights below 10 is in the AIM, and thus not regulatory:

But my annoyance is the use of nav lights during the day. In the US, you are required to use position lights at night, but most commercial operators use them anytime the aircraft is operating (some version).

I am sorry, but you cannot see the nav lights more than 50 feet away and is a waste. Yes, I understand about the ground crew alerting, but that's what beacons are for. . .


QUOTE:

c. The FAA has a voluntary pilot safety program, Operation Lights On, to enhance the see-and-avoid concept. Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights during takeoff; i.e., either after takeoff clearance has been received or when beginning takeoff roll. Pilots are further encouraged to turn on their landing lights when operating below 10,000 feet, day or night, especially when operating within 10 miles of any airport, or in conditions of reduced visibility and in areas where flocks of birds may be expected, i.e., coastal areas, lake areas, around refuse dumps, etc. Although turning on aircraft lights does enhance the see-and-avoid concept, pilots should not become complacent about keeping a sharp lookout for other aircraft. Not all aircraft are equipped with lights and some pilots may not have their lights turned on. Aircraft manufacturer's recommendations for operation of landing lights and electrical systems should be observed.

[con-pilot]

The difference between the landing lights and all of the other lights fitted to the aircraft such as wing inspection, strobes, nav lights etc, is that landing lights are powerful enough to be visible from a long way away in the daytime. The rest of them, not so much.

You got it, 100% correct. :ok:

[nitpicker330]

Maybe but at 30,000' with a closing speed of 16 miles a minute I'd reckon it would be amazing if it was the lights you saw first in enough time to avoid the collision in bright daylight. Even at 15 seconds to impact you're still 4 miles away.

Anyway, I'll still have them on:ok:

[Rotorgoat8]

If you're shooting an approach to near or reported minimums at an airport with minimal runway lighting you might want to turn them off so you can see the runway. Kind of like driving in fog with headlights on. You can turn them back on as needed when runway is in sight.

[con-pilot]

If you're shooting an approach to near or reported minimums at an airport with minimal runway lighting you might want to turn them off so you can see the runway. Kind of like driving in fog with headlights on. You can turn them back on as needed when runway is in sight.

To be honest, I've never had that problem. Now, if you are talking about heavy snow at night, yes, leave the lights off until the very last. In fact, there have been a few time landing in very heavy rain at night I've left the lights off until just before touch down.

[Spooky 2]

I believe that the use of landing lights is not recommended during lo viz CATlll operations per any number of operators for obvious reasons.

[Gulfcapt]

In a Gulfstream, landing/pulse lights have an auto function: They are on below 18000' and shut off automatically above that. Nice, except there's no way to override and turn them on above 18000'. :ugh:

Lights off on an approach to mins until runway in sight seems to make it easier to pick up the approach lights.
Best,
GC

[R.Barry]

On the dHC-8, as most other "new" aircraft, we have three sets of external lights: taxi (1), flare (2), and approach (2).

Where we were the only the only aircraft in the area the use of landing lights was only to help us see the runway or to warn the skidoos, etc., to get off the strip. When we got into more congested areas then there were others in the sky to watch out for and to expose ourselves to.

I find that using the lights sequentially works well; both for letting others see me and know what I am intending to do plus helping enhance my memory and as a memory confirmation aid.

For departure:
· Taxi ON anytime on the move on the ground. This is to let all the ground vehicles know I am moving more than to help me see where I am going until I get onto the taxiway which has reflectors as opposed to edge lights. Turned OFF when not moving – e.g. at any hold-short point
· Flare + Taxi ON when cleared to line up. This lets others know when I am on the runway and, at night, allows me to see runway markings so I am more likely to be on my desired runway. Hopefully, it also makes me more visible to the Tower and possibly even to someone on final behind me. Operating the switch helps reinforce in my mind that I have a clearance and that am moving onto an active runway
· (Strobes ON is Std Ops Procedure when on any runway)
· Approach + Flare + Taxi is selected ON with a take-off clearance which again reinforces to myself that I have a clearance plus gives maximum illumination of the runway
· Approach left ON and Flare + Taxi OFF when comfortably established in the climb. The Taxi light reflects back into the cockpit if there is any precipitation or cloud. The Flare light points downward across your line of sight which obscures forward vision plus induces a false horizon enticing one to level the beams – i.e. pull back too hard
· Approach OFF climbing through 10,000’ to save the bulbs plus, in the past, you were now clear of all VFR traffic and so ATC would help identify all conflicts

For arrival:
· Approach ON going through 10,000 where one enters “Indian country” (i.e. Piper aircraft like Cherokee, etc.) in order to enhance ones visibility. Additionally, if you have a single needle altimeter, it reinforces that you are in the final stages of decent (I know, I know – it is too late when going into Quito and other mountainous terrain areas)
· Approach + Flare ON with an approach clearance. Again, moving the switch tends to drive it into my memory bank and, if I am unsure later, I can glance at the switch position. As per Rotorgoat8’s comment - for the times that I am getting splash back from the lights leave the Flare OFF – “you can turn them back on, as needed, when the runway is in sight”. (Those of us that grew up without, or with minimal, runway lights after a non-precision approach dim their cockpit lights so that we can see out the window. Therefore any splash-back is blinding)
· Approach + Flare + Taxi ON with a landing clearance as moving the switch helps reinforce memory plus sets you up with max illumination for the landing and roll out. Again, Approach only until the Flare + Taxi helps vision as opposed to obscuring vision

Following the same procedures night and day helps make it a habit and so I am less likely to get caught being inconsistent and lost.
cheers,
Barry

[autoflight]

Some airlines require nav lights on in daytime, expecting to prevent cold temperatures reducing bulb life.

[rigpiggy]

Recogs thru 10k
Landers cleared to approach
taxi light cleared to land

saved me a violation a number of times

[By George]

Spooky is correct, try a Cat3A with the lights on and see how you go. Also lights on below 10,000 ft in good vis helps with the birds, the little devils can see you comming. Thats the feathered variety, to the young ones.

[aterpster]

flyburg:
I may be wrong but isn't it even a FAR in the states to turn them on below 10.000?
Not an FAR, rather a good operating practice recommended in the FAA's Aeronautical Information Manual:

4-3-23. Use of Aircraft Lights

a. Aircraft position lights are required to be lighted on aircraft operated on the surface and in flight from sunset to sunrise. In addition, aircraft equipped with an anti-collision light system are required to operate that light system during all types of operations (day and night). However, during any adverse meteorological conditions, the pilot-in-command may determine that the anti-collision lights should be turned off when their light output would constitute a hazard to safety (14 CFR Section 91.209). Supplementary strobe lights should be turned off on the ground when they adversely affect ground personnel or other pilots, and in flight when there are adverse reflection from clouds.

b. An aircraft anti-collision light system can use one or more rotating beacons and/or strobe lights, be colored either red or white, and have different (higher than minimum) intensities when compared to other aircraft. Many aircraft have both a rotating beacon and a strobe light system.

c. The FAA has a voluntary pilot safety program, Operation Lights On, to enhance the see-and-avoid concept. Pilots are encouraged to turn on their landing lights during takeoff; i.e., either after takeoff clearance has been received or when beginning takeoff roll. Pilots are further encouraged to turn on their landing lights when operating below 10,000 feet, day or night, especially when operating within 10 miles of any airport, or in conditions of reduced visibility and in areas where flocks of birds may be expected, i.e., coastal areas, lake areas, around refuse dumps, etc. Although turning on aircraft lights does enhance the see-and-avoid concept, pilots should not become complacent about keeping a sharp lookout for other aircraft. Not all aircraft are equipped with lights and some pilots may not have their lights turned on. Aircraft manufacturer’s recommendations for operation of landing lights and electrical systems should be observed.

d. Prop and jet blast forces generated by large aircraft have overturned or damaged several smaller aircraft taxiing behind them. To avoid similar results, and in the interest of preventing upsets and injuries to ground personnel from such forces, the FAA recommends that air carriers and commercial operators turn on their rotating beacons anytime their aircraft engines are in operation. General aviation pilots using rotating beacon equipped aircraft are also encouraged to participate in this program which is designed to alert others to the potential hazard. Since this is a voluntary program, exercise caution and do not rely solely on the rotating beacon as an indication that aircraft engines are in operation.

e. At the discretion of the pilot-in-command turn on all external illumination, including landing lights, when taxiing on, across, or holding in position on any runway. This increases the conspicuity of the aircraft to controllers and other pilots approaching to land, taxiing, or crossing the runway. Pilots should comply with any equipment operating limitations and consider the effects of landing and strobe lights on other aircraft in their vicinity. When cleared for takeoff pilots should turn on any remaining exterior lights.

[hvogt]

As BOAC has already mentioned, there are no regulations specifically demanding landing lights to be switched on when established on the ILS (at least I have never heard of any either).

With respect to SARPS, flashing the landing lights can be an urgency signal, a signal during interceptions or SAR procedures, and a signal to acknowledge light signals from the tower.

Apart from that, ICAO recommend (however not with SARPS or PANS status) to turn landing lights on when take-off or landing clearance is received, and when on approach (4.4.4 of the Manual on the Prevention of Runway Incursions - Doc 9870).

[Green Guard]

A 37575

is one of few talking sense here.
Manipulation with Landing Lights may make you more visible for any
opposite traffic, (how much of that will you have on ILS ?? ).

It is not ONLY opposite traffic that may cause a collision.


on the ILS became the norm in the UK during the 1970s.

I was told that this was to aid conspicuity and also acted as a deterrent to birds flying near the aircraft


For "conspicuity" it may be necessary only for the guy on TWR to identify you and give you "Cleared to Land", while some "wise guys" here would wait for "Cleared to Land" to switch the lights ON ??

as for deterrent to birds strike, it must have been invented by pilots too, birds do not need your lights to see you. They may be even confused by them...