AAA Charters

[flyinglad27]

Gday all
Long time watcher first time poster.
Just wondering if anyone had and experience working or dealing with AAA and/or info on them, positive or negative. All feedback much appreciated.\
Cheers In advance

[RatsoreA]

Looking at the ad for low time VFR single engine pilots in the top end?

[el_capitano]

If you can go and see what the company and people are like for yourself, it will be worth the trip. That way you can get a pretty good idea of what kind of outfit it is, and if you can see yourself working for them.

A lot of guys & gals take jobs site unseen and then get there and realise this is not for them.

You can ask advice from everyone on Prune, you are going to get some positives and negatives but at the end of the day, your the one that needs to make the decision on what it would be like working for AAA.

Good Luck

[Manual007]

I applied for this position but was rejected because i dont have an H' endoresement. good luck to the person who gets this gig i heard they are good people to work for. :ok:

[tmpffisch]

I had a little chuckle when I saw the requirement for 'a can do' attitude....we can all read the subtext........:=

[Manual007]

I don’t think that would be a good attitude in aviation..

[propblast]

So now not only do we need a pilots licence, we need to (I presume) pay for a H endorsement to get a job. Any chance of the company paying for this????

Other than that, run of the mill company for a first job. Should able to crank out a couple of hundred hours over the wet if your the lucky applicants. Jabiru = Boozer, backpackers, supermarket, leisurely 3 hour drive to Darwin on day/s off.

PS: What happend to the twin that they advertised on here as getting when looking for a CP earlier in the year? Paperwork was submitted to CASA if IIRC.

[Green_pilot_79]

may sound stupid but what is a H endorsement ???

[kalavo]

Hire or reward on your drivers license.

http://www.nt.gov.au/transport/taxi/pdf/info-bulletins/ibcpv05.pdf

[Manual007]

"can do" attitude sounds a'bit "cowboyish" lolll... maybe they are trying to say they want someone with a positive attitude :ok:

[Manual007]

Apparently many guys missed out because of small errors in their CV and only 4/170 applicants had H' endorsement on their northern territory drivers licence. These people where the best choice for the job I take it. He wrote up a huge reply and he seemed to be very frustrated at the people who applied for this position. A lot of sarcasm and smart ass remarks. Pretty much taking the piss out of us . Seems like these people where more interested in hiring bus driver rather than a 172 pilot..

[archangel7]

haha AAA charter?:confused: who cares.:ugh:They are probably the smallest aviation company in Australia!!!

They have 3 aircraft they are nothing special. There a many more operators out there who have quicker advancement into a twins and turbines. AAA have only single engines... JUST KEEP AT IT MATE you will be fine..

You seem like a good guy I'm sure something will come up soon. Try a company that has twin progression.. Message me anytime if you ever need advice. :ok:

[aileron_69]

Yes because flying twins is the most important thing in the world....

[The Green Goblin]

Yes because flying twins is the most important thing in the world....

When you're a GA Pilot with only single time, yes, yes it is :p

[neville_nobody]

He wrote up a huge reply and he seemed to be very frustrated at the people who applied for this position. A lot of sarcasm and smart ass remarks. Pretty much taking the piss out of us

Welcome to the wonderful world of GA. 10-15 years ago that's what about 75% of operators were like. Handing out resumes and the owner's saying he won't give you the keys to his car let alone his aeroplane, people telling you you can't fly (without even taking you for a check flight), why would I give you a job that guy you past on the way out has two logbooks etc etc. Many of them have gone broke or just closed down. Pretty much all of them have a some sort of personality problem and are quite often very small minded arrogant individuals. I still to this day haven't understood why they are in aviation. In most other industries they would eradicated or wound up in court.

Yes because flying twins is the most important thing in the world

Well unless you want to spend your whole life in GA piston singles yes it is the most important thing.

[mustman]

He wrote up a huge reply and he seemed to be very frustrated at the people who applied for this position. A lot of sarcasm and smart ass remarks. Pretty much taking the piss out of us .

Please post it or at least parts of it here. Would love to see how professional he is.:E

[j3pipercub]

Wasn't there a guy on Prune who was a CP for someone up there? Or am I thinking Kak Air?

j3

[HappyBandit]

Yeah j3 kakadu bob used to be on here not sure if he still is

[T80]

I would bet that the owner of AAA still goes through this forum so for those of you that got the not so nice rejection emails then tell him on here what you think of him and his use of the english dictionary. :ok:

[Stationair8]

Sound like a big time operation, three single engine aeroplanes and a smart arse owner!!

Imagine the check flight!

[kiwiscanfly15]

"three single engine aeroplanes and a smart arse owner!! "


fleet of seven, eigth is on the way (a twin)
I have had the pleasure of meeting the CP and found him to be a very pleasent guy. Great sence of humor, and seems like a genuine good bloke. i take the letter as constructive criticism and he seems like he is only trying to help, which is well within his personality type.

but everyones intitled to their opinions. but take it from me who has dealt with AAA, all involved are genuine good people and i would meet up for a beer at the local any day.

[j3pipercub]

fleet of seven, eigth is on the way (a twin)

As the old saying goes, when it is casting a shadow on the tarmac and the sticky label is in your logbook, that's when you believe it. But that will be funny to watch 15 pilots fighting eachother for twin hours...

And does this mean you got the job kiwi?

j3

[mustman]

Hopefully someone can take some positives from the email. Least he put the effort in and actually replied to job applications.

[kiwiscanfly15]

No i didnt get the job mate, i was 1 of the many who missed out but have had abit to do with Chief pilot AS & NK

And after reading the feedback in the letter i have edited my CV accordingly.

best of luck to the lucky 2 pilots who did make it though, im sure they will have a great time flying for AAA

[kiwiscanfly15]

Nah mate, i was one of the ones who recieved the rejection e-mail, but was happy to take the comments on the chin, and edited my CV accordingly

[The Green Goblin]

Look guys, no matter how you took his email.

1. It's rare that you will get an email back from any company at any level unless you're on the short list. I give him 10 points for that and some feedback is even rarer.

2. AAA stay below the radar most of the time and do their thing. It wouldn't be the worst company in the territory to be involved with. At least it is mainly charter. If you get a start now you will get some good wet season experience as it get's pretty wet in those parts.

3. I believe he had the best of intentions in his email and what he said is pretty true. I have seen some resumes from Pilots that (most) are an utter joke.

4. Regardless of the fact he does not have twins, you will get good experience, learn the territory VFR, get wet season time and be in a good position when clicking over the 1000 hour mark to get into a decent multi engine operator. When I was going through the system Skytrans were the ticket, It would seem Hardy Aviation now have this mantle in northern Australia for aspiring Pilots looking for multi engine time..

If it were me starting out and I saw an add like this, I would send him a 1 page resume, with a 1 page letter addressing the selection criteria. I would send it in a bound file by express post (rather than email) and tell him you'll be on the next flight, or in the car the moment you get the call from him.

What I have noticed with a lot of younger blokes these days is they have huge egos and have never worked a day in their life (some never even had after school jobs like we all did in the day). A little bit of life experience does go a long way IMO.

GG

[solowflyer]

I don't think there was anything in there that you would not find in all the job hunting threads on prune and and those who got the letter should take it on the chin take note and stop snivelling about it on prune the world is a cold hard place.

I have not had much to do with AAA but do know the opperation and are the perfect place for a new cpl holder to be looking for that first job, who cares if they only have a poxy 172 or 206 and no twins once you get the first 1000hr then worry about twins.

Why have they had to advertise for jr pilots in the first place judging by the number of applicants they should have no problem finding pilots surley they have guys knocking on the door every day looking for work. Sadley no, no one can be bothered anymore and want everything handed to them. Wake up everyone its the survival of the fittest and if you not prepaired to put yourself at the top of the food chain then you will get eaten by the guy that is.

[neville_nobody]

Not quite sure what the issue is here after reading his email......

He is actually giving some basic pointers out to those who want to listen. Better than being told how rubbish you are and the whole 'why would I employ you routine'.

However on saying all that I can't see why he just doesn't make the H endo a condition of employment. Hire the best people then tell them to get the car license. Like airlines do with ratings these days.

[struggler123]

How about this one..

A mate of mine applied for a job recently advertised on AFAP for tigermothworld, was told he was shortlisted an was sent out a questionnaire he had to fill out. Here it is cut an pasted:


Torqair Pty. Ltd. t/as Tiger Moth World Date completed ____________


Pilot assessment Form

Please complete in you own handwriting, if you need extra space write on the back.

1. Name: _____________________________

Please
Affix
Current
Photo
Here




2. Address: ____________________________
____________________________
____________________________

3. Ph: _____________________
Mobile: _____________________
Email __________________________________

4. Height __________ Weight __________

5. Date of Birth ______________

6. Do you smoke? ________ Drink? ________

7. Marital Status - Married / Partner / Single / Divorced / Other
____________________________________________________________ ____

8. Tell us a little about yourself (where you were born, brought up, your family, etc) and what have you done in aviation over the past 12 months.
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

9. What do your mum and dad do and where do they live? ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

10. Why did you start flying?
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

11. Did you pay for your flying yourself? ________________________________
How was it funded ________________________________________________

12. Do you think you received good training for dollars spent? Please explain
____________________________________________________________ ____

13. How many instructors did you have during your commercial training? ________

14. How many good instructors did you have? ___________ And, did you get
good, sound briefings on all facets?____________________________________

15. Do you understand Basic Aeronautical Knowledge? ________

16. Are you totally focused on your aviation career? ___________

17. What are your flying skills out of 10? ___________ Hrs to 1st solo? ________

18. Do you have your ATPL subjects. Or, how many? ______________________

19. Do you think you already have the required skill and training to fly for our commercial operation? ____________________________________________


Are you prepared to pay a bond should you require additional training by us to
get you up to speed? _______________________________________________

Over the past decade, we have found that the standards of flying training have dropped dramatically and we have had to provide additional training for many of the pilots we employ before we can clear them to line. This is not the pilots fault – this a failure of CASA’s ability to effectively oversee the training organisation.


20. Do you aspire to be a good stick &rudder / aerobatic / formation pilot and are
you prepared to get yourself endorsed for these when required? ____________________________________________________________ ____

21. Have you ever lived away from home before? ____________

22. Do you have a car? ____________________

23. What are your mechanical skills out of 10? ____________________

24. What are your PR/communication skills out of 10? ____________

25. Are you physically strong? ________________

26. Are you prepared to work at an independent location (eg Apollo Bay)? _______

27. Would you be happy working with Tiger Moth World for at least two years or until you obtain a min. 1000 hours? ________________________________

28. Are you: Self motivated? ______________
Active? ______________
An early riser? ______________

29. Flying is the most exciting thing we do but there are also many other facets to working at Tiger Moth World such as cleaning, maintenance of facilities, customer service, etc. As a result we need people who are happy to work effectively by themselves on these more mundane tasks. Please briefly explain your work ethics below: ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ______________________________

30. What is your main interest outside of flying? ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ ____________________

31. What other skills do you have (eg carpentry, mechanic, etc)?
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ __________________

32. Have you had any previous occupations (if so, what)?
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ __________________

33. Do you have any previous sales/marketing experience? __________________

34. Where do you see yourself:
in 1 year? _______________________________________________________
in 2 years? ______________________________________________________
in 5 years? ______________________________________________________

35. Are you able to work any days of the week, incl weekends? _______________

36. Do you understand what is happening in the airline industry of Australia and the
world? __________________________________________________________

37. Which airline do you aspire to fly for? (Circle) Virgin Jet Star
Qantas Cathay
REX Other______
Reasons Why? ____________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________ ____
____________________________________________________________ ____


Any other comments










Thanks! Please attach recent photo of yourself!

[PPRuNeUser0182]

If those tips had been posted directly on pprune you'd all be giving the :ok: and saying thanks for the pointers.

But no we have the typical sour mob who didn't get the gig slagging this gentleman off for taking the time to do what, I'm sure he thought at the time, was the good and decent thing!

And then you wonder why GA operators / recruiters treat applicants poorly...

I'd be surprised if this chap bothers next time. Why would you?

[struggler123]

From my friends dealing with this bloke I'd suggest anyone thinking about applying to think twice!!!

Most of the questions are relevant an understandable as to why he's asking but some are f$%&%g ridiculous an absolutely none of his business! especially the one about 'what do your parents do an where do they live'!


My mate went down for an initial chat all he did was talk about how pilots were f£$%^g stupid an how he's sick of stupid fkn pilots wasting his time, then when it came to a checkride was sworn at and abused for not flying up to standard. I can't comment on what his standard was actually like as I wasn't there but my mate was disgusted by the way he was treated!
From what I've been told this guy was nothing but rude and abusive, an they way he treated a keen wannabee is disgraceful an the guy should be ashamed!

[Jabiman]

From what I've been told this guy was nothing but rude and abusive, an they way he treated a keen wannabee is disgraceful an the guy should be ashamed!
Maybe this was part of the interview, especially if job involves customer service.

The only illegal questions in the application form was the marital status (you should refuse to answer) and the date of birth (put in only the date, not the year). And the part about smoking and drinking should also not be answered.

[FOD_Hazard]

Agreed GG, neville, IC and co. Grow up young gun, the points made in the rejection letter are all very valid.
The positives are at least you got a response and in that response he has offered a lot of helpful points that so many low timers should find very helpful. He could have easily typed up " Thankyou for your application unfortunately you have been unsuccessfull in this instance".
You have failed to state how many of the points you failed to meet? Did any of the points made in the reply apply to your application?

Can be pretty frustrating when an employer advertises a position and gets 100 applications of which 90% do not even meet the advertised minimums or cover letter is filled with basic spelling mistakes.


i think if i need advice ill get it somewhere else
What better place to get advice than from prospective employers? I assure you that the next potential employer you send your cv off to will expect pretty much the same. Doubt you will receive any other rejection letters offering so much constructive criticism.

[aileron_69]

FOD Hazard, mate you hit the nail on the head. I reckon it was good of the bloke to go to the trouble of listing what they look for in applications. If you blokes that got this reply are too arrogant to take advise that is going to help you in your next application then you dont deserve a job. The world doesnt owe u guys a job, you have to earn it, and until you can pull your head out of your ass and realise that, then you will never get far.
And all this crapping on about progression to twins etc. What a load of crap. If you have 250 hours and a CPL you need to wake up and realise that you arent going to be flying an airliner in the next 6 months, despite what your big city flight school told you to get you to train there. So just accept that you are going to have to degrade yourself to fly a plane with less than 100 seats for awhile, regardless of how awesome you think you are.
Unless you are hell bent on flying an airliner, then you wont necessarily need much twin time anyway. There is no shortage of excellent paying single engine jobs out there if you know where to look. Just remember, it doesnt matter how many steps you have to climb to get into the cockpit, at the end of the day, you are still just flying an aeroplane.

[dibloc]

Bugger....

....when you’ll have already missed the boat for AAA and others companies in...

:E

[AussieNick]

To those who got knocked back by AAA and yes i am one of those 168 who didn't get the job, its not going to hurt to take the advice given by the CP.

I have spoken to the CP face to face a few times and via email. He is a very level headed bloke, very easy going and more than willing to help out us new blokes and blokettes even if he won't give you a job. Most companies would not even bothered to let you know that you didn't get the job, let alone take the time to write up a list of common mistakes that were made

GG and others, the email mentioned stuff like

"Check your spelling and grammar. Many people didn’t get past this point! Most applicants claimed to have great or exceptional communication skills and yet over 80% of the applications contained basic spelling or grammatical mistakes. I know we are hiring pilots not writers; however it shows attention to detail which is a trait we value highly.

Quite a few applicants claimed C206 experience but didn’t say how many hours. We took it as approx 1hr! List total hours, total PIC hours and hours on each type somewhere near the start of your CV or even in the email text."

The CP told me these things personally about 2 years ago when I first bugged him, take it in good measure guys, it'll help out in the long run. Remember, he didn't have to go out of his way to help those of us who were not sucessful.

Also, a word of advice for those younguns on PPRUNE, the industry is a small place and reputations mean a fair bit. word travels quite fast about those who bitch and moan because they have to do a bit of work to get a job. Your adults, act like it. others can attest its almost impossible to stay anonimos on here....

[Hot High Heavy]

I agree also that the rejection email wasn't negative at all, in fact its great that a reply was sent at all.

I worked with AAA recently and found the place to be a good place to get that first gig. Sure there's 'only' a couple of singles but what else are you after or do you expect for the first job?? The guy takes low time pilots which i think is great but obviously he requires some extra attributes too. The H endo is necessary as there is bus work to and from the airport so just suck it up and get it.

You have to remember that these guys get lots of pilots breezing through looking for work. I've seen of the CV's etc when i was there and some of them were awful. The reality is, you need to set yourself apart from the other guys, whether it be in hours, personality, other skills or whatever.

The work is varied and you get cheap accom provided and Jabiru isn't a bad place to live. It gave me enough 200 time and a great intro into charter to move on to the next job which is great. Its been a great stepping stone.

I think there's a few rich kids around here that trained in their nice shiny, glass cockpit C172's, haven't done a day's work yet, that think that they are entitled to an amazing job in a huge company, flying twins after 2 months. If thats the case then stick to the cadetships as GA in the top end isn't for you! :}

[morno]

Clearly there's also a reason you're not either....

Take the advice. Stop being so f*cking arrogant.

Christ, kids these days.....

morno

[j3pipercub]

YEAH MORNO, HE'S NOT A KID, HE'S ALL GWOWN UP!

young gun,

Quit being a t00l.

j3

p.s. I think you'll find AussieNick has been up working in the top end for around 2 years. And I'm guessing he knows the owner by networking and keeping in touch with him. NOT by throwing his dummy out of the pram like you have done beautifully.

So good luck trying to break into the top end and network on here, you've already shown your true colors.

[AussieNick]

@ Young GunPilot:

This has been the only time i applied for an advertised position with this company, the other times i've spoken with the CP has been when they have been fully staffed, it's called networking.

I'm not even going to bother getting into and argument with you over my spelling and grammar on an internet forum vs my spelling and grammar on a formal email....

To those of you who did get in (if your reading this) enjoy the wet season, rumour has it it's going to be a doozie :)

[FOD_Hazard]

I guess morno was referring to the advice on offer in the email response you received. You sound like a kid. Each of your posts screams with immaturity.

Let me guess, your one of the guys who got knocked back because of grammatical errors in your CV? Well maybe you deserved to read it but not me budy....


Buddy is spelt with 2 D's douche bag. It would seem that possibly some of the points in the reply email may in fact apply to you. Maybe you should go check your cv and cover letter for spelling mistakes.

[j3pipercub]

younggun

Oh so you edited out your little 'suck me off' comment then, was that to avoid being seen as immature? Betcha didn't thunk anyone wud see huh?

Are you sure this isn't you?

YouTube - Angry German Kid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESMWrsK2hFM)

j3

[baron_beeza]

wow guys
your is not the same as 'you are',.... you're.
Similarly
Whose and 'who is',... who's
Who's vs Whose - e Learn English Language (http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/whoswhose.html)

Is it just me, or do other readers cringe with some of this stuff.
Education... say what !!
Pilot... more like Pillock

Google (http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&biw=1366&bih=616&q=Pillock&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=who%27s&gs_rfai=&fp=99615c9eb275f157)

Do we need a special Forum just for the Spotties.. ?

[The Green Goblin]

I'd describe you as something that lives in a metal box in my shed :=

I feel ashamed to be a Gen Y too (just)

[baron_beeza]

GG

I am of the old grumpy generation.
I can't get over the level of education. To and too.

Sure I can tolerate a little of the exuberance of youth but I cannot bring myself to comment on the content..... is it dribble or drivel ?
Either way it is not a good reflection on the younger generation of pilots.
I believe many are wannabes and dreamers.... that cheers me a little.
;)

Some of you guys are bringing a good balance to the thread, well done.
I don't see it as flaming.
I also worked for AAA.
My posts are directed at those that have not, - or cannot...
They can't for all too apparent reasons.

[young_gunpilot]

ohh yeh i can't get a 172 job because i am apparently immature, a tool, a generation y, rich kid, etc etc whats next?

I am actually very entertained by all this...

[Dreamflyer1000]

If you wish to blame Gen Y for things, fine, feel free. I am not ashamed. I am happier then you.. Physically and mentally. In my heart I’m just happy.... Be ashamed... that’s your problem. the point to your post?

Come on buddy. You said it yourself that you were a 'long time watcher first time poster', so surely by now you have realised that yes, there are some idiots on here, but the MAJORITY of people on here know LOTS of people. Aviation is a small game, and carrying on like this, may very well have just cost you work in Australia. I know of a number of CPs who browse these waters...
I also assume that because you have been watching for a 'long time' that you have seen many posts of people that are/have been waiting 12+ months with 100+ applications sent. It doesn't happen over night..

Suck it up, you didn't get through, take it on the chin, and move on. Apply the lessons learned to the next application..
But, you won't go far keeping up this attitude..

[onezeroonethree]

Why have they had to advertise for jr pilots in the first place judging by the number of applicants they should have no problem finding pilots surley they have guys knocking on the door every day looking for work. Exactly what I was thinking. Them, plus the job adverts a few weeks ago from one of the operators in Knx and also another in SA had me wondering why they even bother putting up adds on afap.

As for struggler123's post about the tigermoth world job with the cut and paste questionnaire...

Please Affix Current Photo Here
erh...
I'll let that one slip.
What do your mum and dad do and where do they live? What?
Did you pay for your flying yourself?
How was it funded Seriously? How about none of your business?

Now aside from this grammar-nazi **** storm that is occuring here with the trolls all I want to add is this: Good on the CP for writing back with some advice. As someone who just spent the earlier part (unsuccessfully in some ways) looking for my first GA gig I think its good that he at least took the time to reply. I think about 1 in 20 resume's I e-mailed out got replies with a "thanks but no thanks" and about 2 or 3 chief pilots in the whole of the WA (I searched AOC's and determined which companies were doing single engine scenics/charter work and contacted them on the phone before I left Melbourne) spoke to me for more than 30seconds. :ok: To them I am grateful because they didnt make me feel like "oh look another fkn fresh CPL sucker looking for work bothering me again...".

Having said that I popped into AAA mid this year and spoke with the CP back then (I believe there's a new one there). Spoke to the guy and another senior pilot and they were very friendly and it was a good experience.

Just my $0.02

[baron_beeza]

Quote:
'long time watcher first time poster'

Get your facts right before you waste your time posting. I dont know why you think I am a first time watcher..

Second, what attitude are we talking about here?

I was just giving my point of view.....

Hahahaha

Attention to detail
Hahaha

[archangel7]

Having said that I popped into AAA mid this year and spoke with the CP back then (I believe there's a new one there). Spoke to the guy and another senior pilot and they were very friendly and it was a good experience.


It seems alot of people visit AAA but no one gets given a spot or taken very seriously. Yet, he advertises on Afap for a single pilot position and then complains about some of the resumes. Why not get in contact with the guys who have popped in and shown they are interested rather then reading through 170 resumes? that can make a massive difference!

I feel for Young gun...As i used to be in this guys position back in the day... rejection after rejection and to top it off a reply like that from the CP can be very shattering and this can lead to depression and all sorts of other things. I don't blame him AND I think it was good for the CP to write up a reply but it was a bit unprofessional and seems to be taking the piss... and it was cut and pasted which makes it even more horrible...I guess you have to take the positives out of the negatives which isn't much but some old CP having a cry.

Keep your chin up YG! You have to follow your dream! and if that is to become a Professional Pilot, working for an Airline, don't let the negative posts on PPRuNe become a distraction. You will notice that not all Airlines require an educational degree as a pre-requisit, rather they are more interested in log-book hours and experience - Eg Rex. A Degree/Diploma may be looked more favorably upon when you are up against someone at the interview stage who hasn't got one.

There have been many Cadets put through the Rex Cadetship and while it is true they will need ICUS time to meet the 2000hrs Total Aeronautical Experience, and 500hrs Pilot In Command requirement stipulated by CASA before they can qualify and are able to act as a Captain, it will be a large load on the company with regard to resources, as ICUS time can only be logged with a Training Captain in the right hand seat. This could be in the vicinity of 8 months per Candidate. The point being, If you were to join Rex now, you'll be on the bottom of the Seniority List, and promotion is rewarded with reference to this list. (Many above you.)

Now for the Advice - If Aviation is where you see yourself, get fully qualified -CPL, MECIR, and complete the ATPL Subjects. (Possibly your Degree) That there alone without your degree from start to finish will cost in the vicinity of $80.000 privately, and a very SOLID years worth of work. Going up North is exactly what I recommend, as it gives you good experience and hours along with discipline. You will meet other Pilot's doing the same as you, who will become friends for life, remembering these people share the same passion as you do.

Aviation has always been up and down, however, the people who don't get the jobs are the ones who aren't willing to move and live in remote areas. Aviation at the lower levels requires a sacrifice to go further. Not only will it be a hard journey, you will have the best time of your life at the same time and will see places that only city folk could dream of seeing. When you build your hours up after a couple of years and apply to Rex or whoever it may be, you'll be applying for a direct enty roll, and not a cadetship. If you were to be employed with Rex for example, even though you will be on the bottom of the seniority list below the Cadets, when it comes time for an upgrade to Captain, you would be looked more fonldy upon as you meet the requirements for the Command without having to do the ICUS which there WILL be a wait for, for the reasons mentioned previously regarding resources.

Rex Cadetship Bond - 6 years. Rex Direct Entry Bond - 2 years. In my opinion, you will get a command quicker by applying Direct Entry keeping in mind that you will have had that remote, Single Pilot experience, along with that Single Pilot Command time in your logbook.

Final Thought - The People in Aviation who can't get jobs are usually NOT willing to leave home and put in the "HARD" yards. Flight instructing at a Capital is only in my view, a way of delaying the inevitable move up North. Remember, Have everything done before you move, that way once you have your hours, you can apply and start flying for an Airline straight away without having to do ATPL subject in between.

This is only my thought, AAA is not the only company. I wish you all the best, as I was 18 years old once, (Not too long ago) and the hole process was very daunting, but very worth while.


A7

[Dreamflyer1000]

Attention to detail
- or lack thereof
is quite amazing really is it not

dont know why i bothered

[j3pipercub]

Young gun.

Great way to edit post #42 as well mate! And just a question, if you 'accidentally' typed 'suck me off' into this window and hit submit, where did you intend to type that? The mind boggles...

The attitude you are displaying on this forum is one of a spoilt child who needs a kick in the ar5e. If you continue to display this attitude in the real world, you will get no-where in aviation. So you got a rejection letter that you didn't like, so what? Dust yourself off and keep trying, go and get a H license, never give up. It all depends how badly you want to fly. I know a guy who is flying red jets who kept EVERY rejection letter he got from GA to the airlines, I think the final count was about 60, so harden the f*ck up!

Alternatively, give up, go back south and tell everyone in the office you'll end up working in that you're a 'pile-it'. Your call.

I personally hope I never have to fly with you.

j3

[FOD_Hazard]

wrt your post 42.

Maybe the points in the email were not directed at you and your application. But think of the other 100+ applicants that it did apply to. This guy has done them a favour by taking the time to point out the deficiencies in their applications and offered them advice so that they may have a better chance with the next company they apply to.

Have you thought to reply to his email and let him know just how much he hurt your feelings? Or did you simply choose to attack him via an anonymous forum?

You say 3) HE NEEDS A THERAPIST!!! Think that in fact it may be you who needs therapy. Toughen up princess.

[no oil pressure]

Young gun,

As an old bloke once said to me "Another knock back; another step closer to your next job!"

Not trying to tell you how to suck lemons, but you need to grow a very thick skin in this industry. My second week in after scoring a job I was replaced, sacked less than two years later due to no work. Drove 500km in the middle of the night dodging 'roos to my next job for 30 hours of work, for which I was greatful for.

In the space of two years, I've had more knockbacks than you can count - just like yourself. Frustrating stuff I know!

Now I'm doing something entirely different for a few hours here and there. I haven't even hit 500TT yet. As you can tell, I don't get in the air much - just fill in here and there.

Take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Want to make it in this industry? Keep your mouth shut; chin up and keep on ticking away at those hours, no matter how hard it seems. If you quit trying now, some snotty nosed kid is going to walk straight into that job that could have been yours! I've seen it myself.

You've come this far, keep at it! :ok:

[Towering Q]

Apologies for slight thread drift, just attempting to lighten the mood a little on here.

Two of the original pilots from AAA when it was a Kalgoorlie based company.

Taken some time in 1996.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k176/towering_q/MrSheen.jpg

[birddog254]

Young gun, it is people like you we do not need in this industry. end of story.

To everyone else. thanks for the input, but i to was unfortunately unable to secure the position. Response email was satisfactory and helpful in my opinion.
Birddog

[Arnold E]

Response email was satisfactory and helpful in my opinion.Have to agree, looks ok to me:ok:

[baron_beeza]

Re the Kalgoorlie photo.

It would have been taken later in 1996... wasn't AL one of the original pilots ?

[Towering Q]

Correct. He was one of the A's in AAA! (Now flying a BBJ in HK.):eek:

[RYAN TCAD]

Steer clear of these pineapple pushers. That is, unless you enjoy taking it!

[Flying Meat Cleaver]

Good on this CP for trying to educate a few people. But don't take it personally. With 170 resumes you need to make a short list. Back in my GA time I spent much time behind a desk sorting through resumes of potential pilots for my CP.

So to make a short list out of 170 resumes, this is how I'd do it! Straight up, I'd cut the 100 that don't have a 'H' licence (which takes half a day because you are sorting through a tree worth of paper or an inbox of emails!). Obviously in this case the 'H' licence is something pertinent to that particular job. Now lets say of that last 70, 40 applicants have Cessna 206 time, then they go to the top of the pile. Time for lunch! Then of those forty you spend spend the rest of the day trying to find how many hours each one has and whether the experience is charter or hire and fly time. Might cut down the list to 30 by the end of the day for various reasons. Beer time. The next day, and by this time sick of reading resumes, I'd start to look more closely at the 30. By morning tea I would have cut that list down to 15 for many of the resons this AAA Cp has. I'd then put forward that 15 to the CP and he'd look through them and ring those who he deemed appropriate.

Those who didn't get a call would often call the office asking about their application. We'd basically do what this guy has done where required. It was in order to help them long term. If a pilot didn't have hours on his/her resume we'd explain that this is one of the things we need to know. If it was 10 pages long we'd explain that they should cut it down and direct it toward the skills and attributes need for a particular job. We would often get applicants thank us and reapply. Some would get a job simply because they listened, changed their resume (and in some cases attitude), and didn't give up.

So some of the 170 applicants will get angry and say this guy is a smart arse, and move on to look elsewhere for work. Some will go out and get a 'H' licence and reapply. Some will check and change their resume for next time, learning from what this guy has written. What is certain is that there will always be someone willing to do what it takes to get these jobs. Its all about choice.

Thats my say...

FMC.

[longrass]

The CP's response was a bit nicer than mine, which would have been NIL. If you can't spell, can't read and can't answer basic questions, how the **** am I suppose to trust you with a 150'000 aircraft.

[Cutter796]

Poor Young Gun,
sounds like someone needs a hug! :{
Should have been around in the 90's when "piss off" was the usual reply. I am sure the CP has better things to do than reply to all applicants but has done so WITH some good advice as how to better your chances of getting a position.

I really cannot see how you could take any of the advice he offered with such negativity and anger. I guess the flying school you where at only told you of the big shiny jet job you will get with your CPL licence. Then again, GEN Y have all the answers and refuse to entertain the voice of reason from those more experienced.

Don't bother with GA, J* cadetship is calling all you 200 hr experts. Strap on your uniform and take a trip down to the mall, that will give you a buck up!

[baron_beeza]

TQ, I reckon the other pilot at the time would have been Steve Manners,.... did he manage any length of time with A, A and A ?
;)

[aileron_69]

What is the difference between God and a new CPL Holder?

God doesnt think he is a new CPL Holder:E

[Professional Amateur]

Hmmm, how dare "that" CP give constructive feedback, what cheek;)

Anyway, I will be looking at going north (NT wise) in search of that illusive first gig early next year. I know what the wet season is as I have been to TSV and Cairns many a time. What I dont have is context.

From the BOM site:

Parts of the North-Queensland coast also receive significant rainfall throughout the cooler months. In the Top-End of the NT, the Bureau considers the wet season as being from 1 October to 30 April, while in some other parts of tropical Australia, particularly in WA, the wet months are often only from about January to March.

All good with that one, but......When should I look at arriving up there in order to start spreading the good word? Is mid March about right or is that too late?

thanks.

[The Green Goblin]

Depends on where you are going.

If you are talking WA and Kununurra in particular, you may not get hired until July and even then, your employment will finish up usually around September for the first season. If you arrive any later than March, you may leave yourself short missing the boat.

The reason being Pilot groups are formed at the backpackers, the CP usually has his cronies and hangers on licking his boots and plying him with beer. These guys tend to think they are above the others and will exclude anyone other than the chosen few to the best of their ability. The methods they will go to, and the bitching, rumour mongering and character defamation can be extreme to say the least. The new coming Pilots tend to keep a loose order of seniority from who arrived in town the first and who arrived last. The nickers do get a little twisted when new comers get a check ride and employment before a more 'senior' towny. You can bet you will lose your drinking buddies at gulivers when this happens. Once however you are on the other side (gainfully employed) the Pilots are pretty chilled out, they don't buy into the BS at the backpackers and are more interested in bitching about the particular company they work for (surprise surprise, it never finished from your first job on).

I'd suggest getting to town as early as you can and trying to become part of the network as soon as you can. Keep below the radar, avoid the boot lickers but don't go out of your way to cause trouble with them either.

[Professional Amateur]

So around mid to late Feb by the sounds of it?

Oh the politics sound fantastic.

No probs with staying out of that....Ill definatly keep my head down.

thanks

[Towering Q]

baron...that is indeed Steve Manners, can't remember how long he stuck around for.

The aircraft in the background are no longer around. MRZ, the 337, was 'stolen' by a Murchos employee and crashed on takeoff after he dropped into Lake King for a beer!:eek:

The Mooney, DXT, crashed on approach into Melita Station, killing both on board.

[The Green Goblin]

And I bet the RG up the front still wears the same paint, avionics and interior :p

[Jabiman]

the CP usually has his cronies and hangers on licking his boots and plying him with beer. These guys tend to think they are above the others and will exclude anyone other than the chosen few to the best of their ability. The methods they will go to, and the bitching, rumour mongering and character defamation can be extreme to say the least. The new coming Pilots tend to keep a loose order of seniority from who arrived in town the first and who arrived last.
No wonder becoming a cadet seems such a much more attractive option, even counting the $500 that Jetstar charge for the interview.

[Ozzie Mozzie]

even counting the $500 that Jetstar charge for the interview

i hope thats exaggeration for comic effect

[Jabiman]

No exaggeration, merely a simplification. This from their application process:

Our skills assessment team will take you carefully through the process (which can take up to a total of 2 days) which you will certainly enjoy and learn about yourself irrespective of the final result. At the same time you will also learn more about us first hand at our training centre. There is a total fee of $500 for the skills assessment process made up of: $300 for day 1 and another $200 if you progress to day 2.

[Hasselhof]

which you will certainly enjoy and learn about yourself

Ahhh see there you go, the $500 isn't an "interview fee", it's more like leisure time or perhaps a course for YOUR own benefit! I've seen the light!!! Seems silly really, I mean here I am, looking to be paid for employment, when what I should have been doing is looking for a publicly listed multi-national that could provide me a similar service at my own cost!

Last time I checked though $500 still bought a lot of beer down the pub and I've certainly managed to enjoy myself there... might have even learned something about myself too (Chartreuse, tequila, southern comfort and beer aren't a good combo in the during or after phases for example)

[meggo]

He told ABC radio it should be days and not weeks before the aircraft were declared ready for :ugh::=fly again.

"On three of the engines what we have found is :ugh::= slight anomalies. Oil where oil shouldn't be on the engines and we are just trying to check, what could the cause of that could be, :ugh::="Mr Joyce said

"These are new engines on new aircraft, they shouldn't have these issues at this stage so it's given us an indication of an area for us to focus into.:ugh::=

"It's too early for us to say what components or parts of the engine we think could have been the issue."

Qantas spokeswoman Olivia Wirth said two of the Rolls-Royce built engines were in Los Angeles.

"There are some engines being subject to further tests, but in line with normal procedure," Ms Wirth told ABC radio today.

"In Los Angeles, there are two other engines that have been removed and we've been inspecting those. :ugh: :=But this is, actually, common practice. It's how you can make sure that you're doing the right investigation."

Ms Wirth said the airline has passengers delayed in Los Angeles, despite still running a daily services operating :ugh::= to LA and London.

"We still do have daily services operating there. We still have a 747 fleet they're flying with,” Ms Wirth said.

"We are doing our best to get passengers stuck in LA home :ugh: := and everyone that :ugh:as in Singapore has now touched down in Sydney," she said.
Qantas A380 Rolls-Royce built engines undergoing more tests



From: AAP
November 08, 2010 12:17PM
Read more: Qantas A380 Rolls-Royce built engines undergoing more tests | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-a380-rolls-royce-built-engines-undergoing-more-tests/story-e6frfq80-1225949241041#ixzz14eSuugfG)

[bush mechanics]

Young Gun,
Just remember
The feet you step on today
Could be connected to the legs that hold up the arse that you might have to kiss tomorow.
In this industry you will have to learn to take your EGO being shattered from time to time.
The truth hurts,Take it on board and build from it
It can only make you a beter person for it

[j3pipercub]

So I'm guessing that Young Gun has taken his bike and gone home? Awesome.

[jackjack]

I swear first time I read this thread the original letter was posted in it. Does anyone still have a copy of it?

[anothertwit]

gotsta put my 2 bob in!

this is aimed at all you new cpl holders/ace fighter pilots, if you are not prepared to sweep the hanger or wash a plane then please do not bother to apply! if you have to drive a bus to get ya bum in a seat, DRIVE THE DAMN BUS!

back when i was a new cpl holder i thought i knew everything.....it wasn't until i got my first flying job that i discovered i knew absolutely jack sh#t about commercial flying!

take the man's advice, along with a slice of humble pie! and go and get some real world experience.....after all that you can come back and apologize for being such a twit! :ok:

that is all!!! :hmm:

[Setright]

I wish someone had given me this advice 30 years ago when touring the outback for my first job.