G day workers

[F_one]

Got a call from CC, even promised me G day call-out payment when I eventually listened to the message. Still I couldn't be bothered. Checked the roster later and some idiot obviously said yes on his G day (I checked his roster).

He didn't look close to 84H, once again cheap labour was used instead of the more expensive reserve rostered pilot close to his 84H.

To make matters worse, this guy is a member of the AOA. Why do I keep on saying no on G days just for some other idiot to accept and help CC out.

This must be why I never do overtime when on reserve, maybe I must start answering G day calls.....:ugh::ugh:

[Sqwak7700]

Maybe you could post his name on the AOA forums so we all know who he is. I think people will stop working G days when they realize that others know who they are.

[1200firm]

Name & shame.............

[Night Watch]

Also got called on a G day today. Checked the roster and the FO doing the flight hides his roster. Serial G day worker.... I'm assuming

[sorvad]

hey ..here's a novel idea...why don't you guys just do what it it is you want to do, and....wait for it...forget about who gets called instead of you.....accept that some of your colleagues might not have the same hypocritical, negative, whingeing attitude that you have, and accept that as individuals, everyone has a choice....If you are demanding naming and shaming of others then you be the first to show your true colours...and name yourselves.

you all talk about working as a group as a whole, so those of you approaching overtime, who will not entertain the idea of a g day call for long haul trip that nets you a few thousand $HK..then hats off to you..I admire your principles...I think many on this forum however arent in that bracket....for you others...stop fretting about what everyone else is doing, do what you feel is right and stop moaning

[Lord Spandex Masher]

G day workers

G'day boss.

[Old Fella]

Maybe those of you who whinge about being asked to work on a rostered "G" day ought to remember that you are not compelled to accept. It is, afterall, a request. Maybe you would rather a scheme where you spent a roster period solely on Reserve. I never was a fan of the AOA but I knew it was a matter of choice also. If Cathay Pacific is such a rotten employer why don't you go work for someone else, I'm sure there is a Utopia somewhere. There again, maybe not for some of you. I'm with Sorvad on this one.

[duyentranvan]

yeah go somewhere else if you're not happy.

[routetuner]

Totally agree.

[duyentranvan]

F One must be an aussie with attitude

[F_one]

Thank you for all the insightful contributions. Just more prove that the AOA will never be able to stand in unity.

With people like you expect further degrading of conditions, no pay increase, tougher FTL's.

And when this all happen, don't bitch about it on the line. Suck it up like the big boys you are.

[sorvad]

uh, F one...in case you havn't noticed..we're the ones who don't bitch about it on the line

[Old Fella]

Duyentranvan. Sorry to enlighten you, having an "attitude" is not the sole province of Aussies.

[F_one]

Sorvad

Please read my post again, i said "on the line", which is vastly different from "on line".

My original quote refers to whilst at work, busy flying. You in a very vein attempt to make some sort of vague point refers to doing it here on the www.

But please don't worry, even you will grow up one day. :rolleyes:

[cxlinedriver]

I am all for individuals making their own choices and doing what they consider is best for them. I am also very opposed to any form of intimidation - company, union, one-on-one BUT....

By working G Days one is only pushing the pineapple up ones own six (this fun is normally reserved for our managers).

If you work a G day you take overtime pay away from someone else. If the company pays too much overtime it becomes cheaper for them to promote. So by working a G day in the short term you cheat someone out of overtime and in the slightly longer term you cheat someone out of a promotion.

For each promotion there is a knock effect of another promotion and more recruitment - the whole food chain moves up a notch.

Don't work a G day unless it is the last day of the roster, the trip is a long one and you are already in overtime!

[sorvad]

F one....perhaps you should re read my post before you spout forth....T@$$£r

[Toe Knee Tiler]

You know all we have to do is stick together and if we don't then the consequences are diabolical.
Do you really think that CX will one day surprise us with a pay rise that we did not expect.
The answer is NO.
Did this company, the company that withheld a 13 month "discretionary" bonus and then make a massive profit say to its' staff. "Well we were not actually sure how much profit would be made during the GFC and so we withheld the 13 month. However, as we have made an outstanding profit, we have decided to pay that month to you. And by the way well done."
No No No they said " here is an advance payment on your future profit share."

These accountants who call themselves managers are only in it for themselves.
They will keep taking from their colleagues to feather their own nest and unless we make a stand we are doomed.

It sickens me to read some of these posts, most of which are probably written by the "I will retire at 40 brigade."

SORVAD:


HERE IS A GOOD IDEA:-
You pull your head in as you are cutting your nose off to spite your face by supporting G'Day workers.
And by the way join the union and support your fellow aviators.
If you want your salary and benefits to erode just stay the course and do nothing but do not knock those that are working for your payrise, if any.

OLD FELLA:

Well you should know better. I am sick and tired of being disturbed in the early hours of the morning on my G'Day to see if I would like to take the salary of those high houred reserve pilots. On reserve you get messed around and therefore have a right to earn some extra cash. It shouldn't go to some selfish individual with a cash calculator next to his phone.

DUYENTRANSVESTITE:

You are just some idiot newbee, probably a management suck in line who has nothing to say. You will fit in well in line ops.

Go Away.



F ONE:

Man I am with you. G'day workers are going for short term gain for long term pain. They will learn one day but it will be the hard way. Doing their mates out of money, If hey have a command they are delaying the commands of others. If they don't have a command they are delaying themselves. These guys need Tossco's "Big Picture" and sleep with it. Nothing will change unless change happens among the ranks.

CX LINE DRIVER:

Well said old fella. Next thing that these juveniles, who work G'Days, will say is "where is my Command".
AND DON'T GET ME WRONG I have witnessed very senoir captains who openly brag about undermining their mates for a few scheckles.

G'day workers are a bunch of greedy toss pots who should remember that when they are on 84 hrs and have a couple more reserves to do that some body some where will whip the carpet from under their feet for their own self greed.

SORVARD YOU REALLY ARE A SAD T@SSER!!!



TO ALL OF YOU:

Show some unity

The HKAOA asks of us one thing.


WEAR YOUR LANYARD so that we are seen to be seen!

[duyentranvan]

TKT,you're a ******.. just like F One

[Bye Bye Baby]

At least he made a point, supported by his views. Not just a pathetic little name caller like yourself.

[fly123456]

What we need is a rule that states "no pilot on G (or O) day will be called out instead of a pilot on reserve, for the sole purpose of avoiding or reducing EFP"

But then, hey, I know a rule similarly phrased. And CC probably often forget it exists.

[411A]

As can be noted from the various responses, CX guys can't agree on the time of day, never mind anything else...no wonder they are such a pushover, versus the company.
The company could, for example, trot out the 49er program once again, and nothing could be done about it...:rolleyes:

[SOPS]

This man needs help..please someone stop him !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[The Wraith]

411A,
Why don't you just piss off and enjoy your sad little life elsewhere?
Nothing at CX has anything to do with you whatsoever, and so your constant interfering and commenting simply smacks of desperation, desperation to be noticed by someone, anyone, and also a desperation to bring ANY meaning to your life. You may feel you are being clever and insightful, but actually you are just making a public laughingstock of yourself.
By all means stay, but people really are just laughing at you and you are making a monumental fool of yourself.
:confused:

[sorvad]

TOE KNEE TILER

You may want to be certain of your facts before you point fingers...I am in the AOA and have been for the best part of 9 or 10 years, but its militant T@$$£rs like you who have often made me want to leave ....the reason being that you intimidate people...not me you understand, but the very people the union would like to join their fold...namely new joiners...usually they have come from the UK or Australia, the U.S or new Zealand, Canada or Europe, where in their previous lives they have been represented by a PROFESSIONAL body who, whilst encouraging their membership in order to benefit the greater good, respect their choice as individuals. Then they come to Asia, join Cathay, and hope that with the AOA, they might get the same un-biassed Professional representation they have had in the past...but....very soon, sometimes even before they join, they are exposed to the litany of backbiting hypocrisy and negativity, personified by the likes of you TKT using the umbrella of the AOA....you remind me of some of the more odious characters in the recent history of unrest at Cathay....

Its people like you who on one hand demand unity, but on the other, in times of strife, would sooner see a colleague ...(from whomever or whenever they joined ) lose their job than take so much of the smallest hit yourself

Its people like you who will slag off someone for taking a DE command but wont have applied for it yourself

Its people like you who will bemoan guys for staying on beyond 55 when you will go as long as you can yourself

Its people like you who would harrass wives of SO's joining during less opportune times some 8 years or so ago accusing their husbands of being scabs

Its people like you who told us as freighter new joiners when we weren't on flight pay( but everyone else was) when asked where our money would be coming to fund the 49ers, to wind our necks in as we were all in the same boat ( we weren't..as freighter crew we were totally ignored)

Its people like you..in fact..IT IS YOU.who recommends if a pay rise is awarded, that it be for AOA members only!..can you believe it...is this the voice of the greater good?..would you ever get this sort of bile from a representative of a professional body like BALPA


In short , its people like you TKT who profess to being on the side of your fellow man but who are so far up your own arse that you cant see that your fellow man might have somewhat different opinions to your own

[411A]

Sorry, The Wraith, but the below listed comment about says it all about many of the FD malcontents at CX...
Its people like you..in fact..IT IS YOU.who recommends if a pay rise is awarded, that it be for AOA members only!..can you believe it...is this the voice of the greater good?..would you ever get this sort of bile from a representative of a professional body like BALPA
In short , its people like you TKT who profess to being on the side of your fellow man but who are so far up your own arse that you cant see that your fellow man might have somewhat different opinions to yours

One can only ROFL at some of the antics of the CX...'pilots'.:p

[Old Fella]

I do not often agree with 411A, especially in matters critical of Cathay Pacific, however he is on the money this time in my opinion. I am disappointed and somewhat bemused by the whingeing and bitching by a number of posters on this forum. My first question to those with a problem with their conditions at CX is "How bloody good was it where you were previously employed"? Surely the whingers are adult enough to have asked the appropriate questions before accepting a position with CX. Why do you stay if your life is so stressful in CX employment? I suspect the whingers are a small proportion of CX crew who would be whingers no matter where or by whom they were employed. The old adage "If you can't stand the heat you should get out of the kitchen" seems appropriate to me. Those who are not whingers would probably be pleased to see the last of you. :ugh:

[ChuckECheeze]

So who really is entitled to EFP? The fight is over additional pay given out by CC only - no free market between pilots (those who want more work/more pay and those who want garanteed 84 hrs). And what about the Company? Shouldn't they be able to spread the hours out - if they pay everyone on 84, and some turn out to work 74, why shouldn't they ask the 74's to pick up a sector or two - before paying those up and beyond 84 to fill the need? I understand the mechanics of filling in on a G-day if NOBODY else is available - yes, they need to hire more people. And if they need to do that, then those near the seniority line will get to upgrade earlier, maybe. But our Company's upgrade path is anything but fluid, and maybe there are some who would like some extra pay. So when it comes down to brass tacks, it's one guy on reserve, on or into overtime versus another guy on a Gday in the same situation, both wanting that extra pay. Who "deserves" it? CC decides who they ring up. There is nothing in the contract that entitles anyone to EFP over someone else. If I'm the Gday guy, why should I say no, so you get the EFP instead of me? If the Gday guy takes the CC offer because he's close to or over 84, just relax and enjoy your time off.;)

[FO4EVA]

Sorry to interrupt the squabbling....

I also recently received a G day callout promising the callout fee, however I AM in overtime this month. How then would that be perceived if I accepted the duty (I didn't)? For those saying we should "name and shame", how can you tell if that person working their G Day is already on overtime, thus negating the issue of stealing EFP from someone on reserve?

[nitpicker330]

I think Old Fella and 411A should hold hands, jump in their trusty old L1011 and fly quietly into the Arizona sunset. :zzz:

It's 15 years since Old Fella worked in CX as an A scaler ( says he's 70 ) in what was quite a different "Aero Club" to what it is now.

As for 411A????????? You apparently have a gazillion hours on the L1011, congrats but that doesn't give you any special insight into the CX Flight Deck anymore than I know anything about yours.

So, keep you opinions to yourself gentlemen.:=

[broadband circuit]

I also recently received a G day callout promising the callout fee, however I AM in overtime this month. How then would that be perceived if I accepted the duty (I didn't)? For those saying we should "name and shame", how can you tell if that person working their G Day is already on overtime, thus negating the issue of stealing EFP from someone on reserve?

In any case, FO4EVA, the point of the thread (I think) is that you would've been a cheaper option than the reserve call.

Credit to you for not accepting the duty. You're probably smart enough to realise that they would've done their best to reduce your EFP later in the month anyway.

[411A]

So, keep you opinions to yourself gentlemen:=

Not likely to happen.
However...having said this, NOW is the time for the CX pilots to start to turn the screws for more big time dollars.
IE; The company is hugely profitable, and they have the resources to dole out the dough.

The question then remains...are the CX pilots (collectively) up to the task?

I suspect...NO.

We await for the outcome...:rolleyes::E

[fly123456]

What about we do what suits us best as individuals until the AOA calls for CC?

It would be an even more powerful action if everybody was working on their G's before CC, then all of a sudden, nobody does it anymore.

[Old Fella]

nitpicker330 The fact that I have not worked for CX for over 15 years, longer actually, has nothing to do with the principles I hold. CX gave me a job with conditions I accepted. As for being part of an Aero club, you are talking out your fundamental orifice. We worked hard, got paid a just salary and were treated well. As I said, if you can't stand the heat you should get out of the kitchen. You obviously thought you were on a good thing when you joined, so what has changed. Maybe 411A and I are old farts, but we know a lot more about company loyalty than you appear to. Maybe you are just a whingeing whimp so, up yours pal.

[The Messiah]

You obviously thought you were on a good thing when you joined, so what has changed?
Plenty in my ten years. Just briefly........

New COS imposed, yearly hours raised to 900 from 700, no significant rise in incremental pay scales whatsoever, forced freighter flying, paxing on the freighter, significantly extended time to command, and 49 pilots sacked "for no particular reason". This is just a snippet of what has changed since I joined. Maybe you have been away from the coalface too long Old Fella.

At this point the bucket of gold is still bigger than the bucket of sh1t for me, but not by as much as it was when I joined.

[Old Fella]

Thank you Messiah for your points. Yes, I have been away from the CX family for a longtime, not long enough however to forget how I was treated and the enjoyment I derived from my employment with CX. You also have, in a sense, supported my arguement in so far as you have determined that the Bucket of Gold still outweighs the Bucket of Sh-t for you and thus you are still with CX. The people to whom I addressed my question of why they are still there obviously do not share your view, and have determined that they do not have the will to vote with their feet and go somewhere else. That is a cross they have to bear and I just wish they would not continually bitch and try and convince everyone else that CX are an employer of slave labour. This whole arguement has gotten away from the original question regarding working on G days which, as I said before, is a request by CC and one which can simply be declined if that is how they feel.

[The Messiah]

Fair enough :)

[CodyBlade]

How about a new thread titled:''The Good Ole' days''?

Not to compare beans,etc but for the nostalgic,misty eyed here.

I remember in 1987..

[The Wraith]

Old Fella,
A lot has changed since your day, and I daresay the airline was a far better place to be in your day too.
What goes on here now beggars belief, and most can only wish for the times you enjoyed. Then, no doubt, it was an airline and job to be proud of.
Nowadays, the management border on the criminal....just look at some of the recent court cases....and certainly whilst still a good job, it certainly isn't the way it was.
So, with all due respect, when you call today's CX pilots whingers etc you really are showing your ignorance to the conditions they now work under.
:sad:

[Farman Biplane]

Thank you Old Fella,
You have inspired me to familiarise myself with the blocking feature available on PPrune.
Now, i will not have to read your outdated/2nd hand/faded memory comments on issues that are trying to be aired as relevant to current/future employees.
You really did sell your soul to them if you are still whinging on this forum during your later Old Fella years!
Ciao dude!

[Captain Dart]

Old Fella, I'm in my third decade with the company myself,and I'm sure that you recall the advertisement depicting the 747 in the cruise with Barry White's 'Love's Theme' playing, the scones, jam and cream served to the First Class passengers on Australia flights (yep, First Class is long gone, there), all flight crew on A scales with some respect for management, decent profit sharing, a piss-up at the boss's house on the Peak every six months and in return we worked the occasional G day and even volunteered to help out during typhoons .

But this is PPrune and I still like the occasional whinge so here goes; I like to whinge about:

Continued attacks on flight crew conditions of service since the start of Red Oddington's tenure

'Sign or be fired' (which by management admission cost the shareholders half a billion, and indirectly led to the appalling and expensive 49ers situation, which is STILL going on in the courts) from David Downturn

Little Philip turning what was once 'Asia's Airline' (remember the ads emphasising 'our flight attendants are from ten (then eleven) different Asian lands'?) into 'Mong Kok Airlines'

And now the war on its crews continues from current management, who have also continued to let what was once a world-beating airline, what could have been Asia's airline, identifying with 2/3 of the population of the planet, slide into a nondescript 'niche' carrier offering dreadful seats, linguistically- and culturally-challenged contract cabin crew, catering a shadow of its former self, and cadet pilots who haven't done the hard yards anywhere with the prospect of having to land the whole shebang in a Typhoon 3.

And the young guys and gals with me in the cockpit, putting up with the B.S. we were once paid A-scale to put up with, Commands now determined by 'dead mens' shoes', and many of them trying to raise families on B, C, and Z scales have certainly got a lot more than I have to whinge about, so at least grant them that privilege.

All in all, a crying bloody shame.

[Captain Dart]

Jizz, if you read my post properly I stated I am in my third decade; that doesn't mean I have been in CX 30 years (God forbid); it means that I am somewhere between 21 and 31 years in the company.

And I'm not yet 55, so put a sock in it. I hope that your flying is of a higher standard than your reading comprehension :rolleyes:.

[The Messiah]

....and so the crap continues :D

[Old Fella]

CodyBlade, Farman Biplane,Wraith & Captain Dart. I accept that things obviously are different in CX these days compared to what I remember. Common Jet Salary replaced B707, L1011 and B747 pay scales in the early 1980's, Profit Share was introduced and it was to our mutual benefit to "put in" as far as effort went. That this is no longer the case is sad, however it still amazes me that if CoS are as bad as it is claimed that any of you are still in HK or wherever you may be based. I know that it is very difficult to be really enthusiastic in what you do if you are not happy doing it. This thread all began with a comment regarding working "G" days and has descended into an all out bitch session. One thing is certain, as Captain Dart puts it, "It is a crying bloody shame". CX is not what it once was but I'll bet there are many other airlines far worse than CX. That said, there must be somewhere for those truly unhappy to go and maybe feel better treated. Oh, and by the way Farman Biplane, I didn't sell my soul to CX but rather I could tell the difference between CoS at my previous employer compared to those at CX. It seems that some on this forum cannot.

[Flap10]

Old Git,

You must be as dumb as a door nail if you're only argument to date is,


if you can't stand the heat you should get out of the kitchen


Management, dictators, and the likes love your kind, take it up the bum and never complain, pretend others are far worse off than you and accept it.

It's a good thing it was the generation before yours that fought brave wars. God help us if future generations had to rely on gutless obedient wimps like you.

[Old Fella]

Flap 10, I may be old, but sure not dumb. At least not dumb enough to "take it up the bum" as you so eloquently put it so as to stay where the CoS are as bad as claimed. As for fighting wars, I did my bit in SE Asia and can back it up. Nothing gutless about being satisfied with the CoS I had which were exceedingly better at CX than in the military. I think getting out of the kitchen is a fair enough thing to do if the heat is too much or maybe it is you who is the gutless and insecure wimp too afraid to try for something more suitable to your needs.

[Captain Dart]

Suck it up, Messiah, you still read the thread and took the trouble to post, didn't you?

Flap 10, even I found your post offensive, I apologise on your behalf to Old Fella.

O.K., let's get back on thread: DON'T WORK BLOODY G DAYS!

[Captain Boers]

This thread is quite pathetic drifting from abuse from those that know no better, to starry - eyed nostalgia from those that possibly could have stopped much of what troubles us today had the C&Ters led from the front when the erosion of CoS started.

The question and the answer is simple. ANY G-day working gets the Company out of a bind. If the aircrew body is serious about putting pressure on those that control their lives the ONLY way (unless your balls are big and stress level impervious to life) is to ensure that you do not put yourself in a position of having to 'decline' a request from CC.

How? Simples! Do I really have to spell this out: no checking of Crew Direct, get yourself a dedicated 'work tel number' and delete all others from the system. Finally, get yourself a tel answering device that will allow you to vet incoming calls. It really is quite simple. The bottom line is that you either want action or you don't. Decide - and do not wait for anyone to have to tell you to do this. Establish a pattern NOW.

It will involve pain. If one doesn't want pain quit the whining and just enjoy life.

So stop the bickering and the disrespect. Those on this thread that are affected - decide what you want and act accordingly. Those of you who are not directly affected - take a hike and find another thread.

Back to the Coffee Shop :ok:

[Toe Knee Tiler]

Sorvad

Wow what an angry fellow pilot.

I think a phone call to the Employee Assistance Program would be a recommended start for you.

Things are a little tense for you at the moment and you may need help.

It will help you when things get a little tough.

TKT

[4 driver]

There is no need for a dedicated "Cathay Number".
If CC calls and ask for "John/Bill/Nigel", simply say "he's not here"
been doing it for years.....

[Mooseflyer]

So WTF is wrong with just "NO"? No excuses, no "he's not here", no "oh, sorry wrong number", etc. How about "I don't work G days, don't call me agian on a G day". Get some balls, men! It's f'cking shameful! What I wouldn't give to see CX pilots stand up for themselves, just once!!! 4Driver, this is not directed at you, so don't take offense.

[jed_thrust]

Regarding

If CC calls and ask for "John/Bill/Nigel", simply say "he's not here" been doing it for years.....

The latest hot rumour is that our wonderful leaders have "invested" in a voice recognition software for our calls to and from crew control.

Don't know if it's true and don't care: it would be just like them to do that rather than start managing the company properly.

:(

[ASARP]

All very well proving how brave you are by answering the phone preparing to say "NO" .... But remember that it could well be a future O Day they are after or bringing that Reserve or Reserve call out forward. If you are given 12 Hours notice you have just monumentally shot yourself in the foot.

It is also not unheard of for that emphatic "NO-SORRY" to a G Day request to find its way onto your P.File with a special note from the Crew Control Supervisor questioning your unwillingness to help.

Much easier just to let the phone ring out and pick it up the minute your reserve starts ... or if you really want to go to work on a G Day pick up a Proffer. If it is anything longer than a TPE you will be much better off than a G Day call out... and you will help out a colleague (strange concept hey!)

[4 driver]

MOOSE.....primarily referring to O days, etc when if they get you, they get you.....good point though. No offense taken.

[Hellenic aviator]

The latest hot rumour is that our wonderful leaders have "invested" in a voice recognition software for our calls to and from crew control.

Are you serious? They haven't invested in switching from paper tickets to e-tickets which other leading carriers have already done - you think they'd waste money on VR software? :hmm:

The choice is simple. Don't answer the call or, if you do, a polite "No I cannot because I feel fatigued" will alleviate any further questions. It's recorded so they won't push any further.

Why would anyone work for that pathetic G day compensation is beyond me :yuk:

[Old Fella]

I know this is a "Rumour Forum" but the suggestion by Jed Thrust regarding "Voice Recognition" software is about as fanciful as getting 100% membership of the AOA.