View Full Version : RACISM Virgin Style

8th Apr 2001, 00:05
It is amazing to think that in this age where it seems to be so fashionable to be Irish or part thereof that you can still find occasions where the old addage still applies: NO DOGS NOR IRISH NEED APPLY!

A couple of years ago I left a small airline that I worked for on the offer of a position in VEI. I was told that there were great plans, a progression policy to Atlantic was one of these. I joined with great expectations, one of which is the goal of most pilots,to join a stable company with a future, A place where you can stay awhile. This company,backed by the Virgin brand seemed to offer all that.

Oh What Disillusionment. Two years later,No Job, No progression.

It annoys me to think that I was so foolhardy to be lulled into a sense of possible security by a brand name.

Back to the main reason for this posting.
It is amazing that most of the UK pilots who were employed be VEI (Virgin express Ireland) have been offered places by Virgin express (VEX) and no Irish line pilots have been offered same. To this end even some of our anthipadean colleagues have been offered as well. More power to them,Good guys all.
But I think it says it all, the UK guys get Two months more pay, offered redeployment and Paddy gets what? Not even a redundancy package.

To you all I say,I enjoyed the people and the flying.

Never again will I beleive in a PR image I hope.

As far as I'am concerned,Virgin means sweatshop tactics and Racism

8th Apr 2001, 00:45
Racism? The Irish? I thought they were the same race as the Brits...

Wing Commander Fowler
8th Apr 2001, 02:58
IN the same race - just keep coming last.....

I'm finger lickin'

Rogaine addict
8th Apr 2001, 10:07
I hate the Irish too. Not the ones from Ireland, but the ones from Notre Dame. I don't think that racism is the appropriate word for your predicament. Geographic discrimination, perhaps(Don't know if that's legal or not in the U.K.), but not racism. A few on this forum are getting a little careless with the use of the R word. Sorry for your misfortune though.

PPRuNe Towers
8th Apr 2001, 16:25
There is a distinct hiccup in the VS recruiting process at the moment. Pilots, not just Irish one's, are being held at arms length. HR types claim this is while the company grapples with the logistics of absorbing up to 60 Virgin Sun aviators back into the mainline operations.

Regards from the Towers
[email protected]

8th Apr 2001, 16:40
There is no plan to absorb the VEI Irish pilots into VS or VEX to my knoledge. I think we are the ones that everyone just hopes will go away. Thank you Danny for you interest.

Paddy went to Brussels
8th Apr 2001, 19:09
First things first I no problems with any of my colleagues from the UK or OZ or NZ.
I do have a problem with a VEX Captain based in the UK boasting about the fact that the IRISH will not get jobs in VEX.The VEX FOM was at a meeting in LGW where the UK guys had the opportunity to go to VEX the Irish were not given the same opportunity.
What does that stink of,I don`t think I have to spell it out.

Billy the Kid
8th Apr 2001, 20:21
I think you'll find that what actually happened was that, MH & DC thought they'd do a bit of a carve up. With the proposed new company in SNN they said they would only have SNN as the pilots only base and would absorb the cost Hotac etc if the new routes meant flying elswhere.
Therefore VEX was trying to make sure that it could find people to work LHR, because the Belgians won't do these short high intensity sectors (long duty times for next to no block time). Easy, illegaly offer the London based pilots jobs, hope the new airline in SNN gets going sooner rather than later.
Unfortuantely, as we all know the new company was all a myth with MH stringing us all along, of course he had to or all the staff would have left for Dublin, contract work,or the UK. (It is possible that this is why the investors ultimately pulled out).
Personally after three and a half years with Virgin Express I look back with fondness, memories of good laughs with the best people Irish, Belgian and all the rest of the different nationalites on the flight deck and in the cabin. I explored a lot of europe that I wouldn't have done with a UK airline and benifited by learning the ropes from the old-timers. I owe a lot to FK who looked after me in '98, and will miss you all.

I think the person who started the thread should read his post again. We are all in this together, it would be a shame to let this company end with bitterness amongst the ex-employee's.
I feel espcially sorry for the guys on Irish contracts working in BRU who kept things going till the very end, only to be paid up to Midnight on the 2/4/01. I've given Richards number to one of the skippers in BRU, hopefully he can make contact and sort out some sort of loyalty compensation. Cause I'm pretty sure Richard doesn't have a clue what damage to peoples lifes the clowns in Virgin Express Holdings are causing...

Good luck to everyone

8th Apr 2001, 22:16
As the person who started this post Billy I would like to say that I enjoyed all my work colleagues,Irish ,English and all others.
I just stated the facts as I saw them.
Anyway, it seems to me that no matter what MH or any others were planning we (the Irish Pilots) were still not given the choice nor opportunity that was afforded to our workmates. That being redeployment.

It must also be pointed out that as most of us will have to move to the UK for work now that the geographic excuse becomes defunct.

Billy the Kid
8th Apr 2001, 22:57

If you really have a burning desire why don't you give Allan Blake, the DFO a call, I hear they are desperatly short of guys at LHR.
I'm sure this is not a conspiracy anymore, because of the failure to sell the Irish company.

happy hunting
The Kid

8th Apr 2001, 23:04
Its very disappointing to see another Irish carrier fail, for me the writing was on the wall once the BCA vetoed Irish crews operating SN codeshare flights and it became inevitable once the charter flying stopped.

The crews have been treated poorly by the inhabitants of Virgin House, and are suffering through lack of currency on sim assessments with other carriers. Hindsight is of no value but membership of IALPA might have been of significant help in this area.

Branson has no love for pilots and the facts are obvious that a UK licence would be a prerequisite to work for Atlantic or be based in the UK for VEX. The logistics of trying to keep an Irish licence current so that a Belgian validation stays valid while based in the UK would be too much trouble when there is already a UK training section in existance.

More to the point the disharmony created by the man from the desert when he arrived was unbelievable. He virtually tried to have the UK training section closed down so there is no love lost or favours to be granted in the eyes of those based in the UK.

I feel all blame for the situation the Irish licence holders find themselves can be laid at the feet of those who strung them along and misled them for months.

9th Apr 2001, 01:58
Maxfli,thanks for your interpretation, always interesting.I would just like to say that some of the Irish guys do already have UK licences. There should also be no reason why a Belgian validation could not be issued on an Irish licence. I really dont see why you would need a UK licence. To me this is really all superflous, I think that the real issue is the way the crews have been treated.
I still ask the question, why were the Irish crews not approached the way the UK crews were?? As Billy has pointed out,VEX have a requirment.

9th Apr 2001, 03:43
I still think a lot of it is down to logistics. To maintain a BE validation of an Irish licence would necessitate an IAA medical sim & line check, which would not be easy being based in the UK, though not impossible. There is another possibility in that the UK guys who were originally hired by FK through ACL but went on the Irish register were always based in the UK on paper, and were leased back to VEI, up to the absorbsion of ACL by VEI on 1/6/99.

I also alluded to the fact that there was no love lost between the UK set up and DC and that maybe they were only looking after their own and certainly not going out of their way help clear up what is seen as someone else's mess.

A copilot swop between VA and VEX was tentatively set up in 1998 where VA copilots would go to VEX for some command experience and experienced VEX copilots would get an opportunity to get their hands on some heavy metal. 2 came from VA for commands and none went the other way, why ? And if not then why not now ?