ATC In The USA

[MightyGem]

I was SLF in the US recently, flying a number of trips with United. You can listen in to ATC in the cabin, and on a number of occasions our aircraft was given clearance to land before the one in front had landed, and the one behind us was cleared to land before we touched down.

It obviously works, but I'd be interested in UK ATCers comments.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

It's the way they do it over there. Closest we get here is when one touches down and the one behind is told "land after" but it's only used for the next aircraft to land when the one ahead has landed.

There are two versions of the clearance - first where ATC gives the pilot the option to land if he considers there is sufficient room by saying "land after..." and the second is where ATC retain responsibility for separation by saying "After the landing, cleared to land" when particular requirements in terms of distance down the runway, etc., have been met.

[elandel]

Bren,

I think that has just changed - it was too confusing for the pilots (and me in my time!). I think they only now have 'land after' - I'm sure Gonzo or one of his chums will give us chapter and verse.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK.. thanks. Be interested to hear more.

[Crazy Voyager]

In the US ATC is allowed to work with the concept of "anticipated seperation". That means that if the distance is good enough they can anticipate that when the enxt aircraft lands, the one ahead will have vacated and therefore they can clear the one behind to land even though the runway at that moment isn't clear.

I hope that makes some kind of sense :P

The onlything similar I know of is "reduced separation" that is allowed (in Sweden anyhow) at certain airports under certain conditions (regulated in the Local Operatin Procedures). Usually it's only between light or light and medium aircrafts in VMC, daylight, no contanimation on the runway etc. In those cases you can sometime allow an aircraft to land or takeoff even though the runway isn't free yet.


That's how I've understood the concept anyhow, but as always with my posts, I'm no ATC, just a wanabee :O

[airseb]

you have this in CDG also, depending on certain met conditions (visibility, xwind, ceiling, runway contamination...)

you can be cleared to land with the preceding not yet landed. I only fly into the place so I guess some ATCO from there can fill in.

airseb

[crispey]

MightyGem you could try listening to liveatc.net on the web to see how it's done.It might be informative,if a little alarming at times.KSFO is particularly entertaining with simutaneous parallel westerly runways landing and at the same time a northerly runway used for take off.