Getting to Commercial (Noob question)

[marcus1290]

Evening,

Bit of a noob question but here it is:
I have only been flying a few times but it is my dream to become a commercial pilot. However, doing research, read books, articles ect on flying and the paths on how to become a commercial pilot and i have managed to confuse myself. I can't work out what i have to do to become a commercial pilot. Obviously i know i have to get my PPL, CPL and ATPL but there are so many different combinations/abbreviations of doing this that i have managed to get confused.

What im asking for is that someone explains the most common or "easiest" way to become a commercial pilot after gaining my PPL.

Thanks

Mark

[fabbe92]

First you get your PPL, then you build your hours untill you have around 150 hours. During your timebuilding or after, you start the atpl ground school and after finishing, you take the theoretical exams. After this you get your CPL/ME/IR and these may be done in different order. after these you are a commercial pilot and since you did the ATPL you have a froozen ATPL wich will become unfroozen at some point. Normally 1500 hours. If you want to instruct, you take a special course wich makes IT possible to apply for a job as a flight instructor teaching stalls and turns and all that. If you want to fly for the airlines you need a Type Rating on the plane you are going to fly. You can apply to an airline and some of these psy the Type Rating for you. Or you can pay for it yourself and apply to an airline that uses that plane.

This is the basic information you need to know about. There are different ests of doing this, step by step or all togheter non stop. There are many things to be Said about type rarings, schools etc so please read through this forum. You'll learn everything you need to know here and I know that there are professionals here that know a lot more than me. So search around!

Good luck!

[Ty-Fry-Typhoon]

1. PPL
2. ATPL exams :{
3. Hour building to 100 hours PIC
4. Night Qualification
5. CPL
6. Multi IR
7. MCC - Multi Crew Co-op course
8. Buy a big stick to fend off all the airlines begging you to join them

You could if you wished after the CPL do the flight instructors course and teach for a while before doing the IR & MCC.
This way is known as the modular route.

Hope this helps
Cheers

[B2N2]

Or alternatively you do the following;


JAA (European) PPL, go to the US
FAA (US) Instrument rating
Timebuild on an IFR flightplan (much more valuable than doodling around VFR)
FAA (US) Commercial



JAA ATPL written exams
CPL conversion
IR conversion


This way you build much more IFR or Instrument time.

[kblackburn]

marcus1290...great advice from Ty-Fry-Typhoon, fabbe92 and B2N2 :ok:

The only thing I would add is that you also need to keep you determination at 100% at all times. I am 49 now but in my younger days (after gaining my PPL) I to had ambitions of going pro, but didn't quite give it my all. I would say you have to 'live aviation' for the next few years in order to give yourself the best chance of making it...

...and I wish you all the best in what will be a great adventure for you.

Cheers - Keith

[buzzc152]

just a small correction to one post above ; the night qualification is not required. The IR will give you night 'privilages' so you don't need to spend extra cash adding to your PPL (unless you want to of course).

[madlandrover]

No it won't - having an IR removes the night currency requirement for carrying passengers, it doesn't remove the requirement for a night qualification to fly at night in the first place.

[rmcb]

Tread soft on this one -

An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the
holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A), either licence to include
the privileges to fly by night, issued in accordance with
ICAO Annex 1. In addition, applicants must hold a Flight
Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence.


LASORS 2008, LAS Section E, 1.2.

[mad_jock]

Which is wrong you only have to have the training/ signoff complete you don't need to have it issued.

[rmcb]

To be safe, please check this with the CAA FCL dept. - not having the magic words on your licence could cause headaches later.

[mad_jock]

I don't have the magic words on my license. Mind you it is green

It is very common to get the whole lot issued at the same time because it will save you a heap of dosh.

I believe that if you do the IR test first it needs to be issued on the PPL.

But if you do the more common route of CPL then IR you don't require it on your license you just need all the ticks in the boxes.

Asking FCL anything these days is a waste of time because they will point you at lasors which if wrong they won't have a clue what your on about.

[felixthecat]

Or go to Oxford or Cabair or the like and do an integrated full time course, and leave with a CPL IR (frozen ATPL) The basic licence for an airline job.

This route is expensive but you don't need even a PPL to start with. It is the fastest route taking approx 15 months.

[mad_jock]

Its not the fastest I was 12 month zero to CPL/IR/FI.

[rmcb]

I believe that if you do the IR test first it needs to be issued on the PPL.

Fair comment.

Asking FCL anything these days is a waste of time because they will point you at lasors which if wrong they won't have a clue what your on about.

Ditto.

[felixthecat]

You do not have to have a PPL to have an IR issued. If you do the integrated route you never have a PPL you go straight to CPL.

[mad_jock]

Nobody said you did. But you wil have passed all the progress checks which will be the ticks in the boxes that will all come together at the end to be issued exactly the same license as a modular student.

[Dane-Ger]

"It is the fastest route taking approx 15 months"

not true, modular is both quicker if needed, can also be much slower if required, therefore also more flexible.

[felixthecat]

I think you are doing well if you manage the modular route quicker than the integrated since the integrated is full time and generally the modular isn't.

[mad_jock]

You must be joking

3 weeks PPL, phase one 8 weeks including exams and brush up, 2 weeks hour build, 6 weeks for phase 2, Hour build and MEP and night qual if you already didn't do it during your PPL.

5 weeks IR 2 weeks CPL, 5 weeks FI 2 weeks MCC.

Ready for a nervous break down yes I would agree.

I didn't do the MCC because I had a FI job to go to straight out of training and did it a year later after having 1000 hours in my log book.

I did the rest though in 50 weeks and only stopped working for the CPL/IR and FI.

Would I suggest anyone does it that quick these days?

Like hell, there arn't any jobs at the end of it so why sit becoming stale struggling to remain current when you could time it so you come on the market when folk start hiring.

But as you have obviously swallowed the intergrated sales patter and believe it is the premier way to train no doudt this post will be lost on you felix.

[felixthecat]

Well done, impressive....but generally it takes longer to do it modular. There are always exceptions..... and generally it can be easier getting a job. Now someone will argue that no its not...but there are no hard and fasts...I say generally

And I speak from experience, yes I was integrated and yes it took me 13 months start to finish, and 5 weeks to get a job (a jet job, and I add I was VERY lucky) I now have nearly 8000 hours jet, 2000 hours command, and fly B777 so please feel free to shoot me down all you like :0) I am just answering questions, helping where I can, no skin off my nose :0)

[mad_jock]

With those hours I presume you would have been pre Jar.

I would agree in those days there was no competion between the 2 courses. You just couldn't get the same license doing self improver that quickly.

Under the current system its pretty easy for a modular to beat the intergrated student if they have half a brain and can self study it was very common for a couple of years when the airlines were hiring. Plus also I don't think the schools can put them through in 13 months these days. All of the intergrated pilots I have met who qualified in the last 2 years have been 15-18 months start to finish.

Its the same license these days when you come out at the end.

I can beat you easy on the command but not the total time but I suspect if we had a look at the number of landings it would be 6-8 times yours but thats the life of a TP jock. As personally I enjoy flying and enjoy the TO and landings so you are quite welcome to your jet lag and a couple of landings a week :p salary would be nice mind.

[B2N2]

Can we stop bickering amongst ourselves and come with at least reasonable suggestions for the original poster?

Thank you.....:ugh:

[mad_jock]

I think yours and typhoons have got it about right.

But I wouldn't personally bother with doing the FAA route unless you have a green card or have an idea that you will need an FAA license for a future job.

The N reg stuff in europe is all up in the air at the moment so you might have an advantage over some other students if you have both tickets for flying N reg Biz jets if the require you to have dual licenses.

But we shall have to see what the fall out is of EASA.

Going intergrated in the current climate is plain stupid.

[marcus1290]

Okay, so i appreciate everyone taking the time to become involved in the discussion, but there have been a lot of things thrown in this thread and i think im even more confused.

A lot of you guys have loads of experience here and obviously all have different views, which is what i was looking for. Basically all i want to know is:

The easiest way to go commercial.
The quickest way to go commercial.
The "better" way to go commercial.

There is a lot of chat of modular and integrated and im not exactly sure of the difference.

Cheers

[mad_jock]

Use the search function there is tons of threads on the stuff you have asked about and it is never ending.

It also changes constantly depending on what the industry is doing. What is the best thing to do today will be different in 6 months time.

[Jabiman]

The easiest way to go commercial.
The quickest way to go commercial.
The "better" way to go commercial.

For the first two, a cadetship.

[B2N2]

But I wouldn't personally bother with doing the FAA route unless you have a green card or have an idea that you will need an FAA license for a future job.

The N reg stuff in europe is all up in the air at the moment so you might have an advantage over some other students if you have both tickets for flying N reg Biz jets if the require you to have dual licenses.

Hold your horses, Europe is not the beginning and the end of the universe.
You may want to start looking for a job outside of Europe.
FAA certificates would certainly be handy.


Jabiman;


There is no easy way, it's all hard work
There is no cheap way, it's all expensive
There is a quick way which is the US


Everything in aviation is expensive it's just a matter of being less expensive.
FAA Commercial followed by JAA conversion can take as little as 12-14 months anywhere between 55-65K Euro.
That's a steal compared to European prices, no matter how you look at it.

Be aware, the majority of the heavy weights on Pprune are genetically predisposed against training in the US.
:suspect:

[bobbyp]

Hi,
Can anyone tell me how that 1500hrs has to be made up?
Can it be in various aircraft eg. GPA, Micro etc or does it all have to be GPA.

Thanks
Bobby

[Ty-Fry-Typhoon]

The easiest way to go commercial.
Theres no easy way, its hard work whichever route you choose

The quickest way to go commercial.
Modular if you do it full time but generally intergrated is regarded as quicker as its usually the full time option.

The "better" way to go commercial.
I only have an opinion on that and giving it would be just asking for trouble!

What you need to do is look at the two and decides what best fits your needs.
Gets some brochures from intergrated flight schools and modual flight schools and see.
Best still get your PPL and then makeup your mind, you could start and decide you like flying but commercial is not for you.

Cheers

[marcus1290]

"The "better" way to go commercial.
I only have an opinion on that and giving it would be just asking for trouble!"

I'd love to hear your opinion, thats why i started this thread.

Thanks for the advice