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soullimbo
2nd Dec 2010, 09:09
Source: Luchtvaartnieuws

KLM investigates how Tuesday a Boeing 747-400 could collide with a truck that is used for de-icing of aircraft. The Boeing 747-400 began taxiing while an employee of the de icingtruck was still present de-icing the plane. The de-icing vehicle tipped, and the man fell inflicting heavy injuries.

After the accident a trauma helicopter carried the injured man to the hospital. According to KLM, the condition of the victim 'stable'.

The Boeing 747 became damaged by the collision and is in the hangar for repair. KLM Wednesday made no further announcements regarding the nature and extent of the damage to the Boeing 747-400.

On the plane 240 passengers were present. The Boeing would leave for St. Maarten and Curaçao. There was a delay of 4.5 hours before the passangers could continue their journey.

(Thanks to Google Translate)

=====
AMSTELVEEN - KLM onderzoekt hoe een Boeing 747-400 dinsdagmorgen kon botsen met een truck die wordt gebruik voor het ijsvrij maken van vliegtuigen. Het toestel begon dinsdag op het platform te taxiën terwijl een medewerker van de de-icingtruck nog aanwezig was. Het voertuig kantelde, waarbij de man zwaar ten val kwam. Wat zijn verwondingen zijn, is onduidelijk.


Na het ongeval waren hulpverleners snel ter plaatse. Ook werd een traumahelikopter opgeroepen. Volgens KLM is de toestand van het slachtoffer ‘stabiel’.

De Boeing 747 raakte door de botsing beschadigd en is voor reparatie naar de hangar gereden. Over de aard en omvang van de schade wil KLM woensdag (1 december) geen mededelingen doen.

In het vliegtuig waren 240 passagiers aanwezig. De Boeing zou vertrekken naar Sint Maarten en Curaçao. Met een vervangend toestel kon de vlucht met een vertraging van 4,5 uur alsnog vertrekken.

Checkboard
2nd Dec 2010, 09:56
A sad incident indeed. It is a hazard for winter operations, and at least this one isn't as bad as the Royal Air Maroc incident in Canada:

Transportation Safety Board of Canada - AVIATION REPORTS - 1995 - A95Q0015 (http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/1995/a95q0015/a95q0015.asp)

Good memories
2nd Dec 2010, 11:08
This accident happened in front of our eyes as we were next in line. I had the KLM COO at the time on board and I requested him to come to the flight deck. We were all shocked at what had happened.

The report from the Transport Safety Board of Canada is very accurate report; however I am missing a recommendation.

Make deicing and communications a SOP at all airports worldwide so there can be no misunderstandings.

For those of us who are flying in the Northern hemisphere it may be a frequent event for others not. In adverse weather there are several extra things to check, like take of alternates available, take off performance calculations for contaminated runways etc. If on top of that you have to familiarize with the local deicing procedures and communications this could be too much and lead to accidents and incidents.

Well I hope somebody will read this and finds it worthwhile to work this out, I go back to the garden picking olives who are very early this year in the Provence.



Good Flying!


John

piton
2nd Dec 2010, 22:19
If even KLM crew are not up to date with deicing comms procedures at their home base who would be?

Poor show.

Long Haul
2nd Dec 2010, 23:22
Before jumping to conclusions and blaming the flight crew, keep in mind that it is just as likely that they were given permission to taxi before it was safe to do so. Accidents are caused by a number of factors, and this one will be studied and learned from.

Mariner
3rd Dec 2010, 15:44
I was de-iced @ AMS this morning, on the remote de-icing pad West of the terminal.

The radio equipment that the de-icing coordinator was using was of very poor quality, and barely readable. When we told him so he said it had been reported before, and was being looked into.

Another issue is the procedure requiring you to keep the ground frequency on stand by. With all the calls on ground, you may not hear the de-icing coordinator. This caused a misunderstanding between us and the coordinator. Not that we were about to taxi without being sure they were clear with this incident fresh on our minds, but still.

Room for improvement, there.

Green Guard
3rd Dec 2010, 17:48
If even KLM crew are not up to date with deicing comms procedures at their home base who would be?

Try ask the guys who have much more snow for much longer time...
(but do not blame them for wx)

flyburg
3rd Dec 2010, 20:09
If even KLM crew are not up to date with deicing comms procedures at their home base who would be?

Poor show.

@ Piton

Rumor in the company is that the 74 crew got the all clear signal! Unfortunately the deicer was not out of the way!

Just rumor inside the company, investigation will have to determine what really happened, but, for somebody to make assumptions on the KLM crew......very poor show indeed.

I'll venture a personal assumption: the level of intelligence of people posting on this board is going down dramatically(poor show on my part????)

soullimbo
4th Dec 2010, 20:37
Rumor in the company is that the 74 crew got the all clear signal! Unfortunately the deicer was not out of the way!

Just rumor inside the company, investigation will have to determine what really happened, but, for somebody to make assumptions on the KLM crew......very poor show indeed.

I'll venture a personal assumption: the level of intelligence of people posting on this board is going down dramatically(poor show on my part????)

What's your problem? Rumours are rumours, even at KLM where you guys apparently don't make mistakes. Your post doesn't contribute much either. Keep it factual and I am sure the allegation wasn't addressed at you personally and possibly a harmless shot from the hip.

testpanel
4th Dec 2010, 20:53
Correndon landed on rwy22 in ams, almost hell broke loose.

Everytime Ryan does something "different", they got attacked.

Some carriers are banned from flying into EU cause of their english..(and correctly!)

BUT, KLM cannot even find the runway to take off from from their homebase!
And now they turn the ship and knock a fellow worker in hospital, again on homebase.........

But, sssssstttttt!:ugh:

piton
5th Dec 2010, 00:06
flyburg, my comment was a follow on to Good Memories comment that "If on top of that you have to familiarize with the local deicing procedures and communications this could be too much and lead to accidents and incidents."

For the klm crew this was a home game. If on the other hand, as you suggest, the ground crew gave an erroneous "all clear" then the poor show was theirs. Either way not a good result for the lowlanders.....

darkroomsource
5th Dec 2010, 01:45
I kind of like the idea of moving the truck in front of the plane, and waving back and forth until both understand that the it's all done, then the pilots can watch the truck drive away.

If anyone is in a position to propose this, it might not be a bad idea.

Farrell
5th Dec 2010, 02:25
I kind of like the idea of moving the truck in front of the plane, and waving back and forth until both understand that the it's all done, then the pilots can watch the truck drive away.

A nice idea in principle but logistics get a bit complex if there's a lot of aircraft being de-iced and more than one truck doing it.

(Two trucks / cherry-pickers involved in the RAM incident if I remember correctly)

darkroomsource
5th Dec 2010, 03:16
OK, another idea.
How about any "unit" working on the plane places a cone in front of the plane, then removes it when they leave....

Daysleeper
5th Dec 2010, 06:32
You'd have to place the cone a very long way in-front of any large aircraft to be seen, the cut-off angle from the flight deck is very limiting.

darkroomsource
5th Dec 2010, 06:39
Ok, so it's a flag that's as tall as the flight deck, or twice as tall with flags up and down the pole, on a heavy base that won't blow over, and each unit puts one in front of the plane.

vapilot2004
5th Dec 2010, 06:44
Confirmation of message received. If there are comm problems, you swap out the ground-based VHF. I'm fairly sure the cost of one of those bits is but a small fraction of just one application of the de-ice juice. Also, I've seen handhelds on the tarmac for other purposes. Why not here?

I am not implying we're all perfect by the way. Accidents/incidents are bound to happen given the tens of thousands of movements daily.

NigelOnDraft
5th Dec 2010, 09:01
Post the Anchorage fatality, I now make / ensure is made an extra RT call "Please confirm all Gnd Eqpt is clear". Our QRH does not really emphasise this point, and it can end with the "Eqpt Remove" line merging with he "De-Icing Report" requirement, who can be different people.

Judging by the confusion from my colleagues at my request, it is not a common call made? I doubt a robust SOP can be made to cover all the different airfields / de/anti ice requirements, aircraft types, airlines. However, as this and other accident shows, it is a useful "bottom line" for the aircrew.

NoD

Checkboard
5th Dec 2010, 11:04
I kind of like the idea of moving the truck in front of the plane, and waving back and forth until both understand that the it's all done, then the pilots can watch the truck drive away.

If anyone is in a position to propose this, it might not be a bad idea.
There are a few airports, in Germany and elsewhere, where one of the trucks drives around to the front of the aircraft with a nice big, easy-to-read sign with the de-icing code on it (ie. Start/Stop times, Product, mix ratio). Always clearer than radio, and good confirmation the process is complete. :ok:

Best Practice?

Piltdown Man
5th Dec 2010, 12:30
BUT, KLM cannot even find the runway to take off from from their homebase! And now they turn the ship and knock a fellow worker in hospital, again on homebase.........

Offensive comments such as really have no place on a forum such as this. All departments of KLM take safety really seriously and believe me, many people will be having sleepless nights over this incident. Not because they are fearing for their jobs but because they will be thinking about what they could have done to stop this from happening in the first place. If I'm to speculate, I'll suggest that the OVV will investigate this accident and the results will be published so we can all learn.

Personally, I just wish the poor guy concerned a speedy recovery.

PM

NigelOnDraft
5th Dec 2010, 12:42
Checkboard

and good confirmation the process is completeMay I respectfully disagree 100% := Yes - that does confirm the de-icing is complete... it does not mean there are no vehicles stuck / working behind you in a universal worldwide fashion.

Hence my comment above... to make it more bullet proof, you as crew, insist 100% that you receive a postive radio call/response to "all vehicles and personnel clear". Hate to use CYA, but at least in this case it is also on the CVR :ooh:

NoD

glad rag
5th Dec 2010, 13:14
Obviously, the procedure for ensuring the aircraft was clear of GSE/personnel failed.

Make this procedure more robust & sustainable to prevent a recurrence.

That is what is needed, not a blame game, when peoples lives are clearly at risk.

forget
5th Dec 2010, 14:13
Make this procedure more robust & sustainable to prevent a recurrence. That is what is needed, not a blame game, when peoples lives are clearly at risk.

Well now's the time to propose sensible solutions. Input from pilots, heavies down to commuters, plus the guys who drive the de-icers, could well produce an international standard. The old railway token system is a possibility (but practically - unlikely). Example - If any de-icer working an aircraft had their token in hand then flashing red lights would show ahead of the pilot. The lights would only change to green when all vehicles were clear, confirmed by the drivers plugging in their tokens to an 'off area' token plinth. As de-iced aircraft moves on tokens are removed from plinths and lights change to red for next aircraft to pull forward - to lights.

Needs some refinement - but ........ any other ideas. Only simple ideas that aren't affected by blocked radio transmissions etc.

darkroomsource
5th Dec 2010, 19:53
There's clearly a disconnect between the flight deck and the ground crew.
I'm thinking that getting representatives from both groups together is critical, as stated above,and that there should become an international standard.

But I think the first thing that needs to be expressed to the ground crew is that the flight deck can't see below them, to the left, to the right, or behind.... the flight deck can't see if anyone is in/around the aircraft.

Interestingly, this is not a problem backing out of the gate because someone is driving the push-back cart and they can see all around the aircraft.

So we're going to see this problem occur during de-icing more than anywhere else, when the de-icing is not happening at the gate - and maybe that's why some airports went to gate de-icing in the first place - if the de-icing is taking place at the same location in the taxi then there could be a "supervisor" in a jeep who drives in front of the plane and moves only when it's all clear.

At any rate, there needs to be a standard in place the prevents this type of thing from happening again. It gives a really bad impression to the public when a plane runs into the ground crew at 2 miles an hour.

jackx123
5th Dec 2010, 23:21
No remorse....who requested de-ice????

It's like Christmas, it happens every year.....same time and plenty of time to prepare for the next and the next and the next.........

Feel sorry for the guy in hospital though

Piltdown Man
6th Dec 2010, 10:45
Moi/, there should be no need as there is already someone in such a position. The set up at AMS for remote de-icing is that the pad supervisor is in contact with the rigs, de-icing control and the aircraft. He is also mobile (small Mercedes 4x4) and from that position, should be able to determine that all de-icing trucks are clear. On completion of de-icing, you are told the start of your holdover time, the fluid/s used and the last phrase normally uttered is "...and all de-icing vehicles are now clear. Please re-contact Ground for taxi."

What is unclear is what knocked the truck over. Was it the tail or was it jet blast? Either way, the de-icing truck was vulnerable as soon as it had completed it task.

PM

Ex Cargo Clown
6th Dec 2010, 11:53
I think the simplest answer is that in de-icing areas you have a stopbar operated by the de-icers.

And I know that people will say that lighting should only be controlled by ATC, but I know at Tulla behind the Menzies cargo shed, we could control airfield lighting.

Food for thought.

Waspy
7th Dec 2010, 11:07
In CDG, one of the de-icing trucks in front of the A/C keeps its crane right in front of the cockpit windows (2 meters or so). I mean right in front of your nose ! It is impossible to start taxiing before de-icing supervisor declares the area clear of personnel/vehicles. Then only the crane is removed from view... This makes de-icing ops a little slower than e.g. in scandinavian countries but is definitely safer. FFT.

MISSED APCH
7th Dec 2010, 13:09
bid deal,
someone almost got killed. who knows he couldve gotten stuck in the flaps and got a free ride to st.maarten.

in any ways, it's a sad incident,.. in now way able to blame the cockpit crew in such stupid ways as i read above..., cause in those pilots minds, they are not moving until receiving a all clear from those guys out there.
if they didnt get it and they moved, it was an honest mistake by the crew.
if they got the all clear and they moved and hit the guy, it was an honest mistake the ground personnel.
either way its a mistake that happened.
let the investigation clear it out and dont hate the klm game, cause it's a solid game!
now suck it:D

PiG
7th Dec 2010, 14:28
I was told by a trusted ( trustable ) source the crew finished de-icing, and went beyond the safety line(s) so the AC could depart. As it did, unfortunately turning right too quickly or too sharply hitting the truck with the rear stabilo.

I found below references made / distributed by ATCBox member Curly

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/curly30/Picture006.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/curly30/Picture005.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k215/curly30/DSC_5224.jpg

Stop Stop Stop
11th Dec 2010, 15:47
Lots of talk about cones, trucks, people etc. being placed in front of the aircraft whilst de icing takes place. Would it not be simpler to place chocks under the nosewheel which are only removed by the supervisor once all vehicles are clear? That way, even if the crew start to move too soon, they won't be going too far!

Mike-Bracknell
11th Dec 2010, 16:19
How about doing away with trucks altogether, and have a fixed gantry under which every aircraft passed as part of the taxy. Since there's a mandated maximum width of aircraft, then having a gantry wider than this with downward facing sprinklers below it would enable aircraft to be fully de-iced both wings at a time without fear of missing a wing or missing a section. Traffic lights on the gantry would allow control. Would eventually be cheaper than vehicles as well, and would be yet another aide-memoire for those trying to take off from the taxyway too.

jackx123
11th Dec 2010, 16:50
Some 20 years ago, unsure where the de-ice truck was, the skipper asked me to go out in the cabin to visually check (looking out of the windows) if I could see it.

The brain is an amazing thing, with almost unlimited powers.......if used

forget
11th Dec 2010, 17:30
.... fixed gantry under which every aircraft passed as part of the taxy.

Even better.............

http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/resources/PDFs/GT-S05_aircraft_deicing.pdf

darkroomsource
11th Dec 2010, 18:34
Lots of talk about cones, trucks, people etc. being placed in front of the aircraft whilst de icing takes place. Would it not be simpler to place chocks under the nosewheel which are only removed by the supervisor once all vehicles are clear? That way, even if the crew start to move too soon, they won't be going too far!
Not a bad idea, but I can't just hear it now
"Keptin, I'm givvin her all she's got, but she just won't move!"

Full Power Taxi

Stop Stop Stop
11th Dec 2010, 19:14
"Keptin, I'm givvin her all she's got, but she just won't move!"



Might give you a clue though!

Checkboard
11th Dec 2010, 19:26
Actually, rolling over a set of chocks is pretty easy. :ouch: Takes nothing like full power ...

Ex Cargo Clown
11th Dec 2010, 22:16
Even better.............

http://www.energysolutionscenter.org...ft_deicing.pdf

You have to be joking. This sounds like the idea of a sixth-former as a college project.

I'm not going to even begin to go into the reasons of why it is a bad idea, but my God is it a bad idea.

forget
12th Dec 2010, 08:59
I'm not going to even begin to go into the reasons of why it is a bad idea, but my God is it a bad idea.

Please do.

Alber Ratman
12th Dec 2010, 09:14
Because you infra red system has absolutey no anti icing properties. Once the aircraft is towed out of your bay, it will ice up again almost immediately..:E

strake
12th Dec 2010, 09:23
How about an extra person out up front of the aircraft, who is a safety man & also an aircraft marshaller.


At AMS last Saturday, where we we had to sit on the ground for three hours in a snowstorm, that was exactly the procedure once de-icing started. I even have a picture but don't know how to post it....

forget
12th Dec 2010, 09:33
Ex Cargo and Albert, You need to call the FAA tomorrow; and the guys who are wasting $$$$$ on this hare-brained scheme. :hmm:

Sunday, December 12, 2010

Radiant Aviation

Radiant Aviation Services, Inc. has developed, patented and sells the world’s only infrared alternative to traditional glycol-based aircraft deicing. Radiant deicing systems are fully approved for use in the United States by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

Radiant’s patented technology was developed in cooperation with the FAA in the mid-1990’s. Radiant facilities are currently installed and operating at New York’s JFK airport, one of the busiest international gateway’s in the world and at Wisconsin’s Rhinelander airport, serving the general aviation and regional airline community.

Home | IR Deicing | Radiant Energy Corporation (http://www.radiantenergycorp.com/)

New Kid
12th Dec 2010, 10:23
Thank you Mr PiG for those pictures.

This confirms my thought on the incident.

Standing at that platform I recall it being really difficult, with all the bright beams out to facilitate the de-icing crew in their job of getting the ice/snow off, to distinguish the taxiway lay-out in front of the cockpit with the sea of green and blue lights/refelctors.

You actually have to taxi quite a distance straight ahead before you're even close to any taxi way, however an airport perimeter road you have to cross to get there actually looks like a taxiway as well. And, believe me or not, to make a turn into that perimeter road you have to turn as you're leaving the platform. Hitting everything with your tail.

Now, I don't think the crew left for the airport to go around injuring ground crew that day. And most probably it was the crews first actual de-icing is a decade or so. And that West platform is also of quite recent origin so they've probably never been there in the first place.

No complacency but Murphy. Could've happened to anyone.

I do accept the fact it's rather interesting to see another dent in KLM's sometimes a bit arrogant attitude of their reputation. It's keeping them sharp. H*ll, it's keeping everybody sharp.

I hope for a speedy recovery of that poor chap.
Smooth landings,
NK

Ex Cargo Clown
12th Dec 2010, 17:16
Ok reasons it is not a great idea.

The various Glycol solutions are designed to "stick" to the aircraft after de-icing, hence why you have a holdover time, if you just remove the ice then you are asking it to be re-iced, with no protection.

Would you really want to take an aircraft for a 15 minute taxi which is perfectly clean of ice but has no ice protection in conditions along the lines of M01/M00 +SN or M06/M06 FZDZ

I also would like to know the effect this will have on fuel, electronics etc, chemical de-icing is fluid adiabatic process. Heating the aircraft on the other hand will increase pressure, according to Charles's Law. I'm not sure I would fancy that on an aircraft with full fuel tanks....

It's de-icing on the cheap, that's all it is.

forget
12th Dec 2010, 17:29
Ok reasons it is not a great idea. ... Glycol solutions are designed to "stick" to the aircraft after de-icing ... if you just remove the ice then you are asking it to be re-iced, with no protection.

Ex Cargo, What is a great idea is to read stuff before you launch into criticising that same stuff.

Significantly reduces, and in some cases, eliminates, the use of glycol-based deicing fluids.

Mad (Flt) Scientist
12th Dec 2010, 17:32
In addition to the fact that infra red deicing (of whatever form) has zero anti-icing properties, it's not even 100% effective for de-icing. Our advice for our types using it is:

When using infra-red energy to de-ice, wet surfaces
will require an application of heated de-icing fluids to
prevent refreezing after the removal of the infra-red
energy source.

When required, for operation other than frost or
leading edge ice removal, and when the OAT is at or
below 0 C (32 F), an additional treatment with hot
de-icing fluid must be done within the infra-red facility
to prevent refreezing of water which may remain in
hidden areas.

Its certainly no solution for the problems of having de-icing trucks near aircraft.

Ex Cargo Clown
12th Dec 2010, 17:46
Significantly reduces, and in some cases, eliminates, the use of glycol-based deicing fluids.

I'm really struggling to understand the point of it then, so it de-ices the aircraft and then you have to apply glycol to keep it anti-iced when that would have done just as good a job to do de-ice it :confused:

I don't buy the environmental angle either, glycol is easily either decomposed or recycled, all's you are doing with this vast IR array is creating a load of CO2 and depleting fossil fuels.

Green Guard
12th Dec 2010, 17:50
Heating the aircraft on the other hand will increase pressure, according to Charles's Law. I'm not sure I would fancy that on an aircraft with full fuel tanks....


One of us must be a clown here, and if we know "Charles's Law", then we don't know much about the airplanes...not even about a full car-fuel tanks...

Mad (Flt) Scientist
12th Dec 2010, 17:52
ECC

I'm really struggling to understand the point of it then, so it de-ices the aircraft and then you have to apply glycol to keep it anti-iced when that would have done just as good a job to do de-ice it

What it saves is the bulk of the de-icing application if using a two step technique.

Using fluids alone, you'd use hot type I or hot water to remove the contaminant, then Type II III or IV for anti-icing protection.

With infra-red, you can remove most of the contaminant without using Type I - our recommendation is for just a light spray of Type I after the IR has done its thing. You'd still need Type II III or IV for anti-icing.

The biggest advantage is when you're dealing with overnight frost, and the conditions are otherwise good. Then you just need the IR and can skip the second step. No fluid used.

Incidentally, anti-icing fluids aren't as good for de-icing (much more expensive, too) and in one-step operations you don't get the full benefit of the properties of the anti-icing fluids.

Ex Cargo Clown
12th Dec 2010, 18:15
One of us must be a clown here, and if we know "Charles's Law", then we don't know much about the airplanes...not even about a full car-fuel tanks...

Don't worry, I know about both, and I understand with increased pressure you have the tank venting it, I wasn't suggesting you would have a complete catastrophe or anything of the sort.

In essence the idea is akin to a giant toaster, It just seems that it is using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. If overnight conditions are conducive to frost, but >0 temperatures are expected by departure and frost is expected, then just throw a thin insulating sheet over the wings the night before, that is teathered down. Then anti-ice it properly the next day.

sleeper
12th Dec 2010, 19:02
then just throw a thin insulating sheet over the wings the night before, that is teathered down.


On B747's and the like? You must be kidding!

Mike-Bracknell
12th Dec 2010, 19:09
Its certainly no solution for the problems of having de-icing trucks near aircraft.

Maybe, maybe not.....but I think my original idea of the gantry (or the hangar as in the infra red idea) is a winner, irrespective of whatever's used inside it :)

soullimbo
14th Dec 2010, 08:02
New Kid

I do accept the fact it's rather interesting to see another dent in KLM's sometimes a bit arrogant attitude of their reputation. It's keeping them sharp. H*ll, it's keeping everybody sharp.

It's not in the category of mistakes such as taking of from a taxiway or taxiing into a new passenger terminal or taxiing into a grass mower which KLM has done in the past. In this case the crew was not in a good position to avoid this incident. Just very interesting to find out where the communication process things were assumed which should have been checked. As said, the crew is in a difficult position unless they decide to check for themselves, but most of us aren't that paranoid.

Anyway, I just hope the crew had the decency to visit the poor chap in hospital.

Piltdown Man
22nd Dec 2010, 16:18
...the poor chap in hospital.

A chappette actually, who was helping the company out during the deicing season. Apparently she has two smashed vertebrae and is recovering. I understand that she was in the KLM holding pool and was soon to join as pilot. I hope that this will still happen for the poor girl. And I'm sure that the crew will visit her, if they haven't already done so. These guys are human after all.

PM

V&I
6th Jan 2011, 15:29
No the girl was actually the supervisor of the spot that day (not a aspirant pilot), the guy in the safearo (closed basket 1man oprating vehicle) was pulled over by the horizontal stabilizer. The KLM crew of that day is not to blame, they had no way of knowing it was not clear, other then phisically checking from the cabin. The captain visited the operator in the hospital a few days later and the whole KLM crew signed a card and send him flowers. He is actually home and recovering pretty good.
It was a really busy that day and workload was high. It was a combination of factors which caused this accident, as always. It remains work by humans, mistakes are made, just like the taxiway incident of KLM. It's sooo bizar thinking that someone could ever make such a big mistake like that, that you just dont calculate on it happening.

About the IR deicing. It could work when there is no precipitation. Normally a 1step method is used in such conditions. This means A lot of HOT water (80C/176F) and a little bit of type 1 fluid (normally about 30%, depending on OAT) just to make sure that the water used for deicing wont freeze up again.
Type1 has no deicing function (in this way) it is only the hot water and the force with which it is applied, which clean the wing of any conatminations.

Then there is any form of precipitatio, freezing fog or cold soaked wings, a 2 step method is used. Which means first cleaning the wing with Hot water and a bit of type 1 (as discribed above) and then the second step, which is 100% Cold type 2. This is a much thicker fluid (like a blanked) and is designed to protect the wing against contamination (time depending on OAT and type of precipitation), this fluid will fall of during raotation of the aircraft, or at least it is designed to.

Glycol is not very harmful to the environment, the only thing is, it subtracts oxygen out of water, so all life in the water will die.

andrasz
7th Jan 2011, 08:00
Glycol is not very harmful to the environment ... only ... all life in the water will die

I belive the United Crayfish & Burrowers Union will beg to differ...

Swedish Steve
8th Jan 2011, 10:01
Just a comment on infra-red deicing.
There is an installation at OSL airport. A B737 sized hangar with no doors. It was abandoned after a short trial period. The infrared worked well, but left water on the wings so a truck was required to spray deicing fluid afterwards. So the aircraft had to taxi into the hangar, then taxy to the deice pad for spraying. It just took too long and wasn't practical.

ATCast
13th Mar 2012, 10:22
The final report was published two weeks ago.
Dutch version: (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/index.php/onderzoeken/botsing-met-de-icing-truck-2010088/)

English version (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/index.php/onderzoeken/botsing-met-de-icing-truck-2010088/) is not available yet.

Improved Google translation of the conclusions:
The accident occurred as the plane began to taxi while the deicing vehicle was still in front of the left horizontal stabilizer.

The supervisor had reported to the flight crew that the deicing was completed while this was not the case. She had lost the overview and the deicing vehicles for the horizontal stabilizer were overlooked.
Contributing factors were that the supervisor was inexperienced in her duties and did not sufficiently master her work. She had little experience in the
use of the communication devices. The communication equipment performed faulty at times which, together with the advice to increase efficiency of the deicing process, increased the workload for the supervisor.

During her training, the supervisor was not sufficiently supervised and she did not receive 'on-the-job ' training in deicing of aircraft. Her first deicing treatment on the J platform, was carried out without an [experienced] escort with her in the car. In view of the vital role of the supervisor in the deicing process, this is an undesirable situation.
New employees, especially those without operational aviation background, should be better supervised during the training. Providing customized training depending on background and experience [of the trainee] is desirable.

A weak link in the de-icing process is that releasing the airplane after deicing
is done by a single person only.

Bigbluebroxi
28th Mar 2012, 16:13
And then yet more ground handling jobs down the tubes.

Edit: Tried to quote and made a hash of it, reply in refrence to suggestion of automated traffic light deicing sytem