CPL in different JAA state to exams

[neilr]

Hi all

I have UK JAA PPL, completed the ATPL exams in IRELAND and have subsequently added FI and MEIR ratings to it. The training and flight tests were carried out in Ireland but added to my UK JAA PPL

I have also a Class 1 medical that was carried out by the CAA in Gatwick

So far so good .....

But now I want to complete the CPL - but I want to complete the training and flight test in Ireland (where I currently reside due to work) BUT I still want the CAA to issue the CPL - so my question is - will this work ????

Not obvious from lasors - it does state that ratings can be done in other states but not clear on CPL license issue

Thanks Neil

[MagicTiger]

You want to do your CPL under Irish authority!

You want UK CAA to issue your license!

Doubt that is possible. You will have to have Ireland issue your license, and then request transfer of license.
Also you will need to transfer your medical to Ireland, to get your Irish CPL issued, and then transfer everything back to the UK afterwards when all is issued by the Irish.

Just paperwork and some small fees.

[neilr]

Joint Aviation Authority - what a joke !!

Exams are not transferable, medicals are not transferable, training in many cases is not transferable !!

I am currently living in Ireland but dont want to go to the expense and hassle of another initial class 1 medical here in Ireland, especially as I am not as young as I once was !! and its considerably more expensive then the UK for medicals

I wanted to do the CPL in Ireland because of convienence but get the UK to issue it as they have done with my ratings - but sounds like this might not be possible - so looks like its UK or US for CPL - but will confirm with CAA

Thanks Neil

[BillieBob]

Since you already hold a JAA PPL issued by the UK CAA, the UK is established as your State of Licence Issue in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.065. This means that any further licence training must be conducted under the approval of UK CAA. JAR.FCL 1.065(b) allows two Authorities to enter into an agreement regarding training started in one state but completed in another. The IAA and the UK CAA have entered into such a bi-lateral agreement, the terms of which require that the authority under whose approval the flight training is completed will issue the licence.

There is another problem - you cannot hold, at the same time, licences issued by more than one JAA member state (i.e. have more than one state of licence issue). In order to complete training and testing for the CPL under the IAA you would not only have to obtain an IAA medical but also transfer your state of licence issue from the UK to the ROI in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.065(d). Having transferred your state of licence issue to the ROI, you could not then transfer it back to the UK without meeting the 'normal residency' requirements of JAR-FCL 1.070.

From the IAA website:

"The IAA has a bi-lateral agreement with the UK CAA. The IAA will accept a valid pass in the CPL or ATPL examinations achieved under the responsibility of the UK CAA for the grant of a CPL, subject to the modular CPL course, CPL skill test, and initial Class 1 medical examination being completed under the responsibility of the IAA."

[lasseb]

I don't get it ???
If you have an Irish ATPL theory exam, then the Irish CAA must be the one who issues the CPL. UK CAA cannot issue any licences based on a theory exam in another JAA state..

It does not matter what JAR-state your PPL is from since you are getting a new licence.

[neilr]

Lasseb thats incorrect !!
ATPL exams are accepted between UK and Ireland

Thanks Billiebob for the comprehensive answer ... looks like I will have to complete CPL in UK - not a big deal - just inconvienent !!

[BigGrecian]

JAR ceased to exist June 30th 2009.

Most authorities still continue to operate under the framework however.

Honestly though I don't want my licence associated with some of the other JAA states considering their standards....

[lasseb]

Maybe I misunderstood you???
I thought you wanted to do the CPL in Ireland and not England.???
So I don't see the problem. You have an Irish ATPL theory, so you can take the CPL in Ireland and get an Irish license. You don't have to talk to the UK CAA at all.

[BillieBob]

lasseb -It is JAR-FCL that you have misunderstood.

The OP holds a JAA PPL issued by the UK CAA, which is, therefore, his State of Licence Issue (see JAR-FCL 1.065). As long as this is the case, his licence is administered by the UK CAA and he cannot obtain another licence from a different JAA state (see JAR-FCL 1.065(e)). In order to obtain a CPL from the Irish Aviation Authority he would have to transfer his State of Licence Issue (see JAR-FCL 1.065(d)) to the Republic of Ireland, which he does not wish to do.

The UK CAA and the IAA have entered into an bi-lateral agreement (see JAR-FCL 1.065(b)) that allows for the theoretical knowledge examinations taken in one state to be valid for issue of the licence in the other. In accordance with this agreement, the flight training must take place in the State of Licence Issue. Therefore, if the OP does not wish to change his State of Licence Issue, he must complete the flight training in the UK and the UK will issue his CPL on the basis of the TK exams he has already completed in Ireland.

[lasseb]

BilliBob -> No that was not what I had misunderstood.

Strictly JAR speaking, you do not need a "domestic" PPL to start CPL training in a JAR country. You just need a JAA PPL for that, and it can be issued by any JAR member state.
I know that for a fact because I have done exactly that - just not with IAA/UK CAA but with DK/SE CAA.

IAA can have special rules here though, but it does work in other places.

But you do need an Irish medical (witch he has not) & Irish theory (which he has).

It should be possible to transfer the medical from one member state to another. It is not a case of having to take the entire medical exam again, it is "just" paperwork. (and possible fee's)

It is correct that you cannot have a license from 2 JAR states at the same time. But then again - you cannot have to licenses at all. You either have a PPL, a CPL or an ATPL..
The minute you get your CPL from IAA you have to discard the UK CAA PPL.
Again - I have done exactly what neilr tries to so it can be done.
But I'm not sure if there are any special UK/IAA rules here..

What I had misunderstood though was that neilr does not wan a CPL issued by IAA.. And in that case you cannot do the CPL with an irish FTO
You definitely need to do your CPL on an FTO belonging to the CAA that you want the license issued from..