Actual numbers out of a job

[clob]

A lot of guys on this site are very negative, probably as they don't yet have a job. Does anyone have actual figures on the numbers of qualified jar pilots unemployed and employed. This would maybe support what most brag about which is "no jobs". At the end of the day there are people getting employed - from any school as long as they are good enough!

[LEONIDA]

does not matter the numeber of employed, what it matters is the unemployed, I estimate 6000 unemployed pilots in europe .

[hollingworthp]

I'm calling troll

[bandoe]

'At the end of the day there are people getting employed - from any school as long as they are good enough!'

This is excessively and possibly dangerously positive. This statement shows a serious lack of life experience and market awareness. 'Being good enough' - does that include people who pay2fly, people who just happen to 'know someone' etc etc.

This statement suggests that those not employed are not 'good enough' and seems to suggest that you have total faith in airline recruitment principles as being completely meritocratic.

[Professor Fog]

unemployed, I estimate 6000 unemployed pilots in europe .

sorry but I cannot not bite on this one ! How do you come to this figure. Have you done a survey in every country in Europe ? I'm not saying there isn't 6000 unemployed pilots , but it just seems to have been plucked out of the air ?

If you are talking about job seeking experience pilots I think you'll find that there are nowhere near that many out of work.

The situation is changing fairly quickly too, at the begining of the year there were no jobs for love nor money, except in the sand pit . Now , in the UK at least, BA,Virgin, Easy, jet2 , Monarch etc are all starting to dip there toes back into the recruitment pond. This together with the ME and FE operators looking for experience pilots is going to see a more buoyant job market for all levels of pilots.

[LEONIDA]

there are 4700 registered wannabee , in Italy is a fact that there are 1000+ unemloyed experienced heavy jet pilots from ex alitalia who lives on benefits by government. I believe that in all europe only there are more then 6000 unemployed pilots and the jobs absorbtion is LESS then the new pilots made by the schools .

[Groundloop]

Clob, you are obviously new here however one big No No on PPRuNe is to post exactly the same question in more than one forum.

[Uncle Wiggily]

clob: take your trollin' ways elsewhere.

[potkettleblack]

Clob the number unemployed is 7,329. Unfortunately I cannot tell you where I got that information as it is extremely sensitive.

[LEONIDA]

if the number is for UK only or for all Europe please?

[hollingworthp]

He will tell you if you provide your bank account number and the name of the bank that you bank with :ugh:

[potkettleblack]

Even better I am setting up a flying school. It is well known throughout the industry that the best environment to learn is in Nigeria. The abundance of fully equipped airports, ILS installations and navigation aids coupled with low overheads and a supply of modern aircraft makes it a no brainer.

The company will be called Colonial Air Services Holdings (or Cash for short). A cheque made out to CASH in the sum of £10,000 will secure you an initial place for this fully integrated course. More details to follow.

[mad_jock]

Could very easily be 6k experenced type rated pilots out of work in europe.

Olympic had 1200 pilots who are all still being payed by the greek goverment.

As for how many wannabies are out of luck?

Easily way over 6k in europe. How many are actively looking for work and are current enough to have a realistic chance; significantly less but over a thousand in my estimation.

[SSTR Man]

Guys, there's no point guessing. Clob is looking for accurate figures here. And I know a fairly easy way to find out. I think we will all benefit from finding this out.

So Clob, you should count them! (until such time as you get a job).

I'll start you off....I'm one.

So thats....1,

so far so good!

And I'm guessing you're one....

So thats....2....

Anyone else help Clob out here?

:p

[Uncle Wiggily]

My cousin's daughter's godmother's nephew is apparently looking for a darn flying job

[SSTR Man]

That makes 3 then.

Hey maybe its not so bad after all!

[kingofkabul]

Apologies for posting something that might be useful, but looking at caa stats there were 17,056 cpl (a) or atpl (a) holders in the uk in 2008. There were a total of 10,690 pilots employed by uk airlines for the same year. This excludes ryanair, where I would guess there are 1,000 uk pilots working (total guess, sorry). So, there would be over 5000 pilots who are not flying with airlines in the uk, but hold the liscenses to do so.

If these stats are correct it's not a pretty picture.

[mad_jock]

Aye but there are tons of us working oversea's.

Mind you there are alot of other states license holders as well working in the uk.

[A320Dreamer]

This looks like fun, make that 4!

Although I might add that I'm not a pilot, I have not even started high school.
But still!

[blackybirdy]

take a seat...and smoke a cigarette...

the number of unemployed pilots in Europe is over 60,000:ouch:. what?? no no, that's impossible:eek:...

spain 5000, italy 6000, portugal 3000, france 6000, germany 5000, greece 3000, sweden 3000, nordway 3000...

should I continue? are you motivated enough to fly tomorrow in your oxford flight club...sorry academy. :E

your chance to land a job are 1:60,000. something like 0,0001%:E
your chance to be fired if you are lucky enough to find a job is 99,9%:E

don't jump from your terrasse now, I have a good new for you, your chance to end up at macdo to flip some nice cheeseburgers is 120%:ok:

[clob]

Kingofkabul, mad jock, blackbirdy - thanks for your productive responses.

It is very easy to get info on those qualified- both employed and unemployed in many industries eg. teaching, engineering, computing to name but a few. This is always a great indicator of whether one should train with the obvious goal of job in that industry at the end! The topic question is very relevant and deserves an accurate answer. :ugh:

Anyone who wishes to give constructive, productive answers - thanks in advance.

[kuryus]

Fun indeed.
Count me in. So the total at the moment is 4.

A320Dreamer if you don't have a license it doesn't count.
But you can always say you are an enthusiast pilot unemployed, ehehe.

[flylogan]

Blackybirdy

Are your figures fact or fiction?
Readily available statistics or guesswork?

flylogan

p.s. could you pick my euromillions lottery numbers this week?:rolleyes:

[FI_JOB_HUNTER]

I propose another exercise that may be more useful and would provides us better data.
If a lot of people participates and give accurate data, the results can be analyzed and will show the reality of the current situation. A lot of inputs will give us proper statics.
The exercise is the following:
How many pilots you know, and within this pilots how many are employed as pilots?
The number of employed and unemployed pilots won’t be accurate but somehow the ratio will be.
So, one example may be:
I know 60 pilots and 20 out of that are employed.

Ratio is 33% of employment in our business.
“This is not a true data tomorrow I will review my facebook and give an accurate ratio".
Averaging all our ratios will give us the big picture!
Should we do it?
My guess is that the ratio is around 25%.

[I-AINC]

I'm with all licence (ATPL f + MCC, both JAR and CAA RSM), and no job. :(

[TheGlide]

Excuse my ignorance what does RSM stand for ?

I think this post was started to convince certain people or themselves that it was right to take out that 80k loan and that it will all be ok in the end.

It will be many many long hard years before things pick up for 200hr pilots.

[mad_jock]

Clob the reason why you won't get any real numbers is because the CAA won't release them because its commercially sensitive

They could very easily produce

1. Number of intial Class 1 medicals

2. Number of students sitting one exam

3. Number of students passing all 14 exams

4. Number of students obtaining CPL

5. Number of students obtaining intial IR.

6. Number of pilots getting intial type rating.

But they won't because the whole industry operates by having an over supply of fresh meat ready to go on type ratings when they need to expand.

Currently this means they can have a 3 month reaction time. If there wasn't an over supply and they had to train thier own they would have a 18 month to 2 years reaction time.

And I might add as well that if folk don't train the capacity of the system decreases which puts even more lag into the reaction time. I believe the current european capacity is 1200 pilots a year. How much of that capacity is currently being used I don't know

[Captain-Random]

Mad Jock - This might answer some questions

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Flight%20Crew%20Licensing%20Annual%20Issues%202008_09v2.pdf

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Assuming that CAA doc covers a 12 month period I struggle to imagine where 1,300 new CPL license holders would have found employment!?!


WWW

[mad_jock]

No it doesn't

That form is a mish mash of numbers which is generated without a key to what the different numbers mean.

There is no way of splitting down intial type ratings and how do the numbers work?

You have 1330 cpl's issued with only 131 IR's Now I would have thought that OAT would be putting out 131 IR's a year all on there own.

Now 188 FI ratings!!!!!! I don't know what to say about that!!!

Its designed so they can say they issue licensing data but is constructed so nothing meaningful can be pulled from it.