Gliding Bronze C- PPL Dispensation

[Okavango]

The Bronze C requirements state - "50 or more solo glider flights (or 20 flights in a glider and 10 hours pilot in command). Powered aeroplane flying experience will give some dispensation".

Does anyone know what this dispensation is?

[robin]

... or whether or not it will continue.

[cats_five]

It's entirely at your CFI's discretion.

[tinpilot]

I didn't know that there was a dispensation - the current Laws & Rules doesn't mention it.

Where did you find the reference?

[ProfChrisReed]

I think you're looking at an outdated description of the Bronze requirements. Nothing in the current material about any dispensation.

In any event, if you haven't managed 10 solo hours or 50 launches, I think you'll be doing well to pass the flying test. It's a bit like the dispensation a Silver badge gives from minimum PPL training time - I believe hardly anyone gets any real benefit because they can't reach the standard in that reduced minimum (sky gods apart, obviously).

[Okavango]

Thanks - understood. I got the info form an old Ken Stewart book so it's probably out of date now.

[micromalc]

my understanding of dispensation is that the Gliding FI can allow a student, with a ppl, to go solo earlier if they consider that the student has the appropriate skill. ( I think !! )

[cats_five]

It doesn't matter what the background is, one is only let go solo in a glider when one has the appropriate level of skill. There's no minimum number of flights (at least not in the UK) except that those of us at winch launch sites have a number of flights to demonstrate that we can handle cable breaks.

However observation suggests that PPLs and the like tend to reach the required skill level faster, and I believe a chap at our club who used to instruct at the CFS managed somewhere under 30 despite being in his 60s. He had thousands of hours in all sorts of things, flying a glider was apparently 'just another type conversion' for him.

[micromalc]

well, be that as it may, i think one of the problems about returning to gliding is not the actual flying, that's the fun bit, for me, it's the thought that in order to progress i will have to sit the theory exams again and i know that fills me with dread. Even though i currently fly microlights, slmg/tmg's and sep's the thought of having to study "all that stuff" again could easily deter me. Am i alone in this?

[BackPacker]

I started gliding a few years ago, which was a few years after I got my PPL(A).

Although I never intended to obtain my GPL, I'm actually approaching that moment now, and am investigating what's required. And as I found out, in the Netherlands, my PPL(A) gives me waivers for all GPL theory exams except a 20-minute multiple-choice on aircraft technical, and a 15-minute oral exam about navigation. Or something along those lines. In my case, the journey to the gliding site to sit those exams is about five times longer than the exams themselves.

You might want to investigate what sort of waivers are applicable in the UK. But I'd be really surprised if you really need to sit all GPL exams if you're a holder of a current PPL.

[chrisN]

This is a response to a posting that seems to have since disappeared!

---------------
Then be prepared to be surprised.

I know an ATPL, also CPL, also current flying instructor on SEPs, who has just taken the entire bronze C examinations syllabus as part of his conversion to gliding.

There have been some discussions about eliminating the need for some of the duplicated examinations, but I understand that at least up to now it has been considered that there are sufficient differences to justify the full syllabus needing to be examined.


Chris N (edited to add first sentence, after disappearance of the referenced posting, and correction of a spelling error.)

[ProfChrisReed]

in the Netherlands, my PPL(A) gives me waivers for all GPL theory exams except a 20-minute multiple-choice on aircraft technical, and a 15-minute oral exam about navigation. Or something along those lines. In my case, the journey to the gliding site to sit those exams is about five times longer than the exams themselves.

You might want to investigate what sort of waivers are applicable in the UK. But I'd be really surprised if you really need to sit all GPL exams if you're a holder of a current PPL. It's very different in the UK. The only paper exam is for the Bronze badge, and that's multiple choice, pretty much all things related to gliding that one might not have covered on the PPL. Even the air law section is gliding-focused. You sit the exam at your club when your CFI is persuaded you are ready and it takes less than an hour. I sat the old exam, with written answers, and there was nothing in it you wouldn't learn from a good gliding book and a copy of the BGA's Laws & Rules, which you ought to read during your training in any event. The new exam is no harder, as far as I can see.

The other exam is the cross-country endorsement test, which is as much navigation and field selection training as exam. Again, about an hour.

Thereafter the whole "syllabus" is achievement-based and internationally standardised - Silver, Gold and Diamond badges.

I think the UK GPL is given on the basis of Bronze + XC + flying hours experience - not sure because it's only of use flying outside the UK. However, I suspect I should get one in case EASA gives grandfather rights to BGA GPL holders but not to others.

[Edited to add that I know the airline pilot ChrisN referred to, as the three of us belong to ths same club. I didn't know he'd done the exams, as he didn't think them worth mentioning - much more interested in achieving solo aerotow, which he also did in style.]

Don't let the exams put you off!

[Dan Winterland]

It used to be the case that the holder of a Silver C had the hours requirement for a PPL reduced from 35hrs (then) to 20. But we're talking a very long time ago.

[cats_five]

well, be that as it may, i think one of the problems about returning to gliding is not the actual flying, that's the fun bit, for me, it's the thought that in order to progress i will have to sit the theory exams again and i know that fills me with dread. Even though i currently fly microlights, slmg/tmg's and sep's the thought of having to study "all that stuff" again could easily deter me. Am i alone in this?


Ahh. Am remembering that in PPL world I believe you have to have passed Air Law before you can go solo. In the UK gliding world you go solo when your gliding is of adequate standard, and don't do the current single multiple-choice exam until you are doing your Bronze C. If you have a PPL then the Bronze C paper should be a breeze, unless you've forgotten most of the things you learnt to get your PPL...

I gather that as the EASA pilot licencing gets into gear glider pilots will do the same exams as PPLs, NPPLs and so on, and I suspect that getting a licence for something different will become easier. I have heard it will certainly make flying a self-launching glider easier - AFAIK at present anyone wanting to fly one of those needs an NPPL,

[BEagle]

Ahh. Am remembering that in PPL world I believe you have to have passed Air Law before you can go solo.Not a legal requirement, but often used as an incentive to get students to work for their exams!It used to be the case that the holder of a Silver C had the hours requirement for a PPL reduced from 35hrs (then) to 20. But we're talking a very long time ago. Indeed, Dan - another casualty of JAR-FCL. The only such credit these days is 10% PIC time on gliders (up to a maximum of 10 hrs).

[ASM]

"I have heard it will certainly make flying a self-launching glider easier - AFAIK at present anyone wanting to fly one of those needs an NPPL,"

cats_five, please excuse me for being picky: changing licencing won't make flying a self-launcher any easier, or any more difficult. The aircraft, the flying challenges and the vast amount of fun to be had will be all be exactly the same.

Illustrates neatly, though, the sheer nonsense of licences.

(Currently, for self launchers, a UK pilot needs an SLMG or TMG rating on a licence; NPPL, UK PPL or JAA-FCL PPL.

EASA opinion is that after the transition period - Apr 2015 - the pilot of a self launcher will need an SPL or LAPL(S) which includes self launching as one of the launch methods.)

[micromalc]

well, all the above is most interesting, but, i imagine that i will continue to do some gliding because:
1. It's another tick in the box
2. and, to be honest, i find gliding to be very relaxing and most enjoyable.
( but then i do find all other forms of flying great fun.....no wonder i"m broke!)

with ref to the post above....are you saying that as from 2015 i will not be able to fly the TMG on my NPPL and that i may have to get yet another licence (ug)

[ASM]

"are you saying that as from 2015 i will not be able to fly the TMG on my NPPL and that i may have to get yet another licence"

Something like that.

The idea is that NPPLs will be "transitioned" into EASA licences.
Quite how and when and, crucially, at what cost, has not yet been decided.

(Unless the TMG you have in mind is an Annex II one. I am afraid I don't even know if there are any Annex II TMGs)

[nonrad]

It used to be the case that the holder of a Silver C had ALL the hours and cross country requirements for a PPL and only needed to do 3 hours solo and a GFT.

All you needed was a few hours of dual intruction, off to do your solo flying, pass the GFT, all done in a couple of days. But we're talking the 1970's.

Worked fine.

[cats_five]

"I have heard it will certainly make flying a self-launching glider easier - AFAIK at present anyone wanting to fly one of those needs an NPPL,"

cats_five, please excuse me for being picky: changing licencing won't make flying a self-launcher any easier, or any more difficult. The aircraft, the flying challenges and the vast amount of fun to be had will be all be exactly the same.

<snip>


Yes, you are right - I should have written 'get licenced to fly a self-launcher'.