View Full Version : Sandtoft - Worrying news
Phli4fun
24th Nov 2010, 13:24
From Notams today
EGCF (SANDTOFT)
Q) EGTT/QFALC/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5334N00052W005
B) FROM: 10/11/24 08:44C) TO: 11/01/01 09:00
E) AD CLOSED
NorthSouth
24th Nov 2010, 18:17
Oh dear. Anyone know what's happening?
NS
flybymike
24th Nov 2010, 23:17
Somehow I don't see them reopening on new year's day....
bingoboy
25th Nov 2010, 21:11
with no info forthcoming I hope it just means they are going to be unlicenced
It'll reopen Next week Licensed.
birdman69
27th Nov 2010, 09:11
The current lease holder has transferred 52nd Street Aviation operations to Doncaster Airport. His lease terminates at Sandtoft on Tuesday 30th November and then its time to return it back to its former self. Watch this space after then.
Phli4fun
27th Nov 2010, 18:02
7of 9 and Birdman 69 thanks for the reassurance. Let's hope Sandtoft emerges better than ever.
I wonder what 52nd Street will do for customers, have any Sandtoft club members been approached with a view to renting at Robin Hood?
I certainly haven't yet.........
Genghis the Engineer
27th Nov 2010, 20:12
I was speaking to a Sandtoft insider today who told me that this is basically a glitch over a breakdown of trust between the airfield owners and the departing airfield tenant. He runs a business there, and seemed confident that the place will be back to normal early in December, albeit operated by the owners rather than tenant.
G
flybymike
27th Nov 2010, 22:30
I wonder what 52nd Street will do for customers, have any Sandtoft club members been approached with a view to renting at Robin Hood?
If it is less hassle (and cost?) to run a GA business from Doncaster airport than Sandtoft airfield, what does this tell us about business in general at Doncaster?
niknak
28th Nov 2010, 11:07
I know nothing about the folk who run Sandoft, but renting space at Donny is no different from basing at any other airport.
The leases on property owned by Robin Hood will almost certainly require a credit check, planning approval from the local authority where necessary, approval from the site owner for the type of business you want to run (to avoid a conflict of interest), a fairly hefty deposit (usually 3 months rent) and quarterly rent in advance.
Then all you have to do is make a living out of it...
NorthSouth
28th Nov 2010, 12:04
If it is less hassle (and cost?) to run a GA business from Doncaster airport than Sandtoft airfieldSurely a very very big "if", for one simple reason - security and airside access.
NS
L'aviateur
28th Nov 2010, 12:19
In the past the previous operators of Sandtoft before 52nd Street Aviation (New Sandtoft Aviation if I recall), operated from Doncaster as well with two permenantly based aircraft.
I actually found flying from Doncaster excellent, the rates were the same except for the landing fees, and the service was great from ATC. A very easy place to operate from.
The tenants/operator at Sandtoft seem to change hands every few years!
L'aviateur
28th Nov 2010, 14:19
The best chance for Sandtoft is it becomes an aeroclub operated by the members for the members with a committee. Nikki running the place, would keep it all together. The costs would come down, and the benefits and sense of ownership by the members would go up.
Phli4fun
28th Nov 2010, 14:23
I wonder what 52nd Street will do for customers, have any Sandtoft club members been approached with a view to renting at Robin Hood?
To answer my own question, I have now been approached by 52nd Street Aviation to join them at Robin Hood. I guess all ex-members who are on the database will have been similarly contacted.
Phli4fun
28th Nov 2010, 14:32
The best chance for Sandtoft is it becomes an aeroclub operated by the members for the members with a committee. Nikki running the place, would keep it all together. The costs would come down, and the benefits and sense of ownership by the members would go up.
I'm no expert in business or the running of an airfield but what would be simpler than for the airfield owners to put the current airfield manager in as their manager and cut out the middle man.
dontbeadingbat
28th Nov 2010, 17:31
I think that you will find that you are still a member of 52nd Street Aviation, but have absolutely no ties with Sandtoft Airfield. It looks pretty obvious to me that the flying school has simply moved premises, therefore the school hasn't really changed.
If an ex-employee (ie. Nikki) tried to poach customers would this not be a bit dodgy legally?
birdman69
28th Nov 2010, 19:06
The loyal customers are approaching Sandtoft staff to return the airfield to a club that works in the best interests of its members. No poaching required.
Phli4fun
28th Nov 2010, 21:06
I think that you will find that you are still a member of 52nd Street Aviation, but have absolutely no ties with Sandtoft Airfield. It looks pretty obvious to me that the flying school has simply moved premises, therefore the school hasn't really changed.
If an ex-employee (ie. Nikki) tried to poach customers would this not be a bit dodgy legally?
Since it's the anniversary of the lease being taken, I assume it's also the anniversary of the start of everyones membership as well, which means memberships will just be lapsing. So it's just a case of making a personal decision of where to put next years subscription money.
Since 52nd Street are now contacting old customers, I guess the new managers of Sandtoft don't have access to the old membership database, so it would be difficult for any 'poaching' to happen. Sandtoft won't know who their customers will be until they pitch up at the counter.
I've been flying out of Sandtoft for 10 years and loved every minute whether flying or just sat wishing I was flying, and in that time there has been at least 5 different operators.
So, whilst I'm no longer a member at 52nd Street I still have 'ties' to Sandtoft as long as flying continues there. I'm sure there'll be others like me.
dontbeadingbat
28th Nov 2010, 21:17
I'm not too sure on that one. I joined the school in april and i'm pretty sure that my membership runs untill april '11 because everyone has a different renewal date. I'm gonna stick with the school to see how it all works out. I quite fancy having a play with that huge runway anyway!
birdman69
28th Nov 2010, 23:30
I think Phli4fun says it all. People have an affinity with Sandtoft not the operator. It has many benefits which those that have flown from Sandtoft appreciate. Sadly the last lease holder had problems with many people and tried to convert it from a flying club to a disco with flashing lights and wall mounted TV's etc, which is his stock in trade. Many good long term members resented this and voted with their feet. So maybe it's time to restore it back to a friendly (new kitchen staff) and welcoming place that offers flying at an affordable rate with pleasant people who are passionate about flying, are pleasant to deal with and care about their customers.
KarlwithaK
28th Nov 2010, 23:52
Its interesting dontbeadingbat (posts 2 joined Nov 2010) is so defensive about 52nd Street move to Doncaster. Mr Ramsden tried this when he moved from Sheffield. Car parking problems, no 100LL fuel (who pays for the fill up trips?) and strict security checks before you got onto the apron were all problems experienced when Mr Ramsden ran the school at Doncaster. These were not problems that you came across at Sandtoft. For cjboy the cost of the runway resurfacing was met by the airfield owners not the person leasing the airfield.
dontbeadingbat
29th Nov 2010, 16:56
And so the traditional witch hunt begins. I today spoke to the CFI who assured me that AVGAS is readily available and in stock, so there would be no fill up trips. Apparently car parking is free so it sounds quite good to me.
Before people start throwing accusations around they should probably think a bit more. I've not been flying that long so havnt been at Sandtoft for years like some of you claim to have been. The move means it is a much shorter distance for me to travel and all my questions have been answered well by the club. I honestly cant see why people want to constantly put others down. Aviation is my hobby, just like it is yours and the club have never been anything but good to me. So please stop all the back-stabbing. We all want the same thing in the end - to fly.
Phli4fun
29th Nov 2010, 21:34
And so the traditional witch hunt begins. I today spoke to the CFI who assured me that AVGAS is readily available and in stock, so there would be no fill up trips. Apparently car parking is free so it sounds quite good to me.
Before people start throwing accusations around they should probably think a bit more. I've not been flying that long so havnt been at Sandtoft for years like some of you claim to have been. The move means it is a much shorter distance for me to travel and all my questions have been answered well by the club. I honestly cant see why people want to constantly put others down. Aviation is my hobby, just like it is yours and the club have never been anything but good to me. So please stop all the back-stabbing. We all want the same thing in the end - to fly.
dontbeadingbat
I've just re-read this thread and can't for the life of me see anything that could be construed as a witch hunt or backstabbing, just, perhaps, slightly different points of view to your own. I hope everything works out for you at DSA, but I'm also looking forward to Sandtoft bouncing back.
Mr E Pilot
30th Nov 2010, 01:20
Just been reading the posts here.
No one poaches me!! I'll make my own mind up, thanks.
I hope Sandtoft gets back on its feet soon. EGCN's gain is Sandtoft's loss- :E Sandtoft is a great little airfield and is perfect for relaxed club flying and learning to fly. I'll be voting with my feet and returning to Sandtoft. With a bit of TLC we'll all put it back on track and repair the damage. I think the real people on here will agree that a club isn't about its membership. Its about its members!:ok:
Hope everyone is ticking along OK despite the snow!
tonker
30th Nov 2010, 08:50
What happened to the chap running the Helicopter section about 5-6 years ago?. Walked very lightly on his feet and used to work Casinos etc
birdman69
30th Nov 2010, 19:00
He finally wore his shoes out and went to Monte Carlo for a new pair but I don't think that had anything to do with the recent issues at Sandtoft, Tonker !
birdman69
30th Nov 2010, 20:23
In reply to KarlwithaK, Avgas fuel is available at Doncaster from a small bowser but retails at £1.68 per ltr. To fill a PA28 with 40 galls would cost circa £300. By my calcs that puts the net cost of running a PA28 with aircraft lease towards£110 per hour. Not a large margin when hired out at less than £120 per hour. I wish them luck at Doncaster but they certainly seem to have set themselves some handicaps. If Sandtoft bounces back, and my gut feeling is it will, I wonder which way the members/ex members will vote ?
MichaelJP59
3rd Dec 2010, 13:25
I guess the snow has delayed things on the ground but has anyone heard anything more about plans for Sandtoft?
JOE-FBS
4th Dec 2010, 15:06
I flew into Sandtoft for a weekend last January and liked it very much so I wish it well. That said, my family live very close to Finningley and it would be much more convenient if light aircraft were welcome there at a sensible price. I don't mind a twenty or thirty pound landing fee for such a place but do resent the c. £75 compulsory handling I was quoted.
Do any of you locals know please whether the presence of a flying school at the spaceport means that we'll be able to take light aircraft there for a sensible price?
Phli4fun
8th Dec 2010, 16:47
I suppose I'm just re-posting Michael JP59's request here. Does anybody have information regarding Sandtofts future?
It all seems to have gone very quiet. As Michael says the snow won't help, but with the airfield phone number diverted to Robin Hood and no news from anywhere else, I'm starting to worry.
Mondo...Are you on frequency?
29_Grass
8th Dec 2010, 20:48
From what i understand things are going on behind the scenes to keepc some activity at Sandtoft. At the moment I think that those who need to know what's afoot know.
I'm pretty confident to say this is by no means the end for Sandtoft, I wish everyone there the very best of luck whatever happens, its a nice airfield and reminds me of how some of the local airfields 'used to be' about 15 years ago.
A and C
10th Dec 2010, 07:44
While some might say that to move to Doncaster is a good thing and that the Doncaster management are cooperative the problem is that this is the attitude of the current management.
So often have I seen the corperate wind change and a bean counter who has no real idea of how to run a business take over, the next move is pressure from the airlines saying that they are "subsidising" the little aircraft and so the charges to GA are increased to a level that makes the whole thing uneconomic.
So the "little" aircraft get forced out, the airport operating costs are unchanged and because of this the airlines have to find the full cost of the airport fees. Is this a victory for the airlines?
So who subsidises who?
It is a good question but a flying club that has moved to Doncaster will have to be quick on it's feet when the inevitable pressure from the airline bean counters starts to be applied.
My advice would be to stay at Sandtoft and deal with people who need your business.
Mondo
15th Dec 2010, 17:20
I have had a meeting today,(15th Dec 2010) with the landlord, at Sandtoft Airfield. I have received his assurance that the airfield should be up and running in the early part of January. The flight centre and cafe' will be decorated before Xmas and thereafter the staff will ensure that they are cosy and welcoming places to be. The legal paperwork in respect of flying activities has gone in to the CAA, as we speak. Fuel supplies have been secured and after further discussions we have the assurance that sufficient aircraft will be available for hire as soon as we become operational. I apologise that it has not been a seamless changeover, but most people will understand why. I personally have to thank the many people who have contacted me for their patience, expressions of loyalty and offers of good will. Have a Merry Xmas and I look forward to a Happy Flying New Year. Ray Price. C.F.I. designate. Sandtoft.
Phli4fun
15th Dec 2010, 19:25
That's brilliant news Mondo, thanks for the early Christmas present. I look forward to flying with you in the new year. Best of luck to all involved in ressurecting Sandtoft airfield.
honda cbx
15th Dec 2010, 19:54
Hope it all works out for you Ray and will call in to see you in the new year, all the best from one of your old students from Sherburn.
Mr E Pilot
15th Dec 2010, 19:59
Good news! I for one can't wait to get back! Think I speak for a few others too:ok:
L'aviateur
16th Dec 2010, 10:29
Excellent news Ray, I wish you the very best with bringing Sandtoft back into operation. I'm sure all of the members are very grateful.
md 600 driver
16th Dec 2010, 10:35
cant the heading of this post now be changed maybe sandtoft less worrying news or just plainly sandtoft news on reopening
Phli4fun
16th Dec 2010, 22:42
Positive thinking Md 600 Driver - I like it!
Sir George Cayley
17th Dec 2010, 21:59
Well when those splendid chaps from the CAA arrive to inspect the new operation, at least the state of the runway will be a tick in the box:ok:
Good luck to all over that side of the Pennines. Such enthusiasm must have its rewards.
Sir George Cayley
Phli4fun
4th Jan 2011, 21:58
Things are looking up!
New Website for Sandtoft Airfield
http://www.sandtoftflyingclub.co.uk/index.html (http://www.sandtoftflyingclub.co.uk/index.html)
The Flight Centre has been decorated. Carpets going in this weekend. Nicky should be back in the office from 17th Jan. Restoration of phone lines and fire cover are both under way.We hope to have PPL's flying first then training will continue when the paperwork comes back from the CAA. Mondo.
Zulu Mike
6th Jan 2011, 10:49
Great news, always a pleasure to fly in lets hope we can do so again soon
More great news here;
Sandtoft Flying Club News (http://www.sandtoftflyingclub.co.uk/SandtoftClubNews.html)
Trev
Mr E Pilot
12th Jan 2011, 21:55
Sandtoft has a members feature on its web site.
Sandtoft Flying Club - Forum (http://sandtoftflyingclub.co.uk/memberarea/)
Check it out:ok: You need to register to read the treads
helisdw
16th Jan 2011, 13:29
Thinking of visiting Sandtoft tomorrow, weather permitting...
Does anybody know if PPR is required?
If so, does anyone have a contact number (the website doesn't give a telephone or fax number for the airfield)?
Many thanks,
Simon
Simon
Think the phones are being reconnected Tomorrow & we'll most likely have new numbers.
PPR Question I can't answer at the Moment but I don't think it will be busy tomorrow while they get up & running so shouldn't see a problem with you flying in if you get an answer on the radio on the usual frequency.
Cheers Trev
helisdw
16th Jan 2011, 14:45
Trev,
Thanks very much for the reply.
I'll give a call on 130.425 tomorrow and see what transpires!
Looking forward to sampling some offerings from the Sky View Cafe...
Simon
Just had a phone conversation with Nikky & she's told me that Sandtoft will now NOT Open till the end of January. One of the reasons is that BT can't install new phone lines until then.
Trev
sammypilot
17th Jan 2011, 17:24
Surely one or two mobiles, available from pretty well anywhere and ready for immediate use, would tide them over.
Looking into this i think from what i've heard.
Trev
vauxhall
31st Mar 2011, 09:00
I flew into Sandtoft the other day, and found the welcome very acceptable. The satff there are very friendly, and cope with the traffic very well. A new caterer is back in the cafe (welcome back Kath!!!, at least there is no rudeness there, as was before 52nd Street Aviation moved out!). Food is great value for money. £10 landing fee, but that is well offset by a free coffee and bun. Good on yer Sandtoft Aero Club, welcome back and good luck for the future. I will be flying in again!