Value for money GPS

[poetpilot]

I posted something on the flyer.co.uk forum recently about use/conversion of land GPS handheld units vs aviation handheld units.

I don't really want to flame all the forums, but I'm really interested to see if anyone has had experiences with various modern handheld GPS units and could relate those for the benefit of all.

On the other forum, we established a few things.....

1. I'm a self-confessed tight old g*t, looking to beat the aviation GPS resellers and get me a bargain unit that's useful for VFR flight.

2. As a baseline/ideal, comparing units & functionality to a Garmin Pilot III (b&w moving map, HSI) retailing at c.£445 in the UK (which I think is an excessive price - bah humbug).

3. All the current garmin GPS range (land & air) can handle up to 999kts so speed range isnt an issue with any unit.

4. Garmin say you cant load aviation software into their land units because there's a hardware difference.

5. By the time you import an aviation unit into the UK from the US, VAT & delivery make the price difference negligible.

So - for slow VFR flight, using a GPS solely as a backup aid to good ole map reading, compass and stopwatch, does the extra price of a Pilot III pay off compared to buying a (say) Garmin II+ or III+ and working off a road map database?

Some of these land units cost as little as £100 or so - granted, not moving maps, but seemingly good enough to get you around between waypoints.

...and now I've just spotted some Magellan units at around £100 with optional aviation databases at £80 extra. Anyone with experience of these?

All opinions valued.............

[I have control]

I have used a standard base model Garmin eTrex, cost me about $100.

It's fine as an aid to daytime VFR navigation - user programmable waypoints, basic map function, spead, bearings etc, little compass rose to steer by.

I upgraded to a GPS Pilot III. It just has more bells & whistles on it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I have the little Magellan GPS300, without any database.

With good reliability and accuracy, it tells me where I am, where I'm going, and how fast. It also (importantly) tells me whether I've lost lock. It'll store 20 waypoints and a 10 waypoint route.

And that's it. It cost £90, works well and got me all the way across Europe in an Islander on one set of Batteries (as a backup you understand). It's also small enough to stick in my top pocket or kneeboard.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind the more expensive one with the Jeppesen database.

G

[mrzippo]

Can only confirm that the Garmin III Pilot Never ceases to amaze me every time I switch it on.
Previously had a chunky Garmin 95XL, bought years ago and whilst good in its day was slow to update and disliked batteries a lot.
(Anybody wants to buy it, email me)
The IIIPilot I checked as a rough guide to accuracy one day (zoomed in mucho)put me approx 15feet off the runway centreline whilst I was actually on it. Thats what I call pretty funky. Splash out in other words for my trusty friend which has seen me all through Europe with added confidence and ease. Lifes too short not to! :p

[Who has control?]

I was a map & stopwatch man until I was offered a second-hand Magellan 310. It only has 100 landmarks and one 10-leg route. But it does tell you where to point the aircraft. OK, so it won't tell you zone boundaries, frequencies or runway directions, but I like looking at maps and doing pre-flight planning.

I'm now a GPS convert. I find I'm spending less time worrying about where I am and more time concentrating on the flying, although I still draw lines on maps and would never fly without one.

Having praised the basic model Magellan, I'd like to upgrade to a Pilot 3, but it costs 4 hours flying and I question whether I would get the value from it.

[Frankie Four Fingers]

As an alternative to traditional handheld GPS systems and if you have a laptop handy, you may want to take a look at Sony's ETAK GPS (approx £200) - it plugs directly into the PCMCIA slot, and when used with the right nav software (jepp's outstanding FliteMap application for example), you get a real viable GPS / moving map alternative - with a load more functions besides.

I've used this setup a number of times, the only real problem being screen glare on the laptop, and finding a space to put it ! :cool:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

IMHO a GPS is not a 'must have' for VFR bimbling. However, it's a useful toy as long as you remember priorities - look out the window and don't spend long squinting at that tiny screen.

I recently bought a 'Pilot 111' and there's no doubt it's a clever piece of kit. Just for fun I have set up Routes for my favorite VFR bimbles and the HSI page (and map, but that can get crowded) can be very useful in marginal VFR. Just ensure you're not coming to rely on it - it's good, but not that good.

I decided to lob into Sleap the other week for lunch. Got the info on the radio but there's no room for a Poolys in the Chippy so what's the runway layout? Just move the GPS cursor over Sleap on the map and 'enter' - up comes all the info about Sleap, including a runway layout!

Coming out of Sherlowe strip last week I went straight into a rain shower. Could see about half a mile all around, and Shawbury asked me to route 3 miles east of them and 3 miles west of Ternhill - they are 6 miles apart. I could position visually OK approximately, but the trusty GPS confirmed my judgement of approx position but enabled me to position *exactly* between the two.

In short, Poet Pilot, you probably don't need one. But if you get one, you may as well splash out for a 'proper' aviation one, and the 'Pilot 111' isn't the market leader for nothing ;~))

SSD

[Tricky Woo]

I bought a Magellan 310A ('A' signifies the aviation database) a couple of years ago. Still rather in love with it. Mickey Mouse moving map aside, the rest of it is great fun, and bloody useful.

While it can't approach a fancier gadget such as a Pilot III, it's a lot cheaper, and for me it made a great entry into the GPS world.

One day, when I start flying more regularly, I'll probably upgrade and then write a long post about the deficiencies of the Magellan compared to whatever new widget I get.

TW

[Julian]

I think with GPS being so cheap these days, ie Garmin eTreks for about £120, there is no excuse for ANY GA pilot not to carry one in his/her (being PC :D ) flight bag as a backup. The cost of 1 hours flying time could get you out of a mess at some point!!!!

My 2p worth.

Julian.

[poetpilot]

All good information, thank you everybody so far for such quick and informative responses.

My aviation steed (haha)at this time is a Luton Minor, with even less space than a Chippie cockpit so I'm afraid I'll have to discount the laptop card idea. One of the guys at work got one of those by the way, but down here in Telford we couldnt get it to lock onto anything. :confused:

Julian, I agree with your comments but flight bag & Luton don't go well together! Absolutely no space for anything except under/behind the seat (tools & sandwiches).

Shaggy Sheep, your points are very valid re: use as a backup aid only in VFR. My feeling is that a GPS in the Luton is actually less of a distraction from looking out than a map is - because the open cockpit/map situation is fraught to say the least :eek:

I think I'm beginning to accept the fact that the Pilot III is the best bet so I'll have to swallow hard and not tell Mrs Poet how much it really was :p

May be able to get the cost down via a US mate of mine who's coming over for Xmas - I just hope he doesnt get arrested at checkin (he'll be best putting it into main luggage).

[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: poetpilot ]

[Julian]

Poet pilot - OK, but with the Etrek you do get a handy piece of string so you can hang it round your neck :D

Have fun wherever you end up....

Julian.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

And PoetPilot - beware that I think US Garmins have a US-only database, and for marketing reasons they are not compatible with the European one.

I think, in UK, you just have to bend over and let Garmin shaft you..... ;~)))

SSD

[paulo]

If you get someone to bring one in from the US, make sure it has (or you can add/replace) a European database.

Just to add to everyone elses comments - Garmin makes lovely kit - the Nokia of GPS IMHO.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Good Grief Julian, some of us can get 6 hours flying for £120. Get a grip.

G

[Julian]

Ok G,

The cost of 1 to 6 hours flying time could get you out of a mess at some point!!!!

:p

Julian.

[poetpilot]

Yeah, on the subject of the database, I believe it has to be Atlantic International. I've already noticed that some places only sell the US database unit.

Incidentally, my flying costs are only £20 ph, but that's one reason why I now want a GPS - I can now afford to fly more and go places rather than do 3 circuits every 6 weeks!

I'll write to Garmin and ask them if Etrex string is transfereable to the Pilot III ;)

[poetpilot]

On the strength of recommendations, I've bitten the bullet and have ordered a GPS III Pilot from sportys.com (with Atlantic Intnl database). Should get it in time for Xmas.
He Who Dies With The Most Toys, Wins. :D :D

Thanks again everybody !

[englishal]

get an eTrek or other cheap basic GPS and data cable, then go to www.aeroplanner.com (http://www.aeroplanner.com) and download all the waypoints you ever needed, including VORs, NDBs, Intersections, fixes, blah de blah, direct to your GPS. Thats what I've got and its great.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I've used both a basic Magellan and a PilotIII and the difference in actual functuality is huge.

I bought a Garmin PilotIII and think that although it is expensive it is also brilliant and THEREFORE good value.

WWW

[LowNSlow]

Totally agree WWW. I had a battery eating Magellan and I didn't realise how bad the functionality was until I bought the Pilot III. Plus it locks in far quicker.

As was mentioned earlier, it's great to be able to confirm your location with confidence if the conditions become less than ideal.

[twistedenginestarter]

Like Ghengis I've got a basic no-map Magellan. £100 - does knots and nm.

You can only store 100 waypoints and a route of 10. But it's all I need.

Wonderful.

(I am lying of course. It does have a map - the paper one on my lap)

[Toppers]

Garmin III has to be the best. I've had a Skymap, and a Magellan and the Garmin wins hands down EVERY time.

[bcfc]

Got a III pilot earlier this year and agree with all previous posts. Cheapest supplier I found was Waters and Stanton (http://www.wsplc.com) (not advertising - just saving people a few quid ;) ) I also find the bean bag very useful and much cheaper that the yoke mount

[Chuck Ellsworth]

If you want to have a look at the latest and greatest try
www.anywheremap.com (http://www.anywheremap.com)

Not only is it astounding as a GPS you also have a fully functional pocket computer.

..............


:D The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :D