How will my IFR flight outside of controlled airspace by handled?

[Contacttower]

I'm thinking of an IFR flight from Perth (EGPT) to Norwich. I glance at the standard route document reveals a route that is mostly outside of controlled airspace and indeed the way I intend to fly it will mean that the Newcastle CTA will be the only controlled airspace I will need to negotiate (the standard route is unacceptable due to the high MEA on some portions of L602). My question is which ATC units along the way, apart from departure and destination obviously, will know about my existence? Will Newcastle for example know?

Sorry if this seems like a silly question but I've always assumed that unless your IFR flight has a portion in designated airways it will be treated the same as a VFR plan, ie just departure and destination know. Is this correct?

I'm using EuroFPL to file which I believe feeds directly into the Eurocontrol website.

I posted this same question earlier in the ATC forum and got very little response.

Thanks in advance...:ok:

[niknak]

The only ATC units en route who will have your IFR flight plan will be Departure and Arrival airports, Scottish ATCC and London ATCC (for the purposes of your transit of Controlled Airspace) and, depending if you will be flying above FL100, Scottish & London Military.
I am not familiar with Scottish airspace, but if you are transitting at F100 or above for the majority of your route, there's a good chance that Scottish and then London Military will give you a radar service from F100 upward, but it is entirely subject to their traffic and staffing levels.
If they do take you on, you can expect to stay with them all the way until about 30 - 40nm north of Norwich, then it'll be the delights of Norwich Radar for you Sir!

If the military can't take you, or if you are flying lower, once you finish with the Jocks you should get a seamless set of handovers thus:
Newcastle - Teesside - Humberside - possibly Coningsby but more likely a direct handover to Norwich.

London Mil offer a great service (including crossings of CAS) and will see you all the way from Newcastle to the Wash so it's worth planning to fly high if you can.

[mm_flynn]

You should expect the same flight plan distribution as VFR (i.e. no one other than departure/destination).

However, if flying at a solidly 'not VFR level' (i.e. FL100) and with airways standard comms, I have always found everyone very professional at organising handoffs and transits.

[Contacttower]

Thanks guys that's exactly the sort of answer I was looking for...:ok:

[Toadpool]

On that track, IFR outside controlled airspace, you should plan to be at the appropriate quadrantal level, e.g. odd +500'.

[englishal]

You don't even need a flight plan if IFR OCAS. Just talk to Newcastle and get a transit. If you do file a flight plan, use AFPEx and address it to Newcastle as well - at least that is what I'd do. You never know it might make some difference.

[Il Duce]

I don't think Humberside and Norwich have overlapping radar cover. Coningsby and Marham (depending on the timing of your flight) would be the likely candidates to provide a LARS between Humberside and Norwich.

[travisholland]

You can address to Newcastle with EuroFPL too, and much easier/faster than AFPEX.

Just enter Newcastle tower into one of the additional address boxes just before you click the last "file" button.

[IO540]

This has been done to death here already many times :) but basically there is no advantage, in the UK, in filing an IFR FP for a flight which is mostly OCAS. May as well file VFR, or no flight plan at all.

If you have the full IR and can file FL100 plus (or so) then you can file an IFR FP, and then the routing has to be acceptable to Eurocontrol. For that type of flying you will want some routing assistance because the Eurocontrol computer does very strict route checking against a top secret database ;) EuroFPL (http://www.eurofpl.eu/) provides one form (using a recently introduced Eurocontrol "route suggest" facility) as well as a flight plan filing facility for both VFR and IFR, and a standalone PC- or Mac-based automatic route generation tool is FlightPlanPro (http://flightplanpro.eu/Home.html).

Within the UK, it is possible to file low-level (e.g. FL070 or less) IFR FPs, and these do get sent to Eurocontrol (as do all IFR FPs) and, usually these days, Eurocontrol does not throw them out if they are written out as a series of DCTs less than 100nm long and avoid using any airway names e.g. R803. As with all IFR FPs, such FPs do get distributed by Eurocontrol to all the usual IFR units along the route (e.g. London Control for southern England) but the staff in these units will just bin them as soon as they get them because they are not "proper IFR". So there is no point...

A long and tedious writeup on this subject can be found here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/ifr-flying/index.html).

[bookworm]

I'm thinking of an IFR flight from Perth (EGPT) to Norwich. I glance at the standard route document reveals a route that is mostly outside of controlled airspace and indeed the way I intend to fly it will mean that the Newcastle CTA will be the only controlled airspace I will need to negotiate (the standard route is unacceptable due to the high MEA on some portions of L602). My question is which ATC units along the way, apart from departure and destination obviously, will know about my existence? Will Newcastle for example know?

As niknak says, "the east coast main line" is very nicely served, at least Mon-Fri 9-17. Newcastle, Teesside, Leeming, Linton, Doncaster/Humberside, Waddington. Seamless, with or without a filed FPL. I would say no point in filing one, unless you want it for S&R, or it's an advantage for Scottish.

[Contacttower]

Maybe I've been labouring under this misconception for a while but doesn't one need a FPL to cross the FIR boundary when going from an airfield in Scotland to one in England?

[welkyboy]

Think you'll find you have to file a FPL when crossing International boundaries!
not national FIR boundaries

[dont overfil]

Hi CT,
No FPL required for Scotland - England FIR. It is required for flight to southern Ireland or Europe.
As IO540 says there is usually no point in filing a FPL for VFR or IFR under FL100.
It's a trip I do regularly. I can explain on Sunday if you are going to the dinner.
DO.