SERCO Baghdad

[Sam Asama]

Anybody have info on the ToC's for Serco's new ATC contract in Iraq?

[Short Approach?]

8 weeks on two weeks off. 180$. Remember vest outside the base.

[Guy D'ageradar]

I think I'll stay put!

[warsteiner888]

$180 means what exactly ?

Are they after ex mil or civil controllers for the jobs ?

[Red Dragon]

Watsa matter Guy? No sense of adventure?

;)

[BeT]

$180k pa?

Unbelievable! They need to at least double that IMO - unless they are planning on recruiting from places where controllers are usually paid in nuts or something:eek:

[Sam Asama]

Well.... if it's tax free, and if accommodation and meals are supplied, and if the rotation is good.. then it's not bad.

If you've worked as an "ex-pat" ATCO you know that the above are what make or break any particular contract.

And if you think $250K in Europe, North America, Oz, etc is better than $180K tax free (with accommodation), you need to study accounting...

Sam

[Surferboy]

Unless you are employed by Eurocontrol and you pay virtually no tax! (Ok, you do pay a tiny bit..but that's just peanuts if you compare with any other European ANSP)

[Cuddles]

It's better if you don't get shot at / blown up.

[ferris]

And if you think $250K in Europe, North America, Oz, etc is better than $180K tax free (with accommodation), you need to study accounting... And if YOU think that $180k in IRAQis better than $250k in ANY of the other places you mention (even with taxes), you need to get your head out of the accounting books and take a look around. Need to be a lot more dollars involved.
Plus all the other things you mention (roster etc.) are ****e.

[BeT]

@sam asama:

If you think $180k tax free in Iraq is better than $250k with taxes somewhere else in the world then you need to take your head out of the accounting books and join the rest of us over here in the real world!

I would fully expect food and lodgings on that Serco contract - but that will be crappy food in the 'Green Zone' hmmmm sounds luxurious!

$180k US p.a. tax free = €134,000 (approx).

Im two year qualified in a N. Europran area control centre and take around €85,000 NET per annum (or $113,000 US) - many of my more senior colleagues who have family and marriage allowances and are further up the pay scale DO take around the $180k pa mark.

IMO, I just cant see Westerners giving up everything and moving to Iraq for either a slightly higher (or maybe even equivalent) salary - the general consensus in our OPS room when this package was discussed was that Serco dont have a chance in hell with guys like us - BTW I appreciate fully that they may be happy to recruit from quieter centres around SE Asia etc where this package probably compare well.

Aside from all that the roster as posted above is absolute crap.

To get me, or an equivalent controller in to this job they need to be offering something along the lines of:

-$400k + pa tax free with free food and shelter
-6 months on, 3 months off (or better)
-Protection within the green zone.

Baghdad for $180k p.a - not in my lifetime!:}

[Out on the catwalk]

Short Approach reports:

"8 weeks on two weeks off. 180$. Remember vest outside the base."

Mind if I ask where this info came from? To my knowledge, Serco hasn't even advertised this outside of the company.

I ask this because I've heard more than one salary figure being bandied about - the same with the leave entitlement as well.

I'm just looking for something definitive, that's all.

[Frunobulax]

Oh yes they did:

Air Traffic Control Officer - 1401045026 - Flight Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/air-traffic-control-officer-iraq-1401045026.htm)

[Out on the catwalk]

Thanks for that – I check Flightglobal fairly regularly, but perhaps not as regularly as I should.

I was specifically asking about Short Approaches statement of the salary and leave entitlement, and where those came from – did they come from a reliable source, or was it coming from a friend of a friend of someones nephew . . . ?

As I said, I’ve heard more than one salary bandied about, and am just looking for something definitive (if that’s possible).

[Green on, Go!]

Worked there in 2003 for approx AUD $150K tax free (food, uniform, accommodation, medical, kevlar, automatic weapon and ammunition included). One of the area radar consoles was my bedside table. :ok:

Granted, things have probably changed a lot since then, however, I would want substantially more than $180K tax free to work there again. Night life was a shocker.:sad:

[eurocat2000]

Does anyone have any current information on living conditions and facilities within the Airport compound?

[charly-viktor]

Beg me pardon guys, but didn't Mr. Obama say they are retrieving ALL troops till the end of 2011? The offered contract is for one year starting with April 2011. I don't think it is very funny to stay behind when coalition forces are gone! :=

[Fox3snapshot]

CV

Mr. Obama say they are retrieving ALL troops

Ummm....is that just American troops? The coalition isn't just the US (although they often think so!) and never convinced the Obama and US circus is ever talking about the rest of the world, after all we have been left behind before...as we were in Somalia!

Just wondered... :rolleyes:

[charly-viktor]

Well, the main forces are American, British and Polish. I don't think that the others will stay behind wenn Uncle Sam is leaving to face the upcomming mess. And i don't think it is good for health to sit on Bagdhad tower like a turky at thanksgiving surrounded only by iraki troops.

[hotspot1]

news around the centre today is that Serco is having trouble filling the Area positions originally advertised and obviously the APP positions now coming up in April.

additionally it was rumoured that a salary of 170,000 GBP was quoted, which equates to around $257,000 AUD, but not sure if that is all up including the travel allowance they pay every time you go on your 2 week R&R, which appears to be about every 8 weeks or so.

accommodation within the airport perimeter could be dodgy and possibly similiar to the accommodation in the Kabul Airport military zone... 2 in a pseudo container.

anyone with further information to be able to clarify these and other items and who have had recent contact with Serco, it would be appreciated if some items could be clarified please, including the roster.

you can PM me if you like.

cheers

hotspot:ok:

[JayeRipley]

Hotspot....I have the info you require but can't seem to pm you. Perhaps you could pm me and I'll send a reply..... Jaye

[aldegar]

why don't you just put it on here for all to see ......then I can tell you if your right or not!!

If you know it, why don't you just tell us?

[EIEIO]

Hi, could someone either post or Pm me with the package details for area Baghdad, lots of rumours! Thanks

[EIEIO]

Thanks for that, IMHO that's very disappointing in just about every way, but it seems to suit some. Hope my buddies out there will be safe.

[JayeRipley]

BaghdadKiwi,

I didn't post the details because I thought PPRUNE'rs liked salary details etc communicated via PM.

The details I have are the same as you published - I'm due to start soon so the info is current.

You enjoy the work out there?

Cheers!

[BeT]

f@CK me,

You must be mad - are you sure a lobotomy wasn't on the pre-requisite qualification list too??:}

200kish for Baghdad - I bet Serco cant believe their luck!

[divingduck]

I don't usually respond to trolls, but in your case I shall make an exception.:ugh:
You sir, are an idiot...or to be slightly kinder, just young and inexperienced.

You have the good fortune to be employed in Eurocontrol...petty much the cushiest number in world aviation.
To abuse people who, for reasons totally unknown to you, have decided to work in Baghdad, is simply puerile.
If you have been knocked back for the job because you lack experience and you are bitter, then get over it.
If you don't want to work there, why post on the thread at all? Seriously, why?
I would hazard a guess and say that the vast majority of controllers in Baghdad are VASTLY more experienced than you are, and have worked more traffic than you ever will if you work until you are 70 in your present location.
If you think I am disparaging the Euro zone traffic count, think SoCal, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, UAE...think about that for a moment or two. Then go and sit in the corner and be quiet whilst the adults discuss matters.

End of rant. I feel better now....:E

[ISaidRightTurns]

...think SoCal, Washington, Atlanta, Chicago, UAE...

One of these things is not like the others,
one of these things just isn't sane.

UAE on par with ATL or ORD. I needed a good joke :)

ISRT - out

[Vercingetorix]

diver, me ole mate
$200000 per annum doesn't seem a lot when you consider that UAE ATC supervisors get approximately the same remuneration.
However, to be fair, in the UAE you do have to pay your own rent but then you don't have to wear a flak jacket and the UAE life style is a tad more enjoyable.

ISaidRightTurns is correct when he says: "UAE on par with ATL or ORD. I needed a good joke:)"

EINN to ORBI. A big jump!

Best of luck:ok:

[ISaidRightTurns]

...ISaidRightTurns is correct...

ALAS! VICTORY IS MINE!!!

[divingduck]

work out traffic count divided by number of controllers...then come back to me ;) And you were right...SoCal is an approach unit ;) One of those things wasn't like the others:E

Verci....actually it has been a jump from cold and wet to....you guessed it, cold and wet!
As a supe though...you are much less likely to get fired here.

[Vercingetorix]

Hi Duck
the last published figures for the UAE ACC are for May 2010 and show a daily average movement figure of approx 1750 per day, i.e. 638750 per annum max.

Last time I spoke with the ex head of the New York Tracon he mentioned that they had been handling 2.4 million movements per annum while the London TMA had been handling 1.2 million movements per annum.

Wet and cold = ideal conditions for a pint of Guinness.;)

Re fired meaning to lose one's job as opposed to being fired (at)!, I would agree with you there.

Keep the head down and good luck.

Cheers:ok:

[Quokka]

Workload and Movements are related but two distinctly different measurements.

Give a controller a RADAR longitudinal separation standard of 40NM and a 2000FT vertical separation standard (not approved for RVSM) and adjacent FIRs who don't like you and therefore won't talk to you let-alone help you, coupled with equipment that is less-than-reliable... and then you'll understand the workload comparison. It has little to do with Total Movements.

Balad ACC does not have the "luxury" of Air Traffic Control that controllers in the West take for granted.

[Vercingetorix]

Quokka

Nail, hammer, hit.:ok:

[Mike_Retired_ATC]

I interviewed for the approach/tower positions and was told that the salary is $170,000 US, rotation was 10 weeks on with 2 off with travel bonus, and that you would live on the airport somewhere.

Compare this with my last contract in Afghanistan where we were rocketed or mortared weekly, Bagdad would be almost like a vacation spot, so I know if I receive an offer I'll accept.

[divingduck]

Ask your mate how many staff London and NY have would you? From my memories of UAE...we didn't have too many lying around, and a dozen of them were in the training school :)

[Vercingetorix]

Check your PMs.:eek:

[FoxtrotUniform]

Last Serco Baghdad advertisement has disappeared from flightglobal, apparently the offered contract has been good enough.

[throw a dyce]

Still on Canso with Real Time Consultants.

[Mike_Retired_ATC]

The last I heard was that Serco was looking for controllers for the Bagdad contract that were current in Radar Approach which eliminated me since I hadn't worked approach in the past year, I've been tower only since I retired.

[LXGB]

Serco are hiring controllers for Iraq again.

Looks like a cut and paste of the job description from last year.

Advert on flight global website here. (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/air-traffic-control-officer-iraq-1401220855.htm)

[vectoraround]

hi guys
can any one tell me how serco hires
all i feel is that they only hire uk or white guys
is it true?

[Late Landing]

I smell a conspiracy theory / hard done by / woe is me attitude here. Get over yourself.

[Chilli Monster]

Vectoraround - if you have the experience (and that really counts!) and the customer approves you then you're in. Many people forget it's not just whether Serco want you but if the ICAA like the look of you.

And the UK contingent is only the 4th largest here with 4 ATCO's.

[CYAFAA]

Is my old co-worker George, DEAD END, Rhodes still working over there?

[Chilli Monster]

George is still here.

[LXGB]

The original job advert has been pulled. An updated listing with more info is now on the Flightglobal website.

Direct link here. (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/air-traffic-control-officer-iraq-1401241971.htm)

[NewScot]

Does anybody have any pictures of the place. Accommodation / facilities etc. Would like to get a feel for the place. Is it a 6 on 4 off roster yet? Thanks.

[Blockla]

Search for "The NEW Baghdad Hilton" on youtube...

[SnakeKiru]

The Acomodation is perfect. Good food, clean rooms, Base is between the 2 runways a little closer to the military one ( the shorter one) Security is excelent. All rooms (90) have AC, Microwave, satelite tv,one big bed. They have a big Gym fitted well, laundry twice a week, a tv room, and a big dinning room. 2 months ago they started to built a pool and a basketball court. Not finished yet. The base is owned by ...AL BURHAN GROUP. I came back home one month ago. Not worth the mony. Too RISKY! The radar dropped twice in a week . Frequencies... a joke. Procedures...some... If u look in Iraqs AIP u will see 5 NM all around. WRONG. It`s 20 NM.
The fact that made me return home were the working conditions. The ACC and APP are in the same room. They have 2 ACC sectors and 2 APP sectors in that room and another APP in another room. You will freze to death while on radar because they keep 3 AC units each of 18000BTU on full. After 2 hours your feet are numb. The program should have been...2 day shifts,2 Evening,2 Mids,1 Sleep day,3 days off. It`s not. Only 1 day off. I worked 10 weeks and 2 weeks off.

Almost 70% of the controllers are American. The other 30% ...Islanders, New Zeelanders,Australians, South Africans, Spanish, British, Romanian, Macedonian,Panama.

Most of them if not all are retired. This is not a permanent job. 4 maby 6 months. After that..u r done.

The NEW Baghdad Hilton - YouTube

[CYAFAA]

I've been thinking about sending in an application. How long were you over there and how long did it take you to qualify?

[baghdadkiwi]

hey "C"...glad you made it home okay..as a retired.....correction....Resigned ATCO I feel justified in rebutting some of your points

The Acomodation is perfect. Good food, clean rooms

yea mostly, food is always about chicken...chicken for lunch, chicken for dinner day after day after day after day after day...well you get my point.

yea the accomodation is good, but then it hasn't rained yet (for about 6 months) judging by the amount of sand I get in my room when the wind is blowing I'm thinking....flood...having said that you are correct, we have the rooms serviced every day of the week, they are comfortable, room to swing a cat, and an ensuite. I, probably like the others, like my room and I make it my home away from home.

All rooms (90) have AC, Microwave, satelite tv,one big bed. They have a big Gym fitted well, laundry twice a week, a tv room, and a big dinning room. 2 months ago they started to built a pool and a basketball court. Not finished yet.
Correct...and don't forget the Bar........

The base is owned by ...AL BURHAN GROUP

Correct

Security is excelent

Room for inprovement as was highlighted the other day

The radar dropped twice in a week

Only twice???

Frequencies... a joke. Procedures...some..

yes and no....when the fibre network is working its fine.....when it gets shut down and your using VSAT its ****....procedures....yes possibly right ..there are many in place at present and it 'seems' to work

If u look in Iraqs AIP u will see 5 NM all around. WRONG. It`s 20 NM.

I think your getting confused with LOA's .....separation in Iraq airspace is as per ICAO DOC 4444 and the ..rest of the world..5NM and 1000ft. The LOA'S however between Iraq and the 'other' countries bordering this place insist on 20nm between 2 aircraft same level. So, in conclusion everything coming into Iraq at the same level is or should be 20nm apart and everything leaving Iraq airspace at the same level is or should be 20nm apart......to achieve that we use 5nm or 1000' seps to climb or descend etc..just like every other country.

The ACC and APP are in the same room.

High level is in one room (240 and above)
Low level is in the other room (Kirkuk, Ali and soon Baghdad approach)
The exception is Samarra which is in the 'High' Level room

. You will freze to death while on radar because they keep 3 AC units each of 18000BTU on full. After 2 hours your feet are numb.

during the day you are hot, during the night you are cold......you actually work this out within about a month of working here and so you adjust your clothing to suit the shift you are on and on the mids you bring an extra piece of clothing. If this is an issue then you are to precious to be here.

The program should have been...2 day shifts,2 Evening,2 Mids,1 Sleep day,3 days off. It`s not. Only 1 day off. I worked 10 weeks and 2 weeks off.

Correct...this is an issue and highlighted at a recent staff meeting. I believe most of us are agreeing that there is nothing to do here so will continue this cycle but management are looking at more leave and less time between leave breaks.....wait and see situ

Almost 70% of the controllers are American. The other 30% ...Islanders, New Zeelanders,Australians, South Africans, Spanish, British, Romanian, Macedonian,Panama.

by Islanders I presume you mean Icelandics ..now I'm trying to do this off the top of my head
Icelandic = 8
New Zealand = 2
Australian -2
Spanish =1
Romanian = 1
Macedonian =1
Panama = 1
British = 4 (not including any management but including a Scotsmen)
Canadian = 3 (not including management but including a Lebanese Canadian)
American = 17

While I probably have forgotten someone at any rate the % is around 50 percent.

Most of them if not all are retired.

The Americans have some compulsory system that I don't understand with regards retirement. The rest of us have resigned from our former employers and the age bracket is low (under 55}

This is not a permanent job. 4 maby 6 months. After that..u r done.

Don't quite feel 'done' yet and its been 9 months but hang on...I'll just go knock on the door of someone who has done 3.5 years......back soon....yep he is still almost sane


The Bond is louder than actions. Over

[TheNoFlyZone]

separation in Iraq airspace is as per ICAO DOC 4444 and the ..rest of the world..5NM and 1000ft

Does approach control have the right to put 3nm, or are those part of the "procedures still to come"?

Thenoflyzone

[Chilli Monster]

Does approach control have the right to put 3nm, or are those part of the "procedures still to come"?


Bearing in mind the Approach sectors, as done at the moment, are approx 200nm x 200nm, displayed on 26" displays, the chances of 3nm are non-existent in the current environment / configuration.

Not that the traffic density needs it - 5nm is fine and, more importantly, comfortable.

[ron83]

Bearing in mind the Approach sectors, as done at the moment, are approx 200nm x 200nm, displayed on 26" displays, the chances of 3nm are non-existent in the current environment / configuration.

Can you scale up/down there and do you have vector function over there?:confused:

[2 Dogs]

I don't suppose there is much chance of a 60 year old Tower Controller who is bored sh@%*ess with his present job getting a gurnsey? (previously held radar appch and en-route but now lapsed)

[CYAFAA]

I have sent in my CV and have an upcoming interview. I have seen the youtube video which shows the camp area. As to working conditions, I'm assuming three shifts ?? and what is the on/off rotation? What sort of radar and communication equipment are you using and are they reliable? Do you cross qualify in all areas if you have multiple ratings? That's it for now - thanks!

[Sabre25]

Yes the pay is correct 180K . Pays better the Midwest and you don't work 60 hours a week. Will be headed that way soon. Kabul is not for me. BTW the leave policy is much better with SERCO

[Frostie]

Did you get any info? I am interested in the Serco job too, but it is hard to find good info to help with the decision.

[baghdadkiwi]

what specifically do you want to know....happy to answer any questions but not the ....what's it like....how do you find it.....type questions as this only encourages opinion based answers, not factual.

[meddle east]

kiwi,

hard to say what is factual about baghdad, but that is just my 'opinion'.

If you are qualified for radar, you should have little trouble getting hired in Iraq by Serco. They are losing lots of people here for various reasons, but I have heard many controllers say (that would be a fact) that they are frustrated.

equipment, quality of life, management, Iraqi culture, leave policies, safety, visa issues

and the list goes on and on

I would consider this a short term solution to any monetary issues someone may have. Not really air traffic control here (opinion)

ME

[Number2]

Wonder how many Americans will stay once the last US troops have left at the end of the year?

[Vercingetorix]

Yep, what will be the security situation at the ATC facility when the American troops pull out?:(

[meddle east]

Security around here is more about appearances (IMO) than actually preventing anything.

two examples:

1. Water supplies not guarded when first put in. Huge tanks sitting outside camp, no one watching, anyone who wanted to could have unscrewed caps on top and put anything in.

2. mortar attack recently. management went to bunkers, some controllers never notified. Oh, and there are not enough bunkers for the people here. Oh, and no more are being built. ("bunkers do not really protect you...." heard said by mngt my me)

ME

[baghdadkiwi]

ME
You obviously have an axe to grind - this posting in Iraq is optional - you can always leave if you hate it this much!!!!

If you are qualified for radar, you should have little trouble getting hired in Iraq by Serco.

But as we all know - applications accepted by Serco are vetted by the Iraqi's and they have the final say.

TThey are losing lots of people here for various reasons, but I have heard many controllers say (that would be a fact) that they are frustrated.

equipment, quality of life, management, Iraqi culture, leave policies, safety, visa issues

and the list goes on and on

won't disagree but what I will say is you can either get caught up in it or you can just go what the f... and come to work, do the job as best you can and then get on the bus and go back to your room/bar/gym. For that you will (at the moment) get paid 530USD/day. I work in the approach room, on average I will work 6 hours of my 8 hour day on position so over 1 cycle I work 36 hours every 8 days. On conclusion of a year you would have been paid around 3730USD per week - tax free.


Not really air traffic control here (opinion)

Totally disagree here....most ATC systems around the world now are so streamlined, regulated, x this point at this time, your slot is....etc etc its taken the enjoyment out of it. Actually having to think.

The ATC here below FL230 is pure ATC, its random, quiet,busy, frantic, frustrating......everyone (mostly) have to get vectors around the **** load of military aircraft flying around that are not on your freq. All departures, particularly out of Baghdad are on headings and you have to weave them through all the traffic on another frequency. Yes there are supposedly procedures but very rarely adhered to so you have to just work the traffic to make it work. Sorry, but I class this as being an air traffic controller. But then again - if you don't like it, you can always leave.

hard to say what is factual about baghdad

My intent was that some may ask specific questions about the work over here eg roster rotation, ratings, living, pay etc - things that I could give a factual answer to. I do not like to to influence people on a career change based on my opinion ie what I like or dislike here and printed may influence someone to apply/not apply when their likes/dislikes would differ from mine.

Security around here is more about appearances (IMO) than actually preventing anything.

two examples:

1. Water supplies not guarded when first put in. Huge tanks sitting outside camp, no one watching, anyone who wanted to could have unscrewed caps on top and put anything in.

2. mortar attack recently. management went to bunkers, some controllers never notified. Oh, and there are not enough bunkers for the people here. Oh, and no more are being built. ("bunkers do not really protect you...." heard said by mngt my me)

Well that came out of left field...........the water, FFS....everyone knows here the water from the tanks are for flushing your **** down the toilet and showers. If you use it for anything else....what can I say....there is so much bottled water here than you could shake a bottle water stick at. I use that for my drinking water, jug water, teeth cleaning water. The only other thing I know the tank supply does is the ice machines....and it goes through about 5 filters before it even gets to the frozen stage. Even if some scrotum drove up to the tanks outside the camp where the flood lights are on and the guards have a video on permanent camera out the front, and injected something into the water supply...ahh I'm just raving now....

By the way....big new bunker down by my room...what mortars you talking about? The ones on the military base some time ago or the controlled detonations the other night that only some of us were told about?

[ferris]

Baghdadkiwi...some clarifications;
you can always leave if you hate it this much!!!! I am told by a recent escapee that you WILL hate it this much, and in a very short time. Anyone who does any research must surely know that, going in. It is a 'money grab', and that's it. On the topic of which...
- are you including your travel allowance and gratuity in your annual figure, and hence, other figures?
- are you neglecting to mention how much you will spend (be relieved of) to get in and out for those precious days out of country?
- is there any will to change the 6 on, 1 off 'cycle'? (anyone who has a job already should work out how much they will make working 6 on 1 off ad infinitum in their current job and see how much it works out to- and should probably think about employer pension/superannuation contribution as well).

Prospectives should probably compare other mid east gigs and determine if the Iraq 'premium' is acceptable (especially in a few months time without any US troops).

[SINGAPURCANAC]

is acceptable (especially in a few months time without any US troops).
quite acceptable if you ask someone like me, with significant experience combined NATO/civil flights in the same area. Once USA troops had left, shine and bright day began for our aviation community. :}


(N.B. as long as there is French Air Forces ,USA troops aren't the worst.) :E

[Frostie]

What exactly is the ICAA looking at in one's application?
What will happpen when the US troops withdrawal? Has Serco addressed that?
Does the US provide security at the airport?
Will Camp Victory closed after the withdrawal?

Is there internet? how good is it, speed & reliability?
What type of phone do most use? Do phone data plans work, specifically Blackberrys or iPhones?

I've been told that rush trips out of Iraq can take a few days for a visa. Is that the visa "problem" you mentioned?
What airline is best for travel?
How is the coffee?

Those are a few questions I have.

[Plazbot]

As per Qs about US troops, I thought the Gurkas looked after security at the compound?

Either way, **** that.

[baghdadkiwi]

What exactly is the ICAA looking at in one's application?


Who knows.....its a complete mystery to all of us

What will happpen when the US troops withdrawal? Has Serco addressed that?

Yes they have....no one knows regards how the country will react


Does the US provide security at the airport?

No they don't - its a private company called G4S...the checkpoints we go through are Iraqi employed

Will Camp Victory closed after the withdrawal?

Not sure at this stage


Is there internet? how good is it, speed & reliability?

Yes...broadband wireless, its okay most of the time, can be a bit slow if everyone is downloading at the same time. I use it all the time to call home etc and never a problem


What type of phone do most use? Do phone data plans work, specifically Blackberrys or iPhones?

I use a Iphone Viber programe which means I can call home any time for free from both my abode or work. Skype is the same. Also have an Iraqi cellphone and number for emergencies so I can always be contactable. Works fine.

I've been told that rush trips out of Iraq can take a few days for a visa. Is that the visa "problem" you mentioned?

Visa requires giving up your passport for a few days while it goes into town to get 'stamped'. None of us like this but this is how it happens. If you need to get out 'quickly' there is a system in place where the camp manager here can go to the airport and get a 'get out quick' visa in 1 day.

What airline is best for travel?

Numerous airlines fly into baghdaddy....depends where you want to go to and all reputable airlines. I just paid for Emirates tickets for Jan vacation out of here, also you can fly Turkish, Jordanian, Iraqi, Global Jet, Etihad, Iranair, and a bunch of others that allude me now. As to the best.....well depends which side of the world your flying out too....eg most of the americans use Turkish to fly westbound to the states, same with the guys from european countries. I go the other way (thru Dubai). There is no problem getting out of here.


How is the coffee?[/QUOTE]

Pretty good.......

[baghdadkiwi]

Plazbot.......you have been misinformed

[baghdadkiwi]

I am told by a recent escapee that you WILL hate it this much, and in a very short time. Anyone who does any research must surely know that, going in. It is a 'money grab', and that's it. On the topic of which...
- are you including your travel allowance and gratuity in your annual figure, and hence, other figures?
- are you neglecting to mention how much you will spend (be relieved of) to get in and out for those precious days out of country?
- is there any will to change the 6 on, 1 off 'cycle'? (anyone who has a job already should work out how much they will make working 6 on 1 off ad infinitum in their current job and see how much it works out to- and should probably think about employer pension/superannuation contribution as well).

Prospectives should probably compare other mid east gigs and determine if the Iraq 'premium' is acceptable (especially in a few months time without any US troops).

193600USD is the total package tax free (at the moment)

No one really talks these days about the US troops not being here..and that being a stay/go issue. When I arrived at the beginning of the year it was all the talk and a concern particularly amongst the american controllers here. I haven't heard that concern for months ... its all been about working conditions.

you say a recent escapee tells you YOU WILL HATE IT...there in lies the issue with opinions that I was talking about earlier. There are issues but I don't hate the place and keep coming back after my leave.

The cost of flying in and out is part of that 193600USD. Depends on how you choose to fly out of here or what you do on your holiday as to how much you spend.

What else is there...yes the shifts, its been brought up time and time again...hopefully we are getting an answer this week from Serco management that addresses the issue of our work schedule..they have recognised that it is different over here and are addressing it. Whether or not something happens remains to be seen.....we are waiting.

[ron83]

1.How does validation is done? How long does it take? Are you get paid while on OJT?
2. Does anyone who used to work there, was able to get back to descent places?
3.How does an ANSP will look at your CV,when they see
BGW as your last employer?

Best regards.

[ron83]

My second question was part of a third. What I meant there, does someone,who worked at BGW for 3 or 5 years was able to get position at other ANSP when they left? But looking at answer on 3-rd I assume that,yes.

Back to Q.1. Validation up to me?:hmm: So there is no other requirement than those 2 weeks,or if you said it has been dropped no requirements at all? How long it took for you to validate?

How long is the leave 8 weeks on 2 off? Can you do 16 on 4 off?

Regards.

[meddle east]

I've been told that rush trips out of Iraq can take a few days for a visa. Is that the visa "problem" you mentioned?

Visa requires giving up your passport for a few days while it goes into town to get 'stamped'. None of us like this but this is how it happens. If you need to get out 'quickly' there is a system in place where the camp manager here can go to the airport and get a 'get out quick' visa in 1 day. Seems odd that someone who likes 'facts' so much did not want to provide the full answer. One controller had a relative very ill... he did not manage to get out in one day. Two? Noooo,

Want to rework this one?

Is there internet? how good is it, speed & reliability?

Yes...broadband wireless, its okay most of the time, can be a bit slow if everyone is downloading at the same time. I use it all the time to call home etc and never a problemThis has not been everyone's experience. Some here have complained about the lack of both reliability and bandwidth here. Serco has gone to some lengths to improve the internet (already a warning sign IMO) and it seems to have worked. But I have heard many complaints of skype calls being so bad/dropped that the callers have given up. And not just by controllers, by management and outsiders here at camp also.



What the f are you asking here???? Your english is very bad.Seems like anyone who does not think BGD is issue free will feel the wrath of Kiwi on the forum

For someone who would like a few more facts. The 14 day certification time has not been 'dropped' it is just disregarded at the whims of 'whomever'. There have been blokes let go. If Kiwi wants to argue this, ask Serco to put it in writing and you will soon see the error of his thinking.

Just a few weeks ago, two controllers were sitting around the camp hours before their planes were to leave without a visa/passport. Ask them how they think the visa program appears.

All in all, I am staying for another 6 months to finish out the year, but not everyone is. This place has a frustration level that will overwhelm some, grind on others, and never seem to affect others. Like many of these appointments I assume.

ME

[meddle east]

the water, FFS....everyone knows here the water from the tanks are for flushing your **** down the toilet and showers. If you use it for anything else....what can I say....there is so much bottled water here than you could shake a bottle water stick at. I use that for my drinking water, jug water, teeth cleaning water. The only other thing I know the tank supply does is the ice machines....and it goes through about 5 filters before it even gets to the frozen stage. Even if some scrotum drove up to the tanks outside the camp where the flood lights are on and the guards have a video on permanent camera out the front, and injected something into the water supply...ahh I'm just raving now....sorry it took a bit to post an answer to this, wanted to be sure of my 'facts'...

Asked the cooks how many bottles of water they used when they made the soup: after many confused looks= NONE

asked the dish washers how many bottles of water they used per plate/ per cup:
more confused looks=NONE

apparantly water is used for more than your loo. But just to be sure, I checked with security about water supply and now there are two separate areas. One area is locked up with concertina wire on back side (where the cameras are NOT). Guess you are not the expert, and some do think, including security that potable water should be safeguarded. Glad you are not in charge.

By the way....big new bunker down by my room... But the real question is: Are there enough bunkers for all the people here at the camp? (quick answer : NO) And are more coming? Seems not. To which management always seems to answer.... "the bunkers aren't really any protection anyway" Of course that did not keep them from occupying them during the mortar attack (not the controlled detonation-we all know the difference) while many controllers sat in their tin cans, unaware of any danger at all.

Since you like it, stay. Many here don't and are leaving at year end. Should be interesting since the present staff is already being asked to work well past 6 days in a row.

ME

[baghdadkiwi]

my oh my. Did you break a nail precious?

Asked the cooks how many bottles of water they used when they made the soup: after many confused looks= NONE

asked the dish washers how many bottles of water they used per plate/ per cup:
more confused looks=NONE
you obviously have a good command of their language because you could tell them "your mother wears Jack Boots" and they will look at you and smile and say yes sir no sir.......they do not understand english, hence the confused look you talk about.

apparantly water is used for more than your loo. But just to be sure, I checked with security about water supply and now there are two separate areas. One area is locked up with concertina wire on back side (where the cameras are NOT). Guess you are not the expert, and some do think, including security that potable water should be safeguarded. Glad you are not in charge. And I guess they spoke fluent english as well and knew exactly what you were asking. The tanks are in one area, separated by the compound wall ie most of the tanks are outside the wall..next to the guard hut and 2 or 3 tanks are inside the wall..but none the less they are all confined to one area. Yes I can see someone coming up in a car...pull up outside the guard hut...climb up on the tanks...under all the spot lights ....and put in..well whatever you think they are going to put in. Please...... I'll leave it up to you to find the rest of the negatives ...guess you will find a negative in the 10% payrise as well....and you say your staying for another 6 months - my.... how you must hate being here.

Seems like anyone who does not think BGD is issue free will feel the wrath of Kiwi on the forum whatever

Seems odd that someone who likes 'facts' so much did not want to provide the full answer. One controller had a relative very ill... he did not manage to get out in one day. Two? Noooo,

Want to rework this one? I said in my post that there was a system in place..didn't say it worked. Having said that it has worked for a number of people who have had to leave quickly and on a couple of occasions it hasn't gone to plan and they have had to wait for a day....but you just go ahead and reword that how you want...

[LXGB]

If I was working out there, I would be a bit concerned about the beads in the windows. I think there are 7 by my count.

[baghdadkiwi]

But the real question is: Are there enough bunkers for all the people here at the camp? (quick answer : NO) There are 3 bunkers on the Serco side of the camp...easily fit us all in spread between the 3..think standing space..you can cram a lot of people in to a confined area when all standing.

This has not been everyone's experience. Some here have complained about the lack of both reliability and bandwidth here. Serco has gone to some lengths to improve the internet (already a warning sign IMO) and it seems to have worked. But I have heard many complaints of skype calls being so bad/dropped that the callers have given up. And not just by controllers, by management and outsiders here at camp also. if you say so...from my point of view it hasn't been a problem, sometimes slow, but I mentioned about that. It may be dependent on where you are on the camp so I won't refute what you are saying other than to say it has not been my experience.

Just a few weeks ago, two controllers were sitting around the camp hours before their planes were to leave without a visa/passport. Ask them how they think the visa program appears. It might not be perfect and yes it is stressful waiting for your exit visa...but I have not heard of anyone missing their flight out of here due to a visa issue.

This place has a frustration level that will overwhelm some, grind on others, and never seem to affect others. totally agree with you

All in all, I am staying for another 6 months to finish out the year, but not everyone is. its 12 months service not a Jan to Jan type thing, I don't know of anyone currently here who has tendered their resignation effective less than 12 months service.

[ferris]

Talk it up as much as you want. However, considering the flightglobal ad is offering 177k usd for a gig in Abu Dhabi, WHY would you go to Baghdad for the coin on offer?
Risk/reward- it's a no-brainer!

[baghdadkiwi]

Lets get one thing straight....at no point am I trying to 'talk this up'. It is not the most fun place to be, I don't deny that, and there is a risk involved in being here. The total package now is 218200USD with no costs except your travel. You either want to be here or you don't, each to their own, I tried to provide factual answers to questions but someone has taken it on board to get a couple of negative issues and make mohammad out of mo. I can't be bothered now

[Tower Ranger]

So basically you are giving up a year of your life for 200K, which if you look at the hourly rate is probably less than either Abu Dhabi or Dubai.

[meddle east]

But the real question is: Are there enough bunkers for all the people here at the camp? (quick answer : NO)

There are 3 bunkers on the Serco side of the camp...easily fit us all in spread between the 3..think standing space..you can cram a lot of people in to a confined area when all standing.

Yeah, you sound very brave. Guess the women will just stand outside while you are nice and comfy. There are NOT enough bunkers! And you still haven't addressed the issue of not even being told the mortars are here. While management sits all cozy in the bunker - with you!

ME

[meddle east]

I tried to provide factual answers to questions but someone has taken it on board to get a couple of negative issues and make mohammad out of mo. I can't be bothered nowyeah, but you lied about the facts, so :mad: you!

they do not understand english, hence the confused look you talk about.Jimmy understands English better than you do. But you probably don't know Jimmy. Since you come into the dining room, grab a styrofoam container and eat in your room. Hmmm, is that why you don't care about what kind of water they wash the dishes with?

I said in my post that there was a system in place..didn't say it worked. Having said that it has worked for a number of people who have had to leave quickly and on a couple of occasions it hasn't gone to plan and they have had to wait for a day....but you just go ahead and reword that how you want...lies in my opinion don't have to be just saying things that are untrue. They can also be twists of facts. or items not mentioned. I guess if I said there was a "system in place" for anything, at the end, I could just beg off and say "Didn't say it worked!"

Grade school stuff considering folks are considering these answers in deciding whether to change their whole lives around.

It might not be perfect and yes it is stressful waiting for your exit visa...but I have not heard of anyone missing their flight out of here due to a visa issuemore lies, or just too stupid to ask around Mr. "Precious" ...

two controllers were here waiting for their visas which either did not come at all, or came late. One controller never did get reimbursed for airline tickets his wife had bought to meet him. The other's wife spent 3 days in Dubai -- ALONE - while here husband was stuck here in BGD.

anyone think being stuck here in BDG while your plans go up in smoke is 'a system in place' ?

Also, another controller was given his exit visa but....... drum roll please.... it had already been expired. If he had not double checked it himself he would have been up the creek.

ME

[JayeRipley]

This has turned into the usual PPRUNE mud slinging.

People here have very different experiences. Personally I have had no issue with exit visas so far but I know many others who, as Meddle says, have awful problems.

What I would say, is that prior to me arriving, BaghdadKiwi provided me with a wealth of information about the place for which I was and still am very grateful.

If anyone would like information on being here then feel free to pm me.

The information I give will be to the best of my knowledge and based on my own personal experience - I can't speak for everyone.

I came here for a number of reasons and so far my experience has been positive. I am aware of a large number of people who are not so happy about their time here and find many issues, both Serco and Iraq related, very frustrating to put it mildly.

So, if you want to know anything, feel free to get in touch. My answers will be honest but based on my own experience.

Cheers for now :)

[Frostie]

All this talk about the frustration reminds me of my current employer. You can pay $250k/yr with NO risk and some, if not most are still miserable. So the working conditions would not be any different for me.

As far as risk/reward goes; I'm more concerned about a nuke going off nearby than a mortar, in which case the lack of shelters may be a moot point.

As far as waiting for the visa, giving up your passport; would you rather go into Baghdad and get your visa yourself? I would be torqued if I missed a flight because of a visa delay. How far in advance can you request the visa?

[meddle east]

This has turned into the usual PPRUNE mud slinging.yeah, i just re read what i wrote, and it does sound a lot more personal than i intended.

I guess i object to folks whitewashing the conditions just because they don't happen to personally get affected.

for anyone who is thinking of coming, I would agree with J ripley, there are lots of different reactions to being out here. These reactions may be caused as much by the personal attributes of the individual as to the various and sundry 'stresses' we are all exposed to.

Myself, I am staying for the short term. Who knows, I may be getting 'take away' from the DFac and hibernate in my cabin like BGDwiwi next month.

ME

[knuckels]

Lets get one thing straight....at no point am I trying to 'talk this up'. It is not the most fun place to be, I don't deny that, and there is a risk involved in being here. The total package now is 218200USD with no costs except your travel

Can you give a break down of the 218,000 USD pay? I was told it was closer to 200,000. 170,000 base + 10,000 travel, + 13600 1 yr bonus = 193600,000.

[baghdadkiwi]

base has gone up by 10 percent effective 1 October (back dated), travel allowance is one extra per year, bonus increased to 10%

......waiting to get shot down in this as well but......

170000 plus 10%
Travel Allowance x one extra ie 12500USD in total
Bonus for one year 10% of base

All is pro rata from 1 October

= 218200USD/year

costs.....nil except your travel/holiday out of here which remains at 56 per year

[baghdad glenn]

Are they taking any new applications? Looking to come back, can't stand this easy life Stateside.

[knuckels]

170000 plus 10%
Travel Allowance x one extra ie 12500USD in total
Bonus for one year 10% of base

Is the travel bonus still given after each 10 week period, or did they reduce the work period to 8 weeks and then a 2 week vacation? Thanks

[Chilli Monster]

Travel allowance is paid monthly in your salary, so just over $1000 / month.

Leave is still effectively 4 x 2.5 weeks annually

[knuckels]

Thanks Monster. I have been trying to get this info out of SERCO. It's like pulling teeth. In 2 sentences you answered what they could not, in 3 emails.

Ciao.

[grizzled]

Tower Ranger

First, how the heck are you? Longtime no talk...

Re your post about the total $ amount being close to what a controller gets in AUH or DXB, you are quite right -- in terms of "hourly rate".

BUT...

A. The actual amount that goes into one's bank account each month is quite a bit more on the Baghdad contract of course.
B. As all housing and meals are supplied, and there is basically nowhere other than "Big Al's" restaurant and a small convenience store to spend one's money, the amount one saves, or has left in one's account at the end of each month, is MUCH greater than in the UAE. Even if one only pays an average rent in DXB or AUH, and doesn't go to Barasti or Irish Village often... ;)
C. Many of the controllers at BACC are over the age Serco will consider for those other contracts (Bahrain included); and definitely past the age most other countries / ANSPs will accept.

So, for some "old guys", it can be a good gig.

grizz

[meddle east]

I have been trying to get this info out of SERCO. It's like pulling teeth. In 2 sentences you answered what they could not, in 3 emails.

and this is probably the most frustrating thing out here. Simple things, easily taken care of, just aren't.

The management seems to feel that they do not need to respond to the employees. Either administrative, or just general concerns. Their attitude is, "Hey, if you don't like it, just leave"

this place could be very decent, but I have no hopes with the present management in place. Serco should clean house, morale would improve overnight.

ME

[Vercingetorix]

The management seems to feel that they do not need to respond to the employees. Either administrative, or just general concerns. Their attitude is, "Hey, if you don't like it, just leave" This place could be very decent, but I have no hopes with the present management in place. Serco should clean house, morale would improve overnight.
........
There was an internal audit done six weeks ago. An admin notice was published stating that: “**** ********” – visa permitting – will be visiting from 27 November to 1 December. He will be undertaking an independent audit of the operation on behalf of Serco. This “audit” is advance prep for an ICAO audit that will occur "sometime" in the future.

“**** ********” is the recently departed UAE GCAA ex advisor to the DANS, the ‘notso’ Great Dane, who prior to that role held the actual position of DANS.

This appointment as an auditor, it has to be said, is very strange for the following reasons.
He has no qualifications whatsoever concerning audits. Not even that of an ISO certified internal auditor.
Whilst holding the GCAA DANS position every time Serco did their annual audit he threw it directly into the bin saying “It is worthless”.

For Serco to appoint such an under qualified person to conduct such an audit is indicative of lip service being paid to quality.

To infinity and beyond and, hopefully, back in time for tea.:ok:

[ferris]

Un*******believable.

He ran an acrimonious vendetta against Serco, and now they hire him......

Interesting times.

[Vercingetorix]

Ferris
He is working on behalf of a sub contracted danish company which he considered integral to his last tenure at the GCAA, however they were one of the reasons for his departure from GCAA.

As you say, he spent a lot of time running an acrimonious vendetta against Serco.
The phrase 'Thick as thieves' comes to mind.

Cheers:ok:

[meddle east]

For Serco to appoint such an under qualified person to conduct such an audit is indicative of lip service being paid to quality.

Quite! Lip service is what this place is all about. I am wondering whatever happened to previous audit done months ago?

Any and all audits here, and company surveys for that matter, seem to never have a 'reveal' feature. We are just left wondering.

Wish I was there for the company bigwigs' visit this week (well, not really) but with travel status presently uncertain, am glad I am on this end of the world.

ME

[clipped_wings]

Indescribable incredulity :mad::mad::mad:

The said individual spend the last 15 years denigrating SERCO, was responsible for having two competent SERCO managers removed from the GCAA contract, one because the SERCO Manager stood his ground on a fundamental safety concern, thumbed his nose at the GCAA's own regulatory department who were barred from entering their own EACC, has no auditing qualifications or experience.

Under his direction safety investigations never fully investigated structural contributory factors only where to lay the blame often without full knowledge of the facts.

SERCO have released the fox into the hen house with no thought to the eventual outcome.

[Vercingetorix]

clipped_wings
Succinctly put.
He used to be referred to as: "The world's loudmouthed expert on everything".

:ok:

[CYAFAA]

Heard there was an explosive device that landed right beside your workplace? I hope they weren't aiming at you and you are all safe and sound. Is any one now having second thoughts about being there?

[MS800B]

Hi! Just wondering are they still hiring new staff? And if someone knows do they need tower controllers? I am 26 years old, and have ADI/AIR/GMC rating (5 years) issued in accordance with ICAO nad ECAC standards, with ICAO level 5 of English... Any info is welcomed..

Regards,

[knuckels]

The turn over rate is high. A tower controller is leaving tomorrow. You never know when they will hire. The best thing to do is sign up for email notifications from Flight Global and the SERCO Middle East company site. You can input your CV into their system in advance. This way you will be ready to submit an application when they start hiring.
http://www.serco.com/middleeast/
Search Aviation & Aerospace Jobs on Flightglobal Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/default.aspx)

Good luck.

[SINGAPURCANAC]

What is going on in Sarajevo, so bad, when you want to go to Bagdad?

:confused:;)

[MS800B]

Not bad at all :) Adventure spirit :ok:

[SINGAPURCANAC]

Keep your post.
job at ICAO HQ, Montreal,Canada, is real adventure...:}

[MS800B]

@knuckles

Thanks for info! Just yesterday I have signed up for e-mail notifications on both sites, and today giving final touches to my CV and will send it ASAP...

When I get there (fingers crossed) ;) beer is on me!

[prascho]

BIZARRE:sad:

[MS800B]

@prascho - ? :rolleyes:

[grizzled]

prascho...

Same question from me. What's "bizarre"?

[prascho]

What does bizarre mean? definition, meaning and pronunciation (Free English Language Dictionary) (http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/bizarre.htm)
:rolleyes:

[Vercingetorix]

prascho
Most readers on here would be able to understand the definition of Bizarre without resort to a dictionary.
Do you, therefore, mean Bizarre in the sense that:
1. It is Bizarre to want to work in Baghdad?:sad:
2. Bizarre to have a beer in Baghdad?:ok:
3. The staff turnover rate is high?:{

Happy New Year:ok:

P.S. Grizzled, Happy New year to you. As they say in Ireland: "May your shadow never grow less"

[grizzled]

Happy New Year to you too Verc! Hope 2012 is especially rewarding and fulfilling for you!

And the same to all my ATC friends and colleagues (and, in my case, brother and nephew and daughter too!) the world over. Especially to those in such challenging places as Baghdad.

Prascho… As Vercingetorix wrote, we know what the word means. We are simply wondering what you meant.

[Farrell]

prascho...

Oh Christ, not you again!

(just do a search!)

Farrell

[prascho]

Farell..............
Oh not you again !?!1?!
Is there a place in this world without you :*

(just do a comment)

PRASCHO

[prascho]

grizzled:
That is the game friend of mine.
What does it realy mean?

Farell, my lovely english language teacher, pls tell us

[Farrell]

Hello Prascho

Are you going to waste the time of these good folks about applying in Baghdad?
If you didn't get into Muscat, what on earth makes you think that you are going to get in over there? :)

How are that benchmark of ATC - Bulgaria doing?....and how are the girls?

Farrell

[prascho]

Farell, once again.

Who is exactly going to waste the tame of these really nice folks?!?!?!
M8 find out forum for English language teachers here is not one of them, is it. And u r bloody right. Bulgaria is one of the best ATC units in Europe. There r many issues about that just read m8 just read more. U r teacher, r not u.
Being ATCO is so cool. I know that fact and I'm not going to stop u dreaming about that but really don't waste our time with your so stupid post here.
About the word "BIZZARE" and what it means.
Who has to find out what it means has already found it out.

BR PRASCHO

P.s and HAPPY NEW YEAR Farell spend more time with your wife and don't try to be 1 of us. The last 1 is too late for u.

[Farrell]

I'll get banned if I say what I want to say....so I guess I will just have to hold my tongue.

As I said in a previous post:

"In all seriousness, a propaganda video of the sort that you have just spewed out is no reflection on professionalism or indeed competence.

And I am presuming with your tirade on both Airways and DGMAN that you feel you are more qualified than the powers that be here that made the decision to go down this path and therefore are no longer interested in pursuing a career here - which is a very quick turnaround from your comments over the past few months on this thread looking for room-mates, Audi dealers and quote "a reason to leave my job".

Why do you want to leave such a bastion of professionalism and competence that is Bulgaria and trade it for such a "backward system with a long way to go" that is Oman?
Just for the money? That's not what you said on your original application. You gave a whole host of other bull**** reasons like people and lifestyle and "Oman's reputation in the region." right?

Seeing as though you were one of very few Bulgarians who were offered a position, it will not be too hard to pull your application and shred it for you.

After all 8,150 EUR tax-free a month is not too much to lose for shooting your mouth off anyway, is it?
Not when you can have your pick of jobs in the ME due to, as ATCO1962 says, you being part of the global standards benchmark that is ATC Bulgaria, assuming they pay the same as the "backward system" here in Oman.....oh, they don't do they?!

My advice is for you to wind your neck in - or there may be a chance the only time you see Muscat is from a postcard that BHD might be good enough to send you."

The same holds true for now. A useless waste of time and space who did nothing but whinge, complain and pass comment on a place he knew nothing about.
The fact that a full year has gone around and you are still hunting for a new place to work speaks volumes. What about Dubai, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi or Ireland?.....all of those not good enough for your supreme abilities.

Can't believe that the best you have in your arsenal of smart-arse comments is to have a go at my job!
Amazing what someone will say when they can hide behind an alias, isn't it?

On that note, I'm off to bed to dream about being you. :rolleyes:

Farrell

[prascho]

Farell once again,
Why do u waste our time and what the connection with Baghdad is. Read the topic again also.

I'm not responsible that many my colleagues found out that Oman is not a good enough place for them too late, and leaving or have already left, and u need new ATCOs again.
And who told u that more than 2 years latter I need a new job.

Just stop. The SWW is finished m8.
let's be friends and HAPPY NEW YEAR again!

PRASCHO

[Bengal Lancer]

prascho......or should it be prat atco?

FYI Farrell is the person holding things together in ATC training in Oman......among his responsibilities one could list maintaining an appropriate level of competency in the English Language.....something you appear to struggle with!

Your comments are quite pathetic......no wonder you have no job,and if you continue to display such an attitude I have no doubt that this will remain the case!

Farrell is an aviation professional with qualifications way beyond just being a 'teacher'......so may I suggest that you take his advice and wind your neck in and stop posting garbage on this forum.

BL

[knuckels]

SERCO Baghdad is on the warpath for one of our controllers. They are fabricating a story of sector abandonment. They are doing this even when the ICAA has exonerated the controller and there are numerous statements testifying to this controllers professionalism. In reality, Management jumped the gun, and put themselves in the awkward position of trying to save face. By not using the time tested method of just asking the controller what happened, they have let things snowball into Avalanche proportions. Now the incompetent, should have retired long ago Ops Manager, has put himself into a corner where he feels he must fire the employee to save his own hairless ass. Stay tuned for updates. Be very careful of SERCO Middle East. In Baghdad, SERCO management thinks that their remoteness makes them invisible. If they could they would keep all problems in-house so they can make them vanish.

[Sam Asama]

Sadly, SERCO's behaviour, and treament of RS, is not simply unfair, it's typical. It has everything to do with face-saving and nothing to do with justice.

Anagrams are interesting things. "SERCO Safety" becomes:"A Feces Story"

Coincidence? I think not...

Sam

[Kattar Kid]

@knuckels

Friends told me that too many of the high level controllers are finishing soon?
Is this to do with the work or management or both?
How will this effect the service?



@ Sam
I like the anagram for SERCO.

Our competition Emirates Airlines becomes;

Eliminate arse sir :E

[knuckels]

Friends told me that too many of the high level controllers are finishing soon?
Is this to do with the work or management or both?
How will this effect the service?


Both. No support from Management is certainly not an incentive to stay. Knowing that a run in with the ICAA can happen at any time, and SERCO Management will not support you, is not a reassuring environment. Most people would rather depart on their own terms. There is a lot of discontent with SERCO Management. Most have lost confidence. Quite a few are actively job searching and weighing their options. Change is needed. Sitting around for near a month waiting to find the results of a nuisance investigation is very stressful. The departure of high level experience also has to do with the fact that "when it's time, It's time". You can only take so much isolation and time away from friends and family. Service will be effected in the very short term as newer ATCO's gain local experience. But, with the high experience level of all of the ATCO's new and old this is very, very short term.

[clipped_wings]

SERCO is a FTSE 100 company. As such there will be formal grievance and disciplinary procedures in place with right of appeal.

Make sure you know your rights.

[knuckels]

SERCO is a FTSE 100 company. As such there will be formal grievance and disciplinary procedures in place with right of appeal.

Make sure you know your rights.

Rights, as well as a fair and speedy process, do not exist in SERCO Baghdad. SERCO Baghdad Management is running a black ops, rogue operation the way that they handle management oversight. I am sure the home office would not approve of.

[Ibin liedtu]

Knuckles is on the money. I have been at BIAP initially with WCG and now with SERCO. WCG has much nicer facilities and finally, better food. But I at least thought that WCG Management watched out for you. With SERCO's inept Management running the show, I have seen many of our controllers put on the side lines for weeks and months at a time for no reason. All because SERCO Management refuses to make a decision or take control of their own workers. They are so afraid of hurting the ICAA's feelings, they don't dare stand up and support one of their controllers. I do disagree with Knuckles on 1 point. Mismanagement is causing controllers to leave. I know of 3 controllers that left here disgusted with Management and another 1 due to leave soon. I am surprised that the high turnover rate has not raised a flag at SERCO International. They need to fly in with the big broom in hand, and clean house!
Hang tough RS.

[Cuddles]

How's the perpetually overjoyed pict getting on?

[Red Dragon]

Serco management in Baghdad is not the be all and end all. Clipped Wings is right - the standards and policies of the company apply to all. The way that management there are behaving may well lead you to believe otherwise, but if you're not getting satisfaction there - go higher. Every manager reports to someone and the negative sentiment towards the company evident and being broadcast on here WILL matter to someone in the food chain, trust me.

If you have genuine grievances on issues that should have been handled better, then let it be known.

[Ibin liedtu]

Serco management in Baghdad is not the be all and end all. Clipped Wings is right - the standards and policies of the company apply to all. The way that management there are behaving may well lead you to believe otherwise, but if you're not getting satisfaction there - go higher. Every manager reports to someone and the negative sentiment towards the company evident and being broadcast on here WILL matter to someone in the food chain, trust me.

If you have genuine grievances on issues that should have been handled better, then let it be known.

There is fear of retribution from SERCO MGMT if the chain of management is jumped. The contract Manager recently sent out a threatening email to an ATCO. The ATCO had emailed other staff in the camp, and encouraged them to direct their displeasure with the way that an investigation of one of their peers was being handled to higher HR and Management levels outside of SERCO BIAP. In his email, theContractManager went on to discuss details of the investigation in an attempt to justify the shaft that he was giving to the ATCO under investigation. Don't know if it was a dumb mistake or intentional, but the threatening email was sent to all SERCO staff. Maybe he hit the "reply all" link by mistake? The ATCO was threatened for encouraging staff to report irregularities to higher levels outside of BIAP. Now, anyone that did not know of the investigation knows, and curiosity has peaked. Chatter has tripled. I feel sorry for the individual under suspicion. No persons privacy during an investigation should be displayed in public, especially by the Contract Manager. You would think that a FTSE 500 company would not allow this to occur.

[cant standit]

I was on this site to see what everyone at work and in the camp were talking about. I had no Idea. Such a firestorm. Such disruption.

The actions of Mr. W should not surprise anyone. Did he not say in a meeting in mid December that we would have in house medical care before Christmas. This has been an ongoing complaint for months. "We are signing the contract as we speak" he said. Still no in-house medical care. Surprising since 2 ATCO's almost lost an eye due to delays in treatment. SERCO Ltd would have paid dearly. What is the going rate for negligence and the lost of an eye?

Did he not direct a security committee to develop ideas on increasing camp security, only to order the committee disbanded when he did not like the ideas that were proposed 2 days later?

Has there been any movement on the idea to develop and allow job sharing that he was looking into for 4 months? Many ATCO's would have stayed if this were permitted. Horrendous personnel turn over rate, how can SERCO Ltd. not see the effects of this one man wrecking crew?

Doesn't SERCO Ltd care that their reputation is being tarnished by this Management team?

[Sam Asama]

Red Dragon

No, Clipped Wings is not correct. And neither are you. I assume you haven't worked for Serco in BIAP. Whatever Serco is or does in other locations has little, if anything, to do with how they operate in Iraq.

Serco did not do adequate "due diligence" in preparation for this contract (as one of the senior managers from DXB will happily and sloppily confirm when he's had a few too many drinks). They under-estimated the tasks and under-bid by millions.

More importantly, despite the other locations where they operate, they didn't (and still don't) comprehend their responsibilities and culpabilities with respect to safety. When the day comes that someone compares their stated corporate policies, procedures and responsibilities to what they are doing, and aren't doing, in their Iraq Ops, they are in deep deep trouble. If that knowledge comes to light as a result of an accident, the damage to Serco could well be fatal.

Happy to discuss specifics if you wish.

Sam

[Sercobiap]

My last post was deleted so I'm editing this one so as not to overly offend anyone. Mr. W, the project manager, has mislead all of us since his meeting in Dec. 2010. We were told whatever it would take to keep us here to make the system work. We were told that increased days off would be in the future - not. Since then we were told the new camp would have armed Gurkha guards - not. Btw we are the only camp on BIAP without armed guards. Our guards are unarmed, untrained locals. We were promised an evacuation plan months ago - not. Also months ago, we were promised safety wardens on all shifts -not. It takes days to get emergency exit visas, unless of course you are one of the management team - they have multiple exit/entry visas that were promised to al of us months ago. If you are one of Mr. W's special employees, he has one in particular, then you receive special attention and benefits. The rest of us get the shaft. It's time for Serco Middle East, Shrin and Zafar (sp) to make some management changes. The local HR dictator needs to go as well. Morale is at an all time low.

[knuckels]

More importantly, despite the other locations where they operate, they didn't (and still don't) comprehend their responsibilities and culpabilities with respect to safety. When the day comes that someone compares their stated corporate policies, procedures and responsibilities to what they are doing, and aren't doing, in their Iraq Ops, they are in deep deep trouble. If that knowledge comes to light as a result of an accident, the damage to Serco could well be fatal.

Happy to discuss specifics if you wish.

Sam


Sam, speak away. You seem to be very wise. I have overheard that ATCO's in the approach environment mention many deficiencies in the area of administrative direction, and operational instruction. You seem to have heard the same. Management does not seem to take charge of Administrative operations that would improve safety. There does not seem to be any plan to advance operations. The ability to give the appearance that the ICAA can actually control traffic without non-ICAA help seems to be very important.

[Vercingetorix]

Sam Asama

You are correct re due diligence. Serco is supine in the face of the ICAA. Witness the recent 'Audit'. Serco will do whatever it can to keep a contract. If the ICAA wants a controller gone Serco will oblige them.
However, in Serco's favour they have and do try to place controllers at their other facilities, assuming a suitable vacancy is available.

Cheers

[Frostie]

How long is the SERCO contract in Iraq?

If they under bid the contract, why did they increase the pay?

[grizzled]

The increase in pay was (mostly) to compensate for the fact that the controllers are still working the same shift pattern that they started with a year ago -- even though they were promised a 6-3, and then a 6-4.

Serco is stuck with the staffing numbers that were submitted in the bid, though those numbers are unrealistic, hence the staff are working longer hours at position, and more days of work in a month, in order for the system to operate. So Serco had to offer more in order to prevent the slow leak of departing controllers from becoming a major flood. A 10% increase in pay is much more affordable than the penalties for breach of contract.

Will that alone be enough? Insh Allah...

[Sam Asama]

RS was "fired" today. This incredibly poor decision by Serco (and the ICAA) will prove to be a BIG mistake. :ugh:

Good luck RS, and a safe flight home. You will find something better. You deserve something better.

Sam

[Sercobiap]

The way Serco treated RS is deplorable. The Ops Manager should be the one fired for throwing RS under the bus and then driving over him. The Contract Director should be gone also for allowing this whole mess to take place when he has known for the months the Ops Manager is way over his head in this, or any, position.

[Ibin liedtu]

RS's fate was determined before any investigation was even started. The last minute attempt at an investigation was SERCO trying to cover up the incompetent handling of the investigation from the start. Anyone know a cheap HR Lawyer that wants to make easy money? This is a no brainer? Anyone on Stuck Mike? Our friends across the Atlantic should know what kind of Organization that SERCO is.

[Sercobiap]

Drum roll - - - - the results are in -

Outstanding Commitment -Mr. W., nominated by Andy, Ven, George and Mark. Ven, nominated by Andy, George, Mark and Ven. Siggi, Area/Approach Controllers (sorry, you Training and Tower guys just don't quite cut it) and RS, this was obviously a mistake, he doesn't even work here any more - (this one must really kill Mr. W.)

Making an Exceptional Impact on Mr. W. the winner is Eva. the others were Riad and Rick from Serco and Sabah from ABG

That's it folks. Thanks for tuning in.

[cant standit]

Seemingly overnight it was decided to rework the Iraq airspace. This will be done, this will be done now. No regard for infrastructure, training, procedures, employee input, briefings, or automation changes. In a matter of days, 2 new radar positions will be developed.

The Iraq radar , land line, and radio infrastructure is old, broke, and not holding on well. Radar coverage does not cover half of the Iraq airspace. The primary means to contact 2 northern towers is a prepaid cell phone. Bleed over from improper transmitter placement makes pilot to controller communication a guessing game. Direct line communication with adjacent FIR's may be available on 1 out of 4 positions that require it. Automation is so bad that operational radar tracks drop from the radar scopes on an everyday, every hour frequency.

Is this really the time to stretch the rubber band even further?

[hueyracer]

Maybe you guys can enlighten us about what has happened to the Baghdad "International" Airport Instrument Procedures?

NOTAMS say they have been "off" for the last days......

Just curious...still good enough flying without them...(not that it would make any difference)....

[cant standit]

The status of any paperwork related information regarding aviation and airports in Iraq is always suspect. Changes take forever. Information that is known to be wrong or obsolete can not be changed because those with the authority to change it do not have the experience, knowledge or balls to make the change. The ICAA refuses to accept direction or help from anyone. They know better! Navigational equipment goes up and down all day long. Usually it is the pilots that inform ATC of the changes. Scheduled Maintenance and outage information does not get passed to the controllers. Navaid status is ever changing and information on the status drops through the cracks. Things like new antennas/obstacles are not reported through any channel and thus do not go on charts. Good luck flying out there.

[hueyracer]

Just flying visual anyway......ifr just a backup....

You just confirmed what we have been speculating about....thx....always good to have you guys up on the tower.......
The iraqis do what they want-on both sides; in the tower AND in the air...

Laughed my ass off when the tower cleared to Iraqi MI-17´s to stay WEST of 33L due to a fixed wing taking off from there.....and the helos just crossed underneath the departing plane, ignoring the yelling controller....

:ugh:

[Lssar]

Hey there at Baghdad, do you still have with you a fellow comrade from Spain? If yes, please tell C. to update, he will know what I mean.

Do you expect vacancies in the short term there at Baghdad? May consider applying myself.

Saludos!

[grizzled]

So, Ladies and Gents at BIAP...

Who took the decision not to renew the contract? Serco or the ICAA? Whatever the case, if the Iraqi CAA thinks they can provide a safe IFR control service at any of the units in the country, they need to stop whatver meds they are on.

I predict information will come to light in the next few months which will cause some carriers to start avoiding Iraqi airspace, and even some of those that fly into ORB will cease those ops.

This is going to get interesting.

[LXGB]

New advert on the flightglobal website today (http://mjobx.com/MaxxAA).

[eastern wiseguy]

Seems they have a job and an incorrect job description...one refers to Baghdad and the other to training Bahrainis......wouldn't fill me with confidence in a future employer

[TRACKBALL]

Air Traffic Control Officer - 2 months assignment with Serco Middle East | 1401340384 (http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401340384/air-traffic-control-officer-2-months-assignment/)

Opening to train Iraqi's in ATC...

Any insight on this? Is this the end of ex-pats working ATC in Baghdad?

[rowdyyates]

Work for Serco? hahahahahahaha

[grizzled]

how sensible the ICAA will be about Serco staff numbers.

Another hahahahaha....

[nomoreforme]

I left BIAP last June after starting with WCG and going to SERCO. It is interesting to hear whats been going on since I, left through this forum. Back in October I offered to come back in January for three months to help out with staffing, since I knew there were going to be a number of controllers leaving at the end of the year. I was told everything was fine and there were no problems with staffing, thanks for the offer but we don't need you.

Sounds like things were a bit different.

[261_p]

So SERCO Baghdad are advertising again, this time on a 5 month contract until end of this year. Air Traffic Control Officer (http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401342969/air-traffic-control-officer-fixed-term-assignment-5-months/)

The listing mentions competitive package + return flights, anyone have a ball park figure of what the 'competitive' package consists of and what the shift pattern is?

[knuckels]

The shifts are 7-3, 3-11, and 11-7.

For full time controllers, The pay package consists of base pay (187,000), travel pay (12500.00), and a bonus at the end of a years employment. I do not know if it would be the same for a short term contract. Most likely prorated. They do pay for your airfare to Baghdad and home at the end of the 5 months. We get a travel allowance of 12,500 a year that is supposed to help offset any additional travel that we do on our own.

[ranger703]

Is big Frank still at Baghdad? If he is can someone ask him to PM me,ta.

[knuckels]

US Dollars.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

What is the truth, about exec jets with more than 10 seats banned from Iraq.

To protect local interests is my only logical thought.


Glf

[Chilli Monster]

What local interests? There is NO GA / Corporate aviation in Iraq.

And GLEX's / G5's have been visitors to the country.

[LXGB]

New flightglobal ad...

Air Traffic Controller job with Serco Middle East Erbil, Iraq:

Air Traffic Controller with Serco Middle East (http://mjobx.com/s0b/AA)

Competitive Salary and Accompanied Status :)

[iamureyes]

I am a newbie here....so just passing by to say Hello! :-)

Well...I spent almost an hour to read this thread carefully from the first post....Serco/Baghdad project is still on the go according to my humble info sources. Either you believe it or not i would be ready to apply, no second thought....more than 10 years experience as an ATCO military-civilian mix...in my home country salary is 1200 Euros a month and getting worse...12 months of my life in exchange of approx. 200.000 USD is a a hit and go for me....or even better if SERCO after succesful completion of the 12 months duty could give to "suicidal" types like me a better job offer at a more quite and civilized place of M. East.
Generally looking for an ATCO job in the "sandpit" region and any help or advise would be highly appreciated. I hope farell or any other with some good connections could PM me.

Thank you guys :-)
I am happy that found you, its nice to see pros that are sharing the same concerns, problems with you. I intent to stay at this forum ...
like this place :-)

[iamureyes]

I watched the kindly provided video of Baghdad Hilton.......(much more carefully than first time)... I only would like to add my 2 cents....it is apparently obvious that all things is a matter of point of view and..."reality" is rather subjective. We had two guys working and living at the same enviroment having two completely different views.... after watching the video didnt see something that cannot live with if they pay me 200K plus a year...in my part of the world...thats a lot of money...and no....I dont live in a Third World country :-)

I hope to find an ATCO job in a better place but if i end up in Baghdad wont be the end of the world.

Have a nice day to all!!

[kiwicontroller]

G'day all,

Just wondering whats happening out in the sand? Is serco staying? are there still jobs etc?

cheers

[knuckels]

SERCO's contract has been extended. They just have not worked out the details. There was a job opening announcement in flight global in the last week for permanent ATCO's for Baghdad.

[Afghanmike]

Can you tell me if there is any truth to Serco not hiring prior military for the ATC jobs in Baghad?

[knuckels]

We have plenty of ex-Military from many countries working in Baghdad. SERCO will not hire controllers that have only Military ATC experience. You must have Civilian ATC experience. I think 5 yrs. Civilian experience is the minimum, but the more the better. You also need 5 years OJTI experience. The requirement for civilian ATC experience is a directive from the host country. This is not a SERCO originated requirement.

[hueyracer]

As you guys are still out here-what´s this "new procedure" that the Tower does not allow our helicopters to fly south of both runways (even when taking of from SouthMike)?

[knuckels]

The reason, with no commentary - It is believed that copters departing south into on coming jet traffic that is landing to the North is unsafe. I know,I know.

[TRACKBALL]

I was looking at the Serco Iraq announcement.

What is the difference between Approach Radar (APR) and Approach Procedural (APP)? These must be UK/Euro terms.... In the US we are either:

1. Approach Control (aka TRACON)
2. Enroute Centre (aka Area Control or ARTCC) or
3. Tower (aka ATCT)

We don't have anything called APR or APP. Thanks.

[Red Dragon]

APP - Approach without radar i.e. using procedures for separation. It requires a large forehead, a sharp pencil and a bit of Jedi mind trickery.

"This isn't the VOR you're looking for...."

[knuckels]

Approach Radar is the standard Radar approach Control like you would find in the states. The approach Procedural rating is a non radar course rating.

[Afghanmike]

Thanks for the clarification Knuckles....I'm guessing I won't be coming to Baghad as I only have about 4years civilian and no OJTI....27 years military. Ah well.....

[CYAFAA]

Any update on the extension talks? Heard it isn't going as well as expected. Also, are you guys finally working a decent schedule? Did you ever get the promised 6/4 the other Serco contracts have?

[knuckels]

last word is that everyone with a deadline of 31 Dec will be extended until the numbers for the new contract are worked out. We have never worked a 6/4. We get a sleep day after the mid and then a day/night off.

[CYAFAA]

So when you get off the mid is the remainder of that day classified as your sleep day? Then you get one more day off? Sounds like you're really only getting one day off.

[Vercingetorix]

Not a lot of fun and nowhere to go of a Saturday night!:{

[knuckels]

When you get off a mid, you have the rest of that day and night off - your sleep day, and the next 24 hours after.

[Chilli Monster]

You forgot to add......."staffing permitting" :rolleyes:

[CYAFAA]

I see Serco is now advertising for Academy Instructors but not ATCO's. What's the latest on the contract that was supposedly extended?

[knuckels]

The contract has not been officially extended. Nothing has been signed. The contract will continue with the hopes of a longer contract signed effective around 1 Apr 2013. There is supposed to be a short extension from 1 Jan to 31 Mar 2013. But nothing has been signed as of yet. There is higher up Iraqi support for a contract, but numbers and services have yet to be agreed to.

[CYAFAA]

Interesting reading;
http://www.icao.int/MID/Documents/2012/midrma-board-12/WP10.pdf

Lots of continued promises from the ICAA (Serco). Most surprising is that it has taken two years to institute SMS?? If its even been completed??

No wonder the Iraqi government is dragging their feet on resigning with Serco.

[Frostie]

A lot of nothing.... :sad:

[CYAFAA]

Doesn't Serco have an AIS Manager in Baghdad? Just took a look at the latest AIP. Two years and they are still not AIRAC compliant!! What the heck have they been doing? The document is also chock full of outdated and incorrect information. Very unprofessional and a sad reflection on Serco's contribution to the rebuilding process. I'm sure WCG and others are waiting in the wings to pounce when the ICAA wakes up and discovers they have been duped and Serco sails off into the horizon.

[Frostie]

Sheer incompetence in that department. Again you ask what have they been doing? I hear they have a nice bar...

You think it's bad from the outside, try working there..:ugh:

[CYAFAA]

Haven't seen it from the inside but a few ex co-workers have and one is still there. We all know there is only one reason controllers stay there and it's not because Serco is such a great people company. It sounds like they are more concerned about sucking up to the ICAA than looking after their own people. Also, they preach safety but if the stories are true about them turning a blind eye to the locals use of electronic devices while working a position, they will have a lot of explaining to do in front of a judge when the big one happens. Serco in the Middle East is famous for talking a good game but producing weak results. The next few months will be interesting to watch as they struggle to maintain their presence in Baghdad. I feel for the guys and gals who might lose their $200,000.00 contracts.

[INTERNATIONALATCO]

SERCO,

You are pathetic................

[CYAFAA]

Wow - check's in the mail, it's a done deal.

I wouldn't be purchasing anything on time payments.

[Vercingetorix]

SERCO
could be behaviour like this cost them the Abu Dhabi contract!:uhoh:

[sandyweazels]

So...umm, you haven't posted the Serco Baghdad Management teams personal details up here yet!? :rolleyes:

We have a long reach from over here as well bro as you would have found out, how about you go and build a really big sandcastle over there on that beach of yours and go and play in it and leave the adults to do grown up stuff! :hmm:

[CYAFAA]

Was Serco able to negotiate a new Baghdad contract? The two month extension is almost up.

[throw a dyce]

As of yesterday not yet.Expires Sunday night so Monday morning could be interesting.:E

[CYAFAA]

So what's the word? Signed, sealed and delivered?

[SAATC]

Has anyone got any info reg Serco takes area controllers for Baghdad? There was an advt in Serco website few weeks back..

[CYAFAA]

Looking at the job description begs the question - how did the incumbent get the job? She must be very talented!

[Vercingetorix]

Sandyweazels, me 'ole China
just noticed your post dated 29th January.
Perhaps what they need is some Karma, I'm told he is very good (?) at matters pertaining to contracts.:eek:

Cheers me 'ole :ok:

[reynoldsno1]

Doesn't Serco have an AIS Manager in Baghdad

Apparently not - they were advertising (yet again) for that position recently, with PANS OPS procedure design experience. I submitted an EoI some time ago through a firm of consultants/recruiters for the position, but got no acknowledgement , nada, not a sausage ...

[Chipmunk60]

I receive a proposal from Serco to AIS Manager in Baghdad, however I didn't take any decision. Anyone could help me in get in touch with some staff working in BIAP? I need to know the conditions of accomodation and specially the security conditions there.

[throw a dyce]

Chipmunk,
Check PM

[CYAFAA]

Chipmunk60

The Serco lifers bleed Serco blood. The rest play the game.

If you have any AIS experience you will be way ahead of the guy that played that role for he last 2 1/2 years. Be prepared to start all over from day one. The incumbent didn't accomplish a darn thing during his tenure. He will go down in history as the biggest scam Serco pulled during their first contract.

Good luck!

PS - be prepared to act as the Serco HR guy on site when HE takes holidays or stress leave. That was the only role the previous AIS guy excelled in. Actually, he did a much better job.

[Chilli Monster]

Ahhh - the Whining Turk who didn't like it when you pointed out he wasn't doing his job properly, couldn't do what you asked when you explained it in words of one syllable, and was very quick to go crying to management when he thought his "Professionalism" was being called into question. Appeared to be a national trait!

Another glowing example of the Baghdad "Appearance is everything, competence comes a poor second".

[CYAFAA]

You wouldn't be referring to a particular blonde??

[Chipmunk60]

I have no problems with my AIS skills, I've been working in AIS almost 25 years.

[Chipmunk60]

I asked Serco to be in Baghdad only in mid September, but Julie Smith (Dubai) told me that they need a person to be there sooner. So I think I'm out.

[Out The Gap]

Hey all,

I see there's a new ad on the Serco website again for ATCOs, preferably with OJTI ratings...or is it exclusively for those with OJTI ratings??

I take it that Serco has won the contract again then..? For how many years?
What's the deal, are the salary/conditions/roster still the same?
Are the vacancies for TWR, APP or ACC.. or all three?
Have you guys finally got your swimming pool and basketball court yet? :cool:
Which Hilton Baghdad youtube video is where you are all residing now?
And has your overall work atmosphere, comradery and opinion of Serco improved or continued to deteriorate, as this whole thread would appear to suggest?

Thanks in advance for providing all the facts... and your opinions :ok:

[CYAFAA]

The contract has not been finalized. Morale is at an all time low. If you're concerned about OJTI or other qualifications, try photoshop. It's been used many times by others that have applied and been hired there as ATCO'S, supervisors and managers.

[Chilli Monster]

Don't forget "Marriage Certificates" and Medicals :)

[CYAFAA]

Next you're going to tell me even after management knew someone lied on their job app, they were promoted and even received the coveted Pulse award. That would mean Serco Foundation Stone Number One is just lip service. No, no, it can't be!

[Chilli Monster]

That'll be the Pulse Award for the so called "Coffee Shop" - "To improve morale".

I never saw a cup from it!

[CYAFAA]

No, but the old, middle and soon to be new, Bosses have.

[hotspot1]

to all in ORBI,

whats the story with the deteriorating security situation at the airport? I see the ISIS forces closing in from the north and west and the Iraqi army throwing in towel and running away, and you guys are stuck out there on the western side of the city. Goodluck with that.
I hope the company has an escape plan for you guys should it get ugly. I would want to be living in approach cell for a while.
Last time something like this came up in Iran many moons ago, the company wanted everyone at their posts. In the end some guys had to make a run for it overland to southern Tehran and cross the Persian gulf by boat.
When they fronted management in AUH they were told they had to go back as they were still on contract.
I am sure we all know what the answer to that one would have been.
Stay safe gents and have a get out of jail plan ready just in case.

[Satellite Man]

Where in Europe can you earn 250k pa right now? I'll jump for it ! :-)

[Kattar Kid]

Where in Europe can you earn 250k pa right now? I'll jump for it ! :-)

Wow!! Do you have even TV or newspapers in your country?:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Satellite Man]

The ironic mode is much appreciated, but... do you mean is it a very high or a very low salary? Could you enlighten us with some newspaper info?

[Kattar Kid]

BBC News - Iraq crisis: Rutba latest western town to fall to Isis (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27960142)
Four western Iraqi towns fall to ISIS militants - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/21/world/meast/iraq-crisis/)
Troops Surrounded, Trapped in Iraq's Key Refinery, Sources Tell ABC News - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/International/troops-surrounded-trapped-iraqs-key-refinery-sources-abc/story?id=24231981)
ISIS In Iraq Claims Massacre of 1700 Soldiers - TIME (http://time.com/2878718/isis-claims-massacre-of-1700-iraqis/)

I think that it will be a good idea for you to read maybe one or two of these links.
The money is good. It is what you may have to face up to that is bad:sad:

[Satellite Man]

Kattar Kid, I didn't mean that but my original question:

"Where in Europe can you earn 250k pa right now?"

[PMS]

I am curious if due to the increased security concerns, has this led to some there, to reassess their situation and pull up stumps??

Is there an evacuation plan in place for staff in case of worst case scenario?

[Captain Charisma]

Check your facts first... you don't earn 250k in Baghdad!

Yes there is an evacuation plan... looks good on paper!

[clipped_wings]

Fingers crossed the evacuation plan won't be needed.

The Tehran evacuation plan was to give the families sub load tickets on British Airways when all flights were booked out. Lucky a BA skipper took heart and they all got out on sitting on the floor.

Hopefully they are better organised these days.

[Vercingetorix]

clipped wings.

Classic.

:ok:

[Hempy]

-$US 1 million/p.a.
-free everything
-personal security detail
-uzi + 5 magazines + ammunition
-bullet-proof vest
-accommodation inside the (protected) aerodrome precinct

No...still wouldn't be enough tbh

Good luck and godspeed to any expats still working there, I hope you gtfo asap if any crap comes down.

[hotspot1]

if we can get back to the question which was raised a few posts ago by PMS,

has this hastened the number of controllers there pulling up stumps? surely those on the ground there are would be aware.

I see that another advert by Serco for controllers in ORBI has appeared so I guess that probably gives another clue.

[Radar Muscle]

I see they are recruiting again. Anyone got info on current terms, application process etc?

[Shorus]

Hi folks,

Same question as above, I see SERCO have again renewed their ad on flightglobal. Anyone have info on the current ToC, roster, anything... ?

[Captain Charisma]

I never understand the reason people ask this forum for employment details which may or may not be correct. If interested why not make contact with Serco and ask them? Alternatively apply and see what happens and make a decision from there.

[Farrell]

"I never understand the reason people ask this forum for employment details which may or may not be correct."

Yup. A PM to those who are there will answer most questions.
Anyone I know who has been there had a good time. Have another friend who started a few months ago and is as happy as Larry.

Farrell

[ATC alert]

There are a number of very apparent reasons SERCO and Baghdad are always advertising!

SERCO's market share of ANS continues to shrink in the Middle East despite all efforts they make to hold onto what they've had.

They have an extremely troubling management/human resources problem within SERCO. The number of front line and HQ managers that have come and gone within SERCO is the past 5 years speaks to the internal troubles of the company.

The woman running the HR in Dubai for ATCO's in SERCO ME has no clue about proper recruiting and hiring practises and until she is gone they will continue to be advertising for applicants.

The Baghdad Contract in particular doesn't compensate enough for the increased risks associated with this location and instead relies on those whose last resort it is to apply for this posting. There isn't enough time off so that you can travel out of the base for R&R between cycles.

My suggestion is wait until another ANS provider is granted the contract for Baghdad and operates it in an entirely different way.