femail pilots

[Jepp]

Is it me or am I imagining it, and correct me if Im wrong. But having flown to fifty or more airfields around the country in the last ten years or so that, I have never met a FEMAIL pilot that doesn't talk with a plumb in her mouth. WHY :confused:

ATC - papa oscar sierra hotel, Line up
PILOT- Okay Yah

[englishal]

I've never met a FEMAIL pilot, what do they look like? Met a couple of FEMALE ones though, looked quite nice as well

;)

[QNH 1013]

"and correct me if I'm wrong" I don't know whether you're right or wrong because I wasn't with you when you visited all these airfields, but I haven't noticed any skew from a normal distribution in the way you suggest.
What I have noticed is that there are far fewer female pilots than male pilots, but that seems to be changing in the same way that the number of lady Air Traffic Controllers seems to be increasing. While not wishing to upset anyone, I do believe that the female voice is more intelligible in a noisy environment such as a light aircraft.
By the way, wouldn't a "plumb" in your mouth tend to give you lead poisoning?

[suction]

Can't say I've flown widely enough to comment on the numbers. There are a good few females fly out of EGLD and they sound OK to me.

However ........ It was my displeasure to follow one such type into the circuit the other week. It was the widest , slowest circuit I've ever seen with the longest,slowest most protracted landing roll which used pretty much all 700m of tarmac :mad: :mad: Spatial awareness 0 - or just thought she owned the circuit and could b@gger around in it all day long :mad: :mad:

Suction

[Jepp]

Sorry about the spelling.Must get this keyboard fixed !

For femail read female
For plumb read plum

[Whirlybird]

Jepp,

If you can ever get yourself to a meeting of the BWPA (British Women Pilots Association) you'll find we're a fairly normal cross section of people; some of us speak proper like, and some of us wot got sorta dragged up in Sarff London... Well, you get my drift. I suspect you just haven't met that many women pilots. Not your fault; I haven't either, since there aren't that many of us - according to the CAA 6% of PPLs and 2% of commercial pilots are female. So the real question is - why, when women have been flying for 90 years (first one got her PPL in 1910), is this the case?

[Jepp]

Whirlybird,

Yes , your correct, there isn't many women pilots around TO judge, it wasn't meant to offend or anything like that, just a comment.

As to why women pilot are few and far between, I think its the old fashioned attitude, that flying is a mans job.

;)

[QNH 1013]

Jepp, No hard feelings, with my spelling I'm not really in a position to be critical, but I just couldn't resist. Perhaps a sign of weakness on my part!

Whirly, thanks for the figures. I assume the ratio is changing in the direction of a better balance and I assume that useless careers advice at school may be a factor. I would also expect that as the percentage of female commercial pilots increases, the rate of increase will also rise, simply because of greater visibility.
My view is that a pilot is a pilot. There are poor pilots, competent pilots and outstanding pilots, whether they are male or female doesn't matter as far as I can see. That causes me to raise the question of why there needs to be a separate association for women pilots. Doesn't that sort of imply that they are different (as pilots) ?

[eyeinthesky]

Jepp:

I would have thought that before you pick on other people's voices you would make sure your own grammar and spelling are 100%:

QUOTE
Yes , your correct, there isn't many women pilots around TO judge, it wasn't meant to offend or anything like that, just a comment.

As to why women pilot are few and far between, I think its the old fashioned attitude, that flying is a mans job.

UNQUOTE

I think you'll find it should be:
'..YOU'RE correct..'
'..AREN'T many..'
'..women PILOTS are..'
'..IT'S the..';
'..MAN'S job.'.

Also there should a full stop after 'judge' and there should not be a comma after 'attitude'.

Sorry, seeing as you set yourself up I couldn't resist taking a potshot. I'm sure someone will do the same to me now. :p

[Evo7]

Whirly

Maybe there are more male pilots because we're more willing to spend money we don't have chasing something like a PPL?? Women are far more sensible.. :)

I'm not claiming to have a scientific sample, but talking to my friends I've found that all of the women think I'm nuts to spend so much money on flying, while a few of the men understand why I do it - although most of them think I'm nuts too. :rolleyes:

[Whirlybird]

Evo7,

I think you're probably right. Also women are kind of expected/taught to be unselfish and not to spend money on themselves; it's supposed to go on the kids or the house or something sensible. Having said that, most of the women I know think what I'm doing is great, and are nearly as excited as I am about my getting my CPL(H).

QNH,

In an ideal world you would be right of course. But most minorities have and need organisations, simply because it's so bloody lonely being in a minority. When I was doing my PPL I hardly met any other women who flew, and I know at least one woman who never met any at all. As for going commercial, I didn't even dare ask about it at first; I'd never met a female commercial pilot, and didn't know quite how to put it to people who I knew would be amazed - and when I eventually asked my instructor he was indeed gobsmacked. Also, once you've got your PPL it's nice to find other pilots to fly with, but men hardly ever ask a woman if she'd like to fly with them, and can tend to take it the wrong way if she asks them - does she fancy them or what? You don't need that sort of complication as a new pilot. Airfields and flying clubs can feel a bit like old boys clubs too; women are a novelty but can feel somewhat excluded. And it's so so tiring to have it always assumed that you're someone's non-flying wife!

I'm speaking purely from my own experience and that of a few of my friends now; some women may not find this happens and that's absolutely fine. And most of us find ways of coping or dealing with it or just not caring. But for me, and a lot of others, the BWPA fulfils a need. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.

Interestingly enough, I once flew with a male friend/co-pilot to a BWPA meeting at Sywell. He was happy to come along, but disappeared immediately to look around, saying he felt strange being the only male with a bunch of women. The fact that every other time we'd flown I'd been a lone woman with a bunch of men and hadn't even commented on it had never occurred to him. :confused:

[Final 3 Greens]

On the ground, there are males and females.

Aviating, there are pilots.

Some are better than others and everyone is a unique individual, but in my experience the women I have flown with have been good pilots and I have learned a lot from them.

They often handle aeroplanes much more subtly than us guys and we can learn much if we suspend disbelief and observe/listen.....

F3G :)

[QNH 1013]

Whirly, many thanks for the enlightenment. I learned years ago never to make assumptions about anyone. Believe me, I do know what thats like on the receiving end.

F3G, Why should we have any disbelief (in the first place) that needs suspending ?

[ 18 November 2001: Message edited by: QNH 1013 ]

[JLSeagal]

Being a female pilot for the past 20 yrs. I consider it to be a flattering compliment when the men in my flying club consider me as "one of the guys"...ability to fly is equal in men/women - it's all attitude (not ego)

[Kermit 180]

Must be a British problem, they all sound good here! :eek: In fact, I'd even dare to go so far as to say they sound more professional on the radio than your average Kiwi male pilot. Eh, mate!

Kermie :p

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Attitude vs. Ego:

Is exactly what is most important when judjing any pilot.

When I first started flying in 1953 three of my instructors were female, Molly was without doubt the best instructor I have ever met. Not only was she a born natural with stick and rudder she was professional to a fault.

When learning from her I was so wrapped up in trying to learn it never occured to me to get in her pants.

The sad part of her career was she ended up marring a so called big shot in the local aviation fraternity, he was also a big shot pilot. Truth was he was nothing bit a farce and incompetant to boot, Molly stayed with aviation all her life and no one ever thought to question her being a "woman" pilot to do so would attract attention to yourself and you might have to show some proof that you could fly half as good as her.

So that is my thoughts on female pilots.

.............................................

:D The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :D

[Whirlybird]

Ah Kermit, you see it's only in Britain that we judge people by the way they speak. There's some quote I can't quite remember - George Bernard Shaw I think - that says something like that whenever any Englishman opens his mouth he makes another Englishman despise him. So the original thread probably has very little to do with either aviation or women, but a lot to do with being British.

The other comments concerning whether women are or aren't good pilots; do they really need saying? Women have been flying for over 90 years (first one got her PPL in 1910). It's hardly a novelty, or even worth discussing. As I've said before on these forums, I thought one needed hands, feet, eyes, brain, and co-ordination to fly, not any particular set of bumps or appendages. And if anyone's tired of my saying that, well I'm equally tired of hearing that women can fly as well as men, the statements made as though it was some new and utterly earth-shattering discovery.

[Final 3 Greens]

QNH1013

Why should we need to suspend disbelief?

To avoid plunging into the depths of social psychology and anthropology, let's say that society tends to conditions males and females into different roles and tends to set different role models for each gender.

This tends to set (unconscious)value based expectations and these can create beliefs about roles. I remember a couple of years ago that one poster on PPrune gloated that he loved doing sim rides with female pilots in one of the four engined jet transports so that he could watch them struggling with the (physical) demands of systems failures ... as this supported his view that the only place for them on an aeroplance was in the galley.

Flying is not the only place where symptoms of this can be seen, try senior management in most industries, for example.

Fortunately, there are many others who do not take this view, but my comment about suspending disbelief was just to point out that we should constantly challenge the assumptions that we make and look at the governing variables that we use to make sense of the world around us.

For example, it is a common view that females have poor spatial awareness: none of the ones that I fly with have, so let's suspend any disbelief founded on prior conditioning or experiene and deal with the individual in front of us.

As I said in my original posting, the female pilots I have flown with have taught me much of value, which was gained by keeping an open mind.

Sorry for the long winded explanation (not sure if you were winding me up), but this is an area where I have firm views.

Whirly has also made the point very well - female pilots have nothing to prove to the rest of us.

:)

[tiger burn]

Jean Batten, Beryl Markham, Amelia Earhardt, Amy Johnson......just a few innovators of the past century! I must admit I actually prefer flying in NZ & have found the vintage scene particularly welcoming & Kermie, you certainly do have a point. No offence to any blokes reading this but only in the UK have I been asked by the male members of our species, " So is it the 'planes or the pilots that you're really interested in then?" Enuff said!!

As for accents......I think someone has said the same about lady showjumpers in the past....bottom line....who really cares anyway? We get out there, do the job safely, share a passion....can't see why what we sound like should come into it!

Chocs away chaps! :p

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: tiger burn ]

[WelshCityFlyer]

Whirlybird & Tiger Burn:-

Couldn't agree more!! Well said. <Plus my spatial awareness is one of my better talents> - aircraft or otherwise, (parking the car, for instance)

[QNH 1013]

Final 3 Greens, Please be assured that I am not trying to wind you up and I'm not sure why you would think that. I wonder if you have misread / misremembered what I wrote as you appear to have misquoted me and then tried to answer the misquote.
Perhaps the medium is to blame, but for the avoidance of doubt let me requote myself:
"My view is that a pilot is a pilot. There are poor pilots, competent pilots and outstanding pilots, whether they are male or female doesn't matter as far as I can see."
In a later post you seemed to agree with me but your tone seemed (to me) rather patronising because you said "...than us guys and we can learn much if we suspend our disbelief...". Please accept my apologies if I have got this wrong, again it may be this medium leading to misunderstanding.
That is why I posted "Why should we have any disbelief (in the first place) that needs suspending"
As I said before, in my view a pilot is a pilot, whether they are male or female doesn't matter as far as I can see.
I'm certainly not trying to wind anyone up, and as far as I can see you agree with what I said.

[javelin]

Is a plum purple ?

[Final 3 Greens]

QNH1013

I think we are in violent agreement! That's why I wondered if you were winding me up - as you say, the medium can distort the message - bit of a misunderstanding as you say.

My point was that it is a human tendency to categorise groups of objects (e.g. male/female) and to give them attributes that differentiate them (e.g. women have poor spatial awareness etc) - this is what causes the disbelief in the first place when these "truths" filter people's perception of the world through their own beliefs and experiences.

No intention to be patronising, sorry if it read that way.

:)

[ 22 November 2001: Message edited by: Final 3 Greens ]