Urgent Help please!

[gigi116]

A friend of mine has an IR (MPA) expired from few days.

He is desperate :{ as actually abroad for an initial type rating course and TRTO people do not allow him on SIM as they say cannot renew IR during Skill Test.

LASOR are clear regarding LST prerequisite for him (is not first MPA) but not very clear on IR renawal during LST.

Please give me any reference to help him.

Thanks

[mad_jock]

Your mate is knackard.

There have been quite a few caught out by that one and there is no way you can get round it.

[Volorovescio]

Before you start a type rating course you need to have a valid IR ME.
SP or MP makes no differences, but as I sad before, you need IR ME valid.
In this case, your friend has to make IR ME renewal by a proficiency check and then he is ready for the type rating course.
See you.

[BillieBob]

A valid MEIR is required to commence a first type rating course. You say that your friend already holds an IR(MPA), which suggests that he also holds a previous MPA type rating. If this is the case then a valid IR is required only at the time of application and the type rating skill test will, in any case, include validation of the IR on the type.

[mad_jock]

Apparently the CAA is not allowing this any more.

I know of 4 ex jetstream rated pilots who only got away with it because of the Volcanic ash clouds delaying training. And currently another one is trying to get some form of IR to be able to start another type rating.

[DFC]

JAR-FCL 1.250 (d) is the requirment that applies here.

The requirement only has to be met at the start if the course i.e. previous type rating (with it's in-built MPIR) still valid or hold a MEIR (SPA).

Remember that they only need a valid MEIR not a class rating. A quick trip to an FNPT2 (multi engine type) with an appropriate examiner will fix that.

[BillieBob]

Apparently the CAA is not allowing this any more.The CAA have no choice in the matter. The ANO requires them to issue and maintain licences and ratings in accordance with JAR-FCL, which is quite clear on the requirements.......

JAR-FCL 1.250
(a) Pre-requisite conditions for training: An applicant for the first type rating course for a multipilot aeroplane type shall:............ (2) have a valid multi-engine instrument rating (A);

(d) The issue of an additional multi-pilot type ratings requires a valid multi-engine instrument rating.

The current draft of EASA Part-FCL says much the same thing but does not include the requirement for the MEIR to be valid at the start of the first type rating course.

If the CAA are arbitrarily ignoring this requirement then they are open to an appeal under Reg 6, which they would almost certainly lose.

[portsharbourflyer]

Billiebod,

I am a bit confused by all this, I have a non current (ie: expired more than 12 months), but expired less than five years MPA (IR), courtesy of my previous employer.

In August I made enquiries to a UK based TRTO about doing a type rating and was informed that as this was not my first MPA type there was no requirement for me to hold a current ME IR. Now according to what has been written above the rules have been changed.

Now DFC, due to the new altenate rule, SPA MEIR can only be renewed (can't be revalidated) in the sim on an alternate basis, which means for alot of us the SPA ME-IR revalidation does have to done on the aircraft (which is a MEP, very expensive at the moment), revalidating my IR on my previous MPA type is not an option. So when did the rules actually change?

[mad_jock]

in the old days as long as you had some form of IR within 5 years if you had already done a MPA IR you were good to go for anything you like.

Currently if you don't hold another MPA type rating IR or SPA-ME-IR you will not be allowed to start a type rating course.

I can see the point with the first type rating but can see zero benefit for flight safety for someone that already holds a MPA IR within 5 years out of date. For a new type you are going to do at least 16 hours under the watchfull eye of a TRI.

Just ignore DFC he talks pish.

If your IR has expired the only way you can renew it is by test in the MEP aircraft or sim/aircraft if its a MPA-IR on a multi engined jetA burning type.

[BillieBob]

There is no requirement to hold a valid IR in order to commence training for an additional MPA type rating. If, as has been suggested, the UK CAA are inventing extra requirements that do not exist then they are exceeding their authority and acting outwith the provisions of the ANO. Does anyone have anything more than hearsay to show that this is the case?

JAR-FCL 1.250(d) was written with precisely this situation in mind - to avoid the necessity for an experienced MPA pilot who has allowed his IR to lapse having to renew a MEIR in order to start another MPA type rating course, during the course of which he would in any case, renew his IR.

[mad_jock]

First hand BB ex Highland pilots had to invent an excuse and got an extension due to "volcanic ash"

And another ex highland pilot last week was running around trying to find a jetstream for hire to do a LPC before starting a TR with BMI regional.

[DFC]

BillieBob,

I have had a look at the original case again and checked the situation and you are 100% correct.

The situation is;

1. To be able to start the course for the first multi-pilot type rating the holder needs to hold a valid multi engine instrument rating.

2. To have an additional rating issued they must hold a valid multi engine instrument rating.

As you correctly say, in 2 above their multi-engine instrument rating will have been renewed in the sim on their LST at the end of the course. In fact it would be unusual for the IR not to be combined with the type rating LST since there are items that are required to be completed by sole reference to instruments unless the rating is to be restricted to VFR only.

There are a number of recent cases where this was done i.e. Company want to fleet change pilot. They wait until their LPC is due and then send them on the course starting just after it runs out and thereby avoid wasting money by getting the full year out of the LPC/OPC process. They have no problems with getting the subsequent rating issued.

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Now DFC, due to the new altenate rule, SPA MEIR can only be renewed (can't be revalidated) in the sim on an alternate basis, which means for alot of us the SPA ME-IR revalidation does have to done on the aircraft (which is a MEP, very expensive at the moment), revalidating my IR on my previous MPA type is not an option. So when did the rules actually change?


I think that you need to read JAR-FCL 1.246.

The "alternate rule" to use your words only applies when the instrument rating is;

a) being revalidated (3 month window); and

b) is not being combined with the test for a class or type rating

i.e. the alternate rule only applies in a very specific case

To use the words from JAR-FCL;

"An FNPT II or flight simulator may be used but at least each alternate proficiency check for the revalidation of an IR(A) in these circumstances shall be performed in an aeroplane."

You will find that where the revalidation is combined with revalidation of the type or class rating or when the IR is being renewed there is no such restriction. In fact JAR-FCL is very clear when it says;

"Flight simulators, if available and other training devices as approved
shall be used."

So the rules have not changed at all. If you combine the IR revalidation with the type rating / class rating renewal / revalidation you can always do it on the sim....year after year after year. That is how it works in most cases for airlines etc.

You may have been confused by your personal experience since it is unlikely that an approved sim / training device exists local to you for your MEP / SEP class rating and therefore you may have used a device that was approved to revalidate the IR alone (separate from the class rating).

Just because you used those "particular circumstances" (to use the JAR-FCL words) does not mean that it is the only possible way.

I did think that the original poster was saying that the IR was going to be expired in a few days from when they posted so no matter what the FNPT 2 would have been a good answer anyway. Does not matter now.

If one (or one's employer) is going to spend many thousands on a type rating course a few hundred on an MEP IR renewal is small change overall.