Piper Seminole crash at kpbi on airline ramp

[BigFootDriver]

Just witnessed a tragic crash of a piper seminole from the window seat of my flight from kpbi to kdfw. Sketchy info still but it appears the Seminole was from a flight school at Fort Pierce Florida, with a student, instructor, and two observers. Aircraft experienced a powerplant malfunction on takeoff. While returning to pbi, aircraft crashed violently, cartwheeling and exploding about 100 yards from the right wingtip of our 737 which was still at gate.

All occupants killed. Rest in peace.

[kblackburn]

Apparently one of the occupants is alive but critically injured.

Three killed in Palm Beach airplane crash - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/11/florida.plane.crash/)

[pattern_is_full]

Uggh! A Seminole with an engine out essentially becomes an Arrow (1 x 180 hp) that's up to 1000 pounds overweight, in addition to the asymmetric thrust. Esp. with 4 on board.

Picture here: Crash at PBIA leaves 3 dead (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/crash-at-pbia-leaves-3-dead-1040288.html)

[edit] and more, some showing proximity to gates more clearly: Small plane crashes at PBIA | Breaking news | Palm Beach Post (http://postpix.palmbeachpost.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=1115920&CategoryID=50973&ListSubAlbums=0)

still a lot of "fog" in the reporting. Story says "plane flew a little more than 2 miles" - while the picture clearly shows runway/taxiway signs by the wreckage. Informational graphic does place the crash right on the edge of the terminal ramp, just as BigFoot says.

Some reports says 3 dead, 1 critically injured, but that's the kind of thing that always takes time to clarify.

Of note to any ATPs who did training at Melbourne, FL: craft supposedly registered to FIT, a flight training school there.

[Jabawocky]

Instructor and student......:hmm:

I hope in the vain of lost life it was a genuine engine failure and not some wise ass instructor pulling one in such a way that it was never going to be good.

Why am I so touchy about it, a Embraer Brasillia prang in Darwin earlier this year :{

[protectthehornet]

many years ago I was an MEI. I flew the seminole a great deal (not that particular one).

It is a fine plane for training, however, multi engine instruction is perhaps the most dangerous type of flight instruction there is. the nature of training with an engine out is potentially very dangerous...even just simulating an engine out can be dangerous.

I also encourage true multi engine training to be done without additional weight and without a rearward center of gravity. in other words, half gas tanks and no rear passenger.

it could be many things, but simulating a one engine go around or such is a very tough thing, and one knot slow or too much of a rearward cg can be tough.

[grusome]

I haven't the facts, and I know the world has changed, but....................

As a sometime Examiner of Airmen (GA), I have to say that I am amazed anyone can even suggest that practice EFATO would be a possible cause - two innocent pax, it would appear, are casualties now, if that is the case. Not even a possibility a few years ago!

[PA-28-180]

" I have to say that I am amazed anyone can even suggest that practice EFATO (Engine Failure After Take-Off) would be a possible cause "

My multi training, of course, included this....HOWEVER, it was done the same as departure and other stall training...AT ALTITUDE! NEVER would any of my instructors pull an engine on an actual take-off (at least, not below 600AGL)....and passengers (usually another student) were NEVER allowed unless it was a x-country or simulated IFR flight.
I, too, find it hard to believe that a flight school/instructor would allow something like this. :ugh:

[rmac]

Well its not so long ago on a joint BFR and IPC that an instructor pulled an engine on me at the end of an ILS at 250ft just as I was transitioning to go-around in a blustery crosswind and in the moment we were nearly over...took some very rough control handling to keep us upright...I know we need to train for all eventualities but f*ck me !!

Needless to say, I didn't go back there again.

No pax in the back though, thats why I would agree that if this was a practice engine failure then the instructor must not have been really thinking....

[Tinstaafl]

Now reported that the survivor has died.

Coincidently, my pax. today learnt to fly there. He talked to his former instructor there last night and was told it was *three* instructors + a friend (girlfriend, I think) with two of the instructors recently qualified. Perhaps they were taking advantage of staff rental rates to gain multi time while making a holiday of it.


update
Names have been released. Two were students at FIT not far from graduating so held at least CPLs. One was an instructor there and the fourth another FIT employee. Two of the victims were brothers.

Poor bastards, and poor families.