Air Asia Expands in Australia

[Skynews]

I note Air Asia is starting flights from Darwin - Bali, and connect on to the rest of asia.

I picked a random date and compared with Jetstar, Air Asia $70 AUD Bali Darwin
Jetstar on the same day $189.

Air asia Bali Singapore $80 AUD. This should liven up the market.

So Darwin Bali $70 each way
Bali to Phuket $115 return
three flights Bali - Singapore $80 each way. Other destination ex Bali include jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok. They sent me an email a few days ago advertising Kuala Lumpur - Paris $163 AUD.

If you look at their established routes and they maintain these ridiculously low fares.The world’s best low-cost airline is now flying Darwin to Bali. And we are so excited about delivering Top End service, we are offering a great launch fare from AUD99. So, like 100 million passengers have done before, you can now grab low cost, high quality airfares to Bali, then even springboard from Bali to KL, Singapore, Bandung, Jakarta, Phuket or Bangkok.

Darwin, a new gateway to Bali and beyond. They quote $100 AUD here, however when I checked it was $70 including taxes, either way, a good deal.

[fender]

Sure will liven things up, J* can get lil starving biafrans to crew the flights for a crew meal and bottle of water.

[Skynews]

They already employ them don.t they?:E :E :E

I havent travelled with Air Asia, I know a few QF engineers that use them throughout Asia, and they seem to be extremely happy with whats on offer. :ok:

[hongkongfooey]

Air Asia's product 5hits all over jokestar.
Price generally far better, cabin crew actually friendly, oh and a new thing out called reclining seats ( Jokestars new a/c do not have reclining seats, I hope the few dollars saved makes up for the loss of punters ), and Air Asia's premium economy extremely good value for an almost lie flat bed :ok:

[FR8R H8R]

Air asia is all cheap and friendly until any sort of holiday approaches. Prices go through the roof at school holiday, c-mas and so on. I reckon they're still better than jetstar, but keep in mind the pilots are indons and i think everyone knows that nation does not have the greatest safety record. :sad:

How much is it worth to you to have an aussie crew is what you should be asking yourself when booking your tickets.

[Skynews]

A Jetstar 150 hour pilot or an an experienced Indo for my money.

How does Air Asia's safety record compare with that of Jetstar?

[Sunstar320]

How does Air Asia's safety record compare with that of Jetstar? AirAsia have had their fair share of incidents. Mainly hard landings and tailstrikes, the majority of their crew are fairly low houred, especially on the 330. They pay pretty poor too, about 45k FO/85k CAP (aud).

Pretty sad when some Cabin crew there earn more than the pilots...:hmm:

[Skynews]

Pretty sad when some Cabin crew there earn more than the pilotsunfortunately that happens in Australia.

So they both have low hour pilots, they have similar safety records, so unless people are saying that only Aussie pilots are safe, go Air Asia I say.How much is it worth to you to have an aussie crew is what you should be asking yourself when booking your tickets.

Not as much as it used to be. I feel comfortable in a QF passenger seat, that does not include QLink, the rest I rate similar to Asian LCC's.

[b_sta]

At least as far as product and service quality is concerned, Air Asia is undoubtedly a level above Jetstar, also.

[neville_nobody]

They pay pretty poor too, about 45k FO/85k CAP (aud)

Depending on which country you live in that is actually a good salary.

Air Asia pilots don't spend $80 000 plus on training 2+ Years in GA working for below average national salaries then pay $10000 for a turboprop job then $30 000 for a jet endorsement either.

Was funny to see the jaw drop on some our flight attendants when they first saw the Air Asia uniform:}

[Worrals in the wilds]

AirAsia have had their fair share of incidents. Mainly hard landings and tailstrikes, the majority of their crew are fairly low houred, especially on the 330.

Purely personal opinion, but I've seen them in action and thought they had a worrying case of Get-There-Itis on a couple of weather related occasions. On the other hand, they got there in the end and they have a good rep for service and advising pax about what's included in the price, unlike a number of LCCs (oh, you want an aircraft with two wings? That'll be an extra $20 :E).

To pinch a bayou expression, ya pays yo' money and ya gets yo' chance :confused:. Many 'dubious' carriers (both LCC and full cost) have no trouble attracting pax and don't pretend to be anything other than cheap 'n' dodgy. I've no problem with that, but a big problem with carriers that trade on their reputation for being safe and honourable while using the same cost saving practices as their cheap 'n' dodgy rivals. Just my $0.02.

J* can get lil starving biafrans to crew the flights for a crew meal and bottle of water.

That's funny. Designer bottled water or just the home brand stuff? :}

[Whatsit Doingnow]

How much is it worth to you to have an aussie crew is what you should be asking yourself when booking your tickets.
absolutely nothing....the asian cabin crew are far more friendly and accommodating and easier on the eye, and as for tech crew....well , for some reason a lot of aussie pilots seem to think they are the only ones who know how to fly an aeroplane......

[Icarus2001]

How much is it worth to you to have an aussie crew is what you should be asking yourself when booking your tickets.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/44964/e00012_001.jpg
http://www.aviationteamwork.com/dvds/images/an1.jpg

Good question.

[gobbledock]

C`mon Icarus2001 ! Just some scratches really, AN undercarriage collapse and a QF overshoot, no problem.
Now quickly delete pic number 2, I can hear Big Trev screaming already !!

[startingout]

Having witnessed the outcome of the training for Air Asia first hand it should be considered lucky they they have expat captains. Logging 200hrs and flying 670 does not put out a pilot who can find their way even VFR around Malaysia, someone getting lost barely 15nm north of Ipoh when they have spent the last two hours looking out the plane window is rather tragic, especially if they have are they to provide some form of first officer role in the jets when the **** hits the fan. (there are currently I believe 950 FO's like this in waiting, cpl in hand and itching to get into the red craft)

On a side note, is it possible and practical to fly the a320 single pilot in the event of crew incapacitation/incompetency?

[MrWooby]

Whatsit Doingnow, yes asian pilots can fly, but the biggest difference between asian pilots and western pilots (aussies and the rest) is that a western pilot will speak up if something is wrong. Western pilots dont have the loss of face crap that permeates asian culture. Just look at the the recent crashes in indonesia and india where the FO has allowed the captain to crash and kill people ! Any low time western FO faced with the same situation, would tell the captain to go around, and if that doesn't occur within a reasonable time frame he would takeover and fly the go around himself. It also carries on to weather incidents at destination, a western pilot if he cannot get in from minima legally will divert, whereas the asian pilot, not wanting to incur loss of face and pressure from management from not landing at destination will push the limits, to ensure he gets in ! I just cannot believe people consider what the flight attendant is wearing and saving 50$ as more important than their lives.

[Neptunus Rex]

These cheap fares can be very misleading. I have to fly from an Asian port to London, then on to Kent, so I checked the fares on the Internet.

Air Asia cost $1,180. That was before added costs for meals and drinks. It also involved a long stopover in KL and arriving at Stansted at an ungodly hour.

The Gulf carriers were slightly cheaper, but with full service included, two-hour stopovers and arrival at Gatwick or Heathrow.

Finally, I checked my local National Airline, which is a very good in terms of safety and service. $866, direct to Heathrow arriving at breakfast time. Also, a pre-booked car to take me from Terminal 4 across London to my destination doorstep, a lot less than from Stansted (where's that, Guv?) No contest!

[peuce]

Air asia is all cheap and friendly until any sort of holiday approaches. Prices go through the roof at school holiday, c-mas and so on.

Unlike in Australia

.. but keep in mind the pilots are indons

Actually, it's a Malaysian airline and you often hear Aussie/ South African and British accents giving cockpit announcements.

Also, from my experience with them, the cabin crew are much more safety thorough than what I've experienced on QANTAS. Anything out of place or anyone doing the wrong thing and they jump on it straight away.

I enjoy having the option to .. buy food, or not .... buying an exit row, or not .. and I've never been stranded at an airport by them. All things considered, I'm quite comfortable in continuing to fly with them.

[FR8R H8R]

Sure is a lot of oz bashing here. Ok, qantas may blow a hole in the fuselage or have an engine fail but how many pax have they killed?

Jetstar service is absolutely horrible, without a doubt. The non reclining seats are on par with ryan air. But, again, how many times have they bought the farm?

Finally, peuce, you are incorrect. QZ is an indonesian company. They fly the DPS routes, not AK which is Malaysian. There are very, very few expats at QZ, if any at all. Maintenance in indo is a corrupt eyewash of falsifications.

So, basically, guys here think an asian tart in a short skirt and a reclining seat are important? What about the twin stripe FO who's corrupt father bribed someone to get his license?

Enjoy the nasi goreng lads. :ok:

[domaus]

My friend is travelling Boxing Day to Phuket from Brisbane. All flights are around $2000 at lease one way (busy time).

We found a way though to do it on the cheap:

Brisbane - Darwin VB (staff pass)
Darwin - Bali Air Asia
Bali - Phuket Air Asia

All coming to under $300AUD!

Even Tiger ex PER via SIN was $1500 one way!

All flights have a wait of four hours before the next (which is probably wise anyway) but for someone when money is an issue I think we did well getting her on her way. V Australia staff travel was capped for around this date so I couldn't put her on a direct flight for the way there. Pretty annoyed as there's seats but they won't tell me how many staff are booked/what the cap is. Unnecessary secrets, would've saved me time trying otherwise :ugh:

I would certainly use Air Asia between Bali and Phuket - 2 holidays in one! Well done Air Asia (to the rescue)!

[psycho joe]

Ok, qantas may blow a hole in the fuselage or have an engine fail but how many pax have they killed?



I think that should be in their advertising campain.

[Skynews]

Air Asia pilots are not undercutting their country men in a race to the bottom for conditions nor standards, unlike some Aussie pilots.
Sure is a lot of oz bashing here. Ok, qantas may blow a hole in the fuselage or have an engine fail but how many pax have they killed?

Jetstar service is absolutely horrible, without a doubt. The non reclining seats are on par with ryan air. But, again, how many times have they bought the farm?

Finally, peuce, you are incorrect. QZ is an indonesian company. They fly the DPS routes, not AK which is Malaysian. There are very, very few expats at QZ, if any at all. Maintenance in indo is a corrupt eyewash of falsifications.

So, basically, guys here think an asian tart in a short skirt and a reclining seat are important? What about the twin stripe FO who's corrupt father bribed someone to get his license?

Enjoy the nasi goreng lads.


And what's the difference with the modern Australian Airlines, QF sacking engineers for writing up believed problems, Jetstar employing the Asian tarts with no reclining seats, low time pilots ego DO NOT speak up in Aussie cockpits, geez even the government is starting to recognize the current low standards that the likes of Jetstar are encouraging. Did you see the today show this morning, re sacking pilots due speaking up.

I will travel Air Asia in preference to Jetstar any day, even if there more expensive, which is unlikely.

[topend3]

We found a way though to do it on the cheap:

I found a good way to get to Bali cheaper ex KTA :

Airnorth to Darwin (via Broome) $325
Air Asia Darwin to Bali $169

Was going to cost about $800 going via Perth

The connection time isn't great, into Darwin at 2140 and out at 0445 the next morning, but maybe the Discovery nightclub will be open...:ok:

[Skynews]

Port Headland to Bali return with Skywest is only $502, surely you can get to Port Headland return well under $500, if not its only about 200km drive

[blow.n.gasket]

I've heard that you can't get much cheaper than back load passage on one of those people smuggling boats !:eek:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Yeah but the service makes even Jetstar look good (well reasonable, anyway :}).
On a positive note you'll get plenty of Customs and Immigration officers attending your arrival, unlike the major airports' 1:10,000 officer/pax ratio.

[topend3]

Port Headland to Bali return with Skywest is only $502, surely you can get to Port Headland return well under $500, if not its only about 200km drive

agree, great if you just want to go to bali but if you want to go other places you have to return to phe to pick up the car :}

[Skynews]

Catch a taxi or hire car to phe, $500.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

The race to the bottom..... of the ocean.

[MONK]

Hmmmm......Did the qantas f/o speak up before the captain over ran the runway in bkk?....

You think asians are the only one with face saving problems?....what a load of bs....

[#1AHRS]

Air asia is all cheap and friendly until any sort of holiday approaches. Prices go through the roof at school holiday, c-mas and so on. I reckon they're still better than jetstar, but keep in mind the pilots are indons and i think everyone knows that nation does not have the greatest safety record.

How much is it worth to you to have an aussie crew is what you should be asking yourself when booking your tickets.

Hah, if Australian aviation serviced a population of 250 mill over an archipelago that actually had some hills, volcanoes and weather other than the norm of 8/8 blue, would the records be any different?

[MrWooby]

Monk, read the report about what actually occured before you comment. Yes it was a **** up but loss of face had nothing to do with it. Having taught many asians to fly, I can say with fact that loss of face is a major problem with asian pilots. Its ingrained in their upbringing and culture from day 1.

[MONK]

MrWooby

I agree asians do have face saving problems....but my point is....asians are not the only ones with that problem.....I've flown with many different nationalities.....and they all want to save face.....its just asians are more obvious.....

[neville_nobody]

Looks like their Australian flights were advertised a wee bit early..............

Just a small matter of regulatory approval to sort out.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/holidays-thrown-into-chaos-after-airasia-cancels-direct-bali-flights-20141227-12eac5.html

Holidaymakers have had travel plans thrown into disarray after budget airline AirAsia X cancelled direct flights from Melbourne to Bali with only days' notice.

The Malaysian airline was forced to cancel the flights after it failed to gain approval for the new route, which was due to start on December 26, from Australian and Indonesian aviation authorities.

Passengers received text messages on Christmas Day notifying them that flights from Boxing Day onwards had been cancelled and they would instead be flown to Bali via Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Passengers received text messages on Christmas Day notifying them that direct flights from Boxing Day onwards had been cancelled and they would instead be flown to Bali via Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

The new route stretches a six-hour journey out to 13 hours and some travellers will arrive a day later than expected, leaving pre-booked accommodation wasted and forcing some to miss family weddings.

Melbourne woman Angela Menz was due to fly direct to Bali at 6.30pm on Saturday, only to learn she would not depart until 1.45am on Sunday.

"On Christmas Day I got a text to say the flight had been changed and that it was now going via Kuala Lumpur," Miss Menz said.

"I'd pre-booked my hotel accommodation and paid for it and airport transfers, so that's all gone to waste.

"We were originally arriving just after 10pm tonight, but now I'm not arriving until the next day at midday."

When Miss Menz, who was travelling to Bali for a one-week holiday with her boyfriend, called the airline, she was told the last-minute change was due to an "administrative issue".

She said she chose to fly with AirAsia after it had heavily advertised direct flights.

Other passengers took to the airline's Facebook page to vent anger over the disruptions.

"Thankyou for wrecking our family Christmas and my daughters wedding (sic)," Julie Chumbley wrote.

"My daughter is due to be married on the 28th dec 2014 in bali and my daughter in law is a bridesmade and my son is walking her down the isle.

"This was until you changed my daughter in laws and sons Direct flight from the 27th dec 2014 to leave on the 28th dec with a stop over in kuala lumpa in which they will miss the whole wedding!!"

Another passenger, Melissa Cook, posted: "It's 1.45am, Xmas morning & I've just received a text advising that my direct flight tomorrow morning (26/12) has been cancelled!!!!

"Advertising was fierce for sucking Australian consumers into thinking that you would really be flying Melbourne to Bali direct from 26/12!"

Passengers do not yet know if return flights will go direct to Melbourne or via Kuala Lumpur.

An AirAsia X spokesman said the flights were diverted because of "an unforeseen delay in the approval process for necessary documentation."

The spokesman said the airline was working with relevant authorities, including Indonesia's Directorate General of Civil Aviation and Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority, to complete the required documents for the flights to go ahead.

"Indonesia AirAsia X will commence the direct return flight from Denpasar to Melbourne as scheduled as soon as this process has been completed," he said.

The airline would not reveal how many passengers had been affected.

In November it emerged that in the first nine months of 2014, the Malaysian carrier had lost $96 million before tax in the Australian market.

The airline announced three weeks ago that it would discontinue direct flights between Adelaide and Kuala Lumpur.

AirAsia has been contacted for comment.

[RENURPP]

How much is it worth to you to have an aussie crew is what you should be asking yourself when booking your tickets.

Not a great deal anymore.

[Australopithecus]

It's your future...I am seeing...fines. Hefty ones levied by the ACCC for selling routes for which you had no approval.It seems that Air Aisa X bought themselves endless bad press, full reimbursements for costs and I am sure at least one punitive case. Excellent work AAX*

*or whatever the hell the IATA code is for Air Asia X Indonesia**

** Now there's a name that just reeks of quality:}

[Pappa Smurf]

"the airline didn't reveal how many passengers had been affected"

They would have hoped for a full load,but maybe not all that good.

[HeSaidWhat]

The ACCC won't even be interested, Austra.

These tickets were sold under the rider "subject to regulatory approval", which is a common practice for new starters, or incumbents starting new routes. So the ACCC's response would (and should) be "buyer beware".

[training wheels]

If I remember correctly, Jetstar did the same many years ago when they were about to start International flights to Bangkok. They started online sales of tickets months in advance of launching. I was sitting on the edge of my seat hoping that they would get the regulatory approval before my departure date which was around Christmas time, and sure enough they did.

I'm not surprised Indonesia Air Asia is having a longer than expected delay in getting their approvals, especially if the delay is due to the Indonesian regulator. Having spent a considerable number of years dealing with Indonesian bureaucracy myself, there will always be hurdles to overcome for no apparent reason. wink wink ... :ouch:

[Oakape]

You get what you pay for.

[Fuel-Off]

Speaking of...news just in.

Air Asia flight from Indonesia to Singapore loses contact with air traffic control: media (http://www.cnbc.com/id/102297363)

Think that paperwork delay might take a bit longer now...

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Gas Bags]

I have flown as a passenger on Air Asia around 50-60 times and apart from their early days when I sat on some pretty sad old 737-300's my experience has been near enough on time in near enough brand new A320's every time I have flown with them, for a very reasonable price.

[Cost Index]

Oh dear :(

[Tankengine]

Very sad.:sad:

Unfortunately the public largely buy on price, experience in the cockpit takes time to achieve.:hmm:

[titan uranus]

Let's not lower ourselves to hanging the pilots with no facts.
Picture yourself in an organisation that loses a frame - and try to imagine how who'd feel reading dribble like this from Aussie "experts"...

[Soteria]

That **** Geoffrey Thomas is all over the WA news at the moment sprouting so-called words of knowledge and understanding about the missing A320. Perhaps he can assist the Singaporeans with the search? I'm not going to dignify that fool by posting any links to his dribble.

[AEROMEDIC]

Thomas thinks that the pilot may have "blundered" into a thunderstorm. As usual, no help at all except to the media who are desperate for information from anyone.
Surely there must be some REAL experts out there to keep the media on the straight and narrow!
It would be nice for a contribution from someone who as had relevant and recent experience flying in this area.
Even I, have had experience flying in this area, but not recent and not relevant aircraft either, so I wouldn't proclaim to be an expert.

[JustJoinedToSearch]

Nope. I chucked CNN on when I heard about this and it was just total nonsense. Including a 10 minute interview with "aviation expert" GT.

[SOPS]

We need to start some sort of appeal to shut that GT person up.

[Metro man]

Air Asia says missing jet asked to 'deviate' due to weather - Channel NewsAsia (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/air-asia-says-missing-jet/1553204.html)

JAKARTA: Air Asia said the pilot of flight QZ8501 that went missing between Indonesia and Singapore early Sunday (Dec 28) had requested "deviation" from the its flight plan because of bad weather.

"The aircraft ... was requesting deviation due to enroute weather," the Malaysia-based carrier said in a statement posted on its Facebook page.

"Communication with the aircraft was lost while it was still under the control of the Indonesian Air Traffic Control (ATC)."

UPDATED STATEMENT FROM AIRASIA AT 1.23PM:

"AirAsia Indonesia regrets to confirm that flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore has lost contact with air traffic control at 7.24 (Surabaya LT) this morning. The flight took off from Juanda International Airport in Surabaya at 5.35am

90"The aircraft was an Airbus A320-200 with the registration number PK-AXC. There were two pilots, four flight attendants and one engineer on board.The captain in command had a total of 6,100 flying hours and the first officer a total of 2,275 flying hours
"There were 155 passengers on board, with 138 adults, 16 children and 1 infant. Also on board were 2 pilots and 5 cabin crew.

"Nationalities of passengers and crew onboard are as below:
1 Singapore
1 Malaysia
1 France
3 South Korean
156 Indonesia

"At this time, search and rescue operations are being conducted under the guidance of The Indonesia of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). AirAsia Indonesia is cooperating fully and assisting the investigation in every possible way.

"The aircraft was on the submitted flight plan route and was requesting deviation due to enroute weather before communication with the aircraft was lost while it was still under the control of the Indonesian Air Traffic Control (ATC).

"The aircraft had undergone its last scheduled maintenance on 16 November 2014. AirAsia has established an Emergency Call Centre that is available for family or friends of those who may have been on board the aircraft. The number is: +622129850801.

"AirAsia will release further information as soon as it becomes available. Updated information will also be posted on the AirAsia website, www.airasia.com."

- AFP/CNA/by

[YPJT]

GT is not alone jumping onto the soapbox and touting himself as an all knowing expert. It appears the other individual quoted in the article (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/lost-airasia-flight-qz8501-may-have-stalled/story-fni0fiyv-1227168772433?sv=f4dc912230ffb810bb35abf440c5d4e1) has little more experience than loading cargo into the hold.

[Centaurus]

From another aviation "expert" on the ABC.


"There are two pilots on the flight deck and one would hope that a distress call could be sent out, even in in such an extreme emergency.

"If they were using all their arms and legs to try to save the aircraft, they simply may not have had time to do it."

[Anthill]

In an extreme mental overload, getting out a mayday would be unlikely. I think that history attests to that.

[maggot]

Well yeah, and...
1. Aviate
2.navigate
...
And *lastly*........

Pretty sure every one of us had this drilled into us

[KrispyKreme]

Yep got to love the so called self-proclaimed experts, i am sick of it too, GT is just a reporter, he has never Flew or Fixed aircraft. All it takes is someone with more experience then him too stick it too him on air and shut him up for good.

I have to give CNN credit, they actually had a B777 Captain on there chatting about the incident with Air Asia and i think he was there during MAS incidents too. It was refreshing to have someone on that knew what they where talking about :ok:

[73to91]

The guy who was interviewed on the ABC (in Oz) who I saw was Péter Marosszéky.

A little bit more experience than GT, looking at this:
Péter Marosszéky | www.wiseheads.com.au (http://www.wiseheads.com.au/listing/contact-a-wise-head/peter-marosszeky)

I recall also seeing Trevor Jensen on the telly discussing the MH disappearance. It would appear that Ch 7 are happy to stick with GT just like AJ is happy to have him speak about QF on his behalf when required.

[PW1830]

Impressive resume but not too impressive when interviewed. Out of his depth completely.

[mudguard01]

Its driving me nuts seeing this GT being interviewed as an Aviation Expert.

This is the same guy that went on Youtube and stated that he was sitting in a B777 simulator in Perth and this was the only B777 sim in Australia (apparently the one in Silverwater NSW does not exist) Then commenced the take off with the park brake on...

There is no way a professional pilot is going to make comments without facts in this case.

To 73to91 your comments are spot on.

[Sarcs]

PW - Impressive resume but not too impressive when interviewed. Out of his depth completely. PW perhaps it is all in the editing or maybe Péter Marosszéky just comes across better in the written word...:rolleyes:

Either way I noticed that Fairfax media felt Marosszéky was credentialed enough to be quoted several times in their article - AirAsia flight QZ8501: faces from a lost flight (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/64627914/AirAsia-flight-QZ8501-faces-from-a-lost-flight):
AirAsia flight QZ8501: faces from a lost flight

As authorities work to solve the mystery of the plane that crashed in a violent storm, the family of a young flight attendant on board approach their loss with calmness.

MICHAEL BACHELARD, PANGKALANBUN, AND MATT O'SULLIVAN

Last updated 05:30, January 3 2015

http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/2/g/q/q/k/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.12h77u.png/1420239044844.jpg
Lost: Khairunisa Haidar Fauzi, a trainee flight attendant on AirAsia flight QZ8501.




The only job of Khairunisa Haidar Fauzi was to make her customers feel calm, comfortable, fed, slept and pampered.

This beautiful, 20-year-old Sumatran-born trainee flight attendant was just one member of a massive and growing industry that delivers the comforts of the lounge room to millions of travellers who now jet unworriedly around the globe.

But outside the windows of AirAsia's flight QZ8501 from Surabaya to Singapore early last Sunday morning, some of the most awesome physical forces on earth were brewing in the tropical sky. And, if the latest surmises are correct, despite every engineering marvel and innovation of modern aviation, these forces were conspiring to hurl the Airbus A320 violently to the sea 36,000 feet below.

Khairanisa's body, identifiable from the red-and-black uniform she was wearing and which still bore her name tag, seems to be one of the first to have been pulled from the ocean near where the plane carrying her and 161 others fell that morning. She has now been formally identified, Fairfax Media has confirmed. Her family will fly her body to Palembang, South Sumatra, for burial.

Her father, Haidar Fauzi, has been preternaturally calm about the tragedy that befell his daughter. "We knew the risk our daughter was taking with this job," he says, "so we're prepared."

The risk of flying identified by this bereaved Indonesian villager is something the airline industry is keen to downplay. The might of human ingenuity and technology has focused on reducing aviation's dangers to virtually nothing. But still, according to industry consultant Gerry Soejatman, risks exist.

"As comfortable as we are, and as safe as the statistics are, flying is inherently risky," Soejatman says.

"We rely on the training and the safety systems that have been developed over the years; that's what makes it safe ... and it is safe. But if we are careless, we have to remind ourselves that it is dangerous to fly."

One key danger is the cumulonimbus clouds that develop in the tropics during the monsoon season which, with their huge uptake of water into the atmosphere, drive global weather patterns.

"They can be extremely powerful [and] can overcome the aeroplane; we've know that for years, so there's nothing new. If they hit a cumulonimbus cloud then they're screwed."


Peter Marosszeky, an aviation specialist fellow at the University of NSW, recalls flying a Boeing 747 jumbo many years ago that plunged more than 30,000 feet after hitting an air pocket.

"The smaller the aircraft, the more prone it is to suffer serious control conditions where the pilot can lose control of the aeroplane," he says.
Even so, on early evidence that Soejatman has seen of what happened to QZ8501, the violence of this storm was extreme. It seems to have tossed this 70-tonne, $US90 million marvel of engineering and polymer composites like a toy into the sea at a sense-defying 24,000 feet per minute.

"It didn't fall out of the sky like an aeroplane," Soejatman says. "It was like a piece of metal being thrown down. It's really hard to comprehend ... The way it goes down is bordering on the edge of logic".

That several other flights were in the area at the time and reached their destinations unscathed only deepens the puzzle.

Forensic examination

The crash of AirAsia flight QZ8501 on Sunday in the Java Sea capped off a horror year for airlines based in Malaysia. It began with the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 on March 8 – a mystery that still has not been solved despite an Australian-led search of thousands of square kilometres of the southern ocean.

This was followed by the shooting down of another of its Boeing 777 aircrafts over war-torn eastern Ukraine in July with the loss of all 283 passengers and 15 crew on board.

At least this week, the families of the victims of the AirAsia flight have a chance to find closure. Their plane has been found, though weather has made it hard to get to the wreckage. Nevertheless, much remains to be explained.

The immediate task for Indonesian investigators will be to retrieve the vital flight-data recorders from what remains on the sea floor of the Karimata Strait. The "black box" – which is actually brightly coloured for visibility – will play a key role.

The plane lies in relatively shallow water of about 50 metres, a far less onerous recovery task than the one confronting authorities searching deep water for Malaysian Airlines Flight 370.

The AirAsia A320's cockpit voice recorder will contain up to two hours of recordings, which will allow investigators to listen to QZ8501's 53-year-old Captain Iriyanto and first officer, Frenchman Remi Emmanuel Plesel.

But it is the flight data recorder that holds a larger wealth of information, with up to 72 hours of flight time information about the plane's engine settings, air speed, positions of flight control and altitude.

Investigators already have information from air-traffic control such as voice and radar recordings – particularly from the Mode S transponder system – as well as the weather on the day of the crash from meteorologists.

"The key will be to find those recorders, download them and then see what they tell you. They effectively guide the investigation," Australian Transport Safety Bureau spokesman Joe Hattley says.

"You don't know where you are going until you get good data."
Soejatman says forensic examination of the plane's fuselage, or the remnants of it, will also provide important clues as to the forces that were acting upon it.

Airbus' single-aisle A320s are designed to withstand forces 1.5 times what they would usually encounter in abnormal weather, giving them a significant protective buffer from changes in climate patterns. The plane manufacturer declined to comment on specifics about the AirAsia crash because an investigation is under way.

In the case of QZ8501, Marosszeky says the AirAsia captain seems to have found himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. Iriyanto, a former Indonesian air-force fighter pilot, sought clearance to climb from 32,000 to 38,000 feet to avoid a storm cell, but did not respond to air-traffic controllers when they gave clearance for a climb to 34,000 a short-time later. The pilots never made a mayday call.

"It appears that he was picked up by an updraft or a clear-air turbulence, which caused the aeroplane to go vertical. That argument is born out by the fact that air-traffic control had noticed that his air speed had really died off," Marosszeky says. "If it did in fact go into stall, then the pilot would have had a lot of trouble getting out of it. You would have to be extremely experienced. But we really don't know precisely what caused it."

Marosszeky says that in most cases pilots can avoid flying into dangerous conditions. "In this particular case, I am a little bit surprised that the aircraft took off and flew into these known conditions," he says.

Computer systems and the latest technologies on-board modern aircraft give pilots a "infinitely larger scope of information". The downside, Marosszeky says, is that aeroplanes have become so complex that pilots have to be astute and highly disciplined to cope with the technological marvels.

He points out that the challenges confronting the pilots of Qantas flight QF32 in November 2010 when their A380 suffered a mid-air engine explosion was a classic example of "how a complex machine can almost cause the aeroplane to crash and burn". Disaster was averted, and the plane was able to make an emergency landing at Singapore without physical injury to passengers or crew, because five experienced pilots were on board.

"If you had lesser pilots with lesser experience you would have a disaster on your hands," he says.

Safety record

The demands on air-safety investigators are enormous in the aftermath of a major crash. The clamour for answers has been exacerbated in the era of social media and 24-hour news, which produces a torrent of often unfounded, but firmly expressed, speculation about the causes of a crash.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation, a part of the United Nations, requires a preliminary report within 30 days of a major incident and a final report within a year. The task of delivering a report within 30 days is made even harder when the vital data recordings take some time to be recovered.

While Indonesian authorities have been praised for their speed and transparency in locating debris from the AirAsia plane, the crash has shone the spotlight on the populous south-east Asian nation's aviation safety record. The US Federal Aviation Administration lists Indonesia as one of nine countries which fail a safety assessment.

European authorities have also banned a long list of Indonesian airlines from flying to Europe due to safety concerns. While Indonesia AirAsia, an offshoot of AirAsia founder and chief executive Tony Fernandes' Kuala Lumpar-based company, was once banned, it has joined flag carrier Garuda and three others in gaining the right to fly to destinations in Europe.
Soejatman says that, though Indonesian aviation has had a patchy record, he is confident that it's improving. On a vast, mountainous archipelago, with appalling road infrastructure and a minimal port network, air travel is growing as fast as the burgeoning Indonesian middle class can afford to buy a ticket to destinations in both their own country and others.
Between them, privately owned Indonesian carrier Lion Air and AirAsia have ordered more than 800 aircraft – one of the fastest growths of an airline capacity at any time in history. Indonesia's air traffic has increased five-fold since 2004 and now they country's airports, particularly the chronically clogged Soekarno-Hatta in Jakarta, are reaching the limits of their capacity.

Even so, Soejatman says the country is slowly sorting out its problems. The number of accidents is falling each year and the rate per million passengers has seen "a massive reduction".

The challenge is to keep that going despite the ongoing growth in the number of planes in the air and the massive demand for a limited global pool of pilots, engineers and crew.

With the grim task of recovering the bodies of passengers and crew still under way, this crash presents AirAsia chief executive Tony Fernandes with one of the biggest tests of his career.

His $1 investment in an airline with just two planes in 2001 has grown to span Asia with a fleet of almost 170 aircraft. It has carried almost as many passengers as Indonesia has people.

Similar to Jetstar, AirAsia has adopted a strategy of expanding by setting up affiliate airlines such as Indonesia AirAsia in which the central company has a minority stake – but management control – to get around regulatory barriers.

But the quickest way for an airline to go bust is to suffer a fatal plane crash. Malaysia Airlines' loss of two Boeing 777 aircraft in 2014 effectively resulted in the need for the Malaysian government to bail it out.

So far Fernandes has played his hand well – he appeared at the scene of the tragedy and in front of bereaved families; he apologised, promised to pay virtually open-ended compensation and to fix any problems the investigation finds. But his troubles were compounded on Tuesday when an AirAsia plane overshot a runway at Kalibo in the Philippines, forcing passengers to use emergency slides.

"You have to be a very big airline to survive an accident," ATSB spokesman Stuart Godley says. "Any significant accident has bankrupted most airlines, and it is really only the big airlines that have survived."

In the short term Fernandes, who has had many fleeting talks with successive Qantas management teams over the years about alliances, has insisted that bookings on AirAsia flights remain strong. He has tweeted numerous pictures of happy customers, and expressions of support, since the crash.

Australia's largest travel company, Flight Centre, doubts the tragedy will curb consumers' appetite to travel.

Australia and International Pilots Association treasurer Adam Susz also points out that the A320 aeroplane – a workhorse for airlines such as Jetstar and Air New Zealand – is one of the most popular and reliable in the world. "We want to reassure people that flying is an incredibly safe activity and events like this [AirAsia crash] are incredibly rare," he says.

It's both true and reassuring, though it offers no consolation to the families of the 162 passengers and crew who were killed going about their business on the morning of December 28.

For some, perhaps, particularly in Muslim-majority Indonesia, consolation may only be sought where Khairunisa's father, Haidar finds it.

"We only borrowed our daughter from God," he says serenely. "And now he has taken her back."
- Fairfax Media Australia Well done the three mentioned Journalist's that contributed to this article...:D:D Gives me some hope that the true art of responsible, factually correct and credible journalism has not been totally lost in the 24/7 MSM scramble for the next cr:mad:p sound-bite emanating from the likes of a shonk like Geoffrey Thomas...:yuk::yuk:

[PW1830]

Mr Marosseky mis quoted again. Those pesky airpockets. Lost 30000ft ??He was flying??


"Peter Marosszeky, an aviation specialist fellow at the University of NSW, recalls flying a Boeing 747 jumbo many years ago that plunged more than 30,000 feet after hitting an air pocket."


If a flight never took off when thunderstorms en route or Cat forecast the skies would be peaceful.In 45+ plus years I managed to avoid dangerous conditions completely. Challenging sometimes but thats the job.
"Marosszeky says that in most cases pilots can avoid flying into dangerous conditions. In this particular case, I am a little bit surprised that the aircraft took off and flew into these known conditions," he says.

[dr dre]

"Marosszeky says that in most cases pilots can avoid flying into dangerous conditions. In this particular case, I am a little bit surprised that the aircraft took off and flew into these known conditions," he says.

According to his profile that 73to91 posted, Peter Marosszeky has spent years working in the engineering, teaching, management and regulatory aspects of aviation, so his word should be trusted on that.
But he has never been employed as a commercial airline pilot, or even has a pilot's licence (according to the profile), so it is beyond his knowledge to judge what a pilot should or should do with regards to diverting around storms.