who has the best controllers?

[IIcyrusII]

Hey

Im not trying to start a wierd contest here :E but I was wondering in which places in the world have the reputation for the best controllersk, in terms of efficiency, service, proffessional behaviour and so on. Would be nice to hear both pilot and controller point of view.

[Kiwi Expat]

Well I believe Sydney ATC are the 2nd best in world!:}

[Brian 48nav]

The UK hands down!

[Brian 48nav]

Was that the old TWA (I think!) pilots words? Anyway some American!

[BrATCO]

Im not trying to start a wierd contest here http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

Could you be more precise about what you're trying to start ?

The answer seems to be obvious : each controller is the best/worst to work the sector(s) he/she is qualified on.

[gunbus]

EGMC without a doubt,at least when DT DD CW(best gca job)PC were there,they know who they are.Never see the likes again.

[aluminium persuader]

Gunbus, I know where two of them are!

[gunbus]

lumipers,

pm me if you wish

gunbus

[chevvron]

Len Vass told me he was asked to confirm a quote by a pilot during a TV interview with Reg Turnhill, the quote being 'when you pass Abbeville and hear the voice saying 'this is London Control' it's like a return to sanity'!
Len told me he refused to answer and the quote was never broadcast.

[Desert Hunter]

Unfortunately, some rather misguided individuals in the industry think that quality Air Traffic Control starts and ends with those individuals who have participated in working in 'high density' facilities (sausage machine ATC broken into nice manageable chunks). :ugh:

[doubleu-anker]

The controllers at Amsterdam would take some beating.

Was awaiting takeoff clearance one sunny day in the queue, when tower were working, 3 different runways and two banner towing Piper Cubs, overhead the field at 1500', transiting to the beach. I was impressed anyway and they spoke English and English, that i could understand.

I commented to the crew, "Can you imagine that happening at LHR or LGW?!"

[Spitoon]

I commented to the crew, "Can you imagine that happening at LHR or LGW?!" Maybe at LHR a few years back but never at LGW.

[Nock]

Could you be more precise about what you're trying to start ?

The answer seems to be obvious : each controller is the best/worst to work the sector(s) he/she is qualified on.

I think that's the answer, but I would really be interested to know what your aim is with such a subject!

[MancLad993]

Gunbus,

I know where DD is and I completely agree one of the best about!

ML

[ChronicSuppo]

In Europe, according the ACE benchmark report, Maastricht UAC is BY FAR the most efficient.

[airpolice]

Edinburgh, never been refused a transit despite them being the busiest in Scoptland. They always do whatever they can to integrate ALL the traffic and they do it with fairly limited resources.

[BrATCO]

As you can see, Nock, the mayonnaise is "taking"...

Which means, for the non Frenglish speakers, that the weird contest is coming, we won't avoid it.



There are two kinds of controllers :
- Those who think they haven't and they will never make a mistake.
- Those who know their job.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

"Those who know their job".. very wise words BrATCO.

I've seen a total idiot making a mess of a couple of light aircraft and some true super beings working busy TMA traffic who really knew what they were at.

[Mooncrest]

Got to fly the flag for EGNM. Stymied by inadequate taxiways, frequent lousy weather, relatively high commercial movement rate, flying club and helicopter training, lots of zone transits, no ASMI and no GMC. Tower only ! Plus radar downstairs of course. And they still sound happy. Wish I worked there.

Leeds Bradford gets my vote.:ok:

[belk78]

i don´t know who has the best controllers, but i do know who the best company boss is.


EU urged to ban air traffic controllers from right to strike: theparliament.com (http://www.theparliament.com/latest-news/article/newsarticle/eu-urged-to-ban-air-traffic-controllers-from-right-to-strike/)

[BrATCO]

In 1973, French controllers didn't have a right to strike. They did go on strike.
See the result ?

BBC ON THIS DAY | 5 | 1973: Mid-air collision kills 68 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/5/newsid_4202000/4202039.stm)

Overpressure valves should see their "right to open" removed too. Why lose pressure ?

As always, the best (and only) way to avoid a strike is to remove the reason for the strike.

[belk78]

careful mate, o´leary could hear that and have you killed.

[His dudeness]

A comparison between controllers? Really a hard thing to do.

London airspace surely is different to Amsterdams. Efficency in an upper airspace center is way easier to achieve than in a terminal area, isn´t it?

However, a real good controller is the one that does not kill my pax and me, and prevents me from doing so. That might be in a super busy circuit or airspace or a remote tower in the middle of nowhere.

All the extras like directs etc. are nice to have, no doubt, but are just that.

Having said that, I really enjoy flying in EHAM from time to time. Most accomodating guys them Dutch, even if I hate their camping cars on MY Autobahn. :O
Swing into 22? No prob mate. Can we get 27 instead of 18R? Yeah sure, turn now...and some guys humor is just cracking...

[Cafe City]

'when you pass Abbeville and hear the voice saying 'this is London Control' it's like a return to sanity'

Must be the equivalent of Siera when we return to Hong Kong.

[trafficnotsighted]

It has got to be EGHE (Isles of Scilly) as the last time they advertised for ATCO's
they said they could provide the application form in braile if needed.
Any Airport that can operate with blind ATCO's has got to be good.;)

[10W]

In Europe, according the ACE benchmark report, Maastricht UAC is BY FAR the most efficient.

True, but then the report is written by Eurocontrol statisticians so it's unlikely for them not to find a set of criteria which will promote their own UAC :8 Much of their criteria and comparisons I find have no bearing on the real job of doing ATC, wherever that may be in the world.

[BrATCO]

Whatever the criteria, no-one could benchmark ATC operations. I'm qualified on only 11 different sectors, they are all different. Still more different when split vertically. How could one benchmark that ?

To benchmark APP, there should be similarities. Where are they ?
EBBR, EBCI, EDDF, EDDK, EGLL, EGKK, EHAM, LFPG, LFPO, LFQQ, EBBR... How can you compare anything ?

Now, MUAC is BY FAR the "most efficient". OK...
How much does it cost ?
Much more, BY FAR !

Is that important ? I don't know.
Anyway, benchmarking is a nonsense.

[Radar]

10W,

A little unfair, if not totally wide of the mark with regard to 'their own UAC'. The PRC, let alone Eurocontrol, do not consider us as such.

[Nock]

I just wanted to ask BrATCO a question (since he seems to be one of the few who have been able to remain cool-headed despite this subject):
Don't you have the impression to observe a competition of pupils who are trying to determine who can pee the farthest?
This topic is meaningless since every ATC is completely different depending of the airspace, the traffic density, the procedures, the tools available for ATCO and far more reasons!
I will just say again that the best ATCO is someone who doesn't kill people!

The question is as relevant as asking which is the quickest: a lake or a poem! that pure nonsense! And please, ATCOs, stop trying to boast yourselves that just pitiful...:ugh:
Nock

[10W]

Have a look at the Eurocontrol site

Eurocontrol Maastricht UAC - About Us (http://www.eurocontrol.int/muac/public/standard_page/AboutUs.html)

To quote (with my bold type edit):

EUROCONTROL's Maastricht Upper Area Control Centre (UAC) ensures the safe, efficient and expeditious flow of civil aircraft in the upper airspace (above 24,500 feet, or roughly 7.5 km) of Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the North-West of Germany.

[BrATCO]

EUROCONTROL's Maastricht Upper Area Control Centre (UAC) ensures the safe, efficient and expeditious flow of civil aircraft in the upper airspace (above 24,500 feet, or roughly 7.5 km) of Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and the North-West of Germany.

DSNA (Direction des Services de la Navigation Aérienne) ensures the safe, efficient, expeditious and cost-effective flow of civil aircraft in the upper and lower airspace (from ground to outer-space) of France and overseas French territories.

Who does less ?
That's what ANSPs are supposed to do.

[BrATCO]

Nock,
Don't you have the impression to observe a competition of pupils who are trying to determine who can pee the farthest?


As for who's got the biggest, I've got the answer, but I'll keep it hidden.:p (No link with ATC...)

[BrATCO]

trafficnotsighted,Any Airport that can operate with blind ATCO's has got to be good.
Any Twr/APP controller must be able to cope with a radar failure during LVP. That's almost being blind...

[Nock]

As for who's got the biggest, I've got the answer, but I'll keep it hidden.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif (No link with ATC...)
Good one BrATCO!
I really don't know who the best ATCO is but the competition for the most self-important ATCO is of a very high level, good luck for all the competitors you all have great dispositions...

Just another question, if you think that you are the best controller of the world (or among the best) how comes that you dare to send traffic to other controllers that are not as brilliant as you? Because by doing this you're jeopardizing passenger's lifes!
dummies...

Nock

[Lon More]

to quote (with my bold type edit):. A fair and honest definition of any ATS unit's objectives. however, as Radar has alluded, behind that statement all is not sweetness and light; a bit like the Lib-Con conspiracy, in fact. There is no love lost between the MUAC and various factions in Haren who seem Hell bent on closing MUAC down. This seemingly on the orders of some of the national administrations , the UK included? After all it never was pro-Eurocontrol.


.... and at least MUAC got rid of the Euronator back to the UK :E Must be worth 10% :ok:

[PeltonLevel]

Maastricht UAC is BY FAR the most efficientBack in the 90s, when it was possible to travel on the flight deck, I was on a business trip to Munich at the end of September (the meeting HAD to be held at that time, you must understand).
I was in the jump seat wearing a headset, somewhere high over the Netherlands, when I felt the need to ask the First Officer whether the headset was working. His response was to call "Speedbird 958, radio check". The ground responded "958, radio check". He then explained "Apart from Hello and Goodbye, that's all you ever hear on this frequency".

[Radar]

10W,

No problem and no argument with a straight cut and paste from the MUAC website. What I have a difficulty with is a blatant (unfounded and incorrect) insinuation of collusion in doctoring published figures.

How intimately acquainted are you with the workings of the PMU / PRC?

[ZOOKER]

Apart from the the LTMA, NY, SOCAL and O'Hare, listening to the folks on Manchester Tower, Approach and Area Control, - this unit always seemed to set a fairly high standard in what was, (still is, according to ICAO), a fairly complex TMA environment.

[RKHickson]

Wow, some egos here!

However, those same egos are what the management of every air traffic control centre relies upon. If the ATCOs don't believe that they are the best in the world at your centre/unit, then something is wrong.

For that reason I write this post with my real name; I have worked as an ATCO in London TMA, London Area, and Maastricht UAC, and I can indeed confirm that each unit has the best air traffic controllers in the world!

What I cannot accept though, is the allusion that Eurocontrol PRU somehow colludes with Maastricht UAC to either create sympathetic indicators, or perhaps even to plain cheat on the statistics. Please take the time and the effort to educate yourself in respect to the rigour and the fierce independence with which the PRU exercises in terms of data gathering, performance management and reporting. I will even give you the link;

EUROCONTROL - Welcome to the Performance Review Commission (PRC) (http://www.eurocontrol.int/prc/public/subsite_homepage/homepage.html)

Then please read further, and learn from the PRU ACE (benchmarking report), that Maastricht UAC airspace is in fact one of the most complex regions of airspace in Europe. At the same time Maastricht UAC is the 2nd biggest ATC centre (by traffic volume), by far the most productive, and approximately half the cost of the next nearest ANSPs in the core region (say NATS for example), and up to one quarter of the price of some neighbouring ANSPs.

Yet Maastricht UAC manages to achieve these results with an excellent safety record, very satisfied customers, and contented staff. How does this happen? Is this because we have the best ATCOs, or more generally the best staff in the world??

If anybody is genuinely interested in answering this question, I would like you to accept my invitation to visit us here at Maastricht UAC, where you can perhaps understand first-hand why we perform as we do. Please message me, or reply to

[email protected]

and I will arrange individual/group visits with 'access all areas' at Maastricht UAC.

Best regards

Robin Hickson
Operations Management Team
Maastricht UAC

[Radar]

Robin,

Well done, mate. Didn't have the energy for that :) Would love to think you'll get a response to the open invitation.

Damo

[thorisgod]

He was heard during that French strike on Irish radio saying he doen't know why Irish controllers can't control the French Airspace during the strike remotely.:ugh: The technology is there, apparently. Seeing as we are overpaid and underworked anyway!

When it comes to being a mouthoiece, second to none.
As a boss, excellent if you are a shareholder, not so if he's your boss I imagine.

[Lon More]

Only 11 years to go then Radar, looking forward to it?

Thorisgood I'd like to say that MO'L is suffering from Foot-in-mouthitis, however, as usual, I think his foot is firmly rammed up another orifice.

[Radar]

Lon,

How ya doin'? 10 years, 2 months and 15 days ...... but he!, who's counting? :):):)

Quite enjoying myself at the moment, if the truth be told. Does that make me certifiable?

[catocontrol]

There are two major groups of controllers. Practical=efficient, and theoretical=not so efficient.

You will find both types, at all atc-units. So the answer to your question: You will find excellent controllers at the smallest towers, and largest ACCs:)

[Vercingetorix]

Ah, Hickers good response but can you do the Times Crossword and radar at the same time yet?:cool:

Cheers and all the best:ok:

[Lon More]

can you do the Times Crossword and radar at the same time yet

No but I knew a trainee at Abbotsinch who could. almost never looked up from the paper. All went well until his mentor said, "What about the steamroller on the runway?" so a Guardsvan was duly instructed to make a last minute overshoot along a deserted runway; shortly followed by a no coffee or biscuits talk with the Supervisor

[RKHickson]

Ha V !

Lon nice story! The joke from V was that he trained me in TMA, and usually sat behind the paper while I worked. Once when I had a little 'issue' I checked and he was buried in the paper. Thought I had got away with it. Then a quiet voice from within the Times...
"bit tight isn't it?"

[BrATCO]

Radar,10 years, 2 months and 15 days ...... but he!, who's counting? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

You're right not to count too much.
Have you read the figure 106, page 90 in the PRR ?

Since last Tuesday, our retirement age rose from 57 to 59 in France...
Watch your step when you enter the FABEC ! Good luck...:)


Vercingetorix,
(In memory of the Spaniards thread...)

can you do the Times Crossword and radar at the same time yet?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif

Is doing the times crosswords while working more professional than wandering for few seconds when something weird is happening in the room ?
That's not an attack, I don't need an answer : I think any controller has the ability to do it depending on the traffic (if he/she likes crosswords).
That's just a reminder for those who insulted Spanish controllers after the video and now think it's funny doing crosswords...
But Spanish are Spanish, I'm sure they deserved it...

[Daermon ATC]

@ RKHickson
My respect for that open invitation and I shall definitely have it in mind should I manage to nick the keys from the Aena henchman who chained us to our posts. Being spaniard, his machine-gun is probably out of order and his weapons permit and training more than two years expired... :rolleyes:

@ BrATCO
I was about to share some updates on the spanish atc thread as soon as I find it... I think it's buried some way over there...
By the way, could you just explain how do you manage to be able to be on strike ... not once but several times this year? And also effectively if the fuel reserves at the Paris airports is an indicator. :D
(We would like to be on strike sometimes, too, but our state doesn't allow it... hmmmm... probably the fact that you live in a democracy has something to do with it)

@ Thread
Best controllers in the world? Was about to name the spaniards ;) but I think we shall settle for second-best this time:
EAA AirVenture Oshkosh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_Airshow)

[Vercingetorix]

BrATCO

can you do the Times Crossword and radar at the same time yet?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif

This was from an age when men were men and women were glad of it! (At that time only French controllers carried handbags).

N.B. All those who where erudite enough to do the Times crossword were also extremely professional and none, I repeat none, ever had anything approximating to an airprox in their entire careers.:ok:

Of course, as I am now a SMS certified trainer I would take the newspaper away from any miscreant.:)

[BrATCO]

(At that time only French controllers carried handbags).
N.B. All those who where erudite enough to do the Times crossword were also extremely professional and none, I repeat none, ever had anything approximating to an airprox in their entire careers.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

No doubt about that ! :)

[Short Approach?]

Shut up bitches.

We all know that Copenhagen ATCOs drink the most beer and play the best soccer and THAT my friends, is a hell of a good controller.

[AGNES]

Surely the best are in Hong Kong. Not only the best but are also the most arrogant!

[On the beach]

Surely the best are in Hong Kong. Not only the best but are also the most arrogant!

Wrong tense, mate. I've left now. :)

[arearadar]

Fortunately it was the efficient ones wearing the hats, and not in the office making the rules !!

Dave

[arearadar]

I remember being trained on TMA years ago. It seems that mentors always read the Guardian.
I encountered an unusal problem and eventually had to descend an outbound.
Head appears from the Guardian and says `First time i`ve ever seen an outbound descended. He peered at the screen momentarily....and went back to his Guardian.
There may be a number of elderly controllers who remember this as it became a bit of a talking point.

Happy Days.

Dave :O

[arearadar]

Good for Len Vass.

We Brits are the best controllers. We don`t say so.....but we are told so !!!

Dave :)

[arearadar]

Does that include me....maybe in both respects, in the tower at EGBB and as a TMA controller for many years ?

Dave :O

[arearadar]

Easier in UAS than in the TMA ?.... Having done both, including Aerodrome, Approach, Approach Radar, Area and Area Radar I think they can all be as easy or as complex, at any given moment.

Dave :)

[arearadar]

Regarding a tower or approach controller coping with a radar failure, IMHO, surely it is the approach radar controller who should be worried !

Dave :confused:

[Lon More]

We Brits are the best controllers. We don`t say so.....but we are told so !!!

It's a pity thing. A bit like telling your idiot cousin that he's really quite intelligent. :}

[arearadar]

Lon,

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

It`s our users who tell us.

Dave :zzz:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I've related this elsewhere, but long before I was an ATCO I was visiting the USA with my then girl-friend (now my wife). We visited a number of ATC facilities and at one I commented to one controller that they must be good as it was so busy. "We're good but not as good as London Radar", he said. 'nuff said.

[LEGAL TENDER]

Not sure about the controllers, but us in NATS surely have the best managers and executives. They've got to be, judging by the bonuses they award themselves ;)

[arearadar]

You should have been a banker !

Dave ;)

[Roffa]

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz.......

[adc123]

no, mines bigger!

[Jack Ranga]

I've heard that ujang are the ducks nuts :ok:

[Chocolait]

Hey,
To think of it, that's depends on there moods too. Just like pilots or instructors, when they fly it depends on there moods. If they are :O it affects the whole thing. So, everyone should blame one another for their bad/good mood. TOO BAD IF ITS A BAD DAY....:\:*