ICAO language proficiency requirement

[linzhiming]

I would like to check the state of the world regarding the ICAO language proficiency requirement. Officially the ICAO language proficiency requirement has been in force for quite some time but different countries handle the switchover process quite differently.

I currently hold a Germany-issued JAR-FCL PPL(A) licence which states that I hold privileges for radio communication in English and German. The relevant German authority has also previously issued a letter called 'Attestation of ICAO language proficiency', which states that I am at level 4 for English and is valid until 31 Dec 2010. FYI, this is a letter that was basically issued to everyone in Germany who had passed their radio communication exam in both English and German.

To renew my level 4 or get tested for a higher level, German authorities accept a test conducted in Germany only, a test conducted in the UK (where I currently reside) is not accepted. I am not looking forward to flying to Germany just to sit for an exam so I am trying other options:

Another option that I worked out is to get a new licence issued in the UK (JAR-FCL state of licence issue transfer) and potentially get language tested here in the UK. The slightly weird thing though is that the UK does not currently put language levels on to their licences (even if you have been tested, whether by a language school or an FE - note that an FE can sign off only level 6), so I expect my new UK licence to state that I am allowed to communicate in English and German, which is basically the same as my German licence is stating right now.

Separately, neither the UK CAA nor the German LBA have worked out a mechanism how to test/transfer the German language proficiency level. The German LBA has stated that they have been mainly concerned with the English language proficiency (which is the main issue in Germany) so that they have not drafted rules for German language proficiency. However, they note that under ICAO rules I would need to have at least level 4 to communicate in German.

So third option is to do nothing, i.e. keep my German licence with states that I am allowed to communicate in English and German, and hope that no one is going to check whether I have been tested or not. Absurdly, the UK CAA has told me that they are not going to enforce the ICAO language proficiency requirement in the UK for foreign licence holders until at least 2012 as the UK CAA has not been putting language proficiency levels on to their own licences yet. So I should be all right flying in the UK but what if I fly in France or Belgium? Or the US?

So my question boils down to: How do you think is the ICAO language proficiency requirement going to work in practice and how has it been translated into national law and regulations? What do you recommend me to do?

Option 2 sounds like the easiest to do, however it does not seem to change anything in terms of what it will say on the licence so I wonder whether not doing anything (option 3) beyond 31 Dec 2010 will cause me any harm.

I would be interested to hear your experience and thoughts on this.

Regards,

Wolfgang

[Whopity]

Wolfgang,

The whole thing is a mess from start to finish. I am inclined to think your best option is to do nothing. Level 4 is now valid for 4 years not 3, not much use to those who have an expiry date on their licence.
so I expect my new UK licence to state that I am allowed to communicate in English and German, which is basically the same as my German licence is stating right now.If you change to a UK issued licence it will not include any reference to German as they have no ability, or intention to include any language other than English on your licence.

If you are flying a UK Registered aircraft, why not get a UK RT Licence, that entitles you to operate the radio in any G reg aircraft anywhere in the World and guess what, there is no ICAO requirement for such a licence to even mention the English Language!

[2close]

Hi Wolfgang.

Please check your PMs.

I am an Aviation English Language Assessor based in the UK and have done several assessments for German nationals (who have all achieved Level 4 or above); nobody has reported back to me that the LBA has refused to accept their certificate.

I have also done them for nationals from France, Italy, Greece, Belgium, Norway, Netherlands, Poland, Russia, Ukraine and Bulgaria as well as the Middle East, India, South America and Africa. They have all been accepted.

We are also noticing an increasing demand for assessments from airline pilots who are being required to submit evidence of completion of assessments from prospective employers, REGARDLESS of any entry into a licence. I have recently completed several assessments for fluent English speaking airline captains who needed the certificate for a job.

Also, we have come across a number of National Aviation Authorities which are not prepared to accept entries in foreign licences, particularly those which do not state the level achieved.

The increase for Level 4 from 3 years to 4 years is news to me - I've also checked with the accrediting body and they have no information on this.

[BackPacker]

I agree that this is an absolute mess.

I've got a UK-issued PPL but live in the Netherlands. The examiners 'round here didn't have level 6 yet when I did my LPC last year, so they couldn't sign me off then. I now have to do the full-blown test but when I phoned the CAA about the form I needed for that, they kept referring me to SRG\1119 and the standalone LPC form. But that form only allows a sign-off for level 6, not for level 4 or 5, should I achieve that. That took a good 15 minutes explaining from me.

Eventually they just said: "Send us whatever the test examiner produces, in English, and we'll record that."

So I guess even the UK CAA is not quite ready for pilots who only manage a 4 or 5.

[J o e r g]

Wolfgang,
the only way to add the ELP to your GERMAN JAR/FCL ticket is to take the test in GERMANY. NO testing outside Germany or other weaseling around as long as you hold a german JAR/FCL certificate - period. (Even other "experts" tell you so and don't care about the - german - rules). BTW: you are not required to have the ELP endorsement under XIII in your license, BUT you can not use the english language (legally) while flying after Dec., 31st 2010. You're located in the U.K.? So, you better make sure you're legal to exercise your pilot privileges. Ck RyanAir into Bremen (BRE) or Lübeck (LBC) and get a CHEAP flight online. I can meet you there at the apt and administer the ELP test. Assuming you're proficient ... we need approx 60+ minutes including the paperwork. You're back home on the island in no time.
Pls no PMs. My eMail is
pilot AT ferrypilot DOT de
So long, JOERG

www ferrypilot.de

P.S. When did you get your BFZ1 or AZF? Before September 2008?

[2close]

I'm not saying that the LBA will or will not accept the test we use.

All I DO KNOW for an absolute certainty is that I have completed several tests for German nationals, NONE of whom have reported back to me that the LBA has refused to accept the test.

Possibly this is because it is a world-wide accepted test, with British Council approval, and there is no statement on the certificate where the test was carried out.

The UK CAA definitely accepts our certificates, at Levels 4, 5 or 6.

What the UK also accepts is an informal assessment by a Flight Examiner who can only sign you off as Level 6 provided you meet the ICAO Level 6 requirements, although there is evidence to show that examiners are ticking the Level 6 box, irrespective of whether the examinee meets Level 6 or not. Only last week a student told me that his UK CAA Flight Examiner stated (paraphrased), "You're not Level 6, probably Level 5 but I don't know what will happen if I don't tick the Level 6 box so I've ticked it in any case". A couple of months ago another student advised the same and he was barely Level 4. I would not want to be that examiner if the guy is involved in a language related incident - best get a big cheque book at the ready.

I agree, it is an absolute crock and for something so straightforward it is a disgrace that the NAA's can't get their act together. There are several recognised tests out there. Why not just list them? It's hardly rocket science.

:)

[WestWind1950]

as Jörg mentioned, the LBA does not accept exams done in other countries... we assessors got an email stating this some time back. If you don't do the level 4 by Dec. 31, you'll have to take a full test, which costs more.

2close... in Germany level 4 is 4 years for VFR, 3 for IFR ... I'm not sure if that's according to what ICAO wanted. Level 5 is 8 years for VFR, 6 for IFR.

[IO540]

I would like to check the state of the world regarding the ICAO language proficiency requirement. Officially the ICAO language proficiency requirement has been in force for quite some time but different countries handle the switchover process quite differently.

Gosh I would have never believed that ;)

The number of times I have come across ATCOs in Spain or Italy who can barely manage a few words of English. If you try something more advanced (like "request 20 degrees left due weather") they ignore it presumably because that leaves no evidence on the tape. In fact ignoring calls where comprehension is in question seems to be a standard procedure.

I think "switchover" is a bit optimisitic, in some places :)

[172driver]

I agree, it is an absolute crock and for something so straightforward it is a disgrace that the NAA's can't get their act together. There are several recognised tests out there. Why not just list them? It's hardly rocket science.

Simple - because this would mean that about 70% of pilots and controllers in places like Spain or Italy would lose their jobs overnight.

[Whopity]

The increase for Level 4 from 3 years to 4 years is news to meNotified to Examiners by Clive Strong at the UK CAA on 19 Oct 2010.

[Miroku]

Hi Wolfgang,

Just like to say that your English appears a great deal better than most 'native' English speakers.:O

[BackPacker]

Notified to Examiners by Clive Strong at the UK CAA on 19 Oct 2010.

Anything online anywhere? This would extend my current level 4 till my next LPC, where an examiner would be able to sign me off as a 6 for free. Otherwise I'd have to do the full test for a not insignificant fee.

(I'm in a hotel right now with a slow and limited internet connection - a quick Google threw up nothing and I do not have the bandwidth here for a proper search or to start trawling the CAA website.)

[BillieBob]

This is typical of the UK CAA's steady slide into incompetence. The ICAO recommended interval for re-assessment is 3 years for Level 4 and 6 years for Level 5. The relevant documents available on the CAA website here (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=137&pagetype=90&pageid=9338) and here (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=137&pagetype=90&pageid=9350) comply with this recommendation.

Now, however, a single individual (who has never fully grasped the concept of the ICAO recommendations) has apparently decided that Level 4 will be re-assessed at 4 year intervals, and who does he tell? Not the licence holders whose responsibility it is to maintain currency or the language schools and specialist assessors that deal with the majority of Level 4 assessments. No, he restricts the information to a select group of examiners, few if any of whom have any formal training as language assessors and, consequently, are quite incapable of distinguishing between Level 3, 4 and 5. It almost makes you look forward to EASA-FCL......almost!

[2close]

The increase for Level 4 from 3 years to 4 years is news to me
Notified to Examiners by Clive Strong at the UK CAA on 19 Oct 2010.

Cheers Whoppity, may I ask in which publication?

But yet again, whilst the EASA process is striving to have everyone singing from the same hymn sheet some countries go off on their own.......is there any point to EASA? Oops, off on a tangent there with a question that has even less point than the organization at which it was directed!

[Whopity]

I can find no publication so I must assume that as this information came directly by word of mouth from the man in charge at the CAA it has not yet found its way into any publications!
As their website contains the following statement:NOTICE TO ALL PILOTS AND ENGINEERS
Please make sure you notify PLD of your change of address, you may be missing out on vital safety information. Click here for form and it was notified that PLD ceased to exist on 1 Oct 2009, their documentation seems to be a long way behind!

[Cusco]

Why can't English proficiency testing be done by telephone?

[24Carrot]

Why can't English proficiency testing be done by telephone?Some cunning fiend may get an English speaking mate to 'phone in for them!:)

[2close]

Why can't English proficiency testing be done by telephone?

Some cunning fiend may get an English speaking mate to 'phone in for them!

Oi! Will you please kindly stop revealing my pension plan to everyone.....I'm making a small fortune out of doing English Language assessments, ATPL exams and IR Skills Tests.............. ;)


I can find no publication so I must assume that as this information came directly by word of mouth from the man in charge at the CAA.........

The good old CAA jungle drums strike again. :) The best way to get something established as fact is to start a rumour (not suggesting you started it, Whoppity!) and once enough people get hold of it some bright spark at the regulatory end thinks that sounds like a good idea and enforces it....seen it happen plenty of times - I have even been guilty of it myself, although in my defence I only made the original statement as a joke and was as gobsmacked as anyone else when it was enforced. FFS! :rolleyes:

[Cusco]

Don't see why computer link videophone couldn't be used: Camera could identify candidate and watch him while he speaks on standard landline/mobile to be sure it's him talking.

Too simple for EASA I guess

[2close]

Are you seriously suggesting that the European aviation authorities drag themselves out of the Stone Age????

Now, there's a delusional thought!!!

;)

[Cusco]

Nah: Just suggesting a possible solution for the apparent need for people to have to cross borders merely to show they can speak English.

Cusco