PPL and Insurance

[AOB9]

I did a search on the forums on this subject to no avail.

I am currently undergoing PPL training and not flying solo yet. I'm wondering what needs to change in terms of Insurance policies going forward. The two main policies I have are Life insurance ( which doesn't cover DANGEROUS activities eg flying) and mortgage protection which I haven't looked into yet. Does anyone know how much extra costs are involved in insuring DANGEROUS activities?

For the foreseeable future I will only be flying club aircraft either under instruction or on hire so I'm not querying insurance cover on my own LA just yet.

I don't like insurance companies. I have close experience of a company wiggling out of paying up a policy. The result was severe hardship for the policy holder. I therefore make a point of telling them everything I feel is relevant to maintaining proper cover. Otherwise IMO insurance is a total waste of money.

[IanPZ]

AOB,

Not sure if its any help, but I'm learning too and had exactly the same questions. I spoke to both my mortgage endowment and life insurances (Legal and General, and Scottish Prov respectively).

The mortgage people confirmed that there were no exceptions with regard to hobby flying, which they classed as anything unrewarded financially, and under 100 hours per year. Scot Prov said they also had no problem under the same terms, and are writing to confirm it, as their terms and exceptions are slightly more vague.

From what I understand, most insurance companies allow flying as a hobby, as long as its less that a certain number of hours, and at worst, put a slight premium on to allow for it.

Hope that's of use. IPZ

[Cusco]

When I took up flying 17 years ago I had pretty heavy financial commitments, school fees, mortgage etc so I rang up all the companies my life was insured with and they all said that as I wasn't, and hadn't anticipated. learning to fly when the policies were taken out many years before, I was fully covered and they assumed the risk.

However, all new policies I took out since learning to fly added a premium for flying.

So I have a travel policy with Traffords and an 'all risk H24' accident insurance with Besso, both of which cover G A flying.

Most of the original policies which were term policies to cover the heavy years have now run their course.

So: ring your insurance companies, tell them you hadn't intended to fly when you originally took out the policies and see what they say.#
If they do agree to continue cover with no additional premium ask them to confirm it in writing.

Cusco

[Trinity 09L]

I have been a PPL for 13 years. My insurer - formerly known as a east anglian place :sad: - had no issues, either with hours or age.
Please consider term insurance as opposed to endowment etc, much cheaper, all insurance is a bet in their favour. :*

[AOB9]

Thanks for the info. Will start making calls. BTW, does Flight School insurance cover a students life while he's under instruction? I know I should have asked them this question already, I will next day.

I know this is a bit depressing but I'd prefer to get this stuff out of the way early and then concentrate on the fun bit.

[Trinity 09L]

Flight school insurance would not cover all your financial needs, it would be limited, and also who was responsible etc - the instructor,the solo ppl, or mechanical issue. Add up all your liabilities + 50%, that is the amount of cover you need - at least.:ok:

[IanPZ]

Interesting question about flight school. My instructor is speaking to his company about exactly that...in the event that he is teaching me, but I am in the left hand seat, if something happened, who was actually flying? If it was me, then does the insurance cover it?

From my point of view, life and house insurances covered, and wont be much left of me to worry about anyway!

The interesting thing he pointed out was that most car insurances, even comprehensive, don't necessarily cover injury to the driver. Ever thought about that?

[Cusco]

I second the notion of term life insurance, (having just fallen foul of a dodgy endowment life policy which fell outside the endowment false selling legislation and lost a five figure sum): it's cheap and cheerful to get you through the early years of kids/mortgage etc.

But don't forget it covers death only:

Consider the effect that serious injury either taking you off work for , say 6 months, or leaving you permanently disabled and unable to work, might have on your income and make provision for that too.

Cusco

[aerohopper]

Any existing life cover ( level term or decreasing term assurance) WILL almost certainly cover you for aviation risk provided. (1) You declared you were flying ..if you were...when you completed the application. or (2) You weren't flying..or imminently starting.

In the case of (1) some insurers will load the premium. This depends on hours experience , hours flown p.a. and types flown.

There are some weird anomalies. I have had ATPL's with 14000 hours on big jets where some insurers want to load for flying 50hs per annum recreationally in a piper.... I have also had NPPL(m) students or parasailers where some providers are quire happy to accept at standard rates to 75hs or beyond p.a..

'On topic' ,we can secure standard rates for the vast majority of JAR PPL/ NPPL students.

It really is a horses for courses game.

Income protection can be trickier as most providers seem to take the view that disablement / injury is more of a risk than death if you prang in. I dont have the stats so can't comment on how accurate that assumption is .

Even with income protection its often possible to secure standard rates though.

Serious illness / critical illness protection often comes as a package with term assurance. As a general rule , if the life cover isn't loaded then you'll be covered for aviation related claims within the plan. However , if the premium is loaded then the reverse is true. There are some exceptions though.

I would add that the info above is based on underwriting positions adopted by insurers operating in the UK market ..(my market)...- Things could be different in ROI / near Europe etc..

I think forum protocol is such that mentioning my company here is inappropriate but google the product type you want and add 'for pilots' and I'm sure you'll find us.- alternatively pm me - be glad to help..... Russ

[Miroku]

Might your employer offer life and/or medical insurance? Mine did until someone found out I was flying and then I was told the insurance wouldn't cover that.

Just a thought............

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that you do need to shop around.

I have life insurance with CIS, and their rep was great - he shopped through the various conditions of different types of policy for me until we found the combination that gave my wife the cover she thought I should have, with the premium that I thought I should be paying. The differences were substantial and it was very necessary to shop around quite a lot.

This is where an insurance agent / rep can really earn their money for you.


In my experience companies will normally have some kind of "aviation activities questionnaire" that covers most potential activities, and will take into account the general pattern of your flying. It tends not to be a one-size-fits-all.

G

[Trinity 09L]

Good point about company (for employee) insurance, or death in service in lieu of pension payment (for a single person). All insurers will argue to avoid paying out :=

It appears more risky to get insurance than flying:confused: