Is the JAA PPL/IR question bank available freely?

[IO540]

I don't mean the ATPL question bank. That one is all over the P2P scene. I am talking about the 7 PPL/IR exams, which AFAIK are extracted from the ATPL question bank.

One can get access to this by paying £1000 to a ground school outfit, which is fair enough because that is (AIUI) the only route for going to Gatwick to sit them, but I would like to see them beforehand.

[S-Works]

Yes. Google Peters software.

[IO540]

Drawn a total blank on this one so far.

[FlyingStone]

Most ATPL question bank providers also provide seperate question banks for ATPL, CPL and IR (A/H). For example in Aviationexam you buy ATPL question bank, but you can choose from the following question banks: ATPL(A), ATPL(H), CPL(A), CPL(H), IR(A) and IR(H). So there is an option to "eliminate" all questions that aren't part of IR(A) question bank, but I think you will still have to pay the full (ATPL) price.

[S-Works]

Peters Software GmbH (http://www.peterssoftware.de/ger/index.html)

Peters Software has the entire IR specific question bank as well as the CPL and ATPL. When I did my IR I used this software and sat and revised in the atrium at Gatwick on my laptop, when I went in and did the exams the questions were all identical.

The materials were originally in German when I did them several years ago but the actual questions as they were direct from the JAA question bank were in English! Now I think the software is English as well.

[IO540]

So there is an option to "eliminate" all questions that aren't part of IR(A) question bank, but I think you will still have to pay the full (ATPL) price.

As I mentioned earlier I can get the ATPL question bank - for free. It is sorting out the questions that apply to the PPL version. Peters software don't list anything I can see and don't reply to emails.

[S-Works]

Peters Software GmbH / EXAM IR(A) (http://www.peterssoftware.de/eng/products/details/exam_ir_a.html)

Follow this link. It is Exam 11 IR that you want.

[IO540]

Is it legally possible, in the UK, to self study and just book the exams at LGW, or does one have to go through a ground school company?

That link lists 8 exams for what appears to be 84 euros, but there are 7 in reality.

[S-Works]

Unfortunately not. All training for the IR must be through an approved provider. Only the Head of Training can sign the exam application forms to say you have met the prescribed training requirements. This generally involves handing over a wad of cash for over priced materials and attending the ground school as required.

I have known situations where people have been given a complete set of manuals and still had to buy them again from the providers......

Somewhere like CATS does everything online now and then charges another £600 or so if you want printed manuals.

Some of the exam subjects are combined which is why it shows more subjects than exams.....

[Ultranomad]

Yes, the training has to be through an approved FTO.
Another source of exam materials is www.aviationexam.com - you can buy access to virtual exams for 2, 6 and 12 months. Brief explanations are provided for every question. As far as I know, there is no IR-specific subset of questions for each subject, you just sit fewer subjects. On the other hand, each EU country seems to have its own subset of the entire CQB, at least for the exams in the local language. For example, the list of ATPL questions in Czech leaked from the Czech CAA is a lot shorter than the CQB.

[IO540]

143 euros for all 14...

The questions are a subset e.g. all jet-related questions are supposed to have been removed. This is why I am after the PPL/IR question bank.

Anyway, heard some good news today... none of this is likely to be relevant :ok:

[englishal]

do tell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LH2]

For example, the list of ATPL questions in Czech leaked from the Czech CAA is a lot shorter than the CQB.

When I sat my ATPLs I was told a (probably apocryphal) story about the early days of the JAR.

As the story went, in the months after the JARs were put in place, ATPL results in Spain started to improve considerably sitting after sitting. Soon enough, foreigners without any knowledge of Spanish were flocking in and getting 100% marks. At some point the JAA decided to investigate and found out that the Spaniards, in all their pragmatism, had translated exactly enough questions for one paper on each subject. :)

My Spanish friends deny any knowledge of such a story, but say it wouldn't surprise them. :p

[421C]

I would be a bit cautious about European question software. I think there was an amendment to JAR-FCL on the IR syllabus and question bank a couple of years ago that has not been implemented in the UK. I may be totally wrong, but it might be worth checking.

For the IR, in my experience, the UK TK schools question banks are the best, or a least the most condensed. The school I used had a question bank less than half the size of the software QB I bought (Dauntless). It was better because you had a much more manageable volume of questions to practice, and I found the small question base absolutely appropriate preparation for the exams.

brgds
421C

[Ultranomad]

I have just gone through my first two 14-exam ATPL marathons (these two were for ground school graduation - one series on Internet, then one on paper, then there will be another one at the CAA). From my own impression, going over the entire question bank one by one is almost pointless. In most of these 14 disciplines, I sat a test on aviationexam.com before reading anything, just using what had precipitated in my memory by itself, or what could possibly be deduced from the well-known basics of physics and trigonometry, or what could be concluded through a formal logic analysis. As it turned out, with this "pure reason" alone, a 60-65% score is almost assured, the pass mark being 75%. So, the second iteration is checking the basic rules and laws of the given discipline. This usually gives you about 80% total. Only rarely does it make sense to check individual questions - such questions are mostly products of JAA's/EASA's infinite wisdom, but they are few. So, if you are on a first-name basis with physics, trigonometry, etc., don't worry much about question banks. I occasionally checked the old question banks from 2001 or 2002 against the 2010 version on aviationexam. They are almost the same - that is, if you know the answers to the old one by heart, you won't fail the new test, either.
As a dessert, my favourite problem, concocted by us from one of the exam problems during a tea/coffee break: You are flying from Edinburgh to Reykjavik at FL180, about halfway. The navigation system of your aircraft shows a right drift. You are flying a photo reconnaisance aircraft, and so have a high-altitude radio altimeter on your dashboard! Are its reading changing with time? If so, how? Let's not spoil the pleasure of thinking over it until tomorrow :-)

[LH2]

I sat a test on aviationexam.com before reading anything, just using what had precipitated in my memory by itself, or what could possibly be deduced from the well-known basics of physics and trigonometry, or what could be concluded through a formal logic analysis. As it turned out, with this "pure reason" alone, a 60-65% score is almost assured, the pass mark being 75%. So, the second iteration is checking the basic rules and laws of the given discipline. This usually gives you about 80% total. Only rarely does it make sense to check individual questions - such questions are mostly products of JAA's/EASA's infinite wisdom, but they are few.

That's a correct assessment. Still, it makes things easier to be familiar with the questions--either it will save you time, or it will stop you from ticking the wrong box: i.e., the one that corresponds to the factually correct answer, but for whatever reason it's not the one they expect. Also the meaning of quite a few of the questions has been lost in the various rounds of translation, so it just makes life easier if you know you have to go for answer "C".


You are flying from Edinburgh to Reykjavik at FL180, about halfway. The navigation system of your aircraft shows a right drift. You are flying a photo reconnaisance aircraft, and so have a high-altitude radio altimeter on your dashboard! Are its reading changing with time? If so, how? Let's not spoil the pleasure of thinking over it until tomorrow :-)

Yup, you are descending. And it would have been less wordy and closer to home for most pilots if they had replaced the radio alt with a GPS, which would have shown the same tendency.

(Question: right drift means wind/current force from the left, correct? I always get left/right mixed up :bored:)

[Ultranomad]

And it would have been less wordy and closer to home for most pilots if they had replaced the radio alt with a GPS, which would have shown the same tendency.
Absolutely right. The phrase about radio altimeter is in fact the confuser part of the question - one former FI instantly responded that the aircraft is drifting without bank, so the radio altitude won't change :-)

[IO540]

You are flying from Edinburgh to Reykjavik at FL180, about halfway. The navigation system of your aircraft shows a right drift. You are flying a photo reconnaisance aircraft, and so have a high-altitude radio altimeter on your dashboard! Are its reading changing with time? If so, how? Let's not spoil the pleasure of thinking over it until tomorrow :-)I don't get this because it is ambiguous.

But one assumption might be that it is something to do with flying with wind from the left, therefore you are flying towards the centre of a low pressure, so you will be descending in terms of true altitude.

But the reason for the right drift could be something unrelated. Any half modern plane flying Edinburgh to Reykjavikwill be sitting on autopilot, tracking a GPS route, so there won't be any drift. Nobody will be flying seriously on dead reckoning these days.

Or, the "right drift" expression might mean that your heading is to the right of your GPS track, which means the wind is from the right, which suggests you are flying towards the centre of a high pressure, so you will be climbing.

right drift means wind/current force from the left, correct?

Yes but only if you are flying in the HDG mode. In NAV mode (tracking any kind of lateral guidance source) there won't be any "drift".

It's all artificial bollox, irrelevant to modern aviation.

And it would have been less wordy and closer to home for most pilots if they had replaced the radio alt with a GPSYes, a GPS will give you a more accurate true altitude than anything else you can carry in a plane (a proper IFR GPS, or a decent handheld like a G496, will have it corrected to true AMSL) but GPS altitude doesn't officially exist ;)

[24Carrot]

Actually 'right drift' literally means your track is to the right of your heading, so the right drift will still be there even on the NAV setting. The autopilot will be 'heading off' to the left to stay on the VOR radial, or whatever track you are following.

So if you stay on FL180 you will be descending, as the question expects. Unless the air beneath you gets warmer as you head toward Reykjavik...

And if that were the least useful fact required for JAA IR TK, I would be a very much happier bunny.

[IO540]

Actually 'right drift' literally means your track is to the right of your heading,

Wind from the left means your heading will be a lower numeric figure than your track.

Saying the track is "to the right" of your heading is pretty confusing :)

so the right drift will still be there even on the NAV setting.

Depends on how good your autopilot is in integrating the error :)

Mine will get within about 100m of the GPS track, in almost any wind, eventually.

It's a deliberately confusing question.

And your correct statement about the air getting warmer just makes it impossible to answer correctly.

[LH2]

I don't get this because it is ambiguous.

Well, see? That's why you memorise the whole lot and get over it. :)

But one assumption might be that it is something to do with flying with wind from the left, therefore you are flying towards the centre of a low pressure, so you will be descending in terms of true altitude.

Yes, that's what they're after (not a listing plane as suggested above, unless that was one of the choices in the paper :ok:)

Or, the "right drift" expression might mean that your heading is to the right of your GPS track,

No, it means that your craft is being pushed that way, as Mr. Two Dozen Carrots has pointed out before me. Standard navigation terminology.

It's a deliberately confusing question.

They're meant to be. After all it is a multiple choice with only four possible answers.

And your correct statement about the air getting warmer just makes it impossible to answer correctly.

They've got it all figured out. That's why they ask you to go for the "most probable" answer. :bored:

If you find this hard... think you could be taking the Chinese (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/262104-chinese-written-test-3.html#post5537453) ATPLs instead (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/262104-chinese-written-test.html#post3199567).

[tmmorris]

Interesting. I looked at the CATS demo and tried some of the Human Performance questions - there are 636 of them. I got to about 20 before I got one wrong - without any IR training at all (just a crappy old PPL/IMCR...)

I guess there might be more to it - but seven subjects each requiring 2 months' study? You're having a laugh. I did the entire PPL including all seven exams in three and a half weeks full time. I reckon (funding aside) that I could do the 7 IR exams in 14 months on one evening a week.

Tim

[IO540]

The human performance exam should be easy.

I think any competent pilot should pass maybe 3/4 out of the 7 exams straight off.

It is stuff like the Met one which are hugely time consuming.

Nevertheless I think a good strategy would be to sit them all (over 2 days is the quickest way possible) and then revise properly for those you failed.

[24Carrot]

but seven subjects each requiring 2 months' study?CATS suggest a notional 6 months for 7 subjects. There are exam sessions at Gatwick every 2 months, which reduces the flexibility.

I did the entire PPL including all seven exams...The IR exams are harder, I think, than the PPL exams. IMHO a lot of it is useful, but they are also full of memory stuff that fits in well with multiple choice answers, but is of little use outside the exam room. Why, for example, do I need to know the minimum lateral separations a Radar Controller can give me? I can't see his screen, nor am I controlling his traffic. And the code letters for the width of taxiways?:rolleyes:

Nevertheless I think a good strategy would be to sit them all (over 2 days is the quickest way possible) and then revise properly for those you failed. Probably a good idea, though the training organisation has to sign off on the exam application. I believe you are supposed to spend a certain minimum number of hours studying, and they might smell a rat if the hours do not fit into the calendar time available!

And finally, IO540, your magenta line might well be within 100m of track and pointing in the right direction, but even on NAV the autopilot achieves that by pointing your aircraft to the left of track, into wind, to compensate for the right drift. You are still drifting to the right of your heading, but your combined flying through the air and drifting with it is towards your destination!:) But I know you know that, so this is just semantics, right?:ok:

[421C]

I think any competent pilot should pass maybe 3/4 out of the 7 exams straight off No way. IFR Coms yes, flight planning maybe, no chance for any of the others for "any competent pilot", maybe someone with a super in-depth interest in an exam topic might have a chance.



Nevertheless I think a good strategy would be to sit them all (over 2 days is the quickest way possible) and then revise properly for those you failed


We always disagree on this point. I think that would be a silly strategy. You don't need to go to Gatwick to see which exams you are going to pass. The various progress tests and software will give you a very good indication. So you might as well study for the ones you are likely to fail.

Carrot24 is right. A school is not there to rubber-stamp whatever you want to do. The study you undertake is at the discretion of the school's Head of Training if you are doing an FAA>JAA IR conversion. In practice, if you have a sensible approach to self-study, then I think they are likely to let you sit the exams at your own discretion. I don't think any would support a strategy of just turning up to see how you do having done no study.

brgds
421C

[IO540]

I was writing in the context of FAA IR to JAA IR conversion.

In the UK (UK only, as far as I can tell) this process does not have the mandatory ground school.

Ab Initio IR is totally different; you are dealing with a pilot who usually has zilch IFR knowledge and more to the point has had zilch exposure to the subject theory.

In this context, you don't get much preparation as such. You spend a day at a ground school establishment which for approx £1000 spends some hours going over the stuff and then sends you to LGW to sit the exams.

I imagine they check out roughly how much you know, but in the end how much you actually self study is up to you.

The downside of my suggested approach is that the hardest bit will be the hardest one of the seven exams (obviously) and if you failed that one exam 3 times, you have to re-sit all seven :) This is at best a waste of money, at £65 each, but it also takes time due to the exam timetable. So some swatting from the question bank would be well advised - which is why I started this thread in the first place.

However I stand by my assertion that some of the exams are very easy and some are very hard.

[S-Works]

None of the exams are hard, they just need an understanding of the subject. For an experiences IR pilot they should not be an issue to convert.

Most people I know have done them in 2 months over 2 sittings without problems.

[421C]

I was writing in the context of FAA IR to JAA IR conversion
So was I.



In the UK (UK only, as far as I can tell) this process does not have the mandatory ground school
That's why I wrote "The study you undertake is at the discretion of the school's Head of Training if you are doing an FAA>JAA IR conversion...." in the context of a conversion. If it's ab initio, there is an approved course which includes specific exercises to be completed, specific hours of self-study and specific hours of classroom attendance.


None of the exams are hard, they just need an understanding of the subject. For an experiences IR pilot they should not be an issue to convert.I agree, but saying they are not "hard" is not the same as saying a sensible strategy is to just 'have a go' with no study. Even a few hours skimming the study notes and running through the past papers would make a vast difference. The person who I know who did the conversion fastest was a 200-300hr FAA IR who did about 45hrs study to get (IIRC) just over 90% as first time passes in one sitting for all seven papers. Perhaps someone like that would have passed with 50-70% of that study. But no study? No way. A total waste of time for all but the IFR Coms. Flight Planning is quite straightforward for the experienced pilot, but you'd still be crazy not to study for a few hours. HPL is not a hard paper, but there is a lot of material. Big swathes of it are fairly straighforward (perhaps that's were the CATS demo samples come from), but a fair amount isn't. The HPL paper has a relatively low number of questions, so you can't get many wrong to get 75% or more.

There are some articles on the PPL/IR website open to the public (I think) which cover all this:
Here: http://www.pplir.org/images/stories/pplir_files/jaa%20ir%20tk%20v1.1.pdf
and here: PPL/IR Europe - Getting a JAA/IR - Personal Practical Experience (http://www.pplir.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=471)

[IO540]

With a bit of luck all this will be moot anyway :ok:

The agreements reached (and proposals published) thus far can hardly be tightened in either scope or timescale. But they can be loosened and it appears certain, as of 2-3 days ago, that nothing will happen to the N-reg community before 2015.

So anybody sitting the JAA exams now on a "just in case" basis is a fool because they will expire well before 2015. You have to be intending to do the whole lot - flying and all.

Considering how much enjoyment I've had from my FAA IR since getting it in 2006, 5 more years is plenty of time to ponder about this, and there will be loads of changes c. 2012 anyway.

There was going to be a transitional period after 2012 anyway (varying according to national CAA arrangements) and there is bound to be a similar transitional period after the new 2014 date, so we may be looking at 2016-2017 before somebody who does absolutely nothing is actually grounded. And even then, many private N-reg pilots will be able to fly IFR with a JAA IR in the RHS, or by filing Z flight plans, etc.

I now feel more strongly than ever that doing the JAA IR now is a waste of time - unless you enjoy doing this kind of stuff for the fun of it.

[S-Works]

I now feel more strongly than ever that doing the JAA IR now is a waste of time - unless you enjoy doing this kind of stuff for the fun of it.

You just keep convincing yourself....... ;);)

[Fuji Abound]

You just keep convincing yourself.......


but why wouldnt you?

A whole lot can happen in 4 or 5 years. You might lose your medical in that time or get fed up with flying for other reasons.

As others have said the exams arent that much of a problem and if in four or five or six years time they have to be done so be it, and if things turn out differently then you will have saved yourself a pot of money and a certain amount of hassle.

More to the point just think of the "fun" we would all miss out on in the mean time (and please dont take that as an entirely serious remark).

In my experience with these sort of things it is usually a mistake to rush into things. Buy a new eco friendly green car with a £5K subsidy from the government might seem a good idea now, in two years time it will cost half that without the subsidy.

I recall Bose telling us the IMCr would be dead in the water (and was there something about eating his fuel filter) - well at the moment it is still not dead in the water. Who knows where it will go but making predictions in this game is a very dangerous business indeed except you will almost certainly find 75% of the people here today will not be here in four years time so you do have a get out of jail free card. :)

[S-Works]

I still stand by the view the IMCr is dead in the water.........

[lasseb]

To my knowledge there is no such thing as a PPL/IR question bank.
There is an IR question bank, which is a sub-set of the ATPL questions.
The IR theory does not distinguish between PPL or CPL.

All the major question banks provide the IR exam subset.
(aviation-exam, jaaqb.com, bristol.gs, pilotexam etc... use google)