When the NPPL?

[flying snapper]

I have just failed my Class 2 medical on my eyesight (outwith the refractive error limits). Does anyone have any up to date information on when the NPPL will be introduced? I believe the medical requirements are at Advanced driver level so I should pass that OK. I am just about at the stage of doing my first solo so I don't want to give up flying as I have invested time, effort, and money in this. Anyone have any information??

[Crowe]

one alternative is to get an FAA medical (no limit on uncorrected vision) and fly N-reg planes in the UK. You could also get a cheap(ish) instrument rating that way.

[The Flying I]

Why not go the whole hog and get a medical and a 'certificate' (license)? (then you could fly any G reg over here)

[BEagle]

We are currently expecting the NPPL to be approved by 1 Jan 02. For Day VFR on light SEP aeroplanes only at first.

[GAF4139]

I am currently training for my PPl in Cessna 152. From what I have read so far I understand that I could train for an NPPL using the same aircraft. What I don't understand is that I can learn flying in the same aircraft but depending on the licence type it can take 10-15 hours less. Considered that with a PPL one only learns the necessary basics to fly safely under VFR does this mean NPPL pilots will be send out on their own with substantial knowledge gaps and less well trained or have I missed something?


GAF4139

[Squawk 8888]

GAF, that NPPL is similar to our Recreational Pilot Permit. The original idea was to use it for local flying only, in light A/C with only one passenger. As such, it's fairly safe but only if the pilot stays close to base since there's no solo cross-country and no instrument time. My biggest gripe is that they removed the requirement that the pilot stay within 25 miles of the departure airport, so one could conceivably get in a heap of trouble fairly quickly. The best advice heard 'round here is only do it for medical reasons and take the full PPL sylabus regardless.

[BEagle]

The '25 mile' limit was removed because we agreed that it was unenforceable and would lead to concentration of aircraft in certain areas of the country leading to noise complaints and collision risk. Hence we split the final skill test into 2 - a general handling section and a navigation flight test. So, as currently proposed, the NPPL course is not that different from the pre-JAR/FCL PPL course. The only real extra in the JAR/FCL PPL is training in the use of radio navigation aids.

Examiners will not be accepting lower standards from NPPL applicants than they would from JAR/FCL applicants; if they're good enough, they'll pass. If not, they won't. It's up to the FIs and the training providers to make sure that their applicants are adequately prepared if they decide to put them in for their tests having flown just the minimum number of hours.........

[You want it when?]

C'mon people. I'm grinding through a PPL at the moment and with the WX closing it's going to be next Spring before I pass. The NPPL might omit some of the cross country stuff - but again the hours are a minimum that you need. Most PPLs are passed at 55 / 70 hours rather than 45 hours - what do you think the NPPL pass time will be 45 / 50 hours?

Irrespective the differences (as I've said in another thread) will wash out at 70 to 80- hours. We will all be unsafe!

Watch out Beags for a slow C152 in front of you at Brize next time!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

BEagle - you've come around to supporting the NPPL then?

Whats missing exactly compared to the JAA PPL?

Cheers,

WWW

[BEagle]

Well, my friendly Cymraig mate, it wasn't quite as straightforward as that!
Initially I raised a bit of a furore at the NPPL proposals; however, a chum and myself from a highly regarded national organisation (and I don't mean HM'sFC!!) were asked to advise on the NPPL proposals. We have worked with the sponsors to modify the NPPL proposals into something acceptable to all UK GA organisations - in a spirit of robust debate and enthusiastic application. Hence we, the National PPL Steering Committee, were able to present the very helpful and understanding mate from the CAA with agreed industry proposals for the NPPL and we are hopeful of an acceptable result to the Letter of Consultation which will mean affordable and accessible private Day VFR flying will become available to many in the New Year.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Good lord BEagle - you don't half get involved, talk about TAP.

Good stuff though. I am glad to assume that some robust common sense has been injected into the NPPL idea. I look forward to seeing the finished article. Anything to help the somewhat moribund UK GA sector is more than welcome.

Cheers,

WWW

[GAF4139]

Sorry, but reading the above to me NPPL seems to be like a driving licence where you are not allowed to use motorways and you have to stick to a speedlimit of 40 miles.


GAF4139

[Norfolk & Good]

One of the reasons the 25 mile rule was scrapped was because it could not be enforced. How is the "Insight of Ground and Clear of Cloud" rule enforced, or the X wind limits or the weight and balance etc. Basically if you bend it, the insurance will not pay and if you are still alive, the CAA will prosecute. So can't that rule still apply, say to 50 miles.
The NPPL should be a step into flying, with a carrot to entice further training, so if it restricted (and lets face it, the restrictions at the moment are nothing to talk of), the NPPL pilot will have an incentive to train further. :mad:

[flying snapper]

All fine and well if you want to progress to ATPL or CPL, but if you fail your class 2 medical as I did and the only licence you can get is a NPPL then the restrictions be it 25 miles or 50 miles would be a pain in the neck!!
Some of us are interested in private flying for fun not a stepping stone to professional pilot status. :mad:

[JB007]

Anyone know of any other "loop holes" in the medical system towards gaining a NPPL?

Basically I have a mate who holds an ATPL and fly's for a carrier at LGW. He has unfortunatly, about 6 months ago, been diagnosed as a diabetic and lost his medical.

He believes he will be able to hold an NPPL medical certificate and still fly his own C152, within the restrictions of an NPPL of course.

What'd ya think ?

[Tocsin]

JB007,

BEagle will have all the info, but if I remember correctly the medical _proposals_ are:
(a) normal driving licence = solo flying (no passengers) or
(b) Class 2 driving licence equivalent medical = flying with up to 3 passengers.

So if your friend has kept his driving licence, some flying should be possible - if the proposals are carried through into legislation.

(Flying snapper - hear! hear! on the flying for fun. Not all of us want to give up good jobs for the airline treadmill, we just want to fly - safely. NPPL + IMC gets my vote)

[BEagle]

JB007 - sorry to hear about your friend's medical problem.

The intention is for NPPL medical requirements to be 'similar' to DVLC ones; I am not really qualified to discuss medical matters, but as I understand it your friend should be able to fly a C152 on the privileges of an NPPL; his medical condition would dictate whether he could also take a passenger.

The IMC Rating question is not as clear. Again, as I understand it, you would need at least a JAR Class 2 medical to put an IMC Rating on an NPPL - if indeed the addition of such a rating is permitted at all.

[JB007]

Thanks guys...i'll let him know!

[Tocsin]

BEagle,

"The IMC Rating question is not as clear. Again, as I understand it, you would need at least a JAR Class 2 medical to put an IMC Rating on an NPPL - if indeed the addition of such a rating is permitted at all. "

I didn't look at the IMC issue, but thought that the proposed NPPL IMC was based on the _DVLC_ class 2 medical? (Pity that both bureaucracies use numbered classes!)

As a lapsed glider pilot (not enough time...) I intend to do the NPPL for fun flying, and consider the IMC pretty essential for flying safely in the UK. I'll have to follow this up.

BTW, thanks for the work you're putting in on this!

[BEagle]

There has been some misunderstanding about the IMC Rating requirements - especially the medical requirements. As I understand it, even if the industry were to support the IMC Rating proposal, the CAA Medical Branch would not support the idea of any reduced medical standards below JAA Class 2 for IMC Rating holders. It is also reasonably certain that the total post-licence issue SEP flying experience for starting IMC Rating training would be no less than it is at present.

[BeauMan]

BEagle, I'm new to this forum, so haven't really had much of a trawl through previous postings. Just wondering if you know of a website where the current PPL / prospective NPPL requirements are / will be posted?

Reason I'm asking is that I'm a time expired FAA PPL (last P1 in 1994), looking to get re-qualified, and I'm trying to get an idea of what I need to do.

I suspect I'll need the full course, due to time since last P1, but any help in terms of where to look would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[BEagle]

Hmmm - bit of a tricky one there, BeauMan (are you restoring the Duxford Beau'?). Perhaps it might be easiest to renew your FAA PPL rather than start up a JAR/FCL PPL? Your best bet is to look through the www.srg.caa.co.uk (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk) website under 'Flight Crew Licensing' and see whether there's anything which covers your case. The NPPL is still some time off; I have a horrid feeling that the CAA would expect you to complete, as a minimum, all the JAR/FCL PPL exams as well as 'sufficient flying at CFI's discretion' before doing the JAR/FCL PPL Skill Test were you to go straight for a JAR/FCL PPL. I'm not sure where you would get a FAA medical - or whether any JAA one would count for a CAA PPL...............

[BeauMan]

Thanks BEagle, I'll start by taking a look at that website. I'm not in any particular hurry to get it all done, and realistically I'm looking to do it next year. Just figured it's best to get as much groundwork done on it during the winter as possible.

From previous experience I've found it's a nightmare trying to find FAA licenced medical and flight examiners here in the UK (something to think about for those who are planning to take the cheaper option when getting a PPL!). In fact, that's the main reason why my licence lapsed; couldn't find anyone to re-validate it...

As for the Beau reference, I'm a volunteer on Skysport's Mk1F X7688 (G-DINT). She's a very long way from flying though, Duxford's A19-144 will be airworthy some years before ours...

[stiknruda]

Beagle - met a bloke last night in a pub who is on the same NPPL committee as you. HE is v impressed with your input - well done and keep it up. I understand from him that things are looking good for phase one to be ready in Jan 02!

Stik

[BEagle]

Thanks stik; the progress of the NPPL for SEP is looking good for the date you mention, unless susbtantial opposition has been recieved to the CAA's Letter of Consultation.

[slipnslide]

BEagle,

Is there any more news yet on the NPPL FI ratings proposals (ie being able to get an FI and earn dosh for giving NPPL instruction without a CPL)?

thanks,

Sn'S

[BEagle]

S 'n S - that proposal is falling very definitely on stony ground. There is no way that it will happen in the short term, from what I understand; however, it might perhaps happen in the future. Even if it does happen, there would be little difference between the training required and that currently required for a FI(A) under JAR/FCL.

[dah dah]

Slip n Slide

I am trying to set up a group to lobby for NPPL FI sooner rather than later. If you are interested and if have not already done so, please e-mail me at [email protected].