China Needs Experienced Expat Captains

[FWRWATPLX2]

China needs experienced expat Captains, due to phenomenal growth in the Aviation Industry.

I have been employed, in China, as a Boeing 737-800/700 Captain 3.5 years, for Shanghai Airlines.

China has been good to me.

Google:
Brookfield Aviation - David George
Direct Personnel - Shane Pollard or Claire Doyle
IAC - Roy Wheatley
PARC Aviation - Padraic Toolan
Rishworth Aviation - Kim Bell

Get your logbooks up-to-date, police clearances, no accident/incident report, before you entertain applying . . . as the paperwork processing required takes time, but not as much, if you are prepared. Maybe took me three months. If you do not have ICAO English Level 4 or Level 6 appended to your ATPL, get it before you come.

The ATPL Written Exam does have a 70% failure rate, so you must study. This is not an all expenses paid holiday. Come prepared.

The Simulator Assessment is straight forward: Crew Resource Management and Resource Management -based, expect Stall Series, Steep Turns (suggest using FPV on the horizon, make it easier on yourself), Cabin Altitude Warning/Rapid Decompression/Emergency Descent, Visual Pattern with Strong Crosswinds (given in Meters/Second), Normal ILS (hand flown, with no Flight Director), Non-precision Approach (hand flown no Flight Director), maybe an N1 Overspeed during takeoff, Low Speed/High Thrust Reject, Reject near V1 or a second afterwards, Engine Failure or Engine Fire After Takeoff, expect same during Go Around, especially if you are flying a four engine aircraft, expect Hydraulics system failure and manual gear extension or alternate flap extension (give yourself some extra time), expect Windshear on approach or on takeoff, expect some reason to land immediately and do an Evacuation. All standard stuff.

The rest is up to you. If I could do it, anyone can.

READ YOUR CONTRACT CAREFULLY. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK FOR WHAT YOU ARE WORTH. BE SURE EVERYTHING YOU ANTICIPATE YOU WILL WANT OR NEED IS IN WRITING. THE TIDE IS TURNING IN OUR FAVOR. DEMAND FOR PILOTS IS HIGH, GLOBALLY, sick economy or not.

REMEMBER, AVIATION SAFETY MUST COME FIRST -NO COMPROMISE. I DON'T COMPROMISE ON AVIATION SAFETY NOR COMPLIANCE WITH CAAC AIR LAWS NOR BOEING PROCEDURES NOR MAINTENANCE STANDARDS.

Good luck.

[Iwasoneonce]

I believe the medical is a bit like the Sim session, a bit OTT. Like all these countries.

[Nightrider]

Reject near V1 or a second afterwards and that is All standard stuff.:rolleyes:

[Colocolo]

[QUOTEMany bad and good reviews on this forum about airlines and brokers.
Some true some not.][/QUOTE


Agreed.......And I would add a very well honed sense of humor to bravery ! :E

Colocolo (also on my 5th year in China)

[ReverseFlight]

FWRWATPLX2 / VRSCSE2 / Colocolo : It's good to hear that China offers a good career for at least some pilots.

My question is : did you all start in China as experienced typed pilots ? Or did you have to accumulate hours first ? Would instructional experience gained at a flight school in China improve chances for making the leap into Chinese airlines ?

Any relevant advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Colocolo]

My question is : did you all start in China as experienced typed pilots ? Or did you have to accumulate hours first ? Would instructional experience gained at a flight school in China improve chances for making the leap into Chinese airlines ?


- Yes, I was Typed rated and had more than the required PIC time the airline minimums.
-I have no insight on the benefits of instructing for a flight school in China, seems to me (probably off the mark) that "connections" or "Guanxi"(sp) is what gets you into an airline as an new FO or cadet.:hmm:

Cheers

Colocolo

[etops777]

Starskate

Have you tried Air Asia out of Luala Lumpur? Depending on your qualifications they might offer you a Captain position on A320.

Few of my friends were hired as a Direct Entry Captain without being a Captain before.

[paokara]

As a 737NG captain with 12000 and 500 pic on the 800 what kind of money should I excpect.....any idea

[ishi59]

if they're that short of crew, should it not be a case of setting the price they must pay, not asking what they offer.

come on guys, if there is such a shortage, the pilots should be setting the price, after all, YOU are SELLING them a service!!!!!

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[kotakota]

Yeah , they REALLY need us , especially us over-55s who are treated like lepers. ageism lives BIG time in East Asia . I am an ex -MAS Captain ( 737 ) with a Malaysian ATPL , lots of local knowledge , deep love and respect for Malaysia , but still treated like ..... at least India are sensible. I thought China and their neighbours had deep respect for older people , well certainly not in aviation.

[hongkongfooey]

The Simulator Assessment is straight forward: Crew Resource Management and Resource Management -based, expect Stall Series, Steep Turns (suggest using FPV on the horizon, make it easier on yourself), Cabin Altitude Warning/Rapid Decompression/Emergency Descent, Visual Pattern with Strong Crosswinds (given in Meters/Second), Normal ILS (hand flown, with no Flight Director), Non-precision Approach (hand flown no Flight Director), maybe an N1 Overspeed during takeoff, Low Speed/High Thrust Reject, Reject near V1 or a second afterwards, Engine Failure or Engine Fire After Takeoff, expect same during Go Around, especially if you are flying a four engine aircraft, expect Hydraulics system failure and manual gear extension or alternate flap extension (give yourself some extra time), expect Windshear on approach or on takeoff, expect some reason to land immediately and do an Evacuation. All standard stuff.


And the funniest thing ? there would be less than 10% of local pilots that could pull that off :yuk:

[etops777]

And the funniest thing ? there would be less than 10% of local pilots that could pull that off

Mr.HongKongfooey

how do you know??

[NZ X man]

"The Simulator Assessment is straight forward: Crew Resource Management and Resource Management -based, expect Stall Series, Steep Turns (suggest using FPV on the horizon, make it easier on yourself), Cabin Altitude Warning/Rapid Decompression/Emergency Descent, Visual Pattern with Strong Crosswinds (given in Meters/Second), Normal ILS (hand flown, with no Flight Director), Non-precision Approach (hand flown no Flight Director), maybe an N1 Overspeed during takeoff, Low Speed/High Thrust Reject, Reject near V1 or a second afterwards, Engine Failure or Engine Fire After Takeoff, expect same during Go Around, especially if you are flying a four engine aircraft, expect Hydraulics system failure and manual gear extension or alternate flap extension (give yourself some extra time), expect Windshear on approach or on takeoff, expect some reason to land immediately and do an Evacuation. All standard stuff." "

IS IT MY IMAGINATION. or is not this all standard issue simulator stuff that many of us have been doing for decades? I had to read it twice to make sure It was something, and it was the usual issue simulator stuff for MOST jet aircraft, both airline and corporate.

[duyentranvan]

how much are they paying captains on the A330? I have 13000hrs on the A330 and 7000hrs on the A320. Please advice

[fatbus]

13000 hours on thw 330 !!! 7000 on the 320 OMG where did you get all the hours at age 46

[filejw]

Guys come on I'm sure the 13000 is a misprint but 7000 on the 320 at 46 is not usual. I have friends at 45 or so with close to 10000 on the 320. Of course that's all they have flow in the airline world.:O

[Slasher]

DuyenVT is just a ****-stirrer. Ignore him and he'll go away.

[de facto]

12-17K USD net.

[CokeZero]

For the sim assessment - that's a lot to fit into a two hours session. Even when we do that for our 6 monthly checks we spread it out over 2 days. And what standard do they want after you're rung yourself out over this session? Hmmmm. And is it two different standards? This is China remember.

[de facto]

Isnt it the standard you set for yourself that is important?
They expect from expat captains to follow their regulations and Sops,have a positive attitude in flight,not to have unstabilised approaches,and for selection: handle a single engine raw data,loss of both generators(APU inop) to a landing(ILS),strong crosswind landing,usual hydraulic loss/flaps assymetry/disagree,emergency descent and standard VOR/NdB procedural approach followed by loads of single engine visual circuit to land.


This without having repetitive GPWS warnings during the exercise.

If you cant do that,maybe your captaincy is not worth the pay package:E

[CokeZero]

de facto

agree with you on your standards however what standards are the chinese trying to set?

one standard for the expat captain and another for their local captains? and it does show. certainly within my previous airline. if they are trying to upgrade their own standards then do so but not with a job interview.

are they trying to weed out everyone to make their own captains look good? another possibility.

[kwaiyai]

And what about the Chinese FO who smoke on the flight deck and complain
to there respective CP if you dont like it on top of that DE Facto?

[GoForIt]

I go to Beijing about once a month. ATC is terrible due mainly to terrible English proficiency of controllers, and the use of Chinese with Chinese pilots most of the time so that the rest of us don't know what is going on. Having to convert every altitude assignment from meters to feet and having multiple step down altitude assignments combined with terrible English proficiency and challenging communications really does significantly increase workload and negatively impact safety.

This article is interesting on the corporate side, and the quote from an informed Chinese professional at the end of the article says it all:

Chinese millionaires' sky-high ambitions - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/12/05/China.jet.private/index.html?hpt=C1)

[tcas69]

GoforIt:
going there properly prepared an approach into PEK is not worse than CDG or MAD. Part of the communication is in a foreign language and we won't change that .
Copi/CPT smoking? All depends on your CRM abilities ;-))
If I am in a good mood I visit the toilet in the meantime, if not, no smoking rules exist in any Chinese Airline (AFAIK)

[fatbus]

Was in PEK a couple weeks back area controller needed some work but the App guy was very good

[GoForIt]

going there properly prepared an approach into PEK is not worse than CDG or MAD. Part of the communication is in a foreign language and we won't change that .
Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Been to both of those airports many times as well as the rest of the EU. China is it's own animal. The quality of ATC you get from day to day varies widely. One day I was working with an American Approach controller, and then was handed off to a tower controller that was almost impossible to understand. As the Chinese girl quoted in the article referenced admitted, "Chinese aviation is 30-40 years behind the US."

[buswind]

From Experience stay way from Brookfield, worst of the worst. They only look after the interest of the airline and not you.

[GoForIt]

From Experience stay way from Brookfield, worst of the worst. They only look after the interest of the airline and not you.

This is true of ALL the contractors. Who pays the contractor? Who is their customer? It isn't you. They look after the interests of the one paying their fees.

The only contractors I know who have a very good reputation are the ones who limit their clients to those few airlines that take good care of their pilots.

[flareflyer]

Hello gents,

I am thinking of applying to airchina as cpt on the 330.
They offer base in europe.
Is there anybody out there that can give me some more infos?

Thanks

Flare

[Tommy Tilt]

May I ask, does "going there properly prepared" apply to Chinese crews?
You may care to view the YouTube link below to example the Chinese definition of "prepared" and their sham English Level 4 qualification.

YouTube - Funny Air China And JFK ATC- Kinetic Typography-AntonyTh (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC0XOqlogyg)

Of course, those of you in China will not be able to view this YouTube link due to censorship/control issues - "control" being the key word!

TT

[tcas69]

In my post I referred to ATC communication and I stand by my comment that it is comparable to going into SVO,MAD;CDG not that I think the additional workload is making it safer.
Concerning the abilities of my fellow pilots to express themselves in English:
Some of them are eager to learn, some of them are indifferent , some don' t care. There are great guys here and then there are others, like everywhere.
But most of my colleagues come from military background or flew only domestic up to a few years back and did not have to know English (hard to believe). Now (older) Captains,who do not pass the test, are gradually kept out of PEK airspace and sent to the provinces (dont think that helps that much) but PEK and Shanghai sectors should gradually become English only. Thats the plan...but then we are in China....
And youtube...got to wait for my next sector,you are right:ouch: