BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Betty girl]

M.Mouse,
I don't recognise what you say and I have not heard any trainers being anti pilot. Surely we all use the same trainers when doing our SEP.
I have just been through my SEP and the pilots and cabin crew all did a session together and we all got on fine, trainers, cabin crew and pilots; in fact it was quite good fun!
I don't see what some of you see, and it makes me wonder, if it is some of you that have the problem! Sometimes people can prejudge others and preconceptions can cloud ones judgement.

It really is sad that so many of you seem to revel in all this and it is almost as though you are disappointed that there has been a settlement and some of you actually seem to want it to fail and that seems to be from both sides of the debate. I expected it from a few BASSA mentalists, although I have noticed some very good posts comming from many BASSA supporters; but from those of you that consider you have been on the winning side, I find it very strange.

[Flow Wedge]

Ah ha, MissM, but you must remember that the VCCs inter'feared' because they took an independent, individua and, uncoerced decision to support the company through a period of IA. IA brought about by a 'scheme' of people whose course of action even the judiciary found to be unreasonable.

[Chigley]

Miss M:

Perhaps the majority of crew that crossed the picket line did so because they were thinking for themselves and not waiting to be directed by BASSA. Maybe some of us who had seen this many times before knew only too well how this would pan out as when it comes to BASSA history has a habit of repeating itself.

My point being nicely proved by the fact that you have just stated that you have managed to secure permanent, contractual changed to the offer, which you believe because BASSA have instructed you that this is the case? Below is a paragraph lifted from the IFCE intranet page under the news heading 'Letter to LHR crew - Individual offer'

If you are not a member of Unite, we can make the offer to you personally. By signing and returning the form in this letter, you can accept:

Two years of contractual pay rises worth up to 5.9% from February 2011
A permanent, contractual, variable pay top up scheme, for Heathrow crew on Worldwide and Eurofleet Protection for your terms and conditions, now and in the future

All you need to do is confirm that you were not a member of Unite on December 14, 2010 and send the signed form back to us by January 31, 2011 in the envelope provided.

If you choose to accept the offer, you are not changing any other term or condition of your employment contract. You’d also enjoy the benefit of any deals that may be done in the future through the normal collective bargaining arrangement we have with Unite.

Don't get me wrong, I am delighted that people are finally seeing this offer as a way forward, but sadly it's taken a huge turnaround on BASSA's part to get the rest of you to see this. The only losers in all of this are the cabin crew as a whole as we have ALL ended up signing an offer far inferior to anything that was offered pre-strike!

[Betty girl]

Young Paul,

To get a clear picture of this dispute, you really need to read all the threads, which have been discussing this for well over two years now.

I don't think there are any cabin crew that are happy with Mixed Fleet cabin crew working to less favourable agreements, conditions or having less pay. We would all prefer them to be working to the same agreements to us.

Although I am not a fan of BASSA the union, and would have wished they had been able to negotiate an inclusive way for new crew to be included in our terms and conditions, that is not what happened, firstly because BASSA tend to rush into industrial action and secondly because BA wanted crew to be working to inferior agreements. That was the end goal be it for all of us or just some of us and it is therefore a bit unfair to blame BASSA/UNITE and all cabin crew for this.

I think your post is rather unfair as BASSA/UNITE have all along been wanting to negotiate on behalf of ALL crew but they have only a few days ago been given the right to represent this new Mixed Fleet. In fact BA actually started Mixed Fleet after BASSA lost it's right during the IA to discuss any matters with BA.

You only have to look at a thread running in this very section where an Air France crew member discuses her companies rostering to see that BA were already operating in a much more economic way to many of it's European competitors.

I don't think it is strange that 10,000 people wish to keep their terms and conditions intact. Yes some of them went about it in a bad way but ALL of us and any other employee would not want to work to an inferior contract and reduce their pay. We all have mortgages and commitments based on our salaries which are not unusual when compared to other BA employees or people working in the London area and considerably low compared to Air France, Iberia, KLM etc. I agree Mixed Fleets pay is far too low and all cabin crew want that to change. We had no input at all into what BA has chosen to pay them.

So before you make out this is a simple problem with a simple answer try reading all the threads, which would take you weeks, rather than coming on a website and criticizing people and talking about something you know not much about.

[Pornpants1]

Like many others have said, we could have achieved a far better deal if everyone who voted for industrial action hadn't crossed the picket line and if VCC had minded their own business instead of interfearing in our dispute.

You could have got a much better deal and avoided painful industrial action if BASSA had sat down and negotiated :ok:

[rethymnon]

I can't remember the source, but the following quotation has served me well over the years;

'Hatred corrodes the vessel in which it is contained'

[From Tunbridge Wells]

Miss M
Quote:
Like many others have said, we could have achieved a far better deal if everyone who voted for industrial action hadn't crossed the picket line and if VCC had minded their own business instead of interfearing in our dispute.

Pornpants You could have got a much better deal and avoided painful industrial action if BASSA had sat down and negotiated


and it goes round and round and round and round:ugh:

Please can we stop rehashing what we are all aware of? Do you want to move on or stay stuck in this rut?

[BASSAwitch]

Dingbat(icus),

I cannot believe you, of all people, posted this;


Yellow Pen in post 4128 you quote me and then go on to identify a named individual in what I find an unacceptable manner on a public forum. This could damage the named individual not only personally but professionally.

At no time have I identified any named individual as ‘management treacle’.


Really? Is your understanding of English law so flawed that you think there's a difference between naming and strongly hinting at, on a "public" forum or a "private" forum? Your posts on BASSA and particularly your "Gibbon's Quest" are not clever and not funny, yet you denigrate colleagues (including managers) maliciously in front of fellow colleagues who know exactly who you are referring to. These people work alongside and are managed by your "characters", the ones you refer to as trolls.

There is little daylight in what you do and what young Kevin did that led to his dismissal. The BASSA forum isn't private, there's no such thing in law. It's merely password protected, I have 11 such passwords, happy to share.


As for ‘new behaviours’, this will be required by BOTH sides of the dispute if BASSAWitch’s outburst is any indication. Are you really a CSD?

Yes I am, as you are. In fact you may even know me.;)

Here's two questions for you to ponder.

Who do you think asked for the 28 day extension for the ballot period, BA or Unite?

Who do you think asked for all litigation associated with this dispute to be dropped, BA or Unite?

Think it through, all is not what it seems.

[MIDLGW]

Whoa, people! Can we all just take a step back here? Please.

There is no need to try and entice people into a reaction, regardless which side of the fence they're on - even if they're sitting on the fence. There are some people who are bitter and twisted, there are some who live on cloud nine, some who are middle of the road, some are more (academically) intelligent than others, some are more "street wise" than others. Some can see through the fog, some cannot.

The point I'm trying to make is that we're all different. Please do not tar everyone with the same brush. Most people get on, but we cannot all get along as best friends. As long as colleagues (from all departments) are polite and professional, that's all that matters. Go for dinner and drinks if that suits you. Stay in your room if that's what you'd rather do. There's certainly no need to get all twitchy about it. Be courteous, even if you do not particularly like someone.

I'm fully aware that we have some crew who do not perform as well as they should. That needs to be dealt with through the proper channels and not here or any other forum. I'm also fully aware of the crew who do go the extra mile and perform brilliantly, and they should be recognised too.

This is the time to use your time and energy to narrow the gap. Take some time chatting to your colleagues, and you may find out as to why certain behaviours happen. Most people would just like someone to listen to them, and not make assumptions just because they heard something on the grapevine/galleyfm/jungle telegraph. Stop rumours in their tracks by not re-telling the tale.

In short, what I'm trying to say: Don't tar everyone with the same brush and be kind to each other. Simple as that. Then at least we can try to build bridges and have a nicer work environment.

Having flown with both strikers, non-strikers and VCCs, I've found no need to be anything but professional and nice. Being able to respect other's beliefs is a good quality to have. Learn it and use it.

Moving on, I hope this whole debacle is finally nearing an end. There will be people around who will find it hard to forgive and forget, so please help them. You may not feel like it, but anger breeds anger and kindness breeds kindness. Let's all move on. I'm not suggesting we should all be like the Walton family, but building bridges will have to start somewhere, so why not here and now?

[CC Forum Moderators]

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/fltinstructor/animated_hands_clapping_765.gif

And on that high note, we will now start a longish 'BA CC Industrial Relations'-free period on this forum.

After many years of this thread we need the holiday, and you need to re-build a cordial working relationship, rather than continuing to snipe at each other online.

We wish you all the very best.


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CC Forum Moderators
PPRuNe´s Industrial Relations Experts ;)