Barcelona / Biarritz

[Aussie Andy]

Hi,

A club trip is being planned to Barcelona, with a stop at Biarritz on the way back. Likely to take place in May.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who's been to either on recommended routes, good things, bad things, pitfalls, etc. E.g. does the proximity of hills present any problems at Biarritz for instance?

Cheers all,


Andy

[bluskis]

If you are crossing to France via SAM and MP check if the French shoot down zone on the Cherbourg peninsula is still in operation.
The hills south of Biarritz are actually mountains, part of the Pyrenees. They seem to exacerbate the formation of impressive CB's. Biarritz used to have a good met office with radar screens showing the CB activity.
Is your club trip routing north of the mountains in France, or south in Spain? The terrain south is pretty inhospitable if an engine stops.
If going north, winds along the Carcassonne to Perpignan valley can be strong and conditions turbulent.Read the TAF's carefully.

[Aussie Andy]

Thanks bluskis - the route's not settled yet. Some will be in a twin, but most in singles. Terrain south of Pyrennes noted... and will take a look at he valley mentioned on the half-mil - thanks.

Andy

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]</p>

[Rob_L]

Barcelona's not for VFR traffic. Use Sabadell, entry routes through Barcelona controlled airspace. From there to Biarritz I know the route north of Pyrennees(spelling?)which is round the edge of the mountains over the sea in bad weather, through a pass (La Junquera) in medium weather (though there's reputed to be things strung across it, so not too low), or over the top near there at about 5,000ft. Up the valley via Carcassonne to Biarritz (some military areas along that route if I remember, but closed at weekends). Biarritz gave us handling agent but I think at no charge. Free refreshments (beware the dark green brew, it's a liqueur called Izarra). Refuellers couldn't be bothered to turn up (known for it) and we stood by the pumps after contacting them until a local piot and plane turned up and gave them hell. Route along mountains west of there tends to be claggy or stormy. Normal route south into Spain from there is via Burgos.

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Rob_L ]

[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: Rob_L ]</p>

[IanSeager]

I guess you'll be landing at LELL (Sabadell), which is a half hour taxi ride from Barcelona. It is a very busy field with 99% of RT in Spanish. They have entry/exit lanes, and the Barcelona TMA changed last year, so make sure you get hold of the latest charts. I routed east of the Pyrenees, via Perpignan and went back the same way. By the time I'd got there I'd had enough fo flying over land (all of France) and detoured along the coast. There's a big parachute centre at Ampuryabrava(??) to be aware of.
On another occasion I landed at Biaritz, I found it an OK airfield without much of the charm often found in France. San Sebastian might make an interesting alternative though.
Have fun
Ian

[DOC.400]

V friendly tower ops at Sabadell (Barcelona). Temp in August '98 was +44 centigrade on the ground!!! Go for the Best Western hotel at the end of the Ramblas. Cheap, huge rooms with aircon. Taxis also cheap and modern undergound system v impressive.

If you get the chance, visit Carcassonne. The airfield owner also runs the flying club and hotel at the airport and will arrange taxis to town. (I don't THINK he owns them too!) Caracassonne is a delightful double walled Medieval town rebuilt 100 odd years ago. Many, many restaurants.

Watch the Mistral down the Rhone valley, it blows north in summer.

[Mister Gash]

San Sebastian is VERY interesting. It’s a spectacular field but can be very demanding when the wind is blowing, due to combined mountain and sea effect. I’ve always found it to be a very friendly place with staff who go out of their way to be helpful.

Don’t forget that you can legally fly VFR on airways in France and Spain. Well worth considering from a range/time point of view. Also, this way you’ll get to fly OVER the Pyrenees <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Aussie Andy]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the input so far - much appreciated. Do keep it coming please!

A couple of us planning to do this trip had the maps out at the club today, and to absorb some of what has been said. The French ICAO half-mill maps only go up to 5000', so I guess I need to get the airways maps too - which map!??!

Also, where can one rent a liferaft? I have seen this info posted here before I think, but quick search of the forum just now failed to find this...

Cheers,

Andy

[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]</p>

[Lightning ace]

Can only speak about biaritz

Flew down there three up in a AA5A a couple of years ago. Clearing customs at La Rochelle.

Found Biaritz to be a wonderful and very quiet for late August.

Upon arrival, after landing. Simply tied up plane, walked through arivals and jumped in cab for town. had two glorious night in beach hotel, great sea food and golden beaches.

Upon return to terminal could not gain access to apron so had to go to small building at western end and exec office. Paid very reasonable landing fee and given minibus ride back to plane.
GA apron is next to fuel farm, but had to telephone from fuel farm to get refueler out.

Upon departure had to wait at hold for some time for a 146 stuck on the threshold. After an age in the heat he was off and received a passing message on the tower freq from him 'sorry for the delay delta oscar' good old BA.

As for the mountians, they are a reasonable distance from the field, but look daunting. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
<img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[A and C]

Biarritz is no problem at all i used it as a night stop last year on a trip to spain.

I found all the spanish airports very good to use with the staff (airside) all very helpfull , the only snag i found was that the fuel companys will NOT take credit cards so cash was the order of the day or get your self a BP or SHELL card this they will take. (dont leave the fuel card aplication to long it took me the best part of 3 months to get one)

I may also be able to do you a deal on a liferaft.
The only snag with the french airports is that getting things done at lunch time is imposable !.

[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: A and C ]</p>

[Aussie Andy]

Hi there A and C - if liferaft is rental deal, then do please drop me an email with details!

Thanks,


Andy

[bluskis]

Andy
For VFR in france get a pack called VFR Documents in France published by Service de l'information Aeronautique. It has all details of danger areas, rules , frequencies etc. It is now obtainable in the UK.
Flying in the airways at the appropriate VFR levels, different to UK quadrantal rules,eases the planning problems ref restricted and danger zones and airforce low level high speed routes which must sensibly be avoided.
The Mistral of the Rhone valley should not bother you as it is considerably east of your route, but the winds I mentioned, Carcassonne on south, are equally fear and fuel consuming.
Good idea to enjoy the trip where ever you have to stop over for adverse events.

[Aussie Andy]

bluskis - thanks, I'll look for the book (Transair?). Hopefully its written in English, otherwise will have to get my wife to translate for me!

Cheers,


Andy

[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]</p>

[Jude]

Would love to hear how you get on Andy, as i'm planning a trip through france to Barcelona then round the coast to Alicante, across to Majorca then home via Portugal if time permits. Im hoping the wx will be better round the med than it was in scandinavia last year! Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Aussie Andy]

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on the FULL NOTAM in relation to the restricted area near Cherbourg / La Hague? I understand that there's a 10NM radius restriction, with various caveats.. .. .Many thanks,. .. .Andy

[bluskis]

I think the Cherbourg peninsula zone is 30nm radius. Try Guernseyaeroclub.com they should have the latest info

[Aussie Andy]

bluskis - thanks. Didn't find any info there, but did sned them an email (also handy as I needed to get in touch because I want to rent something while I am there on hols with the family in August!). .. .Andy

[Aussie Andy]

... but I have now found the information on the French "CAA" website at <a href="http://www.sia.dgac.fr/dossier/supaipmetro/SUP_2001_82_EN.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sia.dgac.fr/dossier/supaipmetro/SUP_2001_82_EN.pdf</a>. .. .Andy

[skua]

This is what you want. .. .<a href="http://www.sia.dgac.fr/dossier/supaipmetro/SUP_2002_82A_EN.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sia.dgac.fr/dossier/supaipmetro/SUP_2002_82A_EN.pdf</a>. .. .I echo comments on San Sebastian - great place, great restaurants, super hotel with view of runway - see my article in P****t a few years ago.. .. .Good luck. .. .Skua

[arrow2]

Aussie A,. .. .Remember to let us know how you get on - I am planning a trip to Ampuria Brava nr Barcelona in early June (see my thread of a few weeks ago), probably routing Blackbushe / Tours / Amp Brava - I am very familiar with touring in France but have never taken the aircraft over the border.. .. .A2

[Aussie Andy]

Hi guys,. .. .arrow2 Sure - will let u know how the trip goes (in May).. .. .skua Thanks for the link to the more up-to-date version - wish I'd d/loadded that version prior to making all the hand amendments IAW the NOTAMs!. .. .Andy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[CBG]

Aussie, . .. .I heard on the radio on Saturday 9 March that the French military took the missile away from the La Hague restricted area. At least you won't be shot down. . .. .My understanding is that the actual restricted area still exists but it might deseaper by the time of your trip. . .. .We went to Jersey (again) on saturday and the Jersey/Gernsey is real good at giving vectors around the restricted area which basically extends to the Jersey zone (west) and down to the level of Guernesey (south)

[Aussie Andy]

CBG Cheers! Glad to hear the Exocets have been withdrawn! Still, wouldn't go anywhere near there with the threat of impounding aircraft present! . .. .Andy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 11 March 2002, 22:57: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]</small>

[NorthernSky]

I used to fly UK-Spain in light aircraft, quite regularly. We used Biarritz on and off for night-stop, fuel, etc, until we had a very bad experience with the refuellers there, who, I believe, basically put less fuel in than they said they had. From the way they dealt with this, I would not trust them any more, and so took to using San Sebastian every time. . .. .However, the IFR approaches into San Sebastian are very challenging, even for a current IR pilot with a 'baby-FMS' and flight director aeroplane as ours was. VFR is no problem, but the MSA means the skies must be unusually clear.. .. .Good luck with your trip - if you use Biarritz, visit the casino, but watch the fuel in your tanks very carefully.. . . . <small>[ 17 March 2002, 09:35: Message edited by: NorthernSky ]</small>

[Aussie Andy]

G'day Northern,. .. .Thanks for the info re- Biarritz... For a number of reasons, we've already decided to overnigth in La Rochelle instead.. .. .{Wish there was some way to change the title of the thread...]. .. .Andy

[VCR]

Flew to Alicante via La Rochelle and Biarritz last summer. Biarritz was £15 to land a P28R and another £15 to file a flight plan, which wasn't so great. You could ring the UK and get someone to file it back home when you arrive if you know someone with AFTN access. . .The restaurant there is pretty good and fuel facilities were excellent. We were lucky as the whole area was covered in cloud but the airfield was clear. Fairly variable wx conditions depending on wind direction apparently. . .Dont forget to take your brave pants!!. .Good Luck!!

[NorthernSky]

My pleasure. Now La Rochelle - you're really talking. Good airfield, friendly people, nice town, and the site of one of my hairiest ever approaches (horrid cross-wind, NDB approach, night, etc etc....). .. .Enjoy the trip, and bear in mind the brief once given to a glider pilot setting of for his first cross-country. He had gone to the CFI for a long chat about the route, weather, etc. The CFI briefed him thus: 'Press on regardless'.